Danger International vs Spy or Espionage Hero

[Shaft]

What name do you feel is appropriate for a Hero Espionage supplement?

Danger International has tradition, but Spy or Espionage Hero sticks with the focus on (genre) Hero.

And of course, there's variations on Dark Champions, like Dark Champions Undercover or the like, which adheres to the Dark Champions name, but breaks the (genre Hero) naming format...

What would you like to see the supplement named?

[AmadanNaBriona]

What name do you feel is appropriate for a Hero Espionage supplement?

Danger International has tradition, but Spy or Espionage Hero sticks with the focus on (genre) Hero.

And of course, there's variations on Dark Champions, like Dark Champions Undercover or the like, which adheres to the Dark Champions name, but breaks the (genre Hero) naming format...

What would you like to see the supplement named?
Espionage has a tradition too... :D
As a genre book I'd call it Espionage HERO
As part of the Dark Champions "line", I can see using Danger International

[Spence]

I say Danger International. While DI may have been the old title of the Hero Espionage book, this book isn't going to be just a "spy book". But an indepth coverage of all kinds of espionage, not just big gov ala 007 types.

The use of Espionage or Spy in the title would immediately make people think "Bond" and SMERSH (or something like). While Danger International implies a much broader use.

To me "Espionage Hero" or Spy Hero" = James Bond 007

Danger International = James Bond 007, Our Man Flint, MADLAX, Noir, Gunslinger Girls, Read or Die, Black Lagoon, Nadjica Blitz Tactics......

[Chris Goodwin]

Actually, the title of the original Hero espionage book was simply Espionage. Danger International was essentially the game of cold war adventure: modern military, mercenaries, cops, private detectives, drug smugglers, the Iron Curtain, spies, even some science fiction (a paranoid Invaders scenario and post holocaust). The campaign sourcebook was all about the world as it was on the eve of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and is soaked in the times: Ronald Reagan, Iran-Contra, Miami Vice, Smuggler's Blues, the Soviet Union before anyone had heard of the Russian Mafia, fear of the Bomb. (All of this is why I voted Espionage Hero.)

To me, all of these things are what Danger International invokes.

Man, now I want to pull out that book and run an old school DI adventure.

(Incidentally, DI was our go-to book for everything not-fantasy and not-pulp and not-super, from Old West to far future SF to Battletech Hero, before there was Robot Warriors.)

[SSgt Baloo]

I voted for Danger International. It has tradition and Hero Games™ already has the rights to the name. Erm, you guys do, don'cha? If I wasn't certain that other people's expensive lawyers would descend upon Hero Games™ like a horde of starving buzzards on an overripe zombie invasion, I might suggest something like Double-"0" HERO or Spy vs Spy HERO.

[JmOz]

As I think I may be responsible for this thread in part because of a comment I made elsewhere, let me state my thoughts

First I voted for Espionage Hero. It has a older pedigree than Danger International does, follows the (Genre) Hero Format, and will not be a source of confusion for new buyers

Second it also frees up the name Danger International for a setting/Campeign/Organisational book (yes want all three in it) following a Mission Imposible freelance style team (yes not realistic, but FUN)

[Sean Waters]

I haven't voted yet, although my inclination is towards Danger International (more evocative, even if it does break with naming concepts, and so more likely to be picked up by a noob IMO).

Before I do can I get a clarification? Is the product JUST about spying and espionage, or a kinda Hero: Modern, including the DI staples of cops and mercenaries and so on, as well as secret agents and the more traditional spies.

[BobGreenwade]

I favor Spy Hero, though I could be very happy with Espionage Hero or Danger International. (Dark Champions Undercover, or any variation thereof, would only create even more confusion than the Dark Champions title already does, at least IMO.)

[zornwil]

In a perfect world I would have renamed Dark Champions as I think it's completely misleading, but because of the history of that book I can understand from a marketing perspective and wanting to retain the same consumer why they left it.

I assume Danger International is a subset, essentially, of Dark Champions, and from that perspective I think it would be fine, given the line already is a bit screwy name-wise, to leave it as is and be sure to put "A Dark Champions Book" (or whatever that verbiage is) under it.

[SAVeira]

Danger International.

[buzz]

People...

Espionage HERO? Am I the only one who finds that unwieldy... not to mention too dang French?

Spy HERO. Solid. Evocative. Like a double-tap.

Danger International is a great setting book name, though.

[HewhoisMatt]

I say keep tradition alive and keep "Danger International".

[Edsel]

I still have my old copy of Danger International. I am looking forward to a new book named that.

[Sean Waters]

I don’t really like Spy or Espionage Hero because the whole profession is rather morally ambiguous, and very much a matter of perspective anyway, so the name seems a bit of an oxymoron. Danger International sounds much more enjoyable.

[zornwil]

I don’t really like Spy or Espionage Hero because the whole profession is rather morally ambiguous, and very much a matter of perspective anyway, so the name seems a bit of an oxymoron. Danger International sounds much more enjoyable.
Now THAT is a truly great point, nice catch!

