Justice League - July 5, 2003

[Tempuswolf]

Yea, more JL.

On Saturday, July 5th at 8:00 pm ET, C(artoon)N(etwork) will show two one-hour Superman: The Animated Series episodes, "Apokolips Now!" and "Legacy," followed by the world-premiere of "Twilight of the Gods," a new, one hour Justice League episode.-Industry 411 Archive- May 2003 (http://animationhq.net/v2/news/411-archives/411-may03.htm)


Boo, more waiting.

Justice League returns with more all-new episodes in October.
-Comics Continuum (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0306/12/index.htm)

[Redmenace]

Thank you soooo much for the heads up. Sorry to hear about the further wait till October but any JL is very welcome. Can I infer Darkseid is involved in Twilight of the gods?

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Redmenace
Thank you soooo much for the heads up. Sorry to hear about the further wait till October but any JL is very welcome. Can I infer Darkseid is involved in Twilight of the gods?

Yes and I've seen elsewhere that Bruce Timm who produced both shows hints that "Superman's brooding doubts" that served as a catalyst for the formation of JL comes to head as he returns full circle to confront Darkseid. It should be quite an evening for Supe and Darkseid fans alike.

[GestaltBennie]

"Legacy" and "Apokcolips Now" are two of the best Superman stories ever and worth seeing on their own. Word from Hong Kong (where JL Season 2 is currently airing) has been very favorable to "Twilight", so I'm looking forward to it.

Scott Bennie

[Redmenace]

I love Darkseid, unconditionally, and Superman but a confrontation involving Darkseid's behind the scenes intrigue matched against Batman's detective skills has me chomping at the bit.

What's the story with Apocalypse and New genesis, do they exist in the DC Universe or in some tangential space all their own? I wonder if the Green Lantern Corp is aware of Darkseid. You'd think they'd must be.

[BlackSword]

In the comics Martian Manhunter and Darkseid had a history as well. I doubt they will bring that into the cartoon as Darkseid is more of a Superman adversary.

The entire fight between Superman and Darkseid in Legacy was great. Apokalypse Now was also one of my favorite Superman episodes, especially Dan Turpin throwing a rock at Darkseid.

Definitaly looking forward to a new Justice League cartoon. Too bad the wait for anymore episodes will be until October.

[Darth Sarcastic]

I'm waiting for an episode with Captain Marvel. The creators of the JL keep promissing. I think I'm in for a really long wait.

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Darth Sarcastic
I'm waiting for an episode with Captain Marvel. The creators of the JL keep promissing. I think I'm in for a really long wait.

Here's a list of second season episodes from Pazsaz Entertainment Network (http://www.pazsaz.com/jla.html) :

Twilight Of The Gods, Part 1 (Originally Aired 7/5/2003)
Twilight Of The Gods, Part 2 (Originally Aired 7/12/2003)
Only A Dream, Part 1
Only A Dream, Part 2
Tabula Rasa, Part 1
Tabula Rasa, Part 2
Maid Of Honor, Part 1
Maid Of Honor, Part 2
Hearts And Minds, Part 1
Hearts And Minds, Part 2
A Better World, Part 1
A Better World, Part 2
The Terror Beyond, Part 1
The Terror Beyond, Part 2
Eclipsed, Part 1
Eclipsed, Part 2
Hereafter, Part 1
Hereafter, Part 2
The Secret Society, Part 1
The Secret Society, Part 2
Comfort And Joy
Wild Card, Part 1
Wild Card, Part 2

Not being the Big Red Cheese's No. 1 fan, I can't tell if any of these will feature him just from the title alone.

[GestaltBennie]

I hadn't heard of the Big Red Cheese scheduled for any eps this season.

From what I've heard, "Tabula Rasa" is an Amazo episode, "Only A Dream" is a Dr. Destiny episode. And it's probably safe to bet that "Eclipsed" is their Eclipso episode.

Scott Bennie

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Redmenace
What's the story with Apocalypse and New genesis, do they exist in the DC Universe or in some tangential space all their own? I wonder if the Green Lantern Corp is aware of Darkseid. You'd think they'd must be.

