DC Assault

[FTJoshua]

In my last post, I asked for help designing or finding tanks and related military weapons used to go after some high-powered PC's. The PC's survived the attack, and have now determined to "take over the country" by marching right into the Congress and announcing their intentions. They seem to think that since they are (they believe) among the most powerful beings on the planet, there is nothing that can stop them.

Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't; here's my question: What is the liklihood of success? These are 9 or so PC's from 300 pts to more than 700 pts. But I figure the U.S. Gov't is would stop at nothing to get rid of them once their intentions are clear, even if what they are proposing would ultimately help the world.

So what kind of defenses/offenses would be brought to bear in this scenario? Assume there is nothing more high tech than what we publicly know the military has, or might have. Or, do you think they would succeed?

Thanks! All opinions welcome & needed!

[Vondy]

First -- in a world with super beings the government probably has a few on the payroll. If they don't, they probably have access to a number of super beings they feel can be trusted to varying degrees if the need arised.

Second -- what do the other super beings in the courty think. Some of them might feel a need to step forward and deal with these "lunatics" right off the bat. If I were a powerful super and some group of heroes decided to overthrow the government you'd find me knocking on the White House door. "Mr. President, what do you want me to do?"

Third -- it is entirely likely the government has dossiers on these characters with an idea of their abilities. They may even have selected specific weapons or techniques for dealing with them. In addition, the government has contingency plans for all sorts of whacky things. "Supers take over the capitol" is probably one of them.

Fourth -- with those stated intentions and the unlikely prospect of bringing the characters to justice the government will likely elect to terminate the threat as quickly and decisively as possible.

Fifth -- the government has some extremely effective weapons, both conventional and otherwise. Most supers couldn't take on a division of infantry (dear lord: consider the amount of anti-tank weaponry and helicoptor support such a division has, let alone guns and grenades. if they wanted to, let alone a combat wing of jet fighters, a battalion of tanks, or a full on cruise missile strike from the navy [let alone all of these things combined].

Sixth -- Unless these guys have a whole team of Hulks, or are hanging in Superman's League, they are totally screwed. The only thing they have going in their favor is that they're holding the congress hostage. They are doing that right? If not, God help them. And if they are, was there some reason it was a full session. If not there were probably three guys in their talking to an empty chamber.

Seventh -- sounds like martial law just got imposed in Washington DC and the place just became an armed camp. Ever hit a super with a full on blast from a 30 MM Vulcan? Or several Vulcans? Or a 120 MM Tank Shell. Let alone the fact that they constitute a cause for the use of unconventional weapons. What happens to a super hit with a gell-ball filled with VX Gas Goo? Or when they get nailed with a Sarin Gas shell? What if the government gets tricky and drives them into the bunker beneath the capitol. Sure, they can hold out, but what happens when the doors are cemented shut and carbon monoxide is pumped in?

Eighth -- from a role playing perspective, unless they intend to start bumping off hostages/congressmen, their only out is a surrender, and if they can get the word out on why they went to such extreme steps, maybe a pardon, but here's the flaw with that. They didn't walk in and say -- we need to draw this to everyone's attention and this is how we're going to get the word out.... They wen't in and announced they were taking over the government.

OUCH!

[DoctorItron]

You might not even need the military. The 9 PCs announce "We are taking over the country!" I think virtually every American would unite against them, including superheroes and supervillains. Certainly there must be a few supers with "teleport target to the moon" or "drain superpower" powers.

If you're running an atypical game where the PCs are the only people in the country with superpowers, then the military would break out attack helicopters, A10's (the ugly flying tanks), and other heavy weapons. If that still didn't work, and the government was about to be taken over by a hostile force, collateral damage would become acceptable and chemical or even nuclear weapons might be used.

There's always the more subtle approach, too. Do any of the PCs have friends and family? Take hostages!

[SuperPheemy]

Well, marching onto Capital Hill is going to cause untold amounts of damage. Firstly, any Secret Service agents on duty there will die trying to stop the SuperBeings from gaining entrance, or to evict them once they did gain entrance. In addition, the world news media will cover every bloody second, in real-time, with all the shaky combat footage they can muster.

Also, if the Federal Government has a Superhero team "on call" you can bet they will be on the scene post haste. As well as any Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, or Coast Guard forces that can scramble on a moment's notice.

While the assembled security forces try to prevent the SuperBeings from getting in, other forces will be getting the Congressmen and Senators OUT. You can also safely assume that the President, VP, and the Supreme Court Justices will also be evacuated in the most expedient manner possible.

Unless it is crystal clear that the government is an oppressive, totalitarian entity that deserves to be overthrown, the PCs can expect a general resistance to their rule from almost everyone. In short, marching on Congress and disbanding the government turns them instantly into Supervillains of the maniacal dictator bent.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy
Firstly, any Secret Service agents on duty there will die trying to stop the SuperBeings from gaining entrance, or to evict them once they did gain entrance.

/nitpick alert

It would be the Capitol Police, not the Secret Service.

/end nitpick alert

[SuperPheemy]

Capital Police, Secret Service... The dudes in suits with machineguns paid to die in defense of our elected officials.

Which reminds me, if the government had some sort of "super agency" like S.H.I.E.L.D., CHECKMATE, or even G.I. JOE there's probably a couple of ELITE squads hanging around DC for justsuchanemergency.

[Asperion]

The government will continue to peck at them with the same military forces that they defeated. If the final battle proved to be close, then the government would send in stronger forces. In addition they would also use covert operations teams to catch them with their guard down. These teams most likely will not do any to much actual combat. Their primary purpose would be to gather intel about the PCs (strengths, abilities, weaknesses, hunteds, etc.). They would most likely be working in conjunction with the FBI in getting this intel. As useful hunteds appear, they will be manipulated to bringing down the PCs if not out right hired by the government. Also the government would have supers on their payroll (or at least that can be called upon) that can give the PCs a good run for their money if not actually defeat them. And remember during times of crises the government can declare martial law with or without a declaration of war. Under martial law, the government determines who can get the necessities of life and how much they get. Under that ability, they would simply state that the criminals (including the PCs) are not allowed any food and they will simply starve to death or start stealing what is needed to live, unles they have the power that means that they do not have to eat.

[William Bushway]

This is when I'd introduce the Secret Service supers - people who have powers, but they're so limited in scope that they can't operate as a costumed hero would. So instead, they've taken the steady paycheck of a government job. Of course, the government has made sure that none of these folks have public identities.

Your hero marches up to the White House, when an anynonymous Secret Serviceman places a hand on his chest.

Anonymous Secret Serviceman: "Sir, I'm afraid I can't let you pass."

Hero: "And how do you intend to stop me?"

That's when A.S.S. hits him with 1" Superleap, UAO, No Range, Megascale (1" = 1,000,000 miles).

[BishopofB&W]

This sounds like an issue of Knights of the Dinner Table where Brian, Dave, and Bob try to wreck another campaign.

