Need the help of old timers to the hero game system

[JmOz]

Ok, back in the dark ages a book came out by the one and only Aaron Alliston called The Circle &M.E.T.A. I have a copy of said book and am converting the characters (at least one) over for my own pet project. The problem is I am not sure if the book is written for 1st or 2nd edition, and I do not have the rules either way.

I know how flash worked in 3rd edition on, but would like to confirm any changes that were made to it before then...

Any help will be met with hits from my Rep Stick

[Lord Mhoram]

It looks like second.

Flash in ealier editions worked pretty much like 3rd - 10d6 per die, count the body for phases flashed, automatically area effect radius.

[Lord Mhoram]

As a side note - it is M.E.T.E - Metropolitan Extra-Terrestrial Enclave. :D

And to check for 1st to 2ndedition take a look at multipowers, that was the biggest change. In first ed, any limitations you had on a slot served to increase the active point reserve in the slot, rather than dropping the slot cost (so that an OAF slot in a multipower than normally had 60 pt reserve would be 120 active points.)

[Lord Liaden]

Loved The Circle and M.E.T.E. (not "meta" BTW). The copyright date for Mr. Allston's book is 1983; Champions First Ed was released in 1981, and Third Edition in 1984, so I assume TCAM was written for Second Edition. Aside from changes to Growth and adding some of the Skills and Powers from Champions II and III, I don't think there were any significant differences between Second and Third Edition.

If you go here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15890) you'll find an attached file covering most of the differences in HERO pre-Fourth Edition, which should pretty well take care of your conversion needs.

[McCoy]

Definitely not first. I thought third, but if not then second.

[gojira]

As a side note - it is M.E.T.E - Metropolitan Extra-Terrestrial Enclave. :D

And to check for 1st to 2ndedition take a look at multipowers, that was the biggest change. In first ed, any limitations you had on a slot served to increase the active point reserve in the slot, rather than dropping the slot cost (so that an OAF slot in a multipower than normally had 60 pt reserve would be 120 active points.)

I'm not sure that this rule is in 3rd, either. I've never played that lims on a slot don't increase the AP reserve on the slot. I'm sure the old 3rd ed of Armadillo is built this way. I'll go check though.

Megan's powers in The Circle are bought as lims increasing the AP of the slot, iirc. I'm not sure that this'll help you identify the exact rules version used, however.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm not sure that this rule is in 3rd, either. I've never played that lims on a slot don't increase the AP reserve on the slot. I'm sure the old 3rd ed of Armadillo is built this way. I'll go check though.

Megan's powers in The Circle are bought as lims increasing the AP of the slot, iirc. I'm not sure that this'll help you identify the exact rules version used, however.

Just checked TCAM, and Megan Pierce's Multipower Lims are on both the Reserve and the slots. They have no effect on the Active Point totals, but do reduce the Real Point cost of Reserve and slots, as they would do now.

[Lord Mhoram]

Just checked TCAM, a

Yeah. I checked the Bowman's multipower before I posted, his 8 charges slot (the flash) dropped real and no effect on active.

[Lord Mhoram]

I'm not sure that this rule is in 3rd, either.

Nope. They changed it from 1st to 2nd and never went back. I have an old Space Gamer (IIRC) that has an article about the changes from 1st to 2nd and that section was entitled "They're Doing WHAT to multipowers?!?!?"

[JmOz]

You have ALL been repped

Next question about 2nd edition, were there 3 point skill levels?

[gojira]

Yeah, you're right. Same with Armadillo and Kor Hunter. I just checked Kor's charges limitations on his multi-slots. They don't exceed the AP of his reserve.

You know, it's possible that I've just been playing wrong all this time. ;)

[Cold Steel]

Alien Enemies had a 4th Ed. update on METE.

[NestorDRod]

You have ALL been repped

Next question about 2nd edition, were there 3 point skill levels?