I am far from being a DC continuity nut, but as far as I know Apocalypse and New Genesis are in fact part of the DC universe. Darkseid and the GL corp were known to each other, but he is the legitimate ruler of his world and knew about their yellow vulnerability.

I think there is an out of continuity story where they tried to unseat him, but he had his minions painted yellow and had their weapons adjusted to fire yellow beams. It was not pretty.

[JmOz]

Appolilips and New Genesis, are part of the "Forth world" a alternate dimmension type of thing. However both worlds have access to Boom Tubes a device that lets them travel to earth...

[Hermit]

Argh, the waiting. They've put things off so long I don't even watch the reruns anymore.

I'll give it another chance, but these 4 plus month pauses drive me nuts.

[dbcowboy]

I read an interview with one of the writers and it either said or strongly implied that the new season was starting in July. Made this announcment that it'll only be a 1 hr special very, very disappointing. They mentioned that it's been something like a year and a half since the old episodes and talked about how much better the stories would be because of the extra time spent on them. Frankly I felt the first season was excellent. I thought they also mentioned that they would have fewer guest heroes this season since the JLA has enough members with plenty of story opportunity.

But, I see that the Teen Titans will start next month on Cartoon Network. Not sure how good that show will be based on the little clips and commercials they've shown.

[John Desmarais]

Originally posted by GestaltBennie
I hadn't heard of the Big Red Cheese scheduled for any eps this season.

From what I've heard, "Tabula Rasa" is an Amazo episode, "Only A Dream" is a Dr. Destiny episode. And it's probably safe to bet that "Eclipsed" is their Eclipso episode.

Scott Bennie

A few more guesses (based on other info I've heard about the upcoming season).

Comfort and Joy - Christmas special
Wild Card - Joker and Harley
Hearts and Minds - Despero?


John D.

[dei1c3]

Originally posted by dbcowboy
But, I see that the Teen Titans will start next month on Cartoon Network. Not sure how good that show will be based on the little clips and commercials they've shown. Teen Titans, while also a Bruce Timm show, is marketed at (and thus written for) younger audiences. As such, I plan to watch it but my expectations are tempered. At the very least, it'll give me that "superhero cartoon" fix I seem to so desperately need until October when JL season 2 starts. :D

Chris

[Tempuswolf]

Week ender bump.

[Tempuswolf]

Five days left bump.

[Morningstar]

That is greaat news about JL.

Now what about X-Men Evolution? Has anyone heard anything?

[BarryB]

Originally posted by Morningstar
Now what about X-Men Evolution? Has anyone heard anything?

Huh. I'd assumed it was one of those shows that went for a season or two and went away. Aren't the episodes like 2 years old now? I have no knowledge that it's being made or not being made.

[BarryB]

I'm recording the episodes. My 5-year-old daughter is so into the Justice League. It's great. She plays Wonder Woman frequently.

I just wish there was JL t-shirts or hats with *female* members on them. I only find kids ones with the male members of the League. :( I guess they assume only boys like superheroes.

[Morningstar]

.[I]Huh. I'd assumed it was one of those shows that went for a season or two and went away. Aren't the episodes like 2 years old now? I have no knowledge that it's being made or not being made]

Apparently there were 4 episodes remaining in the current season and they were going to be shown about the time the X2 movie came out. They also were supposed to be renewed for another season. The last 4 have never shown up. The WB web site sucks and ther is no info there.

Does anyone know more?

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Morningstar
Now what about X-Men Evolution? Has anyone heard anything?

Season IV (9 episodes) plus 4 episodes of Season III this fall on Kid's WB.

[JmOz]

Barry, I know they make some (Shirts with Wonder Woman on them, however I think they have the more comic book look to them that the cartoon

[BarryB]

Originally posted by JmOz
Barry, I know they make some (Shirts with Wonder Woman on them, however I think they have the more comic book look to them that the cartoon

My daughter wouldn't mind. I'm going to google and see if I can find a source. If you run across the one you're thinking of, I'd appreciate you letting me know.