[Lord Liaden]

I notice that you mentioned that the PCs think they are "among the most powerful beings on the planet"; does that mean that there are others on Earth who are as powerful, or more? If so, and if the government had reason to expect more trouble from the PCs, would any of these others be open to being persuaded to assist the government? Say, out of an appeal to patriotism, or a pardon for past misdeeds, or maybe just a hefty paycheck?

I'm curious as to how the conflict between the PCs and the government has deteriorated to this point; that might give us a clearer idea of how to suggest approaching this.

[RevHooligan]

If I was the GM facing this deal, the PCs would come up against the "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" guys. In a world of known superpowers, the ultraparanoid intel services would have MAD covert supers. No flashy spandex or nothing. Just guys in JC Penney suits and dark glasses. Hell, I'd make them all look like kittens. 900 active point martial artist kittens. With fire breath. And mind scan, targeting.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

... and ... and ... and. What everyone else here said, trebled. Every Good-Guy Gun in the WORLD is going to be offering their services; hell, half the BAD guys are going to be saying to the USG, 'Hey, if you give us all Unconditional Pardons from anything we've done in the past, plus a hundred million dollars each, we'll take 'em on for you.' And the government will do it.

They'll also evacuate DC, and 20km of the surrounding Maryland/Virginia countryside, just in case the worst scenario occurs and they have to tac-nuke the PCs. However, I guarantee that in a universe in which the PCs are 'some of' the most powerful people on the planet (a la White Wolf's Aberrant game), the major world powers have measures in place to defend the governmental system.

In the US, I prefer a Secret Service agent, usually on the Presidential Detail -- a normal guy, just with one of two sets of powers. Either:

a very strong 'Drain, vs. All Superhuman Abilities at Once (+2), AoE Radius (+1), 0 END (+½), Persistent (+½), Personal Immunity (+¼), IPF/X (+1), Always On (-½) (35 points per 1d6) -- and an Uzi, just like every other Secret Service guy, or
a Killing Attack, AVLD (something obscure, like Power Defense), Does Body, IPF/X.

This is the guy who is there to be the last line of defense for the President, the guy who is there to Kill Rogue Paranormals Who Try To Kill The Boss.

If your PCs have actually done this -- stupid, but some groups are like that -- you have one of four routes you can go. You can have no mercy and kill them now, you can let them escape and be on the run for the rest of their (probably short) natural lives, you can defeat, capture, and 'Suicide Squad' them (implanted cortex bombs, disloyalty/disobedience and they go Boom), or you can let them get away with it, then turn them into NPCs.

Killing them now means doing any one of the many things said here; I actually sort of like the 'DC's been nuked, now you're playing a character in the aftermath' campaign.

Letting them escape means things change greatly for the PCs; nobody will trust them, they go from 'good guys' to 100% bad guys. Though Dr. Destroyer might find them interesting conversational partners...

Suicide Squad means they get to play, but are forced to dance to the tune of the government -- and they WILL get sent off on 100% impossible missions, succeed or die, thank you very much.

Letting them get away with it? Turn them into NPCs, have them create new characters, and OCCASIONALLY ask their advice about how an ex-PC might react or make a decision. Let's face it, their version of the US would very abruptly become a police state, and nobody IN the US would put up with it. They'd probably control the DC area, that's about it...

[WhammeWhamme]

Okay. If there's just the military (read: no superhumans), and you just threw everything at them, then they should win. If you didn't, they're being arrogant and need to be stomped.

If it's not just the military, well...

Don't pull out the 'silly' rules constructs.

You don't need to.

Heck, have them stopped a tel/precog. Might wanna *try* and save your campaign...

[Doug McCrae]

Originally posted by FTJoshua
In my last post, I asked for help designing or finding tanks and related military weapons used to go after some high-powered PC's. The PC's survived the attackWhy did the government attack the PCs in the first place?

[assault]

I'd go with short, bloody and memorable. If you do it right, the players will remember this game in twenty years time.

Yes, that's a vote for "kill them all". Just do it right.

Alan

[dbsousa]

It seems clear to me that your players want to play a game where they rule the world. I say let them. Give them a decent fight, and if they win let them rule the world.


Here is the world they rule...

Absent a US government, Law and order break down. People start looting stores for food.

Racial and religious tensions break out into all out war. Lynchings and riots rise to higher levels than the post reconstruction era

The day the Heroes take control, the Stock Market loses 90% of its value. Unemployment rises to 60% in the first three months

Texas, Montana, and Utah declare their independance, and wrest control of the nuclear weapons in their states. Northern California, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia form a new country, the richest per capita in the world.

The European Union and Russia decide to invade, to liberate the American people from the mad dictators.

The American Resistance sends suicide bombers to take out the heroes. Everywhere the heroes go they encounter signs of the resistance, from graffiti on the walls, to flags flown upside down.



Sounds like a fun game to me...

[Demonsong]

I'd go with short, bloody and memorable. If you do it right, the players will remember this game in twenty years time.
Yes, that's a vote for "kill them all". Just do it right.

I totally agree with assault here. I have one rule that I live buy more than any other as a GM.

“I DO NOT KILL PLAYER CHARACTERS! I LET PLAYER CHARACTERS KILL THEMSELVES!”

This whole thing sounds like a group of supers that just made a mass suicide pact. So be it! Your job as a GM is to give them the death they want so badly. Just make it spectacular.

[FTJoshua]

WOW! You guys rock.

1. Everything that's been said is exactly what I am afraid of. I just don't see success as an option.

2. The initial assault to take out the PC's was based on one particular high power mutant, Damage Inc., who--in the public eye--is a loose cannon, a barbarian, no regard of human life. The local government finally got the wheels turning and lured him and the rest of the PC's to a remote location where they tried to destroy them. Loved ones were killed, but no PC's.

3. Damage feels that all we have to do is march into the captiol building (or wherever congress is in session), tell them that we are going to give the people what they want, and then enforce it. He thinks, for example, that if we get on TV and tell the American people, 'No taxes? Done! A wall between Mexico and the US? Done!' then most Americans will applaud the appearance of 9 mutants who can "finally get something done." I, personally, totally disagree that this would happen.

4. Capturing the Congress won't be hard, I don't think; we do have access to a super stealth plane that is supposed to just sort of drop us off on the building, and in we go. What happens after that, though, seems deadly.

All of your comments have been megascale helpful, because I've been unable to express to the "team" why this is doomed. But some of them really do believe it will be that easy. Also they are fresh off a victory where they took out tanks and Blackhawks, and managed to down 2 jets before the jets could dump their dumb bombs. The deaths of loved ones is also fueling the fire.

Quick backstory, by the way: The campaign is similar to X-Men in the "racist" attitudes of most humans vs. mutants, but in our campaign, it is much stronger. There is no School for Gifted Youngsters; it would be burned to the ground by angry mobs.

Previously, there were IMPS, who were mutant police. But they were just as corrupt as any other govenmental body, and the PC's, by luck, were able to televise their brutality and corruption, and bring about their end. So they figure they can do the same on a national level.

