Dr. Destroyer

[kidsavior]

I just picked up Conquerors, Killers and Crooks... And WOW!!
The new Doctor is SO much tougher than before. Before he was tough, but none of my players really saw him as a massive threat, but now? Whoa boy. I'm starting a story arc with the good Doctor as the major villian and I can't wait until the big final when the heroes confront him. The first one that underestimates him is in for a BIG suprise.

So Steve and Co. good job!! CKC is a great book and all the re-writes are cool. Thanks for all the hard work. 5th is and was worth the wait.

[Monolith]

Now that was a pleasant surprise. Most of the Dr. Destroyer statements tend to go the other way. :) I like Dr. D as written too, but I don't think I'll be using him for a loooong time. :)

[Jhamin]

The best rundown I have heard of the changes comed down to this:

4th Edition Dr. Destroyer = Dr. Doom (The world best team can topple him)

5th Edition Dr. Destroyer = Thanos of Titan (All the heroes in the world hope they are enough)

[Patriot]

I can Take him!!!!!


(I really dont know, I havent seen him yet!)

[Agent X]

A little damage reduction here and there, some other exotic defenses, and a big area attack and Dr. D could have some problems.

[TheEmerged]

Know what I think is funny? One of my PC's has a higher INT. That's gonna have interesting ramifications when the inevitable happens :D

[Agent X]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Know what I think is funny? One of my PC's has a higher INT. That's gonna have interesting ramifications when the inevitable happens :D I wouldn't point that out in front of Dr. Destroyer if I were you. That wouldn't be smart.;)

[Patriot]

With that said Agent X , I might just be able to take him
(I was kidding before)

25% pd/ed resistent DR
61 Res X2 hardend def
a lot of stun
And a explosion attack which can be AP

Almost a 1700 pt Pc


Cosmic level brick
Not as diverse as Superman though

[Klytus]

Any hero or villian with the proper points spent the right way can take down almost anybody... but the same also applies to them.

That having been said, the new Dr. D. did surprise me, though. I mean, a 30d6 attack?!? A 20d6 Eb that costs 0 END? I used to think a basic 20d6 was over the top!

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Patriot
With that said Agent X , I might just be able to take him
(I was kidding before)
Well after Dr. Destroyer MPAs you with his 30d6 and 20d6 attacks once or twice we'll let you know how the rest of the battle turned out when you wake up in the hospital a week later. :)

[Patriot]

30 d6 averages 100 stun
- 61 for defenses
=39-25% dr
=29 not stunned, and its my turn
1/2 moved up at a flight of 70
1/2 move down
25D6 Detonation+str and move thru damage
Last Ditch power 90 +11d6
X10 End

Note this Pc(Patriot) is semi-retired, he stays at base and answers questions to the press,and for the team.

Hes has a Disad Hatred Of Dr.D
And he has used his last ditch power a total of 5 times in 12 years,Please dont think my games are all this high powered, they are not.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Patriot
With that said Agent X , I might just be able to take him
(I was kidding before)

25% pd/ed resistent DR
61 Res X2 hardend def
a lot of stun
And a explosion attack which can be AP

Almost a 1700 pt Pc


Cosmic level brick
Not as diverse as Superman though THAT sounds like a mighty character.

[Lord Liaden]

I think it was on Natoman's temporary discussion boards where someone gave what I think was a cogent description of the threat from the new Dr. Destroyer:

The first time he encountered the Justice League, they could probably take him without too much trouble. But the second time, the Leaguers would have a major fight on their hands.

If he shows up a third time, the League had better call the Justice Society, the Titans and anyone else they can find.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Patriot
30 d6 averages 100 stun
- 61 for defenses
=39-25% dr
=29 not stunned, and its my turn
1/2 moved up at a flight of 70
1/2 move down
25D6 Detonation+str and move thru damage
Last Ditch power 90 +11d6
X10 End

Note this Pc(Patriot) is semi-retired, he stays at base and answers questions to the press,and for the team.