[Brandi]

Did they bring back Underoos or am I just confused here?

[Kevin Scrivner]

I don't have cable and don't get Cartoon Network, so I have to depend on video releases to see "Justice League." Recently got the video "Justice On Trial." Re the Aquaman episodes, when did they transplant Namor the Sub-Mariner's brain into Aquaman's body? Enjoyed it but the whole story line was sooo Marvel Comics.

I also liked the "In Blackest Night" plot. The writers finally got over their Batman fixation and let another team member shine. John Stewart makes a noble Green Lantern even if he is a stuffed shirt. By the way, Hawkgirl refused to answer Flash when he asked whether there was a "Hawkboy." Has the series established whether Hawkman exists in this continuity?

I haven't specifically been looking for Wonder Woman or Hawkgirl pajamas for my preschoolers but I know that Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man versions exist. Toy R Us and Target would be good places to start looking. My son already has Hulk pajamas -- we just tell him to put on his jean cutoff shorts and he's good to go. :)

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
I don't have cable and don't get Cartoon Network, so I have to depend on video releases to see "Justice League." Recently got the video "Justice On Trial." Re the Aquaman episodes, when did they transplant Namor the Sub-Mariner's brain into Aquaman's body? Enjoyed it but the whole story line was sooo Marvel Comics.

The books, I believe, had turned up the regal crankiness meter on ol' Arthur before JL Animated did. He had an angry mini some years ago, then he was killed recently and that always makes some people meaner.

[Redmenace]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner

I also liked the "In Blackest Night" plot. The writers finally got over their Batman fixation and let another team member shine. John Stewart makes a noble Green Lantern even if he is a stuffed shirt. By the way, Hawkgirl refused to answer Flash when he asked whether there was a "Hawkboy." Has the series established whether Hawkman exists in this continuity?


I read a transcript from a Justice League panel discussion. In it the question about Hawkman was brought up and the panel, including Bruce Timm, expressed interest in doing something with him. It wasn't mentiones as anything pending but someday maybe.

[dbcowboy]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
I don't have cable and don't get Cartoon Network, so I have to depend on video releases to see "Justice League." Recently got the video "Justice On Trial." Re the Aquaman episodes, when did they transplant Namor the Sub-Mariner's brain into Aquaman's body? Enjoyed it but the whole story line was sooo Marvel Comics.

Never thought about the new version of Aquaman = Sub-Mariner but that actually is a good comparison. Regardless, I find him a much more compelling character this way. Like the harpoon for a hand look but think I saw recently that he was able to form a water hand in place of his missing one. You know, my wife and I both have really enjoyed the Justice League episodes, the Aquaman ones being one of our favorite stories. The point where he cuts his own arm off so he can save his son was incredible.

[MuscaDomestica]

Well just saw it... I was impressed, it had some strange moments and seemed to have way to many plot threads (was it originally going to be a three parter?) But the action was great and the characterizations were well done. Superman was great and using his powers impressively. Brainiac the most unfortunately named villain in comics was fun to see.


The Teen Titians commercials are strange... the anime style is unusual. I like anime but I know it is just a style that incorporates many genres and shouldn't consider it sacred... keep telling my self that.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by BarryB
My daughter wouldn't mind. I'm going to google and see if I can find a source. If you run across the one you're thinking of, I'd appreciate you letting me know.

There was something solicitated in last months PReviews called the

"Wonder Woman: Comic Wonder Junior T-Shirt" for 18.95

[Hermit]

Originally posted by MuscaDomestica
Well just saw it... I was impressed, it had some strange moments and seemed to have way to many plot threads (was it originally going to be a three parter?) But the action was great and the characterizations were well done. Superman was great and using his powers impressively. Brainiac the most unfortunately named villain in comics was fun to see.

If I smoked, I'd be lighting up a cigarette right now. Darn that was good. Either that, or I've been so starved for anything #$#$ing new on the show that my mind eagerly gobbled it up.