Any more help will be appreciated. I will probably send the team a link to this thread.
THANKS!

[FTJoshua]

One other thing: The thinking is that, since the some of the public (at least in Arizona and California) is aware of how strong these mutants are, if they can prove to the public that they will do what the public wants, the public will endorse them, thereby tying the hands of the government. The PC's think that if they tell the American people, "Tell us what we can do to prove we're here for YOU," the people will throw out 100 suggestions, the PC's will pick the one most people want, and go solve it. That will "prove" the mutants are here to help where the Fed has been unable to.

Neat idea. Admirable, even. Likely?

I just think the PC's are not up to date on American psychology.

[Demonsong]

I will probably send the team a link to this thread. Don’t do that!!! Why destroy your fun?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Riots. Lynch mobs. Front-lawn cross-burnings -- with real live mutants on them. Mr. Trask creating Sentinels over in Utah or Montana or Colorado or some sh!t.

I'm not saying they can't win; it's up to you to decide what sort of game world you want to evolve into, because this is the deciding point -- although it MAY have gone too far already. Sure, people might cheer them -- for 10 days, maybe. Then the side-effects set in. 'How do I know Joe Mutie next door isn't going to take over my home town?' 'Hey, the Ruling Council is all mutants, and so am I. I don't have to take sh!t from you no more, baseline.'

Sounds to me like your PCs are too powerful, and that it's time for them to be retired. Perhaps a mystic/seer walks up the steps as they're landing on the Capitol building, holds out her hands to stop them, and gives them a flash-forward image of the world 'if they do what they are setting out to do' -- in effect, the concentration camps of Days of Future Past... or something even worse.

It's your campaign; you, even more than the players, are going to have to live with the decision. YOU have to run it.

[FTJoshua]

Originally posted by Demonsong
Don’t do that!!! Why destroy your fun?

Yeah, I have rethought that. No links.

[Lord Liaden]

The PCs have experienced first hand the violent anti-mutant racism in American society in your world; what makes them think that if they take over the government, by force no less, the majority of Americans will suddenly change their opinions and trust them to keep their promises to make the country a better place?

If you want to convince them that public sympathies are not going to be with them, the government probably had video links to the PC's earlier battle with the military; have them catch news broadcasts showing footage of the fight edited to look as damning as possible, with commentary on the danger of these rogue paranormals who "launched an unwarranted attack on the lawful government of the United States."

[BlackSword]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy
While the assembled security forces try to prevent the SuperBeings from getting in, other forces will be getting the Congressmen and Senators OUT. You can also safely assume that the President, VP, and the Supreme Court Justices will also be evacuated in the most expedient manner possible.


As the president enters his secret office in Cheyenne Mountain, the major villain of the campaign (if there is one), a Magneto or Dr. Destroyer stands up from his desk and says, "Mr. President, you have a problem, I have a solution, lets make a deal."

After a bloody fight the heroes are defeated. Next campaign, heroes dealing with the fact that the supervillain has just ingratiated himself with the government by being its savior.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by RevHooligan
If I was the GM facing this deal, the PCs would come up against the "Break Glass In Case Of Emergency" guys. In a world of known superpowers, the ultraparanoid intel services would have MAD covert supers. No flashy spandex or nothing. Just guys in JC Penney suits and dark glasses. Hell, I'd make them all look like kittens. 900 active point martial artist kittens. With fire breath. And mind scan, targeting.

My long term [13 year] campaign centered on just such a team

[tinfish52]

If you are the GM of a game such as this, you can stop them. Sure, roll some dice and play along. You can stop them cold though.:D

[FTJoshua]

That's what I'm thinking. I just don't see this being successful. Maybe approaching the right people at the right time and proving that they can be a force for good...maybe then. Maybe.

[RevHooligan]

First, if the NSA Psi-Kittens don't take out the team, NO NUKES! A fuel-air explosive will work just as well and leave DC inhabitable after the rebuilding.

Second, in the next campaign, ask the PCs to be government muties trying to deal with the backlash as the public prejudice was proved right and mutant militants are Ruby Ridging the hell out of the attack on Damage Inc.

[assault]

If you don't want to kill your PCs off, you can have them get thrown out by an independent hero team. Something like a thinly disguised version of the X-Men (preferably one of the "classic" lineups) would be appropriate.

Of course, the PCs would then be handed over to the government, who would take a very dim view of their activities, but escaping isn't necessarily impossible. At that stage, you will be running a supervillain campaign.

I have to say that it sounds like your campaign is spinning out of control. It might be time to negotiate an end to it and start again. By negotiate, I mean, convince your players that it's time to retire their characters after a Last Big Epic, which hopefully won't involve their ignominious deaths.

Sod it. It's time for an Alien Invasion. All of humanity versus the Slimy Bug-Eyed Monsters. That should flush away most of the anti-mutie stuff.

Alan

[ZootSoot]

Why not let it succeed? Not simply have the world against them, instead let people believe them when they promise utopia. The campaign will be lots of fun as ther PCs attempt to deliver on their promises without alienating the people. Ruling the US (or the world) can be a thoroughly thankless and difficult and endless task. Eventually they will willingly surrender power.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by ZootSoot
Eventually they will willingly surrender power. I agree with Zoot. If they take over the US, they deserve what goes with it. Letting them win would be the most evil thing you could possibly do to them, and I'd handle it like this:

"Excuse me, Mighty Man, but here are those figures on farm subsidies and pork barrel projects you needed."

"Sir? The Boy Scout troop from Kalamazoo is here. The photographer should be here in 5 minutes. One of the scouts says he's a big fan of yours."

"Lady Justice, the senators from Wyoming insist on an immediate meeting to discuss Federal highway spending. That shouldn't take more than an hour."

What your players don't seem to realize is that by siezing control of the country, their characters have just transformed from superheroes into politicians. Don't forget the Law of Unintended Consequences, either. End farm subsidies? Sure, and bankrupt 50,000 small family farms. Be they socialistic utopians or reactionary tyrants, how long do you think it will be before the heroes are fighting amongst themselves about policy? Three game sessions of this kind of stuff and they'll either abdictate or commit suicide. :D

[RevHooligan]

Of course, if Steve would ever get in gear on the Beltway Hero book, this would be a lot easier.

Or was that a dream?

[WhammeWhamme]

Lemme get this straight.

The US Military ambushed the PC's, tried to kill them, killed their family members, and you think they shouldn't go to war?

Whether they're likely to win or lose, they should definately fight, and go full out. If that's not what you intended, well...

Since you set up the war, let 'em win it.

[Kristopher]

What we don't know is if the PCs had a chance to diffuse the ambush situation before their loved-ones got killed.

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by FTJoshua
So what kind of defenses/offenses would be brought to bear in this scenario? Assume there is nothing more high tech than what we publicly know the military has, or might have. Or, do you think they would succeed?

<p>Launch the Inter-Continental Ballistic Man!