Hes has a Disad Hatred Of Dr.D
And he has used his last ditch power a total of 5 times in 12 years,Please dont think my games are all this high powered, they are not. I wouldn't care if they were all that high powered. Pretty cool. I remember the old Dr. D giving our team fits. I sat down and plotted for two hours the tactics that would allow us to beat the guy, IF nobody rolled really bad.

[Gary]

Originally posted by Patriot
30 d6 averages 100 stun
- 61 for defenses
=39-25% dr
=29 not stunned, and its my turn
1/2 moved up at a flight of 70
1/2 move down
25D6 Detonation+str and move thru damage
Last Ditch power 90 +11d6
X10 End

Note this Pc(Patriot) is semi-retired, he stays at base and answers questions to the press,and for the team.

Hes has a Disad Hatred Of Dr.D
And he has used his last ditch power a total of 5 times in 12 years,Please dont think my games are all this high powered, they are not.

You have a -14 OCV if you're doing a movethrough at 70". Odds are that you'll miss even with an explosion attack.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gary
You have a -14 OCV if you're doing a movethrough at 70". Odds are that you'll miss even with an explosion attack. I get the feeling he has plenty of skill levels. Plus, if you miss by two hexes, does it really matter that much with an explosion that size?

[Klytus]

Originally posted by Gary
You have a -14 OCV if you're doing a movethrough at 70". Odds are that you'll miss even with an explosion attack.

Then you don't aim for Dr. D., just the hex he's standing in.

[Gary]

Originally posted by Klytus
Then you don't aim for Dr. D., just the hex he's standing in.

The hex would still have a DCV 17 in such a case. Not that easy. Also, I would need info about relative dexes and speeds between the 2 to get a better idea.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gary
The hex would still have a DCV 17 in such a case. Not that easy. Also, I would need info about relative dexes and speeds between the 2 to get a better idea. Would it be a DCV of 3 or 0? If you have an area affect attack the dcv at melee range is 0. Incidentally, I am about to make my 1000th post over on the Agent X thread.

[Enforcer84]

Powerman could have taken a few shots from DD and it really depends on weather Destroyer rolls well with that first one. Powerman has 125 STR and a martial strike. So if he pushes his strength he gets 31d6. He has 10 pts of Defense on DD and they both have 50% damage reduction.
Neither can stun the other and in 4 shots its over for someone.

[Chaosliege]

Sure, if you have a team of 1700 point guys, you could take Dr D. But most of us play guys in the 350-450 pt range. I know I wouldn't want my team to face him.

[Boll Weevil]

Hey wait a minute. I don't know how I could have missed this before. Doctor D is pretty. His ship didn't go down, his face was not burned. What happened? What of Professor Muerte's facial flambe homage?

[tenebre]

he is a brilliant Role playing device.

but damn he could smoke tons of heroes without even trying

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Know what I think is funny? One of my PC's has a higher INT. That's gonna have interesting ramifications when the inevitable happens :D

The villain Teleios has a 50 INT I believe. Now THAT is smart.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Monolith
Well after Dr. Destroyer MPAs you with his 30d6 and 20d6 attacks once or twice we'll let you know how the rest of the battle turned out when you wake up in the hospital a week later. :)

IF you wake up

[MisterVimes]

What I REALLY liked about the new Dr. D had nothing to do with his Stats, but rather the emphasis on the fact that Dr. D is old and he running out of time. It sort of gave me the feeling that I had when I read Avengers: The Kang Legacy, a great (and Terrible) villain going for one last ride.

