VILLAINS, VANDALS, AND VERMIN -- What Would *You* Like To See?

[Steve Long]

Time for another WWYLTS thread. ;)

Now that CU:NotW is done, I'm staying in the Champions groove and getting started on our long-awaited new enemies book, Villains, Vandals, And Vermin. So I wanted to ask what you'd like to see in a book of new villains. Here's what I'm working with so far:

Chapter One: Master Villains: For the most part I think the CU has plenty of master villains, but there's always room for more. Ideally I'd like VVV to include at least one new master villain, and at most two if I get really inspired. So, what do you think the CU lacks in terms of master villainy? What sort of world-threatening bad guy would you like to see?

Chapter Two: Villain Groups: This chapter's pretty much locked down. It's going to include three teams:

1. The Tiger Squad, official superhero team of China (but for geopolitical reasons often opposed to Our Heroes in ways that make them "villainous")
2. The Crimelords
3. The Brain Trust

The latter two are, like the Ultimates, more or less "generic" villain teams that can fill a variety of roles. We've got enough teams like Eurostar and GRAB that are restricted or "themed" in some way; it's time for a couple that can easily play a part in many scenarios. (Though that's not to say they're not a little quirky; the Brain Trust ain't exactly a "normal" group of villains. :eg:)

Chapter Three: Solo Villains: Just what it says. I have plenty of ideas to fill this one but am always willing to consider other good suggestions.

I'm not sure of the length of the book yet, but it won't be nearly as long as CKC or CWW. Probably closer to EU, though possibly a bit longer. So we're looking at something on the order of 50-60 villains, maybe a bit more.


So, with all that in mind, what would you like to see? Is there a type of character the CU doesn't have yet that you think it should? Have we mentioned someone offhandedly in an existing book whom you'd like to know more about? Let me know! :hex:

[Grimble]

I would like to see a Lex Luthor-like Master Villian. Normal Char Max (Probably pay the increase for above norm INT), Gadgets, bases, vehicles, followers, master plans. A "Normal Guy" with super-human megalomania. I always loved the so called normal holding his own against teams of heroes.

Grimble

[death tribble]

Can we confirm that several of the villains we have only seen pics of are going to be in Villains, Vandals and Vermin ? I am talking about Fleshtone, Entropy, the Mummy like villain from the end of USPD 1 and Dreamweaver (IIRC).

[AnotherSkip]

How about something along the line of inventor villians who supply poduct to the master villians, this is probably where brain trust comes in, but more along the lines of solo villians who occupy the lieutenant nich of power without significant loyalty, providing necessary but odd skills to the main villian. Rogue scientists/inventors and mages/alchemisits who try to provide an independant line of thought or ability to the main troublemaker.

I kinda like hired guns.

[specks]

A temporal villian in the Master Villian area. Someone like Kang the Conqueror from Marvel Comics who not only wants world domination but temporal domination as well.

[Teflon Billy]

Can we confirm that several of the villains we have only seen pics of are going to be in Villains, Vandals and Vermin ? I am talking about Fleshtone, Entropy, the Mummy like villain from the end of USPD 1 and Dreamweaver (IIRC).I'd like to second the request for these write-ups.

TB

[Hugh Neilson]

Can we confirm that several of the villains we have only seen pics of are going to be in Villains, Vandals and Vermin ? I am talking about Fleshtone, Entropy, the Mummy like villain from the end of USPD 1 and Dreamweaver (IIRC).

I like this idea, but only if the characters strike a chord with the author. If it will just be a generic "well, I have a picture - he looks like a pretty standard Energy Projector", leave it for a future author to create something unique.


A temporal villian in the Master Villian area. Someone like Kang the Conqueror from Marvel Comics who not only wants world domination but temporal domination as well.

I second this motion - whether an upgraded TimeMaster who actually travels in time (which could also be a different TimeMaster from a different timeline) or a brand-new character.

[BobGreenwade]

Master Villains: As I indicated in the thread on the CU Update, I didn't really expect a full write-up of Doctor Fang Shen in that book (and you've already implied there that we're not going to see one), but it would be good to see him here. Ditto Dr. Yin Wu. I also second Grimble's suggestion of a normal-person industrialist master villain.

Villain Teams: Even if you were looking for further suggestions, I don't know that I could come up with any you'd like. The only one I can think of is a group who would be a bunch of complete losers alone, almost (but not quite) to the point of being comical, but who have creative ways of combining their otherwise pathetic powers into something quite impressive.

Solo Villains: Besides the pic-only villains from the USPD books (and I'm really looking forward to seeing Entropy), I'd like to see a few reprinted from Digital Hero. I'd especially be oh-so-grateful if one of them was Blue Screamer (DH22). ;)

I'd also like to see at least one comical villain in here. Foxbat, Bulldozer, Pulsar, and El Salto are a good start, but what's missing from this mix is some villain who keeps screwing up and getting caught, but makes deals with the cops (or DA, or heroes) in exchange for information on more serious stuff going down. A brick who overestimates his toughness and does stuff that knocks himself out would be a good start.

There are a few powers in USPD2 that came from my brain that I'd feel really proud to see on a character, too. Maybe a teleporting assassin who works by putting himself into hazardous situations, and using the Trading Spaces ability on his victim. A telekinetic with Telekinetic Touch. A cyberkinetic with the Copy Machine ability (a particular pain in the butt against gadgeteer heroes).

Other ideas: a villain (probably a low-level mentalist and gadgeteer) who believes that all superheroes are hypocrites, and is setting out to humiliate and discredit them all. A master pickpocket and irresponsible prankster who loves to relieve heroes and villains alike of their Foci. A pencil-necked geek with an axe to grind against society and a 'mech the size of Godzilla. A brick or gravity-manipulator who bypasses the idea of robbing banks by stealing them instead.

I'd also like to see at least one, and preferably two or three, from each of the "lists of other villains like this" from CKC. I personally am particularly interested in Andromedan villains, but there are a couple of other lists that I know others would like to see. (I don't have the book with me right now, and I don't specifically recall what those lists are, but I'm sure someone else will fill in the blanks before I can get back online with CKC in hand.)

That's what I can come up with right offhand.

[Kirby]

Master Villain - I think there's more than enough out there, however, if you're wanting a second one, I suggest using one that's already been mentioned, such as Tyrannon the Conqueror. If you want the MV to be from Earth, then the head of the Cult of the Red Banner would be nice. If you want one completely new, bring in an alien of an existing alien race who wants to conquer Earth. Otherwise, I think one more is plenty.

Solo Villains
Foxbattallion - a fan of Foxbat who can create duplicates of himself.

Thunder & Lightning - while not solo, they're not really a group as much as a couple. It'd be nice to see these fan favorites if you still have the rights to them.

Homewrecker - a brick female (based on <350 points) who thinks she's the next top model/wrestling diva/Miss Universe, etc. Weilds a chain with a wrecking ball. Sooner or later she and Bulldozer would meet.

Solo Villains from Enemies for Hire - If you still own the rights, I'd like to see 5E versions of the following: "Ack Ack" McCleary, Betelgeuse, Extreme Prejudice (good lieutentant for Black Paladin), Ronin (though there may be one similar in CWW), Stormfront (heh, just kidding), Trickshot (or another villain with fake OAFs), and Wraith.

Other than that, I'd like to see a ninja. And not like the generic ones from Ninja Hero, but one that may have invisibility to Danger Sense or Defense Maneuver as well as one other special ability. Then the rest of his build could be ninja-familiar. (Though a kunoichi/lady ninja who was a cheerleader in her Secret ID, that would be funny.)

[bigdamnhero]

Aliens. I want more aliens. Apart from that, I like Grimble's ~Lex Luthor suggestion.

[Chimpira]

I would like to see a Lex Luthor-like Master Villian. Normal Char Max (Probably pay the increase for above norm INT), Gadgets, bases, vehicles, followers, master plans. A "Normal Guy" with super-human megalomania. I always loved the so called normal holding his own against teams of heroes.