BCing you

[Lord Liaden]

FT, the debate between taking the PCs down and letting them win and deal with the consequences, raises an interesting point for me: which would the players find the most interesting? I realize that you want to retain game-world logic in the situation, and that the players could use an object lesson on the consequences of their actions; but this is still a game which is ultimately supposed to be fun, and unless this group is out of control or you plan to cut them loose, you don't want to run them through a situation that they'll utterly hate. So, what direction do you think will satisfy them most? Do you think they'd like to go out in a blaze of glory bringing the confrontation to a head? Would they find running the country an interesting challenge? (You might want to consider leaving them an "out" if the tedium or constant rebellions get to them, like retiring their characters to NPC status.)

If the players are set on this, perhaps you can persuade them to take a different tack, like setting up a "mutant underground" to protect mutants from the "normal" population and work for greater rights and recognition for mutants - a more benevolent version of Magneto's program. If the attack on Washington does fail, representatives from such a nascent group might contact the PCs for help. This could lead to different kind of campaign, more in the "hunted X-Men" vein, which might be more to the liking of your players.

[Catacomb]

I'm still a little confused here...you said that the PC's were lead to a remote locale in order to minimize damage so what in the name of Zues's butthole were their 'loved ones' doing there?!?!? I get the assault on Washington(Which, unless they are the only supers in the world should fail miserably, especially if you have an uber-villian who would not see this action as being in his best interests, i.e. Doom, Luthor, Dr. Destroyer, Magneto, etc.), but if they are loved ones then why are they at the fight in the first place? I can see if the 'bad guys'(US Gov. in this case) brought them, but if the supers themselves had a hand in it then they shouldn't be mad at their own stupidity. BTW as soon as supers came on the scene in any sane world there would immediately exist some kind of task force to keep up with the strengths and weaknesses of all known supers at least in America, and they would posses the abilities to exploit both. This doesn't mean a catch-all deus ex machina kind of thing(At least be clever and inventive), but it might be a good time to introduce said group. The reason I say this is because once this arc is finished, if they do happen to rule America(cringe), then this campaign is over...they ruled the US sooooo either they are eliminated or removed as a factor in the world as super heroes, but I can't see them going back pulling cats out of trees.

[Rage]

You know they could actually win. Powered People who are anti American Govt coming out of the paint work from both the U.S and around the world. The planes are rocketing towards the P.C's and then The Arab super man bursts through them fuel igniting itself in a suit of engulfing flame ALA human torch.

[gewing]

As others have said. The massed forces of the United States Military should take out almost anyone. How many Bricks even can take autofire 3d6+1 AP, +1 stun? (25mm on bradley, 4 or so to a platoon)

combined arms tactics should shred most supers unless they find a way to make really innovative use of cover.

ANd the classic .50 sniper rifle to the head becomes a serious threat when there are 50 of them within a kilometer.

how about the newish shaped charge round from tanks. Accurate to 4 or 5000 meters(4000 fps) and capable of penetrating about 1/2 meter of steel.

a battery of 155 howitzers doing a time on target attack. 18 shots each leveling anything within 20 meters that is not heavily armored, falling within say a 50 meter square.

proximity fused anti aircraft rounds

Laser guided 155 mm howitzer rounds with armor

against combined arms tactics, unless they are on Superman's level, they are toast. and even if they are, you know the spooks have plans to deal with them. If they don't the campaign needs smarter spooks.


Originally posted by WhammeWhamme
Okay. If there's just the military (read: no superhumans), and you just threw everything at them, then they should win. If you didn't, they're being arrogant and need to be stomped.

If it's not just the military, well...

Don't pull out the 'silly' rules constructs.

You don't need to.

Heck, have them stopped a tel/precog. Might wanna *try* and save your campaign...

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by D-Man
First -- in a world with super beings the government probably has a few on the payroll. If they don't, they probably have access to a number of super beings they feel can be trusted to varying degrees if the need arised.


Yes they would and if I WERE the government (and in my campaign I am) I'd have some plainclothes Supers... no flash... invisible power effects and frighteningly lethal.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by gewing
As others have said. The massed forces of the United States Military should take out almost anyone. How many Bricks even can take autofire 3d6+1 AP, +1 stun? (25mm on bradley, 4 or so to a platoon)

combined arms tactics should shred most supers unless they find a way to make really innovative use of cover.

ANd the classic .50 sniper rifle to the head becomes a serious threat when there are 50 of them within a kilometer.

how about the newish shaped charge round from tanks. Accurate to 4 or 5000 meters(4000 fps) and capable of penetrating about 1/2 meter of steel.

a battery of 155 howitzers doing a time on target attack. 18 shots each leveling anything within 20 meters that is not heavily armored, falling within say a 50 meter square.

proximity fused anti aircraft rounds

Laser guided 155 mm howitzer rounds with armor

against combined arms tactics, unless they are on Superman's level, they are toast. and even if they are, you know the spooks have plans to deal with them. If they don't the campaign needs smarter spooks. This brings to mind a problem that I have no idea if it has been addressed in 5th Edition - area affect attacks that are picking a target hex that a rapidly moving figure "might" move through at the right time for the attack to take effect. It bugs me that military hardware that affects areas just seems to automatically hit the streaking superheroes. Perhaps, a perception roll would be good for the targeting to pick the right hex for superspeed man to go through?

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by Agent X
This brings to mind a problem that I have no idea if it has been addressed in 5th Edition - area affect attacks that are picking a target hex that a rapidly moving figure "might" move through at the right time for the attack to take effect. It bugs me that military hardware that affects areas just seems to automatically hit the streaking superheroes. Perhaps, a perception roll would be good for the targeting to pick the right hex for superspeed man to go through?

Or a perception roll with a -1/5" velocity.
Then the Eqipment could buy targetters to offset the penalty somewhat based on the type of target the weapon was designed to foil.

[FTJoshua]

Again, awesome posts, thank you. No choices made yet but I'll post them when they happen.

As far as the ambush goes, the gov't set out to kidnap all the loved ones to bait the heroes; the heroes were tipped off to this and got almost everyone to safety, but a few stragglers were left behind; these stragglers were then used as bait.

Re: fun. Of course fun must come first. I'm not sure if the campaign is out of control or not. Sometimes it seems like it. But other times it is so rich with roleplaying and storytelling. Now that you mention the fun/game aspect, I wonder if the PC's would actually enjoy winning? They've always been a hard-luck lot and seem to enjoy it that way (the players do anyway; the PC's might disagree).

At the moment, my instinct is to give them plenty of legitmate, in-character, in-the-moment warnings from other NPC's. Then if they insist on going through with it, I needed those first few posts about what I should plan for in terms of security, response, etc. After THAT...

Well, we do have one idea: We were going to bring in one or two other people for the night who like role playing but not combat, and have them play senators/congressmen, etc. The PC's would present their case, and the NPC-players (with nothing to lose or fear) could really hammer the PC's into being specific about their plans. It seemed like an awesome role-playing opportunity, and heck, the PC's might even beg off after five hours of questions they can't answer.