[Patriot]

Gary, According to page 237 in the Fred, I get my full ocv/dcv(moving at combat speed flight)
and i do have a few levels
5 over all
3 with movethrus
base ocv of 10
Spd of 7

Mr Vimes, I wouldnt be stuned from his attack



Again i must state hes semi-retired, and the rest of the Team are new recruits(almost 400 points now)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Patriot
Gary, According to page 237 in the Fred, I get my full ocv/dcv(moving at combat speed flight)
and i do have a few levels
5 over all
3 with movethrus
base ocv of 10
Spd of 7
Your OCV doing a 70" Move-through (including levels and base) would be 4. That is 10 base +8 levels -14 for Move-Through.

Dr. Destroyer would have a 14 DCV against that Move-Through. You would hit him if you rolled a 3. :)

And Dr. D's primary attack will do 105 STUN on average. His secondary attack (which he shoots at the same time) will do 70 STUN on average. Your 61 PD and Damage Reduction means you take 33 STUN from the primary attack and 7 STUN from the secondary attack. If your CON is more than 33 you are ok. If it is less, you are Stunned. Either way you take 40 STUN per hit.

[Keneton]

This is to Patriot. . .

Doc D has an 8 Speed and when you move through and your DCV is like 3 hell go to your head with 30d6 at a 10 ocv counting the -8 and push. You will take an average of 105 Stun-61 Defense=44 x2= 88 Stun-25%Reduction equals 66. If that doesnt stun you then cool. I would rapid attack you then. Of all Doc D's power the most terrifying thing is the 60 Presence combined with the rep and oratory. This is an easy 18 Dice Presence attack in the right circumnstance.

My character Keneton is over 1000 points and ShadeJA that post here is over 2300. HeroWeapon in nearly 2000 and Horror Hunter about 2200.

Your chracter does seemvery powerful which is cool in my book. Please see my ER in the Free stuff and rate hime. From what you say so far he seems like about a 125 ER. Doc D rates at 213 and is th highest rated so far. After Him would be the Demon Lord from the Bestiary, The Lemurian Golem, or Takofanes.

Its cool to hear about other powerful heroes.
:D

[allen]

ummm... I don't have CKC in front of me, but doesn't Doc D's 30d6 EB have a Range of 750" and doesn't he have some Movement?

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Gary
You have a -14 OCV if you're doing a movethrough at 70". Odds are that you'll miss even with an explosion attack.

You can't miss your own hex. It's an automatic hit. Flight doesn't require a to-hit roll to end up in a hex (like leaping) so it's impossible to miss with that attack. Unfortunately all he gets is the explosion part, not the velocity or the STR... so it doesn't matter, anyway.

In our game Dr. D was long dead... we killed him when he tried that hypno ray thing back when he was a wuss.

Then it turned out not to be him... but he's dead, anyway of old age.

I still don't understand the "oh no, I have to go underground and hide" bit in CKC.

My old character, Omega Man, could tackle the CKC version, I think. I'd have to view the sheet again. For the current group, there's not much need for a DD-like character.

We don't allow the multiple attacks bit. Even still, I believe it's against the spirit of things, if not the letter, to just fire off multiple energy blasts like that. Or maybe that was a discussion on multiple attacks with martial arts needing different bases. I don't recall. Kinda moot for me, anyway.

[Patriot]

Had a question about it, in the 3rd colum, where it says capabilities, if you have an EB, do you put 1 or the number ofd6 it is?

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by Keneton
Of all Doc D's power the most terrifying thing is the 60 Presence combined with the rep and oratory. This is an easy 18 Dice Presence attack in the right circumnstance.


Lordy, thats right. I forgot about his Presence attack. :eek:

[TheEmerged]

RE: Telios. Huh. Thanks for pointing that out, I guess I was still in that "Dr. D's supposed to be the smartest in the world" mode. 'Course, I haven't yet decided what (if any) role Telios plays in the NeoChampion Universe (my campaign)... That may be something I have to correct.

RE: PRE 60. Again, it goes to show how different some campaigns are. I have an NPC named "The Creep" that's designed as a 250-pt "Level 1" nova -- who's main power is a 60 PRE (30 of which normal, 30 of which costs END) combined with a PRE Suppression field.