Grimble

Seconded.

[bigdamnhero]

I's love to see a section on beasts: animals, quasi-intelligent alien monsters, extradimensional insects, superpowered dogs, and so forth. Pop up all the time in comics, and make for a nice change from Supervillain Of The Week syndrome. Probably not enough to fill a seperate Bestiary, but could make a nice chapter of VVV.

Something else that comes to mind is more antagonists whose motives aren't quite as B&W as your typical conquer-the-world-and/or-get-rich supervillain. Tiger Squad is a good example: not really villains per se, but often wind up opposing the heroes.

[Lord Mhoram]

I'll throw on another vote for the Lex Luthor type.

One idea for the master villian idea, but not exactly....combining two different ideas - one from an old Adventurer Club - a supervillian "union" that helps with medical and lawyers stuff, and matching villians with jobs - and combine that with the bit from taskmaster's era when her ran a supervillian training agency.

So the idea is a mastermind that isn't out to take over the world, but provides all sorts of services to supervillians in the world - training agents, matching jobs and merc supers, lawyers, medical - all sorts of stuff. And nothing he does is strictly illegal, he's just training people, making contacts, and providing legal services.
Could be a great thorn in the side of the heroes long term.
That might be better for an Org book though.


Other things that would be cool -

Alien villians.

Someone who is a major proponent of both tech and magic, but not a technomancer - a powered armor with spells perhaps, or perhaps someone who has a classic "tech" style (like a powered armor guy, or batman's utility belt and equipment) where everything is magical instead of tech. Basically looking for a twist on standard archtypes.

[Lord Mhoram]

I'd also like to see at least one comical villain in here. Foxbat, Bulldozer, Pulsar, and El Salto are a good start, but what's missing from this mix is some villain who keeps screwing up and getting caught, but makes deals with the cops (or DA, or heroes) in exchange for information on more serious stuff going down. A brick who overestimates his toughness and does stuff that knocks himself out would be a good start.

I'd second that. We need more lighthearted stuff in the CU.

[Lord Liaden]

Lots of great ideas so far. :)

I'll join in the chorus for a Lex Luthor-style master villain. IMHO the Champions Universe already has an excellent candidate, Franklin Stone of Advanced Concepts Industries. (Champions Universe p. 59)

The suggestions for alien villains also have my support, particularly very powerful ones. My feeling is that the CU currently has a glut of "mystic" villains and great powers, but is rather thin on the "cosmic" side. There are lots of possibilities floating around that just need actualization: Galaxars, Ancient Empyreans, Progenitors, Malvans, rogue Star*Guards, and superhuman specimens from various established alien races.

Andromedan aliens are also a very good possibility. The potential for that region of space is wide open, and menaces of any type and any magnitude of power could originate from there.

While I did say that there are enough powerful mystic villains in the CU, I wouldn't mind a writeup for Sharna-Gorak. :eg:

[Shaft]

I know I've said it before, and I'll say it again: bring back the Idiot King! ;)

[Steve Long]

Can we confirm that several of the villains we have only seen pics of are going to be in Villains, Vandals and Vermin ? I am talking about Fleshtone, Entropy, the Mummy like villain from the end of USPD 1 and Dreamweaver (IIRC).

Some of them, yes. Not necessarily all of them. ;)

[Steve Long]

How about something along the line of inventor villians who supply poduct to the master villians, this is probably where brain trust comes in, but more along the lines of solo villians who occupy the lieutenant nich of power without significant loyalty, providing necessary but odd skills to the main villian. Rogue scientists/inventors and mages/alchemisits who try to provide an independant line of thought or ability to the main troublemaker.

I kinda like hired guns.

Well, in many respects that sounds a lot like Wayland Talos, who's already in print in MC and EU. Did you have something else in mind beyond what he does?

The Brain Trust isn't anything like that. The name comes from the fact that the leader is a brain in a tank. Every setting needs a brain in a tank! :)

[Steve Long]

I think there's more than enough out there, however, if you're wanting a second one, I suggest using one that's already been mentioned, such as Tyrannon the Conqueror.

Well, Tyrannon's already in print in TMW, so I don't want to reprint him in VVV.

[Steve Long]

I know I've said it before, and I'll say it again: bring back the Idiot King! ;)

Not until Chris Avellone writes him up again. ;)

[BobGreenwade]

The Brain Trust isn't anything like that. The name comes from the fact that the leader is a brain in a tank. Every setting needs a brain in a tank! :)I really, really hope his real name is Sherman Abrams. ;)

[Steve Long]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book. It makes more sense for Dark Champions (for which I've created a few such villains), but in Champions a guy like that is just a personality and a presence, and any GM can probably handle that. As LL suggested, you can use Franklin Stone for that easily enough. ;)

Now, a time-conquering master villain... that's something I've vaguely considered before, and it's probably worth some more thought now. Good call. ;)

The suggestion for another alien villain or two is worth considering. We've got one, Valak the World-Ravager, in CU:NotW, but another one or two couldn't hurt.

Thanx for the suggestions, folx! Keep 'em coming. :hex:

[Spence]

How about something along the line of inventor villians who supply poduct to the master villians, this is probably where brain trust comes in, but more along the lines of solo villians who occupy the lieutenant nich of power without significant loyalty, providing necessary but odd skills to the main villian. Rogue scientists/inventors and mages/alchemisits who try to provide an independant line of thought or ability to the main troublemaker.

I kinda like hired guns.

Chapter 4. Villainous Support.

Along the lines of AnotherSkip’s and Lord Liaden’s posts. A section covering the villains and villain organizations that provide a villain with support and logistics.

A gadgeteer inventor. Providing weapons and “super-science” tech to the up and coming mastermind.

A super intelligent “normal” who specializes in mercenaries (Dial-a-Henchman) and so on.

A Lex Luther type who is the CEO of the parent company.

[Lord Liaden]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book. It makes more sense for Dark Champions (for which I've created a few such villains), but in Champions a guy like that is just a personality and a presence, and any GM can probably handle that. As LL suggested, you can use Franklin Stone for that easily enough. ;)

Then methinks ol' Franklin would be good fodder for a Digital Hero writeup.


Now, a time-conquering master villain... that's something I've vaguely considered before, and it's probably worth some more thought now. Good call. ;)

Agreed, but I would caution against making his schtick too much like Marvel's Kang the Conqueror. IMHO Istvatha V'han is close enough to the Kang analogue in the CU. OTOH the aforementioned classic Champs villain Timemaster has potential.


The suggestion for another alien villain or two is worth considering. We've got one, Valak the World-Ravager, in CU:NotW, but another one or two couldn't hurt.

Maybe Valak could use a herald? :sneaky: Or perhaps a survivor of his ravaging bent on vengeance. (I might just dust off Starseer myself for this purpose.)

[Balabanto]

More villains with a lower power level. Right now, I use less than eight percent of published material because it's too mighty.

[Lord Liaden]

More villains with a lower power level. Right now, I use less than eight percent of published material because it's too mighty.

Interesting. I tend to use more powerful four-color types, so if I have any complaint it's the opposite.

[Publius]

Well, if not a write-up for a non-powered villain, what about some ideas for their use in the game? A list of several characters that could serve as a master villain, behind the scenes manipulating events would be cool. Also, what sort of plots will this sort of baddie go for? For instance, I'm thinking that a Normal Char Max character will be the sort to go for manipulating others into performing tasks on their behalf, not by threats or violence or even payment, but through orchestrations that would make Machiavelli proud. It doesn't have to be about stats though. Or maybe that would be best for a DH article...

Or to combine them, what about a time-conquering villain who is perfectly normal in all respects but one: he knows what most people are going to do next. He has been bopping about the timeline, nudging here and fouling there as appropriate in a number of different Identities. Maybe he is not a "villain": in the overall sense but must take the role on here in order to perform some critical manuver of the timestream. But on the other hand, this sounds more like Captain Chronos... Maybe it is but from further "upstream" in time going for a second pass of the era (this time as an outright villain to further manipulate events). Actually, I'd like it to be Robert Stevens-Timmons desparately trying to save his wife (which I have used Captain Chronos for in my version of the CU), that appeals to my sappy romantic side.