[Shaft]

I don’t really like Spy or Espionage Hero because the whole profession is rather morally ambiguous...

100% agree.

[Supreme Serpent]

At first blush I was thinking "Dark Champions: Espionage", but now I think Danger International would be best.

[bigdamnhero]

I don’t really like Spy or Espionage Hero because the whole profession is rather morally ambiguous, and very much a matter of perspective anyway, so the name seems a bit of an oxymoron.
You mean, like "Dark Champions?" ;)

Seriously tho, good point. My first choice is definitely DI. As a second choice, I'd take Spy Hero over Espionage Hero.


Second it also frees up the name Danger International for a setting/Campeign/Organisational book
While I can see where you're coming from, if the genre book sells well enough to warrant a setting book, I'll be so overjoyed that the name will be the least of my worries.

[pinecone]

DI...I'm just sentimental that way....:)

[Shaft]

Espionage HERO? Am I the only one who finds that unwieldy... not to mention too dang French?


C'est vrai. Tous ces mots qui sont difficile a prononcer le rendent trop dur pour lire le titre.

[buzz]

C'est vrai. Tous ces mots qui sont difficile a prononcer le rendent trop dur pour lire le titre.
Google's language tools imply you're agreeing with me... unless it's not parsing your sarcasm. :)

For the record, I meant the French comment in jest. It's an American thing, I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think that "Espionage HERO" should even be a choice. Spy HERO and Danger International are really what should be decided between.

[Chris Goodwin]

Google's language tools imply you're agreeing with me... unless it's not parsing your sarcasm. :)

For the record, I meant the French comment in jest. It's an American thing, I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think that "Espionage HERO" should even be a choice. Spy HERO and Danger International are really what should be decided between.

Considering the other options combined are less than half the votes for Danger International....

[Shaft]

Google's language tools imply you're agreeing with me... unless it's not parsing your sarcasm. :)

For the record, I meant the French comment in jest. It's an American thing, I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think that "Espionage HERO" should even be a choice. Spy HERO and Danger International are really what should be decided between.

It was light sarcasm. I should have added a smiley. ;)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Google's language tools imply you're agreeing with me... unless it's not parsing your sarcasm. :)

For the record, I meant the French comment in jest. It's an American thing, I guess. Nonetheless, I don't think that "Espionage HERO" should even be a choice. Spy HERO and Danger International are really what should be decided between.

Well, your profile doesn't list your age, so I'm kinda just assuming that you don't remember Espionage!, the second HERO system game ever published, which became Danger International in it's second incarnation.

It has a history and pedigree. It at least deserves consideration.

[Shaft]

You remembered the exclamation mark at the end! Kudos to you! Must rep you when I can...

[zornwil]

Well, your profile doesn't list your age, so I'm kinda just assuming that you don't remember Espionage!, the second HERO system game ever published, which became Danger International in it's second incarnation.

It has a history and pedigree. It at least deserves consideration.
I'd forgotten about that. I had little money and didn't spend much at all on RPG stuff even when I played a lot back then, so I never got any of the Champions supplements back in the '80s.

PS - at least before 87 or something, and even then it was extremely light through the '90s, too, as I was so used not to buying stuff. That didn't change in fact until the 5th edition era, though during the '90s, or around after 87 or so, I did start to pick up a few things.

[AmadanNaBriona]

I'd forgotten about that. I had little money and didn't spend much at all on RPG stuff even when I played a lot back then, so I never got any of the Champions supplements back in the '80s.

PS - at least before 87 or something, and even then it was extremely light through the '90s, too, as I was so used not to buying stuff. That didn't change in fact until the 5th edition era, though during the '90s, or around after 87 or so, I did start to pick up a few things.

Dude! How could you forget it? It was the birthplace of the venerable and much beloved Hit Location chart!

[zornwil]

Dude! How could you forget it? It was the birthplace of the venerable and much beloved Hit Location chart!
Heck, if you never saw it, it's hard to remember!

[JmOz]

I do find all of this interesting as I just bought DI on E-Bay the other day (for $8 including shipping)

[buzz]

Well, your profile doesn't list your age, so I'm kinda just assuming that you don't remember Espionage!, the second HERO system game ever published, which became Danger International in it's second incarnation.
I do. I started with 1st ed. Champions, before E! had been created.

[casualplayer]

Agent of HERO.

[Spence]

I do. I started with 1st ed. Champions, before E! had been created.

I actually have a copy of Espionage! :thumbup:

[Shaft]

Agent of HERO.

The Man from UNTIL. ;)

[casualplayer]

The Man from UNTIL. ;)

That's more or less the inspiration I was drawing from. All the other names sound too Cold War, and anyone under the age of 24 barely remembers the Cold War.

[Thia Halmades]

C'est vrai. Tous ces mots qui sont difficile a prononcer le rendent trop dur pour lire le titre.

I think that's a little over the top, though, don't you? Regardless of whether it is "too dang French" Espionage HERO does strike the ear as being unwieldy - might even be the best choice, as I'm not a big fan of "Spy HERO" either. However, there aren't a whole lot of synonyms that I liked. Hrm.