[Keneton]

Originally posted by Patriot
Had a question about it, in the 3rd colum, where it says capabilities, if you have an EB, do you put 1 or the number ofd6 it is?
Add 1 for each ability that you possess. He's going to be a doozy! If you have Hero Designer you can e-mail patriot to me and I will rate hime for you. He sounds really cool. I love the tuff guys with some real EP!!
:D

[Patriot]

I dont know whether to be proud or ashamed of this but
The Character known as Patriot has a EF Rating of:


400.81



As he collapses under his own point total...




Btw I dont have HERO DESIGNER,my archaic Computer cant handle it

[Jhamin]

Of course if I created my Dad on 18Quadrillion points with attack and defense numbers that rival nuclear half lives, he could probably beat up your Dad too.....


Sorry, just ranting.
Dr. Destroyer is really powerful in comparason to the Champions Universe standards. If you don't follow those standards then of course you can beat him up. If you want to be better than the standards, you just buy yourself above them.
I mean, just cause Galacticus would whup my buddy from sophomore year in high school, that doesn't mean that my buddy couldn't kick some serious 16 year old butt when he got going.

[Klytus]

In a not-so subtlke attempt to discuss something other than who can or cannot beat-up the Big D., let me ask this...

Asside from his staggering power, do folks out there actually LIKE Dr. D as a villain? If so, why? And if not, why not?

[Jhamin]

The evil Doctor is a great villian. If anything I am reluctant to use him because of his reputation for unrivaled evil. I mean you could trot out lesser baddies like Firewing or Dark Seraph whenever you needed somebody dramatically bad, but I always feel like the evil plots I generate for my players aren't worthy of Dr. D.
I generally want to use him more, I just don't want my players to loose their fear of him.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Klytus
Asside from his staggering power, do folks out there actually LIKE Dr. D as a villain? If so, why? And if not, why not?
I like Dr. Destroyer quite a bit, but I do not actually use him as a "fighting" villain in my games. In my game if Dr. Destroyer has to do it himself then he has already failed. In my world you will encounter Destroyer-bots (robots which look like Dr. Destroyer which are sent by him to do certain tasks), one of his superpowered henchmen (Gigaton or Rakshasa), a mercenary supervillain (who might or might not know he is working for Dr. Destroyer), or some of his operatives (field agents, Black Talons, Destroids, etc).

I currently have a couple of sub-plots dealing with a multifaceted Dr. Destroyer plan. My players think these events were nothing more than random crimes. They have not started to put it all together yet. I also have two sub-plots dealing with Dr. Destroyer hunting down both Menton and Teleios that will eventually spill over into the player's laps.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Monolith
I like Dr. Destroyer quite a bit, but I do not actually use him as a "fighting" villain in my games. In my game if Dr. Destroyer has to do it himself then he has already failed.

I think this is the best way to handle Dr. D. In his earliest inception he was just a Dr. Doom clone, but now he has trancended that into more of a God-Like character. I think the massive stats should serve as a deterent (as is befitting a God-like being) while DD is used as a mastermind whose fingers can be found in every pie... very Kaiser Soze.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by Jhamin
Of course if I created my Dad on 18Quadrillion points with attack and defense numbers that rival nuclear half lives, he could probably beat up your Dad too.....


Do you have a point other than dishing on people who happen to play at different power levels? I'm sure there's a thread around here about supers devoted to stopping muggings in the park and having a tough time of it. Maybe you'll like that better.



Klytus asked...
Asside from his staggering power, do folks out there actually LIKE Dr. D as a villain? If so, why? And if not, why not?

Nope. I think he's pretty lame. All that power, all those agents, all that gear... and he still doesn't win. Why did he hide? How is he so lame that half the heroes in the world manage to foil his every plot (because, after all, he can battle teams and teams of heroes and slaughter them, right)?