[MisterVimes]

Originally posted by FTJoshua
Again, awesome posts, thank you. No choices made yet but I'll post them when they happen.


Just as a WEIRDLY appropriate aside, if you've never watched Babylon 5, the 4th season (I think) dealt with a revolution against a VERY corrupt Earth Government and how the sides played out... it was very logical... it might be worth it just for the research.

[BlackSword]

If/when things get out of hand, since they enjoy being hard-luck cases then they can lose but not be killed. Escape to a sewer, or some other way out of the situation after the fact. This way now they are hunted and distrusted by a great many people. If a villain is used to help defeat them then it becomes even more of a challenge. How do you get the government and regular people to see that a villain is now pulling the strings when you are seen as the villains. The government will cover everything up and call the players a bunch of conspiracy nuts who watch too much T.V. The villain is now pulling the strings of the government and may start up a 'wholesome' family entertainment hour with subliminal messages. How do you get people to believe in the real conspiracy when you're considered a nut?

If the government is corrupt (which sounds like a reasonable bet since they kidnapped innocents to use as bait), then the players will need to somehow get popular support. Have them be defeated when they try it on their own, they may be strong, but they can't just walk into the DC call the government corrupt show some videos and say see. They need to move the people and others to realize the government is corrupt, except now they may be distrusted and hunted.

[Talon]

I think Lord Liaden is on the right track...this seems like more of a out-of-game issue than an in-game one.

As I understand it:

1) One PC is a loose cannon.
2) To do something about this one PC, the government (the "local government", who is that exactly?) set up an ambush, kidnapping DNPCs ("loved ones", whatever :)) of many of the PCs.
3) Big fight, PCs win, DNPCs killed.
4) PCs declare intent to take over country.

In performing #2 and #3, you the GM sent a message to the PCs: "The government is at war with you and is willing to play dirty." The government acted like a supervillain. Why shouldn't the PCs retaliate? If the ambush was something that the government as a whole approves of, then attacking the government as a whole seems reasonable. If the ambush was created by some sort of rogue official, then revealing that person to be a bad guy should vindicate the PCs in the eyes of the rest of the government, at least to some extent.

At any rate, it seems like you, the GM, feel that they are taking a wrong course of action. What courses of action do you feel are more appropriate? What is the correct way to respond to this situation?

If you feel this would really be suicide, then any PC with Tactics or appropriate KSs should know that. If the players ignore those warnings, it could be that they are dissatisfied with the game and are trying to create an incident that will make it "your fault".

[WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by gewing
As others have said. The massed forces of the United States Military should take out almost anyone. How many Bricks even can take autofire 3d6+1 AP, +1 stun? (25mm on bradley, 4 or so to a platoon)

combined arms tactics should shred most supers unless they find a way to make really innovative use of cover.

ANd the classic .50 sniper rifle to the head becomes a serious threat when there are 50 of them within a kilometer.

how about the newish shaped charge round from tanks. Accurate to 4 or 5000 meters(4000 fps) and capable of penetrating about 1/2 meter of steel.

a battery of 155 howitzers doing a time on target attack. 18 shots each leveling anything within 20 meters that is not heavily armored, falling within say a 50 meter square.

proximity fused anti aircraft rounds

Laser guided 155 mm howitzer rounds with armor

against combined arms tactics, unless they are on Superman's level, they are toast. and even if they are, you know the spooks have plans to deal with them. If they don't the campaign needs smarter spooks.

All this would be fine, but the PC's just got hit with an all out attack to take them down; that should have been as nasty as it could get (on the grounds that 'there is no such thing as overkill, just enough kill').

[Vondy]

From the sounds of it they got hit by a limited black operations strike force that had good weapons, but poor leadership and planning.

A few choppers, fighters, and special operations soldiers, while scary, are a drop in the bucket. All the military will do is say: it would appear they were underestimated. Lets turn up the heat from warm to hi-hi and boil them like lobsters. The problem they have is that they have no contingency in place, and as soon as they take the building over they will have forfeited their mobility analong with the intitiative.

What they saw was nothing. I'd handle them this way:

1. Declare martial law in the DC area and begin an evacuation.
2. Send in an entire mechanized division to seal the area.
3. Call in the entire special forces regiment from fort bragg.
4. Put an entire airwing up for control of the skies.
5. Put choppers with vulcans and hellfire missiles in the air around the capitol building, ring it with bradely fighting vehicles and troops with grenade launchers and man portable rocket launchers.
6. Call in my government super-type experts for an analysis.
7. Use any supers I have at my disposal in conjunction with special operations personnel to flush them out into the open.
8. If that fails I use cruise missiles to force them out by dropping the building on them.
9. Hit them with thousands of autocannons, rockets, and grenades.
10. Call the public works guys in to clean up the red smear.

If I didn't want to make such a scene I might give them the sewers as an out and then fill it with VX gas, followed by napalm, followed by supers in my employ, or I would control their route of escape so I could pick another place to engage them.

If they did manage to break through the lines I certainly wouldn't be so stupid as to have that be my only line of defense. I would use the forces now behind them, and those in front of them, to drive them into a non-urban area where extensive use of cluster bombs, napalm strikes, and cruise missiles could be brought to bear. I might even be tempted to hit them with VX gas out in the open. The problem I see is that people in superheroic settings often assume "normals are inconsequential". That's not really true. The heroes don't have the resources, logistical werewithal, expansive resources, or tactical experience of the armed forces.

If its a matter of the government falling they might even go so far as to push the button. Get the heroes to a fairly remote area and hit them with a small tactical nuke [say 100KT].

One thing the heroes could do, however, would be to control their situation by having one or two of them dig for the evidence they need while the others make their stand. Its still jail time, but it gets them off with lighter sentences, and maybe a pardon.

I'm confused about some things though:

If it was the local government why did the heroes attack the federal government? The feds, presented with evidence, become allies. I don't get that part.

If it was the local government, where did they get that kind of firepower?

If it was the federal government or a shadow organization -- did they just seriously underestimate the heroes, or did they have a lack of intelligence?

[Talon]

When's the game, we want to know what happens!

[FTJoshua]

Originally posted by D-Man
I'm confused about some things though:

If it was the local government why did the heroes attack the federal government? The feds, presented with evidence, become allies. I don't get that part.

If it was the local government, where did they get that kind of firepower?

If it was the federal government or a shadow organization -- did they just seriously underestimate the heroes, or did they have a lack of intelligence?


The initial attack was authorized by the State of Arizona, which used Federal resources. Due to the small scale of the operation, it didn't really hit much radar in Washington. Little ops like this are probably fairly common in our campaign if threats are big enough. Esp. with the downfall of the IMPs, the military has had to step up its internal presence to deter mutants. The Feds are NEVER allies; they are following the will of the people, and so far, it seems a majority do not want mutants around, period. The PC's hope to change that. Using force might not be the best way. That is one of the reasons for their planned "Assault." They are confident if they can prove to the public that they mean to do good, then the Feds will have no choice but to follow along.