A few points.
1. Yes, you're right, Supes actually looks freaking formidable again. No more big S punching bag. Best line illustrating recognition of Supes power?
"Stop him, before he knocks us out of orbit!":)
2. We get to see just how nasty, devious, and powerful a bad guy Brainaic again, and get a lesson in Darkseid still outshines him in all three areas. :)
Bestline there: "I do that."
3. Fantastic character interaction, complete with future seeds of story laced for my favorite feathered lady Hawkgirl. The lady who voices for Wonder Woman started the series rather bland sounding, but she's improved a lot. And Batman shows what a wonderful counselor he makes... it's amazing he kept his face: "Cry me a river."
4. In addition to the muscle, we get to see a more three dimensional supes, best line there: "You know something, Bruce? You're not always right."

I give it an 8.5 out of 10

[Killer Shrike]

Im going 9.5 out of 10. We's very happy ;)

[McCoy]

I liked it. But Orion's justifying a premptive strike was just a little too close to Recent Events for comfort. "There can be no peace as long as Darkside is in power." Wanted to check if Bush was credited as one of the writers.

[Agent X]

AAAaaaargh! I missed it. When does it come on next?

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Agent X
AAAaaaargh! I missed it. When does it come on next?

I don't see it scheduled again in the next two weeks on TV Guide Online. That may mean October.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Tempuswolf
I don't see it scheduled again in the next two weeks on TV Guide Online. That may mean October. Double Drat! No, Triple Drat! Shut up, Muttley!

[Jhamin]

A friend pointed out that while Superman was much more formidable, he was also probably more vengeful than that character should be.

I know he has his reasons, but Supes is supposed to be bigger than that. "I'm not stopping till your a smear on my fist" is not what you would normally think of as something Superman would say.

Batman is supposed to be the dark one, and Superman holds his own by showing that honesty, compassion and earnestness get you just as far. I hope the new season won't lose sight of that.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Jhamin
A friend pointed out that while Superman was much more formidable, he was also probably more vengeful than that character should be.

I know he has his reasons, but Supes is supposed to be bigger than that. "I'm not stopping till your a smear on my fist" is not what you would normally think of as something Superman would say.

Batman is supposed to be the dark one, and Superman holds his own by showing that honesty, compassion and earnestness get you just as far. I hope the new season won't lose sight of that. Yeah, that's stronger language than when he put the beatdown on Mongul after much abuse in the DC Comics Presents with the Alien Starman back in the mid-1980s. At the time, I was stunned because Supes actually said he was mad!:) I know in the story it was supposed to be because of all the horrible things Mongul had done but it seemed a little more personal. Mongul had basically humiliated Supes and had even torn his cape off.

[dbcowboy]

Loved the scene where Darkseid stomps on Superman's face and says, "This is exactly where you belong: underneath my heel", just before Superman blows a hole through his foot with his heat-vision. Man, never seen Superman so willing to throw away his code vs. killing. I'd never seen the 3 part AoS episodes they showed before JL but taking all of that (plus the previous invasions of Earth by Darkseid) together, I can certainly see how he could come to HATE Darkseid so much.

When the most upstanding champion of restraint is pushed to his limit and has become convinced that this is the only way, how great must be the evil he faces?

Besides, in the comics Superman was judge, jury and executioner for Zod and crew in the alternate Earth and although they had killed all life on that planet and were totally evil he still had great remorse, so much so that he was developing MPD. Fact is, sometimes when our heroes fall/fail, they show us what it really means to be a hero when they rise up again.

[JMHammer]

...and that word is

TiVo

I've had my TiVo for over a year now and it's great for things like this. Besides "season passes" for all the shows I know I want, my TiVo also searches for shows with keywords like "action," "adventure," "superhero," and various well-known hero names. When I come back from a 3-day business trip my TiVo is stuffed with hours of great superhero cartoons while the filters keep Pokemon and Power Rangers and other such drivel off my device's hard drive.

If you have a life, but still want to watch TV, and do it on your schedule, get a TiVo.

I know this sounds like a commercial, but seriously, this thing will change the way you watch TV. You'll spend more of your TV time watching things you want to watch and less total time in front of the tube.