He's kind of boring, in my opinion. I can find no reason for such a bland character to get such status (as laid out by the power level). I also take a firm dislike of writing characters up as "the best." Dr.D is the most powerful threat, Menton is the most powerful human mentalist, etc. They're not among the best, they are the best. Too much spoonfed stuff. Just a nit I have to pick with the writing.

We killed him in his first appearance in our game (way, way back). He kind of came back when Classic Enemies was released, but was never really much of a problem. Now he's just dead of old age.

I was considering dusting him off for a side campaign I was thinking about running, but he'd need to be toned down. You can't provide much characterization for him if you have to keep him hidden away (because he can slaughter standard level heroes). He needs to be more Doom and less Darkseid.

[Tech]

I'm finally back, although I had to change my SN to avoid confusion with a similar SN, mine formerly being Bulls-Eye. On to the show...

Dr. Destroyer is regarded as 'the' major enemy of the campaign I'm in. I believe whether or not he is used by a particular GM depends on the player's mindsets and how the GM uses Dr. Destroyer. I, for one, will not be using the new statistics from CKC - the campaign simply doesn't support that power level. I'm aware some campaigns do and more power to them. I do have to say, however, that I very much enjoy the new picture of him and really wish that the picture could be colored in somehow. Is anyone out there willing to do that? Anyone?

[ogier300]

I've always liked Dr. Destroyer. He's got that Darkseid/Thanos thing going now. You don't defeat him, you defeat his plans. And when you do finally defeat him, you know you've reached the pinnacle of being a superhero. He's the shiny brass ring, the top rung of villainy.

As for him hiding out? Well, from the backstory, it sounds like when he was in Detroit, -every- superhero in the world pretty much came to battle him. And he was at his old power level, so no 30D6 + 20D6 MPAs...

I figure he went into hiding just to let things cool down, as well as to uppower his suit.

[Boll Weevil]

Originally posted by Tech
...really wish that the picture could be colored in somehow. Is anyone out there willing to do that? Anyone?

I'm working on it. Doctor D is the first character I colored from Classic Enemies, darn it it's the first I'll do from CKC.

[Patriot]

I love Dr.Destroyer as a villian , but have only used him a few times
Im about to use him for the first time since 5th ed came out.

Hold the world hostage by threatening to blow-up the Ross Ice shelf in the Antartic (causeing massive flooding and loss of life around costal areas) around the world.


Mwahhh Haah haa......*cough cough*

[Jeff T.]

Originally posted by Acroyear
Nope. I think he's pretty lame. All that power, all those agents, all that gear... and he still doesn't win.

Following the official timeline, I believe DD has only appeared 3 times. I would call killing 50000+ innocents and a dozen superheroes a big victory from a 'villain' point of view.

[Patriot]

How many points is he now?

How much of that is spent on bases?

[KawangaKid]

Originally posted by Acroyear
I was considering dusting him off for a side campaign I was thinking about running, but he'd need to be toned down. You can't provide much characterization for him if you have to keep him hidden away (because he can slaughter standard level heroes). He needs to be more Doom and less Darkseid. [/B]

Or more of Lord Saker, one of my favorite villains. He was able to ignore an alien invasion that had targeted him as one of the prime threats to their success...

[ogier300]

Doc's 2516 pts. 310 of it in bases.

Oh, and the really nasty attack combo...

10D6 RKA + 8D6 Speed Drain MPA...

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Klytus
In a not-so subtlke attempt to discuss something other than who can or cannot beat-up the Big D., let me ask this...

Asside from his staggering power, do folks out there actually LIKE Dr. D as a villain? If so, why? And if not, why not?

I have some problems with him. Frankly he reminds me too much of Doctor Doom with all the bits of Doctor Doom I like carved out. And he's a little too the stereotypical evil genius with no human depth to him. Doom has always these little bits and pieces that make him interseting, that give him depth.