The assault team did underestimate the heroes a little -- so did the GM. (Plus Pathos's energy blast was pretty well aimed at the jets meant to do the heavy damage...) But the PC's played well, too and worked as a team.

The "attack" on DC may not necessarily be an attack; it's still up in the air exactly what the PC's will do. They appear tired of the fight always coming to them. They've been kicked around by Senators and Congressmen doing shady things for a couple of years now. They seem to feel they can do a better job running the country, and be sure everyone is "truly free," mutants and humans alike. That's the main goal; they're really fighting for true equality.

However, they are fully aware they can't go in guns blazing. If they can get in without actually killing anyone (which would be miraculous with this bunch), then maybe--maybe--some people will listen. But I still think the approach is all wrong.

(Sidebar: There is a Texas senator who the PC's know for a fact is a mutant, who has been organizing mutants behind the scenes to fight major threats to security, like REX [our "Viper"]. But they refuse so far to divulge their plans to him because he's a senator, and can't be trusted. Cripes, what's a GM got to do?)

The in-game issue is that these PC's have been kicked while they were down for years now. There has also of late been a spate of "higher powers" trying to "teach" the PC's about being good guys. That works once in awhile, but lately it got out of hand (heavy-handed GMing; everyone who plays in our groups also GMs). In turn, the PC's have become frustrated, since they HAVE saved the world time and time again, only nobody knows or cares. (Similar to X-Men I think in that way.) So now they figure (some of them, anyway, the rest are just along for the ride) that they can do the most good at the seat of power because, hey, what's ever stopped them?!

I hope that clears some things up; let me know if there is more I can add.

Also, I'm not sure when the adventure will happen; it looks like it's in my lap at the moment, and pulling together all these ideas and figuring out what's best for A) Fun and B) the campaign is going to take some doing!

[Vondy]

Here's one other thing to consider, however:

If they were able to get the facts to the public and went down fighting in a very public, spectacular way they might well become martyrs for their cause, or a catalyst for a shift in public opinion.

It would be interesting to see the players building new characters who have to live with the legacy and legend of their predecessors.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by FTJoshua
SNIP
(Sidebar: There is a Texas senator who the PC's know for a fact is a mutant, who has been organizing mutants behind the scenes to fight major threats to security, like REX [our "Viper"]. But they refuse so far to divulge their plans to him because he's a senator, and can't be trusted. Cripes, what's a GM got to do?)
SNIP

Drop more clues that the Senator is a good guy. Maybe he contacts the PCs and provides information about the gov't bad guys? His "mutant network" probably has some telepaths and clairvoyants able to track down the PCs.

What are the Senator's powers? Can he or any of his friends resurrect some of the PCs friends who died during the failed gov't attack? "Here, Mr. PC, my mutant network just brought your girlfriend back to life. Now do you believe I'm a good guy?"

If the PCs still wind up storming the Capitol, coincidentally have the Senator be one of the first people they encounter. He might try to talk the PCs down with a "no, this is not the way to handle it, because it will make things worse for mutants" speech. If the PCs persist, maybe he uses his powers to protect the Capitol. This could make the Senator a hero, and cause some people to reconsider the "all mutants bad" attitude.

[DoctorItron]

Originally posted by FTJoshua
The initial attack was authorized by the State of Arizona, which used Federal resources. Due to the small scale of the operation, it didn't really hit much radar in Washington.
SNIP

Maybe the news media finds out that the gov't kidnapped innocent civilians to use as bait. This might provide an opportunity to de-escalate some of the tension. The news report will make the gov't look like bad guys and the public will be less supportive of the gov't. Drop hints to the PCs that they can use this opportunity to either lie low or start a public relations camapign; an attack on the gov't will surely rally the public to the gov't's side and hurt the PC's cause.

There could be Congressional hearings, too. The Governor of Arizona (or whoever directed the attack on the PCs) probably committed some major crimes by using civilians as bait.

None of this will make the gov't and PCs buddies, but it will demonstrate that the gov't is not one big monolithic entity that exists only to go after the PCs.

[DoctorItron]

FTJoshua, please post summaries of the PCs and major NPCs (the mutant Senator, etc.). We might be able to offer even more suggestions for ways to keep the campaign alive.

[MilkmanDan]

Sounds like a fascinating campaign, and you really need to step in before the players COMMIT ABSOLUTE SUICIDE. You have to find a nice, subtle way to explain to your team that, if they move forward, they're going to die. Painfully. For an example, put your PCs up against a 30mm gatling gun (don't have TUV, but I'm guessing 3d6 AF10 RKA minimum, lots of targeting). Unless their defenses are just ludicrous, they'll go night-night even if they take no body.

Sounds like you have a great tone. Keep it going as long as you can.

[Killer Shrike]

Well, unless you are playing in a police state, in the real world it is not legal for US Military forces to take action within the confines of the United States, to protect against police state actions. Thats what the National Guard is for.

Special allowances are only made in cases of Martial Law or general unrest. Remember a few years back when the USMC turned out some units from Camp Pendleton to help put down riots in L.A.? That kind of thing doesnt happen very often, and causes a lot of public backlash when it does.

No state has the authority to call down military force in the manner you are indicating.


This whole scenario sounds like a campaign raging out of control. If you are running the government as an oppresive facist government engaged in a campaign of genocidal violence against mutants, then it seems very heroic for them to destroy said government.

However, its unclear to me why they would go after Congress first. They would have much better luck taking out the Prez, Vice, and Speaker of the House with a preemptive strike before thier intentions were known. The Pentagon wouldnt be a bad target either. Unfortunately what the PCs would find out in a 'realistic' campaign if they attempt to take on the Fed is that we have a highly decentralized government. Among other things, no one has absolute authority, even the Prez. Like a Hydra, if you cut off 1 head two more take its place. There are endless contingencies and fallbacks. The US Gov will not go quietly into the long good night.

The basic idea of appealing to the masses is a childishly simplistic one as well. What the PCs are proposing is anarchy, and very few people want that. No taxes? Great. OH, wait a minute, the government needs that money to maintain roads and communication, subsidize education, agriculture, industry, pay millions of civil servants to process paperwork and maintain general order? Oops. Guess society is on its own. Uh...what do you mean the stock market crashed, hard? No Federal Reserve anymore what? Criminal Justice system abandoned? No more wellfare, medicare, social security, disability? Veterans stipends and disability gone? No credibility in the world market? Huh, the US is an Import heavy country, and now we cant maintain our balance of trade? US companys have to dump thier current inventory as Exports at a major loss because with the total collapse of the US economy money isnt worth the paper its printed on? Wow. Who knew? At that rate, Mexico and Canada would help you build a wall across the borders to keep out all the Americans trying to flee the country. Walled in eh? Whose living in a Police State now? Canada and Mexico would collapse soon enough as well if the US fell, or at least not be too happy for awhile.