I'd like a quasi "sympathetic" Villain myself, master or otherwise, who is set up to be created by accidents caused by heroes using powers indiscrimnately. Something that could be dropped into any campaign when the characters get blaise about their power use.

To blend in the "inventor" type already mentioned... A villain that seems to be a useful addition to the Player's repitoire of contacts, much like the unseen (that I know of) Daedelus from DC:TAS. Someone that makes things for heroes, but is also making them for villains on the side AND has a long-range plan....

[Publius]

More villains with a lower power level. Right now, I use less than eight percent of published material because it's too mighty.


Interesting. I tend to use more powerful four-color types, so if I have any complaint it's the opposite.

Like Balbanto, I normally use lower power types. I was playing DC:TAS before it came out :) My next campaign will be based in the CU and four-color, but there is a lot of room for smaller guys even there, especially as lower tiered "goon villains"

[Lord Mhoram]

Chapter 4. Villainous Support.

Along the lines of AnotherSkip’s and Lord Liaden’s posts. A section covering the villains and villain organizations that provide a villain with support and logistics.

Ummm... wrong Lord. :D

[Blue]

Is there a master shape-changer out there? Someone who can seamlessly imitate others? (Since I'm making a suggestion to Steve, the tradition is that there are at least 3 already in print that I haven't noticed or forgotten all about).

Is there a Moleman type? I'm on the verge of creating my own, just thought I'd see if I should hold off ;)

Everyone loves a villain who collects heroes for his zoo! A capture specialist.

[Steve Long]

Is there a master shape-changer out there? Someone who can seamlessly imitate others? (Since I'm making a suggestion to Steve, the tradition is that there are at least 3 already in print that I haven't noticed or forgotten all about).

Well, there's both Masquerade (CKC) and Morph (UMM, EU). That's not quite three, though maybe I could dig up another if I looked around. ;)



Is there a Moleman type? I'm on the verge of creating my own, just thought I'd see if I should hold off.

Hmmm, not really. I can't say I'm wild about the idea, but it's worth throwing into the "for consideration" hopper.



Everyone loves a villain who collects heroes for his zoo! A capture specialist.

You must be reading my mind. I just put one on my list who's an alien that collects supers for the Malvan arena. Kill two birds with one stone thataway. ;)



I always thought of the Punisher as a badguy, personally. How about a hero who is so on-the-line that heroes might consider him a villain.

Well, we've got Thunderbird in CKC. That's close enough for me; beyond that I suppose you could easily adapt some of the Dark Champions characters for that sort of purpose.

[Steve Long]

Maybe Valak could use a herald?

LOL. Valak's no Galactus, though he's quite powerful. If anything Valak himself would make a good herald to whatever Galactus analog we have floatin' around out there.

That's it!!! A team of Kirbyesque transportation-based villains! Sky Skateboarder! Parallax Pogoman! The Rigellian Rollerblader! Helios the Hangglider!


...OK, OK, I'll go back on the medication....

[wcw43921]

I would like to see a Lex Luthor-like Master Villian. Normal Char Max (Probably pay the increase for above norm INT), Gadgets, bases, vehicles, followers, master plans. A "Normal Guy" with super-human megalomania. I always loved the so called normal holding his own against teams of heroes.



This gets my vote as well. Perhaps a villain who can move through both the Champions and Dark Champions genres. I figure if Captain America can deal with everything from street-level crime to international terrorism to world-threatening megalomaniacs, there can be villains who finance their super-technological schemes and dreams with street-level drug trafficking and protection racketeering.

And I believe I may have stated this before, so forgive me if I state it again--I would like to see a few write-ups for the villains from Conquerors, Killers & Crooks described in the gray text boxes on pages 100, 146, 158 & 215 (assuming they haven't appeared elsewhere). Obvoiusly we can't have all of them, but I would like to see a few--my vote goes for Mantisman, Vesper, and Skylark.

A few more "activist" villains like Lady Blue might be interesting. They may consider themselves heroes, but the causes they support--communism, extreme enviromentalism, anti-globalism, race supremacy--definitely put them against the player-heroes.

[Half Baked]

I'd like to see a female master villain (Mistress Villainess???) with real depth and character who is a both a schemer and a physical threat like Dr Destroyer. One who isn't aloof from the world and the PC's like Istvatha V'han and isn't a spoilt girl with superpowers cliche like Gravitar. A woman with power, drive and ambition who isn't a one dimensional personality straight from the adolescent schoolboy's clichebook.

One who might say:

"When the major newstory of today is how difficult it is for the modern woman to juggle the demands of work, family and a social life I consider it my moral obligation to conquer this nation of corrupt fools! When I can manipulate world governments, juggle a thousand plots and still find the time to destroy this band of taudry superheroes I am doing you a favour you should all be grateful for!

Instead of:

"I had nothing to wear so I thought I'd do a quick smash and grab shopping trip down Rodeo Drive!"

[Publius]

Gee Steve, you forgot the Sanguine Segwayer... He of the Power Amaranthine who navigates the Eternal Void for Gingericus the Ultimate-yet-Ecofriendly-Destroyer.

[Andrew Cermak]

There's a reference to a villain called the Chaos-Beast in the CU Timeline. That's a great name, and I'd love to see a write-up, be it in VVV or elsewhere.

[Shaft]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book.

An interesting idea for the VVV Appendix are Package Deals for higher class Villain Roles (as opposed to the streetwise roles in Predators). It could detail what resources & perks (contacts, followers, fringe benefits, etc...) those villains get when they obtain official positions and legitimate resources.

Some examples:

Leader of Third World Nation (a la Dr. Doom);
Senator/Congressional Representative;
President of the US/Executive Staff member (a la Lex Luthor- please don't turn this into a political thread, fellow readers, but it would be interesting to categorize what the POTUS, VPOTUS, NSA director, Whitehouse Chief of Staff or the like can throw at you should you make the Executive naughty list; Red Skull was also briefly the Defense Secretary, but don't get me started on that one...)
Corporate Executive (Roxxon, Obadiah Stane);
Senior Military Officer ("Thunderbolt" Ross);
City Official/Judge (as I recall the Penguin was briefly mayor of Gotham)
Foreign Ambassador/Embassy staff (The villains in Lethal Weapon II, w/Diplomatic Immunity).

[Kirby]

The name comes from the fact that the leader is a brain in a tank. Every setting needs a brain in a tank! :)
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly comin' to a middle."
-Mal, Firefly

[specks]

I'd like to see a female master villain (Mistress Villainess???) with real depth and character who is a both a schemer and a physical threat like Dr Destroyer. One who isn't aloof from the world and the PC's like Istvatha V'han and isn't a spoilt girl with superpowers cliche like Gravitar. A woman with power, drive and ambition who isn't a one dimensional personality straight from the adolescent schoolboy's clichebook.

One who might say:

"When the major newstory of today is how difficult it is for the modern woman to juggle the demands of work, family and a social life I consider it my moral obligation to conquer this nation of corrupt fools! When I can manipulate world governments, juggle a thousand plots and still find the time to destroy this band of taudry superheroes I am doing you a favour you should all be grateful for!

Instead of:

"I had nothing to wear so I thought I'd do a quick smash and grab shopping trip down Rodeo Drive!"


It reminds me of a GURPS character in one of the supplements I read. I forgot her name but she was a mad scientist who looked like June Cleaver. She would build a death-ray in one hand and bake cookies with the other. That in itself would be an interesting writeup. :D

My mom, the supervillian :eek:

[Sketchpad]

Speaking of Galactus ... how about a cosmic villain of that scale? Maybe a discussion on how to use a plot device villain of that manner?
In addition, any chance for a few older folks in the book? As for newer stuff, how about a few dasterdly duos? Hero gone rogue (perhaps a former member of the Champions)? A mislead kid as a villain? How about a swarm-based villain? Former Golden Age villain/hero? Hmm ...