I cannot answer this question this very minute as I am at work (shh, don't tell anyone!), but I just serendipitiously have my 2nd Ed books accessible once I get home so I should then be able to authoritatively give you the answer you seek.

Circle and M.E.T.E... Ah, the memories! :D

[gojira]

Circle and M.E.T.E... Ah, the memories! :D

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the update. It's a cool idea, I can't believe no one thought of this before.

I hope the results will be posted.

[Lord Mhoram]

You have ALL been repped

Next question about 2nd edition, were there 3 point skill levels?

I can't find my second edition rules (sigh), but they have them in first.
(Specific level - +1 with on epower, skill or attack).

[JmOz]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the update. It's a cool idea, I can't believe no one thought of this before.

I hope the results will be posted.

I will send the Steve a request for permision to post the characters, depending on what he says I will start a thread for them.

[JmOz]

A question for you all about how to do the conversions:

The flash power has changed ALOT, the four biggest changes:

1) The price is now half of what it was

2) It is no longer as effective in regards to how long a flash lasts (It is now measured in segments instead of phases)

3) It is more effective with what it covers (A whole sense group opposed to a single sense)

4) It use to be automaticaly AE, it is no longer

So I see three options

A) Same # of dice, 1/2 the original AE same active points

B) x2 the dice, & the AE advantage, for x2 the cost

C) x2 the dice, no AE, same cost

I am leaning towards B

[gojira]

I will send the Steve a request for permision to post the characters, depending on what he says I will start a thread for them.

I think, based on previous comments by him, that posting your own work is always ok, even if it's derived from someone else's work.

Posting Superman is legal and ok with him, as the write-up is your own. I guess there may be some issue that applies to TC and METE specifically, but that's why I'm assuming it's ok.

Cf. here:
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51922

[Hugh Neilson]

Circle/METE was 2nd Ed, I believe. IIRC, there was very little time between 1e and 2e.

[Hugh Neilson]

A question for you all about how to do the conversions:

The flash power has changed ALOT, the four biggest changes:

1) The price is now half of what it was

2) It is no longer as effective in regards to how long a flash lasts (It is now measured in segments instead of phases)

3) It is more effective with what it covers (A whole sense group opposed to a single sense)

4) It use to be automaticaly AE, it is no longer

IIRC, it was area effect radius, but also Nonselective - you also had to roll to hit each individual in the radius. And it was 10 points per d6.


So I see three options

A) Same # of dice, 1/2 the original AE same active points

B) x2 the dice, & the AE advantage, for x2 the cost

C) x2 the dice, no AE, same cost

I am leaning towards B

I'd probably lean to anything but B, myself - Flash was modified, in part (IMO) because it was overpowered. Also, remember that, in 2e, the entire effect was blocked with half as much flash defense because it was measured in phases, not segments. I'd likely make some A and some C.

[Lord Mhoram]

Circle/METE was 2nd Ed, I believe. IIRC, there was very little time between 1e and 2e.

'81 and '82 as I recall.

[JmOz]

I have now completed 2 write ups for The Circle, namely there base (The Garden) and Kor Hunter (I like archers =) )

[NestorDRod]

OK, sorry for the delay, having my wife fall fown and break her wrist kind of interfered with important web surfing / research time. ;)

According to my 2nd Edition book, Skill Levels (which include CSLs) come in 3 flavors:

3 pts. (Specific Level) - +1 with one power, skill, or attack.
5 pts. (General Level) - +1 with a class of powers, skills, or attacks.
10 pts. (Overall Level) - +1 with any skill, power, attack, or action.

And for what it's worth, Flash is 1d6 per 10 pts., minimum cost 20 pts. Maximum range is 5x pts. It is automatically an AOE radius attack, 1" radius per 10 pts.

Hope this helps.

[JmOz]

OK, so for those who are curious, I wrote Steve about posting them, he politly informed me that they had reverted to Aaron, whom I have sense E-Mailed making the same request to him (Aaron). If I get the go ahead I will poost the ones I have, with HDC files.