Also, Power abhors a void. If the PCs dispose of the current regime, another will spring forth to take its place. The best they can hope for is that in the event that they successfully dethrone the gov (unlikely), the ensuing struggle for power will embroil the world in such a massive war that their transgressions go unpunished, at least for a while.

Also, as far as the US Military's strength is concerned, do your players have any clue just how big the US Military complex really is? Woohoo. They took out a couple of helicopters and a few bombers. Thats like swatting 4 misquitoes in the middle of the Everglades or evaporating 4 drops of water in the Pacific Ocean; in a word: inconsequential.



Personally, and no offense, but the entire debacle sounds pretty hack-and-slashy (but with capes!). Kind of makes me curious as to the average age of your play group; Im guessing late-teens?

My advice is to just let it run its course, let the PCs blow everything up, kill Thor with his own hammer after getting Excalibur from the Lady in the Lake, etc, and hope that the players get it all out of thier system. Really push it to the logical limit of screwed-upness. The post-apocalyptic idea has a lot of merit, though not likely directly because of the PCs actions, but rather afterwards when the nation falls into war both internal and external as the logical collapse of society follows from the actions of the PCs. Eventually Nukes are used, retalliatory strikes are traded, and the world collapses into a new dark age of radioactive existance.

Play up the hatred that the survivors have for the PCs; not because they are mutants but because they are immature simpletons with more power than brains, who misuse thier gifts, proving every anti-mutant activist that ever claimed that they were dangerous to society 100% correct.

Rub thier noses in the aftermath of thier decisions like a dog on the rug. One session, maybe 2 if they are dense should probably get the point across. If you want to salvage the campaign, have the ringleader of the group wake up after a night of restless sleep, and realize it was all just a dream (including the attack in the desert that left a bunch of DNPCs dead). This is a good opportunity to hit the reset button. Deduct a few points of XP gained during the 'dream continuity' and let the players go from there. Or employe some other Reset button technique. If you dont want to salvage the campaign, just announce that timeline closed and start a new campaign with new characters.

Show the players that you will let them play thier characters and do what they want, BUT you will hold them to the ramifications of thier actions. They wont be so ready to run so roughshod over the campaign in the future.



*PS -- As a side note, the thing with the X-Men being persecuted by the government and society; the X-Men were heroic because they practiced restraint and tried to prove that those who feared mutants were wrong about them -- the idea was that though they did have dangerous powers they did not use them for personal gain, or as a weapon against society. The PCs in your campaign are practicing no such restraint. Further, it was never the entire government that was against them; only fringe elements associated with the government, and all of them were portrayed as being villainous, deluded, or shady. Thier opponents in the gov were just another kind of supervillain, abusing thier power to conduct a private war of thier own.

[FTJoshua]

Well put.

The "military strike" against the PC's was done covertly, not with the blessing of the Pentagon, for example, and it was executed by national guardsmen if I remember correctly. Right out of the gate, that in itself probably isn't realistic, I suppose, so it may seem silly to be disussing realism in the first place.

Also, the government has been played as answering the call of the people, who appear to want protection from mutants. But the Brass took it too far and hurt as many if not more innocents in their pursuit of the "mutant threat," which is how the PC's were able to knock out the IMPs.

And, no, I don't think they appreciate the might of the military if brought to bear. One player seemed to think that the loss of X amount of helicopters in Iraq is a perfect example of how technology always fails, has too many kinks, and in short, can't take out a mutant. I personally disagree with that.

Let me also say that all of these opinions are extraordinarily helpful to me in shaping both the coming adventure sessions and the campaign as a whole.

[Elysea]

Wow. A player citing the most recent Iraqi war as a sign of the short-comings of American military power? I can only assume that this player is none other than Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf.

Maybe you should meet your players half way. The Senator from Texas is a mutant? Make the Governor a mutie too. Have them find out about the PC's plan to attack Washington D.C., and tell them to wait. Have them tell the PCs that they are planning on declaring Texas's withdrawl from the United States and giving mutants full and equal rights and protection within their borders. The PCs can move to Texas and live in the mutant state, free from the oppression they face from the current federal government. Mutants will flock to Texas to live there. The US Government will take one look at casualty estimates for invading Texas and waging house-by-house urban combat against a state full of mutants and decide that it's not worth. Both sides build a wall along the border from Louisiana to New Mexico.

The PCs get to be high-placed government officials in this new country, probably the Senator/Governor's personal security force. They spend the rest of the campaign battling supervillains who have come to Texas, keeping the peace among the normals (normals who want to leave the state should be allowed to peacefully; violence by anyone, mutant or normal, is dealt with swiftly) and patrolling the borders to make sure the US Govt isn't sneaking too many black ops teams in.

Just a suggestion. It sounds like your PCs are sick and tired of the current situation in the campaign. Look at their behavior as a sign of how frustrated they are with your campaign world, and indulge them with a major shift in the campaign universe if the players aren't finding the current universe any fun any more.

Just my two cents.

[FTJoshua]

Originally posted by DoctorItron
FTJoshua, please post summaries of the PCs and major NPCs (the mutant Senator, etc.). We might be able to offer even more suggestions for ways to keep the campaign alive.

DAMAGE INC: 700+ pts.
Barbaric; attracted to evil; casual killer; wants to be feared; becomes enraged if disrespected; all enemies of his friends are his own. Very powerful brick, very few powers. 100 STR, 60 or more PD/ED, 16 Damage Resistance Hardened, that sort of thing.

PATHOS: 700+ pts.
Streetwise alcoholic torn between doing the right thing and obeying his killing instincts. 20+d6 Energy Blast, but primarily also a brick. His love interest, Perdida, had her brother kidnapped to lure Pathos to the trap launched by the Ariz. governor.

FELIX: 724 pts
Based on Vincent from "Beauty and the Beast." Normally a pacifist, still posseses animal/feral instincts. High enhanced senses, superleap, 10d6 PRE attack Roar. A brick/martial artist. His sensei and nephew were killed in the trap. Would rather spend his time meditating, but believes he must use his strength to better the world.

JOSHUA: 408 pts
Quiet, reclusive near-vampire. Is trying to redeem himself for a former life of murder and debauchery. Flight, a kick-ass sword with variable special effects, but still another brick. He is trying to prove to his dead father that he is of 'good heart.' Closest thing to a love interest in his life, Pagan, was killed in the trap.

TRACY: 485 pts.
Loudmouth cocky martial artist, overconfident, is beginning to lose respect for himself and life in general. Fears nothing, even death, which will probably get him killed. The other PC's tolerate him, but they have to shut him up on occassion. Low powered brick/martial artist. He owns a dojo, and one of his top students was killed in the trap.

PHARAOH: 600+ pts
Bar owner with a 3d6 HKA AFx5 AP punch and shapeshift. Also trying to "do the right thing." Another high power brick, primarily, who isn't quick to fight but has shown no hesitancy to kill in some circumstances.