[FenrisUlf]

Solo Villains
Thunder & Lightning - while not solo, they're not really a group as much as a couple. It'd be nice to see these fan favorites if you still have the rights to them.

Or like I suggested -- they had a kid, who got both mom and dad's powers. Forget thunder and lightning, you've got the whole blamed Thunderstorm to worry about now!


Homewrecker - a brick female (based on <350 points) who thinks she's the next top model/wrestling diva/Miss Universe, etc. Weilds a chain with a wrecking ball. Sooner or later she and Bulldozer would meet.

That is so cool I must rep you for it. Bulldozer finally gets a girlfriend.

[assault]

Is there a Moleman type? I'm on the verge of creating my own, just thought I'd see if I should hold off ;)

Hidden Lands has laid the groundwork for this already, so it would mainly be an exercise in filling in the blanks.

[Metaphysician]

Put a second down for including Dr Yin Wu in the master villain section. Yeah, he got the Hero Plus doc, but not everyone gets those.

[steriaca]

The Brain Trust isn't anything like that. The name comes from the fact that the leader is a brain in a tank. Every setting needs a brain in a tank! :)

True. Which is why one of my villian write-ups somewhere around here is one of The Brain, which is five brains in a mixture of alcemical salutions and blood in a golem body tank. I'm thinking your leader brain guy might just take the name The Brain, which will proably force me into chosing another name when I eventuly do something to The Black Tryangle.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to VV&V.

[Hugh Neilson]

On the note above, what about a villain who has the same name as a previously published villain and wasn't aware of that when he chose his name? This happens all the time in the comics - give them a rivalry over the name, and have two very different characters with the same SuperName.

[steriaca]

Agreed, but I would caution against making his schtick too much like Marvel's Kang the Conqueror. IMHO Istvatha V'han is close enough to the Kang analogue in the CU. OTOH the aforementioned classic Champs villain Timemaster has potential.

Yes. Please bring back Timemaster. Hear is one hook you can use for the new edition of TM.

1) Dr. Timithy Masters was/will be a profesor of history in the Cosmic Champions universe. This has crossover protental writen all over it.

2) Timemaster needs his suit to 'ancor' himself in our space/time. Any sinifigent damage to it will send him back to the future 9where he will 'waist presses time' fixing it and returns for his next atempt).

3) His main focuses is to conquer this time, but he is also intrested in filling gaps of lost history.

4) He is prevented by a time paradox from bringing over the vareous superweapions from Cosmic Champions into this world (well, most of them), so he has to focus on using his knolage here to create superweapions and such here.

What do you think?

[Teflon Billy]

Put a second down for including Dr Yin Wu in the master villain section. Yeah, he got the Hero Plus doc, but not everyone gets those.I'm willing to bet that if you want him, that'll be the only mode that he will be available.

TB

[Lord Liaden]

Well, there's both Masquerade (CKC) and Morph (UMM, EU). That's not quite three, though maybe I could dig up another if I looked around. ;)

Poor Rakshasa. When you're Dr. Destroyer's flunky you get no respect. :(

For your request, Blue, Masquerade would be the CU's Pro From Dover when it comes to imitating others, with the rep for being the world's foremost spy and assassin. Since he/she is a freelancer, he/she can turn up almost anywhere working for almost anyone.

[Lord Liaden]

LOL. Valak's no Galactus, though he's quite powerful. If anything Valak himself would make a good herald to whatever Galactus analog we have floatin' around out there.

That's it!!! A team of Kirbyesque transportation-based villains! Sky Skateboarder! Parallax Pogoman! The Rigellian Rollerblader! Helios the Hangglider!


...OK, OK, I'll go back on the medication....

:rofl:

[Tigereye]

My .02 worth here...

Why not combine the Luthor-type with the time-conqueror type, and/or with a woman? You'd end up with a very unusual sort of villain- I can see one who became evil because of something that happened to him/her in the past (or will in the future?) and who does not want it to happen EVER again...even if he/she must conquer all of reality in the process...

The Luthor-sort can take care of itself- the time-displacement device is a vehicle or OIF Bulky Focus (kind of a "TARDIS" with a working camouflage system, but owned by the wrong side- the villain can escape by running into a broom closet, or a toilet stall, or a church confessional, or a large cardboard box, or a Photo-ur-self booth...)

I like villains whose motives can be ambiguous, and who sometimes completely overpower the heroes, but they can be outfought if you can get into their heads a little bit (know their MO's, psych lims, etc) and spend time actually figuring the villain out a bit. This forces the PCs into role playing, not just "roll playing". (My fave villain? Magneto, of course...:sneaky:) The time out of combat becomes just as important as the fights themselves, if not more so, as the heroes meet the villain for the first time, with or without his or her nasty little molls...each of whom also have their foibles. Evil villains is fun, but it's even more fun when you find out why in the heck the villain is trying to blow up, rob, or take over the world.

I would second the motion to have villains at a number of point levels and genres, including some that could conceivably cross over into Dark Champions.

[Spidey88]

On the note above, what about a villain who has the same name as a previously published villain and wasn't aware of that when he chose his name? This happens all the time in the comics - give them a rivalry over the name, and have two very different characters with the same SuperName.


In CKC, Thunderbolt I (the electric dude in the Ultimates) and Thunderbolt II (the demi-brick speedster) have exactly that sort of antagonism - though it isn't gone into in great detail.

[Sketchpad]

I'd think that a Luthor-like character would range around 600+ points, especially if you give them something like a formidable gadget pool or even a powersuit. Maybe instead of science oriented, they're mystically geared? Or how about an artifical man in place of the real person? An experiment in cloning gone wrong, so now you have Supes and Lex wrapped into one?

[Killer Shrike]

Like many, I can make my own characters, including villains; and I always tweak published characters if I use them anyway, so write ups arent that important to me for their own sake.

What I want is Villains that flesh out the Champions Universe itself via their backgrounds and interrelationships. I want references to other published and unpublished but mentioned / depicted characters. I want a web of plot hooks and story threads that I can weave into a campaign and have it gel together.

CKC does a decent job of this, but I'd like to see it taken up a notch more.

Unlike some, I'm not very interested in aliens, mostly because "alien" -- however you define it (from another world, another time, or just "somewhere else" -- is rarely integral to a campaign set in the "here & now", and if anything can detract from a campaign by taking the heroes away or distracting them from the core of the setting.


For kinds of "Master Villains", I can't recall a Master Villain who is actually sympathetic or basically decent enough but walking a path considered radical or over the edge or just opposes to the mainstream / assumed "right". There is the demon possessed mage from EU but he's not really quite what I mean here. Im talking more along the lines of Namor when he's on an Atlantis kick or Magneto when he's being more noble than egomaniacal (and if that isnt a word, it should be :eg: )...or even someone kind of left of center and "grey" like the High Evolutionary.

Also missing, at least to a casual ponder, is a long-living Master Villain with some kind of "rock of ages" shtick like Vandal Savage or Apocalypse. I mean there's Takofanes, but thats a different sort of villain.


For teams, I actually think the CU has enough villain teams in print. Personally, I find most super villain teams to be ill-suited in their default constituency to oppose whatever given group of supers I have at hand; the match ups are never quite right. I find it easier and more flexible to assemble a group as needed from super-merc types who will work with others for whatever reason; then I can assemble a match up that is tailored to my immediate needs and will be fun.

The only team I think might be a good add is a team of power armored villains, and a group with an Elemental theme. Everything else has been covered pretty decently or else is easy* to do.

*(Elemental themed is easy to do, but hard to do in a way that overcomes the inherent contrivance and still be "cool")


As for solo villains, I think just making sure that all the archetypes and cross-archetypes are well represented across the "usage wickets" checkmarked at the back of the book will be a good undertaking ensuring reusability of the resource.

