Power Defense Question

[LadyChaos]

Can Power Defense be bought Hardened? For that matter, can drains, transfers, etc., be bought with Armor Piercing to disregard Power Defense?

The answer is probably staring me right in the face somewhere.

[Tech]

Originally posted by LadyChaos
Can Power Defense be bought Hardened? For that matter, can drains, transfers, etc., be bought with Armor Piercing to disregard Power Defense?

The answer is probably staring me right in the face somewhere.

Wow. Good question. I don't know if I've ever seen an AP Power Drain. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Rene]

Originally posted by LadyChaos
Can Power Defense be bought Hardened? For that matter, can drains, transfers, etc., be bought with Armor Piercing to disregard Power Defense?

The answer is probably staring me right in the face somewhere.

I don't have the book with me right now, but I believe any power that is applied against a "defense" (be it PD, ED, Mental Defense, Power Defense or Flash Defense) can be bought Armor Piercing. In the same way, any defense power that potentially can be "armor pierced" can be bought Hardened.

[James Gillen]

It's also been mentioned that Power Defense (and other special defenses like Mental Defense) can be bought Resistant. Although that raises the question of why you'd need the AVLD option on a Killing Attack.

JG

[Fireg0lem]

You can, just its rarely worth it, because exotic defenses are rare and exotic attacks are low-dice already.

Consider a 6d6 drain vs. a 4d6 AP drain.
Against a target with 14 power defense, both are equally effective. Against a target with more, the AP is better, against a target with less, the normal is better. Targets with Power Defense over 15 are simply not common enough for it to be useful often.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Fireg0lem
You can, just its rarely worth it, because exotic defenses are rare and exotic attacks are low-dice already.

Consider a 6d6 drain vs. a 4d6 AP drain.
Against a target with 14 power defense, both are equally effective. Against a target with more, the AP is better, against a target with less, the normal is better. Targets with Power Defense over 15 are simply not common enough for it to be useful often.

Well put. This gives me an idea for one of my villains who has a MP of Drains. He's one of those villains who will most likely defeat you while you're at full Stun points. :)

[TheEmerged]

Can you do this? Oh yeah. How often is it necessary? Depends on your campaigns -- it's my experience that you're more likely to run into Penetrating on Drain/Suppress/Transfer than AP.

[Tech]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
Can you do this? Oh yeah. How often is it necessary? Depends on your campaigns -- it's my experience that you're more likely to run into Penetrating on Drain/Suppress/Transfer than AP.

I've seen AP Flash attks so I don't see why a AP Drain attk is any different. How often is it necessary? Well, that's rather hard to say. I'd rephrase the question into more of a statement: "It depends on the campaign whether or not an AP Drain attack will be used."

[BNakagawa]

Straight up, a 6d6 drain is probably better than a 4d6 ap drain.

However, if you've also stacked stuff like area effect or affects all powers with XXX SFX, then you're going to get better bang for your buck by adding AP or penetrating.

[Blue Angel]

I built a character with an EGO damage shield. Since there was already a high advantage modifier on it I added AP and Penetrating. It is way more effective.

[austenandrews]

I will quite likely use AP Drains & Hardened Power Defense in the higher levels of my FH game, when magical defenses will be more common.

-AA

[Tech]

Originally posted by BNakagawa
Straight up, a 6d6 drain is probably better than a 4d6 ap drain.

However, if you've also stacked stuff like area effect or affects all powers with XXX SFX, then you're going to get better bang for your buck by adding AP or penetrating.

There are times when you don't want the bang-o-bucks with overwhelming power on the hero. Instead, you want to be sure that the hero feels the effect. In this instance, AP or Penetrating is the trick.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Tech
There are times when you don't want the bang-o-bucks with overwhelming power on the hero. Instead, you want to be sure that the hero feels the effect. In this instance, AP or Penetrating is the trick.

And that's the reason I said you're more likely to see Penetrating than AP, because with Penetrating they *will* be affected (however slightly) unless Hardened defenses are involved.

[Snarf]

As long as everyone is somewhat on the topic of penetrating, I'd like to get everyone's opinion on something.

In GURPS there was a realistic rule where flexible armor (chainmail and such) always let a little damage through, sort of like how penetrating works in Hero. I realize realism isn't the point of Hero, but I wanted to transfer this effect over anyway, just because I thought it would be an interesting flaw for armor to have.

So, does anyone think some sort of anti-hardened (softened?) limitation, that makes all attacks penetrating, is possible? And if so, what would it cost?

[Blue Angel]

Interesting idea.

I would say a -1/2.

[TaxiMan]

What about armor that changes killing attacks to normal attacks? Like chain mail does to slashing swords? I think I 've seen this debated before...

[Blue Angel]

Originally posted by TaxiMan
What about armor that changes killing attacks to normal attacks? Like chain mail does to slashing swords? I think I 've seen this debated before...

So the character's normal PD and ED should apply against the sword. How about add Resistant PD for normal PD only vs swords (-1/2)

[Paragon]

Originally posted by Tech
Wow. Good question. I don't know if I've ever seen an AP Power Drain. Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't see why within the rules it can't (both AP on power based attacks and hardened on Power Defense. ) In routine campaigns, I doubt it's worth it, but I've seen the occasionally AP Transform or the like.