SEBASTIAN: 400+ pts
Former Special Ops soldier responsible for that whole Kennedy thing (he was the "second shooter"). Gave up the Ops after that. Totally distrusts the government. Very low power, primary abilities include darkness and teleport, and he can pull guns up out of thin air.

NPCS:
REP. GEORGE DALTON, D-Ariz.
A messenger boy apparently, who first got the PC's to take the bait and go to the trap. Only conversed over secure internet video conference.

FORTITUDE
Ultrapowerful Mentalist who says he "nudged" the Gov. to set this trap, but claims he cannot control minds. He said if the PC's gave up Pharaoh and Damage -- Damage, dead that is -- he would rescue the hostages and foil the trap. The PC's didn't buy it, so Fortitude left them to their fate. He knows where the PC's base is, but apparently did not share that info with the government. In fact, as far as the PC's know, the government has no knowledge of Fortitude whatsoever.

SENATOR BRADLEY, R-Texas
Known to be a mutant to the PC's but who has concealed his identity to the public and government. At one point, he tried to get some of the PC's to help him topple REX, a criminal organization. Pathos called him just before the trap to get information, which Bradley gave him willingly. Some of the PC's trust him at least a little; his words have always held true.

That's pretty much everyone. It was Damage's idea to walk in on Congress. Even he wants it to be bloodless; the problem is, with his disads, he'll almost certainly become enraged and blow the whole thing. He is looking for a challenge, since his Hunteds have proven to be mere nuisances.

PS: If it's not clear, "F"elix, "T"racy, and "Joshua" are all mine. :)

[Killer Shrike]

Thats sounds about like what I expected.

Really, why stop at Congress? Might as well topple the UN while they are at it. Might = Right after all, and with such an "all is brick" lineup, world domination is assured.

In fact, once Earth is secured, they may as well start visiting thier special brand of rule by random violence to the rest of the Galaxy.

[Brandi]

I'll be impressed if Damage Inc. gets through that without being turned into a wet smear on the wall (cause if he snaps they probably WILL terminate him with extreme prejudice).

Amusingly, as I type this Discovery Channel is running an episode of "FBI Files" featuring a militia group called God's Will who plans to overthrow the government and who was funding its efforts by bank robbery-- with bombs.

[Vondy]

At least they'll do some damage before they... become puree.

[William Bushway]

Another question I don't think the PCs have considered is what happens to their survivng DNPCs? As soon as they try to hold Congress hostage, what's to stop the govt from grabbing their DNPCs again to use as bargaining chips?

Maybe its time to introduce an underground mutant resistance group - have them approach the PCs offering to use their resources to ide their DNPCs. From there they can meet the group's leader, who might be able to convince them that their talents would be wasted in a frontal assault. If you really want to convince your group of the Texas senator's loyalties, you could reveal him to be the leader of this group.

The other way to difuse this potential bomb is give them a chance to take on the man behind the scenes - from your description, it sounds like this Fortitude character. Why is he doing this? Why does he want Pharoah and Damage?

[LizardDaddy]

Hmm.

I think a better point is not the stats on the incoming troops or how to make it a better fight but to make the *encounter* more pivotal. The PCs in this case are about to become villains.

Do you want to have a showdown with the US govt? Will that be fun for the gang and will the pcs take the outcome and go "Cool!" and drive on?

Something that might lead the campaign to greener pastures would be players being shown that controlling the country will remove them from being heroes- they'll be despots. Helpers for this:

Savvy NPCs can point out the great responsibility of leading the country, how it breaks some people with the weight of decisions affecting lives etc.

Villains could pop up out of nowhere- Evil, nasty, disgusting villains the PCs have fought before- suddenly willing to help the PCs out. far from being a trick these guys would love to see Democracy die, see a bunch of knuckleheads with superpowers try to run things. After a bit of this the PCs may realize that they are doing things villains do, and that taking over would make things just plain stink.


Distraction - if the players march into congress and declare their intent to take over, have them taken into a closed session with the pres and a few other world leaders, have these guys reveal some terrible threat that makes their US conquest less important. "Whether you succeed in your coup or not, it may not matter. Dear God,... it may not matter at all". Bring the pcs back into the role of Heroes.

If the PCs are adamant, throw normals at them. After bunches of heroic patriotic americans die trying to save their country, aided with a little GM description, the pcs might get a clue that things are going south.

[Talon]

Can you post the heroes too please. :) :) :)

[FTJoshua]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
Can you post the heroes too please. :) :) :)

By heroes, do you mean the PC's?

I want to put a smiley face next to that question, but I can't bring myself to do it. :)

(I can after the SECOND sentence though.)

Current Status Of Adventure: UNPLAYED but coming up, maybe this weekend.

I am currently planning to have Sen. Bradley (the mutant), after doing some research, leak info and evidence to the press about what the Governor has done. She and everyone else responsible will be brought to legitimate justice. Hopefully this will at least stall the PC's for a bit.

Before all this DC stuff even came up, I was planning on an alien kidnapping sort of thing, wherein an alien race travels the galaxy looking for warriors to fight on their behalf as a second race colonizes and destroys them. It would take the highest-powered PC's off earth for a little while, provided the PC's agreed to do it (I won't force them to go).

[BlackSword]

You could also have the rest of the PCs accidentaly delayed while Damage Inc runs into congress making his demands. As the rest of the PCs approach he turns into a mess as depleted uranium rounds provide a counterpoint to his speech. The PCs walk away whistling thinking about other less violent approaches to life and death.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Another option: during the climactic fight after the "we're taking over" speech, a REALLY BIG (TM) explosion tears a rift in the dimensions and hurls them 10 years into the future of an alternate world where they won & took over.

Show them the consequences of just "doing what the people want" without though about 'fallout' -- ie ending taxes, now what's the government going to use for roads, bridges, & military/defense spending? Press-ganged labor? Show them a totalitarian state that makes Stalinist Russia look like a Sunday school. Let them see the grim hate & quiet desperation of the people *before* they're mistaken for this Earth's copies of themselves. Let them experience attempted lynchings, assassinations, etc. at the hands of inhabitants who mistake them for the country's rulers.

Heck, if things work out right, you could even set them up to have to oppose/depose *themselves* -- the "themselves" of 10 years' greater experience & power, backed by a military who serve through fear of reprisal or longing for power.

'Twon't be pretty, but it may make them re-think their own plans.

The end of it may find them cast/hurled back to their own time & place; or maybe a grateful scientist helps them out.

Or maybe the whole "alternate Earth" encounter is the projection of a very powerful mentalist 'Good Samaratin' who wanted to show them "a glimpse of things to come" if they went through with their plans.

Running this over the 4thof July weekend could have a very nice impact, if done right.

"Patriotism means thinking for yourself! Patriotism means fighting to reclaim the freedoms on which this country was founded!"
<I> -- Resistance 'graffiti' found scrawled on wall of bombed-out building in Washington D.C.</i>