I would also like to see a good power spread, from 250 to 1000 (or more), with as even of a distribution along that arc.

[Hermit]

Chapter One: Master Villains: For the most part I think the CU has plenty of master villains, but there's always room for more. Ideally I'd like VVV to include at least one new master villain, and at most two if I get really inspired. So, what do you think the CU lacks in terms of master villainy? What sort of world-threatening bad guy would you like to see?


Rough Idea:
* A powerful alien from the Velarian Confederation (and probably a Velarian or Catavalan) who believes himself or herself a god. Perhaps this being was actually an Avatar who went mad, or perhaps he/she was a heresy from the begining. Banished, this being now seeks worshippers on Earth, and worse, some of humanity, believe the claims of divinity.



Chapter Three: Solo Villains: Just what it says. I have plenty of ideas to fill this one but am always willing to consider other good suggestions.

Rough Ideas:
* At least one villain who is a failed heroic legacy, someone who was expected to take up the mantle of one of the wonderful Golden or Silver Aged heroes, and then failed to measure up in everyway possible, became embittered, and now is a villain...and possibly tarnishes the name still.

* A comedy villain based on a fad that the villain refuses to admit has died or a gimmick that however effective, will never be cool. Disco King, Hackey Sack Hitman, or a cat burglar who prefers a wiener dog motiff; he's the character most desperately in need of an image change, and will never ever accept one :)




So, with all that in mind, what would you like to see? Is there a type of character the CU doesn't have yet that you think it should? Have we mentioned someone offhandedly in an existing book whom you'd like to know more about? Let me know! :hex:

Most mentioned in the USPD intrigue me. Dreamwitch, Fleshtone, and others really came to life in the art there and I'd like to see write ups.

[Killer Shrike]

Please please please keep the silly stuff to a minimum. :eek:

[Hermit]

Please please please keep the silly stuff to a minimum. :eek:

I agree with that over all, but I still think one or two more would be welcome for GMs who like a few more lighthearted options.

[Kirby]

I agree with that over all, but I still think one or two more would be welcome for GMs who like a few more lighthearted options.After reading this and then reading a post on HeroCentral that my GM made :winkgrin: How about a hero in the book who has a Reputation 14- for being a villain? The hero (a tinkerer, powered armor, gadgets, etc.) started out his crimefighting well enough and kept low-profile. However one time he captured a villain who had power armor and instead of turning him into the police, absconded with said villain so that he could study the armor. Little did the hero know that a policeman happened to see him and "misunderstood" thinking the hero was helping in the escape. The hero studied the armor and eventually turned the villain in. (The police think it was a back-stab and the villain heartily agrees, because he's a villain.)

The hero stops some more crime and eventually a bank robbery, but lo and behold, there's a power armored villain (Anklyosaur? Armadillo?) involved and the hero takes him away. He forgets to release Armadillo's stolen money and so the bank and police again think he's a villain.

The hero finally sees this "interpretation" on the news and is shocked, but decides to fight crime anyway, to clear his name. When confronted by the police while on patrol, the "flight" aspect of "fight or flight" kicks in and now he's wanted. This could give the heroes a chance to intervene and help the hero out.

PS: For one reason or another, the Hero called himself "Janus" and the authorities and media think it's because he's two-faced to his villain allies.

[Spence]

Ummm... wrong Lord. :D

errrr....:o


BBS challenged?? :D

[Half Baked]

It reminds me of a GURPS character in one of the supplements I read. I forgot her name but she was a mad scientist who looked like June Cleaver. She would build a death-ray in one hand and bake cookies with the other. That in itself would be an interesting writeup. :D

My mom, the supervillian :eek:

Unfortunately this was entirely the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid :(

It's amusing, but the character is still built upon a feminine archetype cliche.

[death tribble]

I'd like to see a female master villain (Mistress Villainess???) with real depth and character who is a both a schemer and a physical threat like Dr Destroyer. One who isn't aloof from the world and the PC's like Istvatha V'han and isn't a spoilt girl with superpowers cliche like Gravitar. A woman with power, drive and ambition who isn't a one dimensional personality straight from the adolescent schoolboy's clichebook.

One who might say:

"When the major newstory of today is how difficult it is for the modern woman to juggle the demands of work, family and a social life I consider it my moral obligation to conquer this nation of corrupt fools! When I can manipulate world governments, juggle a thousand plots and still find the time to destroy this band of taudry superheroes I am doing you a favour you should all be grateful for!

Instead of:

"I had nothing to wear so I thought I'd do a quick smash and grab shopping trip down Rodeo Drive!"

I back this idea wholeheartedly. As an example one idea I had was for a female acolyte of Dr Destroyer. Female babies can be abandoned by their parents in China, so what if Destroyer during his visits to the country picked up one of these waifs and had them raised under his doctrines ?
So you have a scientist villainess. Now suppose while Destroyer is down after the battle of Detroit, said acolyte decides to avenge him. How does she do that ? Well there's all these female babies being abandoned, what if someone took them in and raised them or genetically altered them into an army for the 'good' Doctor ? Or to avenge him ?

[Steve Long]

On the note above, what about a villain who has the same name as a previously published villain and wasn't aware of that when he chose his name?

Well, we've already got Thunderbolt I and Thunderbolt II -- you want another set like that?

[Steve Long]

Thanx for the suggestions, folx! Feel free to keep 'em coming.

Some general responses:

1. If I do a time-based master villain, it will not involve bringing back Timemaster.

2. I don't plan to do any silly villains. By and large I don't care for them, and one person's "wow, this is really funny and cool" is another person's "this is incredibly stupid" -- I'd rather let people use their own senses of humor to come up with slapstick villains that appeal to them personally. ;)

3. I tend to agree with the point a couple people have made that it's easier to assemble solos into a team suited for your campaign -- but the setting unquestionably needs a couple more teams IMO, and we frequently get requests for more teams, so the book's gonna have some teams. ;)

4. Naturally I'll be drawing on the many off-hand mentions we've made of villains who haven't been detailed for content for VVV (for example, I've got the Basilisk and Arachne from CKC 146 on the list). But I'll also be creating plenty of villains you've never seen or heard of before. Best o' both worlds. :hex:

[Steve Long]

I'd like to see a female master villain (Mistress Villainess???) with real depth and character who is a both a schemer and a physical threat like Dr Destroyer. One who isn't aloof from the world and the PC's like Istvatha V'han and isn't a spoilt girl with superpowers cliche like Gravitar.

Actually, as you'll see in CU:NotW, I've taken steps to move Gravitar in that very direction. That was my plan all along, but of course gaming supplements aren't nearly as good for character development as actual comics -- takes longer. ;)

[Hugh Neilson]

Well, we've already got Thunderbolt I and Thunderbolt II -- you want another set like that?

If there's a new villain for whom an old name seems to work. With one already in the system, I wouldn't seek out another. "Same Name Syndrome" seems very common in the comics.

hmmm...imagine a serious, and powerful, villain who picked the name "Bulldozer" not knowing of the existing character by that name.

I also like KS's idea of a hero wanted by the police, and possibly targeted by the PC's due to his "villain" reputation - it was good enough for SpiderMan and Silver Surfer, among others, for a lot of years. Characters with both heroic and villainous traits would also be good. The Tiger Squad sounds like it falls into that category. Whether it's the Sub-Mariner or the Inhumans (heroes who occasionally find themselves in conflict with other heroes), or Dr. Doom (villains with a streak of nobility that may cause them to aid the heroes sometimes), such characters make a change from the "clearly the bad guy" characters.

Maybe the "solo villains" might include a new member or two for existing teams, whether already on that team, a provisional member, a member the team would like to recruit or a team the character would like to join, these would provide some tie-in to the existing characters, making them more a part of a cohesive universe. For that matter, one or more characters who were members of an existing team but left (whether under good or poor terms) would also tie in to the existing CU nicely.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few more light-hearted villains, but I agree that the character should be built so the humor factor either is, or can easily be, minimized.