John H

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
By the way, Hawkgirl refused to answer Flash when he asked whether there was a "Hawkboy." Has the series established whether Hawkman exists in this continuity?

The newest episode revealed that she was blasted through a space warp by a criminal. She has no way home, has no idea where home is, and Thanagar is so far away that she says she had never heard of the Green Lantern Corp. If Hawkman does exist, the separation anxiety would certainly go a long way toward explaining her bad mood.
But if Hawkman does appear, you can bet it will be after her budding relationship with Jonn has developed further.

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Jhamin
Batman is supposed to be the dark one, and Superman holds his own by showing that honesty, compassion and earnestness get you just as far. I hope the new season won't lose sight of that.

And yet Batman had some great lines in the episode.
"The next time I let Superman take charge, hit me. Really hard."
and...and...
D@mn it. He had a great one-liner shortly after he and Wonder Woman arrived on New Genesis, but I can't remember it now. I should have taped the episode while I was watching it.
Someone help me out?

[Superskrull]

Originally posted by Jhamin
A friend pointed out that while Superman was much more formidable, he was also probably more vengeful than that character should be.

I know he has his reasons, but Supes is supposed to be bigger than that. "I'm not stopping till your a smear on my fist" is not what you would normally think of as something Superman would say.

Batman is supposed to be the dark one, and Superman holds his own by showing that honesty, compassion and earnestness get you just as far. I hope the new season won't lose sight of that.

TAS Superman has had it drummed into his head that Darkseid is honorless scum who stops at nothing to achieve his goals. Darkseid killed Superman's friend Inspector Dan Turpin in cold blood after being forced to leave Earth by Superman, the New Gods and a decent section of Metropolis' population. That kinda stuff really gets Superman's shorts in a twist.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by dbcowboy
Loved the scene where Darkseid stomps on Superman's face and says, "This is exactly where you belong: underneath my heel", just before Superman blows a hole through his foot with his heat-vision. Man, never seen Superman so willing to throw away his code vs. killing. I'd never seen the 3 part AoS episodes they showed before JL but taking all of that (plus the previous invasions of Earth by Darkseid) together, I can certainly see how he could come to HATE Darkseid so much.

When the most upstanding champion of restraint is pushed to his limit and has become convinced that this is the only way, how great must be the evil he faces?

Besides, in the comics Superman was judge, jury and executioner for Zod and crew in the alternate Earth and although they had killed all life on that planet and were totally evil he still had great remorse, so much so that he was developing MPD. Fact is, sometimes when our heroes fall/fail, they show us what it really means to be a hero when they rise up again. I'm pretty sure that Supes knew that would not only, not kill Darkseid, but that it wouldn't even serve as a permanent injury for some "thing" like Darkseid.

[dbcowboy]

Originally posted by Agent X
I'm pretty sure that Supes knew that would not only, not kill Darkseid, but that it wouldn't even serve as a permanent injury for some "thing" like Darkseid.

Maybe, unfortunately I didn't tape it. My impression at the time was that Superman went back for the sole purpose of ensuring Darkseid went down with the planet. It seemed he knew he would die as well and was perfectly okay with that as long as Darkseid was destroyed. Shoot, I should have taped it.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by dbcowboy
Maybe, unfortunately I didn't tape it. My impression at the time was that Superman went back for the sole purpose of ensuring Darkseid went down with the planet. It seemed he knew he would die as well and was perfectly okay with that as long as Darkseid was destroyed. Shoot, I should have taped it. Well that I don't know. I was just dealing with the isolated idea of Supes blasting Darkseid full blast with his heat vision.

[Hermit]

Originally posted by Armitage
And yet Batman had some great lines in the episode.
"The next time I let Superman take charge, hit me. Really hard."
and...and...
D@mn it. He had a great one-liner shortly after he and Wonder Woman arrived on New Genesis, but I can't remember it now. I should have taped the episode while I was watching it.
Someone help me out?

Would that be when he looked up at the floating city of the new gods, and said "I'm going to need a longer grapple."