[Lord Mhoram]

2. I don't plan to do any silly villains. By and large I don't care for them, and one person's "wow, this is really funny and cool" is another person's "this is incredibly stupid" -- I'd rather let people use their own senses of humor to come up with slapstick villains that appeal to them personally. ;)

And no one would have guessed, given your stance on Clown. :p

When I was thinking "light hearted" I wasn't thinking silly so much as not so grim. So many of the villians in CU have killing attacks and are very intence. Just doing a quick thumb through I see lots of stuff like "Enraged at combat", "Enraged at sight of ownblood" "cold Hearted greedy" "Hates superheroes". How many villians do we see with Code Vs Killing? In EU I think I saw one.

I was thinking something more along the lines of Panda & Racoon - whose love story made them more approachable, or Thunder and Lightning (who could be played for pathos, or for fun). Ladybug was thief because she enjoyed the thrill, or Lady Blue the media star villain who never hurt anyone. That was from thumbing through The original Enemies - out of 35 villians 6 were lighter hearted.

To me these kind of characters are great because in addtition to be just opponents they can be foils for the PC; and great for conversational/story type roleplaying.

I don't need Clown, but having some "lighter" villians in the CU would be great.

[FenrisUlf]

4. Naturally I'll be drawing on the many off-hand mentions we've made of villains who haven't been detailed for content for VVV (for example, I've got the Basilisk and Arachne from CKC 146 on the list). But I'll also be creating plenty of villains you've never seen or heard of before. Best o' both worlds. :hex:

Now that I like. More animal-themed villains!

And say, if there's room for any alien villains, then mayeb you could write up either a few of the Malvan gladiators mentioned in CKC, or some of Vibron's fellow Andromedan villains? Maybe just one of each?

[gojira]

3. I tend to agree with the point a couple people have made that it's easier to assemble solos into a team suited for your campaign -- but the setting unquestionably needs a couple more teams IMO, and we frequently get requests for more teams, so the book's gonna have some teams. ;)

One way to accomplish both would be to write up the teams as you like. Then make comments about how one or more of the solo villains could be added or substituted to fine-tune the team to a GM's particular needs. This might help direct which solo villains get included--those that provide inspiring choices for team substitutes. It might give the whole work some added cohesion, as a side benefit.

Of course, ideas for taking solo villains and forming them into teams (with other villains from other books as well) would be great too.

[BobGreenwade]

And I believe I may have stated this before, so forgive me if I state it again--I would like to see a few write-ups for the villains from Conquerors, Killers & Crooks described in the gray text boxes on pages 100, 146, 158 & 215 (assuming they haven't appeared elsewhere). Obvoiusly we can't have all of them, but I would like to see a few--my vote goes for Mantisman, Vesper, and Skylark.See, I knew someone would cite the page numbers before I could get back with my copy of CKC. :thumbup:

As for my own choices, I second the above-mentioned, and add Whirlwind (if only as a good example of "whirling" powers), Tagteam, and Zogoth -- though wcw's list would be just fine by me. :D

[BobGreenwade]

2. I don't plan to do any silly villains. By and large I don't care for them, and one person's "wow, this is really funny and cool" is another person's "this is incredibly stupid" -- I'd rather let people use their own senses of humor to come up with slapstick villains that appeal to them personally. ;)I don't think anyone here (except Hermit) is asking for a villain who's truly silly. My own suggestion was more for a couple of "comic relief" villains with legitimate plot functions.

Regarding teams, perhaps you could have an opening page or two to Chapter Three giving some suggestions on combinations of solo villains (from this book and others) who could form into teams, either temporarily or long-term.

[Enforcer84]

An interesting idea for the VVV Appendix are Package Deals for higher class Villain Roles (as opposed to the streetwise roles in Predators). It could detail what resources & perks (contacts, followers, fringe benefits, etc...) those villains get when they obtain official positions and legitimate resources.

Some examples:

Leader of Third World Nation (a la Dr. Doom);
Senator/Congressional Representative;
President of the US/Executive Staff member (a la Lex Luthor- please don't turn this into a political thread, fellow readers, but it would be interesting to categorize what the POTUS, VPOTUS, NSA director, Whitehouse Chief of Staff or the like can throw at you should you make the Executive naughty list; Red Skull was also briefly the Defense Secretary, but don't get me started on that one...)
Corporate Executive (Roxxon, Obadiah Stane);
Senior Military Officer ("Thunderbolt" Ross);
City Official/Judge (as I recall the Penguin was briefly mayor of Gotham)
Foreign Ambassador/Embassy staff (The villains in Lethal Weapon II, w/Diplomatic Immunity).


That is a cool idea.

[Publius]

After Lord Mhoram mentioned Lady Blue, I got to thinking maybe a few villains that aren't 'villains' at all.
A group of heroes who have been villified by the Press, hounded by the authorities and decided to go ahead and become the villains everyone was so desperate to paint them as.
A villain or group of villains that are like "Teen Dream", completely and entirely manufactured. They do their 'villainy thing' because they plan on cashing in later as "reformed bad guys" or they might just crave the attention. The crimes they perform aren't really that bad (although they might look so and in fact may be designed for that purpose entirely), no one really gets hurt and in the middle of one 'performance', they might even save someone who would have otherwise gotten hurt. Combine it with a news crew that just "happens" to follow them around and youhave a reality TV series in the making.
I still like the "accidentals" a few baddies that can be thrown in when the heroes get a little sloppy. Maybe a team of such individuals called the Accidentals.
Just a few ideas. Other than that maybe some Terrorist themed villains. You don't want to get too topical, but there are a lot of nasty folks out there.

[Hermit]

I don't think anyone here (except Hermit) is asking for a villain who's truly silly.

Well, just one little one. ;) But yes, good point. Light hearted doesn't have to equate silly.



Regarding teams, perhaps you could have an opening page or two to Chapter Three giving some suggestions on combinations of solo villains (from this book and others) who could form into teams, either temporarily or long-term.

I like this one. I remember some villains in CKC having mention in the campain use about how they could join up in GRAB or other groups. Suggestions like that are always welcome even if you don't use them because it stresses their niche by showing who they'd fit in with.

[Lord Mhoram]

After Lord Mhoram mentioned Lady Blue, I got to thinking maybe a few villains that aren't 'villains' at all.[LIST].

I like your ideas. And I agree - I think the base of my desire are "villians" that can be as much foils for the PCs as antogonists. Having a villian the PC thinks they can reform can lead to huge amounts of great playing. :)

[Enforcer84]

I like your ideas. And I agree - I think the base of my desire are "villians" that can be as much foils for the PCs as antogonists. Having a villian the PC thinks they can reform can lead to huge amounts of great playing. :)
I've always admired Cateran for her huge...Role Playing potential.

[Lord Mhoram]

I've always admired Cateran for her huge...Role Playing potential.

:slap:

[Enforcer84]

:slap:
:angel:

[Shaft]

The Brain Trust isn't anything like that. The name comes from the fact that the leader is a brain in a tank. Every setting needs a brain in a tank! :)

400 quatloos on the new team.

[Major Tom]

400 quatloos on the new team.


Ooooo... looks like we've got a TOS Trekkie in our midst.


Major Tom :D

[GrooveD70]

I would like to see a Lex Luthor-like Master Villian. Normal Char Max (Probably pay the increase for above norm INT), Gadgets, bases, vehicles, followers, master plans. A "Normal Guy" with super-human megalomania. I always loved the so called normal holding his own against teams of heroes.

Grimble

Definately! It would be great to include tips on running him and his minions. The Champs U needs a normal that is nigh unbeatable because of his resources and intelligence. You know, to inspire the bricks out thier to go "if I ever get my hands on that puny....! :ugly:

[GrooveD70]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book. It makes more sense for Dark Champions (for which I've created a few such villains), but in Champions a guy like that is just a personality and a presence, and any GM can probably handle that. As LL suggested, you can use Franklin Stone for that easily enough. ;)


I don't think I really need a "write up" per se. I agree that the character itself would be easy to make or we could use Stone. What I could use is some pro advice on how to make this type of villian work in my Champs game.

I mean, Lex goes up against Superman! :eek:

I guess I would like to see tips on using a character like this as a corporate villian or a politician (Lex as president?) I would like to have this element in my game but never tried it because I can't figure out how to make it work. (A good topic for the boards perhaps?) The stats for a villain like this doesn't really matter cause once the brick gets ahold of him its over.

[Spence]

And no one would have guessed, given your stance on Clown. :p

When I was thinking "light hearted" I wasn't thinking silly so much as not so grim. So many of the villians in CU have killing attacks and are very intence. Just doing a quick thumb through I see lots of stuff like "Enraged at combat", "Enraged at sight of ownblood" "cold Hearted greedy" "Hates superheroes". How many villians do we see with Code Vs Killing? In EU I think I saw one.

I was thinking something more along the lines of Panda & Racoon - whose love story made them more approachable, or Thunder and Lightning (who could be played for pathos, or for fun). Ladybug was thief because she enjoyed the thrill, or Lady Blue the media star villain who never hurt anyone. That was from thumbing through The original Enemies - out of 35 villians 6 were lighter hearted.

To me these kind of characters are great because in addtition to be just opponents they can be foils for the PC; and great for conversational/story type roleplaying.

I don't need Clown, but having some "lighter" villains in the CU would be great.

In that light I agree 100%. I always had to modify the published villains to be more silver/bronze and always just assumed the high killer ratio was from iron age contamination. But I would like to see more villains who abhor killing and are villains for the thrill, oneupmanship, or just plain non-lethal greed.

[Spence]

After Lord Mhoram mentioned Lady Blue, I got to thinking maybe a few villains that aren't 'villains' at all.
A group of heroes who have been villified by the Press, hounded by the authorities and decided to go ahead and become the villains everyone was so desperate to paint them as.


--snip--

Just a few ideas. Other than that maybe some Terrorist themed villains. You don't want to get too topical, but there are a lot of nasty folks out there.

Great idea. Or maybe they don't turn to the dark side and like Spidey (back in the day) still try to fight the good fight. Even while hunted by the very people they protect.


Or how about a villain with a split personality and dual forms. A female hero that transforms into a extremely nasty villain. With neither version aware of the other.

[bigdamnhero]

Or how about a villain with a split personality and dual forms. A female hero that transforms into a extremely nasty villain. With neither version aware of the other.
Been watching Heroes, have we? ;)

[SKJAM!]

I'd like to cast my vote for a couple of groups that could probably use the recycling:

The Flashmen: Fake "superheroes" who are just in it for the money and fame, and have no compunctions about doing dirty deeds to look good.

The Posse: Killer vigilantes who are more towards the Champs power level than Dark Champions--they cross the lines that true blue heroes shouldn't.

[Lord Liaden]

In relation to gathering solo villains into a villain team: As demonstrated on Scott Bennie's Build Me A Villain Team (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49210) thread, the Champions Universe is rather lacking in master villains (first or second tier) who are psychologically stable and rational enough to lead a team for more than a brief period without straining credibility. I suggest keeping that in mind when designing some of these new villains. :)

[assault]

I guess I would like to see tips on using a character like this as a corporate villian or a politician (Lex as president?) I would like to have this element in my game but never tried it because I can't figure out how to make it work. (A good topic for the boards perhaps?) The stats for a villain like this doesn't really matter cause once the brick gets ahold of him its over.

This would be a worthwhile topic for discussion. We should establish a separate thread for it, though.

I intend my Golden Age game to be fairly supervillain free, which means I will need to use a lot of mad scientists and "Dick Tracy villains". Any hints on running such anyone can provide would be welcome.

I'm planning on looting Pulp Hero for ideas, obviously, plus some direct swipes from the source material... :whistle:

[Steve Long]

400 quatloos on the new team.

500 quatloos on Team Foxbat!

[Half Baked]

Actually, as you'll see in CU:NotW, I've taken steps to move Gravitar in that very direction. That was my plan all along, but of course gaming supplements aren't nearly as good for character development as actual comics -- takes longer. ;)

That's good to hear Steve, but one or two more would be great ;)

[Steve Long]

D'oh! It hit me yesterday that I already have access to a master villain I've wanted to revamp but haven't had the opportunity: Sunburst. So I'll do him and a couple of other Project-created followers. Problem solved. ;)

[Grimble]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book. It makes more sense for Dark Champions (for which I've created a few such villains), but in Champions a guy like that is just a personality and a presence, and any GM can probably handle that. As LL suggested, you can use Franklin Stone for that easily enough. ;)

I don't really understand why a Luthor type would fit Dark Champs better. Are you saying Superman would be better in Dark Champs, too? I'm not looking for just a rich guy with a bunch of thugs. I'm looking for a rich guy with lots of thugs, bases, vehicles, WMDs, World Domination plans and gadgets galore. Someone to scare and infuriate a team of PCs. He's also have many contacts and favors owed (Usually through blackmail or intimidation).

I've all ready built a Luthor type into my campaign (Mr. Perfect). He has LOTS of points. I was really hoping to see how you would build one to see where I could hve saved points and/or things I missed.

I don't think you give the Evil Mastermind villian enough credit, Steve.


Grimble

[name_tamer]

D'oh! It hit me yesterday that I already have access to a master villain I've wanted to revamp but haven't had the opportunity: Sunburst. So I'll do him and a couple of other Project-created followers. Problem solved. ;)

:celebrate :thumbup: :rockon:

[death tribble]

On the subject of old villains looking for a come back, Rainbow Archer.

Now this team thing. Well I had an idea for a boss and the lieutenant but got no further.
The boss is someone who has read that list If I was the Overlord/bad guy etc and has taken the idea to heart. He has been working on taking over the world for years because he believes he can do a better job than other people and whatever form of government they use. He's intelligent and has the wisdom to go with it. Other than that he's normal and prefers to talk rather than fight. He is African American. Think Morgan Freeman smiling benignly as a baddie and you have the general idea.

The trusted lieutenant is the literal power behind the throne. A telekinetic but with an upper limit of around STR 35. However it is the versatility of the power. Force walls and stifling the air supply to a number of people at the same time for example and area effect.
As an illustration, recall the scene in the film the X-Men when Magneto is confronted by the police at the railway station. The police once tried to arrest the boss. The lieutenant walked out of the building first and kept all the police officers from moving or firing so that they were motionless. The boss came out got into a car with the lieutenant and calmly were driven off as police barricades were delicately moved aside to allow passage.
The lieutenant is oft called Darth because of using the choking effect like Darth Vader did in the original Star Wars.
Usually seen at the side of the boss, she is a direct contrast as she is Caucasion, just over 5 feet and wearing a ankle length dress. She is usually silent and her quarters are very spartan.
Woe betide anyone threatening the boss as she is fanatically loyal to him.
Other than that she is a mystery. Nearly 30 years previous the boss was discussing with a colleague the ideal lieutenant. He said that he needed to mould them himself but where could he find such a person who was ideal for the task ? Several months later a 12 year old girl appears at the boxing gym where the boss is and asks to see him. When he asks why, she replies that he sent for her. And then recites what he said to his colleague several months before. She also displayed a few minor TK tricks. He took her in and moulded the trusted lieutenant. She has been with him ever since going through education in schools and on the streets. And as such is his own personal WMD. There's no sexual tension between the two although she loves him like a father.
The lieutenant is often seen with the boss's agents as their de facto leader.
Again they have been brought through the 'If I was the Overlord' list as well.

Because of the scale of what the lieutenant can do they are more Champions than Dark Champions characters.
I did not get more villains for the team as I had thought the boss would employ villains and supervillains as fitted his needs at the time. They might conform to stereotypes whilst he and the lieutenant did not.