:D

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hermit
Would that be when he looked up at the floating city of the new gods, and said "I'm going to need a longer grapple."

:D The funny bit about that was just before he said it, I thought "Should have bought Megascale for your Swinging", and then he said the above line, causing me to laugh and miss the next few seconds of dialogue :p

[Tempuswolf]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
The funny bit about that was just before he said it, I thought "Should have bought Megascale for your Swinging", and then he said the above line, causing me to laugh and miss the next few seconds of dialogue :p

lol

[Armitage]

Originally posted by Hermit
Would that be when he looked up at the floating city of the new gods, and said "I'm going to need a longer grapple."

:D

Yes. That was it.
It always seems like jokes are funnier when they come from normally grim characters. The contrast definitely adds something.

[Redmenace]

This is meant as an observatuion and not a criticism, but, Batman seemed to crack a lot of one liners. They were funny ones and certainly with Darkseid, Brainiac and down and dirty supes in the episode I can see wherethere needed to be some element of lightness but it seemed a bit out of character. Great episode though and man was it great to see some new JL.

[cjudisch]

Originally posted by Agent X
I'm pretty sure that Supes knew that would not only, not kill Darkseid, but that it wouldn't even serve as a permanent injury for some "thing" like Darkseid.

While I agree with you that, were the stakes high enough, Supes would kill Darkseid, I gotta disagree with you regarding the lack of remorse.

He'd tear himself up inside.

That's what makes him great. The fact that he'd feel guilty about not being able to control his anger or find a non-lethal solution is what makes him Superman (and provides the moral authority for him to take the law into his own hands). Superman would also probably (Like John Stewart in "In Blackest Night") surrender to an authority that wanted to try him for regicide.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by dbcowboy
Loved the scene where Darkseid stomps on Superman's face and says, "This is exactly where you belong: underneath my heel", just before Superman blows a hole through his foot with his heat-vision. Man, never seen Superman so willing to throw away his code vs. killing. I'd never seen the 3 part AoS episodes they showed before JL but taking all of that (plus the previous invasions of Earth by Darkseid) together, I can certainly see how he could come to HATE Darkseid so much.

When the most upstanding champion of restraint is pushed to his limit and has become convinced that this is the only way, how great must be the evil he faces?

If you've never seen Superman that willing to throw away his code vs killing... do whatever is necessary to get your hands on a certain pre-Crisis Superman Annual. I can't remember the number, but it might be #11 and I understand it was reprinted recently. If you find the actual annual, it has Superman in the foreground with a black tentacle thing (Black Mercy) on his chest, Mongul menacing behind him, and a shocked Batman/Robin/Wonder Woman in the background.

It contains, hands down, one of the ten greatest moments of comic history -- the "Burn Panel".

As to the episode itself -- I had it set to tape, but the power went off. Even when the power came back the cable didn't. Argh!

[J4y]

As to the episode itself -- I had it set to tape, but the power went off. Even when the power came back the cable didn't. Argh!

Kazaa is good. :) Downloaded and watched all the Legacy and Apokolipse Now episodes today and getting Twilight now. Since Superman Batman Adventures isn't shown here at all and the station that shows JLA is a good two or three months off from showing Twilight if ever, I'm really glad I can just download them. And no commercials of course.

While I agree with you that, were the stakes high enough, Supes would kill Darkseid, I gotta disagree with you regarding the lack of remorse.

He'd tear himself up inside.

Eah? I got the distinct impression Darkseid regularly invades, slaughters and enslaves planets all the time, he is an ever present uncontrolled killing machine. Letting him live to destroy other planets is like letting Godzilla eat Tokyo because Japan isn't the U.S.A...

Since he can't be jailed like Superman's typcial enemies, he needs to be destroyed... like they destroyed Stagg or the white martians... or the soldiers in Savage Time. He didn't tear himself up inside then.

The writers just can't be bothered to come up with a decent enough story that keeps Darkseid free but they want to keep him around so for no apparent reason Superman leaves him alive and free to continue to pursue his goal of enslaving and killing everyone.