[death tribble]

And yes I would like to see Sunburst as well.

[Lord Liaden]

D'oh! It hit me yesterday that I already have access to a master villain I've wanted to revamp but haven't had the opportunity: Sunburst. So I'll do him and a couple of other Project-created followers. Problem solved. ;)

:bounce:

Wouldn't you know, Sunburst came up here just recently. May I humbly offer a few suggestions: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1258865

Plus a request for the return of Ray. Every master villain needs a loyal, powerful psychopathic minion. :D

[Siberian Tiger]

I'd like to see
1) A few state-sponsored supers from "enemy states" e.g. North Korea, Saddam's Iraq, Cuba etc
2) A team of Golden or Silver Age villains and their legacies - along the vein of DC's Injustice Society
3) One standard super-hero genre is the human (normally an American) picked to represent Earth in the interstellar law enforcement agency e.g. Green Lantern / Nova. How about a human selected to join an intergalactic criminal network
4) More low level "one-trick" villains similar to much of Spiderman's rogues gallery i.e Vulture, Rhino, Electro
5) A "deadly force" vigilante-hero team
6) Some supers believed to be on the side of evil but really misunderstood / victim of circumstances / have a secret mission that no-one understands
7) (neo-) Nazi villains
8) Products of the Soviet Union's super-human programme - possibly working for the Russian mafiya
9) Include this as a vote for a Lex Luthor type villain
10) And other villains that cannot easily be beaten by might
11) And another vote for Project Sunburst
12) And some deadly, dark counterparts from a parallel universe...
13) What Vampires are there in the Champions Universe

[Steve Long]

I don't really understand why a Luthor type would fit Dark Champs better. Are you saying Superman would be better in Dark Champs, too? I'm not looking for just a rich guy with a bunch of thugs. I'm looking for a rich guy with lots of thugs, bases, vehicles, WMDs, World Domination plans and gadgets galore. Someone to scare and infuriate a team of PCs. He's also have many contacts and favors owed (Usually through blackmail or intimidation).

I've all ready built a Luthor type into my campaign (Mr. Perfect). He has LOTS of points. I was really hoping to see how you would build one to see where I could hve saved points and/or things I missed.

I don't think you give the Evil Mastermind villian enough credit, Steve.


I'm giving him more than enough credit. I'm saying he's more appropriate to write up in full for Dark Champions because of the power level differences between DC and Champions characters. In Champions a guy like that is just a personality; he doesn't need a writeup. By way of analogy, Hudson City needs info on the sewer system because DC-type characters might have to use the sewers from time to time; MC and VB don't bother with such information because more four-colored superpowered heroes rarely do that sort of thing.

Nor do I have room in this book to detail hordes of minions, gadgets, bases, and other such stuff. Besides which, we've got plenty in other books that you can easily adapt to whatever GM-created personality you want to give a guy like this.

In light of all this, and given that I have limited space and limited time, creating a master villain like this simply isn't practical for VVV.

[Steve Long]

Plus a request for the return of Ray.

Sorry, no Ray. Sunburst will have some super-underlings, but Ray is not one of them.

[Super Squirrel]

Master Villains:
I'll second the notion of a Lex Luther kind of bad guy. We need someone unaffiliated with groups like VIPER or DEMON because it is beneath him. He must have no powers of his own and uses his genius to make himself a high powered baddie.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a Master Villain that runs his own country. It is a villain who once succeeded and is enjoying in his victory before he takes that next step to a neighboring country or the world. This and the one above could be connected but it isn't a requirement.

Finally, it won't happen, but I can't go buy without mentioning it. I'd love to see a "Super Squirrel" style villain. The powers are almost a cheesy as the origin itself. But at the same time, the vilain isn't a complete and total loon like foxbat.

The concept behind Super Squirrel, in case you repressed the memory, is that he discovered the ancient text of the squirrel that revealed secrets squirrels had hidden from the world. The squirrels decided to follow him as only Super Squirrel could lead them to total global domination.

Again, it doesn't have to be Super Squirrel but something along those lines. :)

[bigdamnhero]

I'm giving him more than enough credit. I'm saying he's more appropriate to write up in full for Dark Champions because of the power level differences between DC and Champions characters. In Champions a guy like that is just a personality; he doesn't need a writeup. By way of analogy, Hudson City needs info on the sewer system because DC-type characters might have to use the sewers from time to time; MC and VB don't bother with such information because more four-colored superpowered heroes rarely do that sort of thing.

Nor do I have room in this book to detail hordes of minions, gadgets, bases, and other such stuff. Besides which, we've got plenty in other books that you can easily adapt to whatever GM-created personality you want to give a guy like this.
I agree there's not much point in a full-page stat write up for someone whose stats are all normal. But would you consider a brief summary stat block ala Everyman, followed by a page or two of text on his personality, resources, etc? It seems what would be useful for a villain like this is not stats and details on minions, bases, etc, but advice/guidance on how to run a non-superpowered villain in a Champions campaign. It would be a little out of format compared to the other villain write-ups, but I don't think anyone here would compain.

[Lord Liaden]

Sorry, no Ray. Sunburst will have some super-underlings, but Ray is not one of them.

:slap:

Ah, well...

[Siberian Tiger]

And how about some updates from the more respectable characters from European Enemies
- Black Druid
- Floodgate
- Mammoth
- Inquisition
- Carpathia
- Argent Anarky

[Hermit]

Sunburst? All Right!:)

[BobGreenwade]

And how about some updates from the more respectable characters from European Enemies
- Black Druid
- Floodgate
- Mammoth
- Inquisition
- Carpathia
- Argent AnarkyI don't see how you can call Mammoth and Inquisition "respectable" while leaving off Doppleganger (who I've always thought would be a good addition to Eurostar).

[Supreme Serpent]

Pythias Pomegranate and his Ubermachine? :)

[BobGreenwade]

Pythias Pomegranate and his Ubermachine? :)Ah, those halcyon days.... :thumbup: The name is probably not in DOJ's control as intellectual property, but I for one would be very happy to see Pythias Pomegranate (or however it was spelled) appear again. Same for Dr. Lirby Koo (or Kirby Loo, or whatever).

[Kirby]

Same for Dr. Lirby Koo (or Kirby Loo, or whatever).Why do you want to see my toilet? :confused:

:D

Though, the Lirby Koo/Kirby Loo was an interesting background character, it would have been nice to have seen a write-up on him (if there was one on Loo, I was nevery *privy* to it).

[Steve Long]

There will be no updates of any European Enemies characters. ;) And aside from Sunburst, the only "updated" character, if you want to consider it that at all, is Plague -- and that's really just a case of "same powers, same name" AFAIK right now.

I vaguely considered some sort of "villain/thug creator" type of character, but decided it didn't "feel" right. A character like that would work better as the focus of an adventure, perhaps an HPA or something. In the meantime we can just settle for good ol' Teleios. :eek:

[Enforcer84]

D'oh! It hit me yesterday that I already have access to a master villain I've wanted to revamp but haven't had the opportunity: Sunburst. So I'll do him and a couple of other Project-created followers. Problem solved. ;)
That just made some people very happy to read I'll bet.

[FenrisUlf]

And aside from Sunburst, the only "updated" character, if you want to consider it that at all, is Plague -- and that's really just a case of "same powers, same name" AFAIK right now.

But isn't there already a Plague in the Champs-verse? I seem to recall an illo of some guy in armor and accompanied by rats, killing some random passerby in the USPD. It was in Body Control powers, I believe.

[steriaca]

First, I want to apologise for mentioning Timemaster. I realise now that DOJ proably dosen't own the charater anymore. And if thay did, Mr. Long shurly is not intrested in giveing him an update/makeover. I myself as a fan of "why create new when we can just borrow from the old and remake him somehow" school of updating.

I also must apologise right now that my spelling is not at it's best today.

I am happy that Sunburst is geting a redo. Of course, it helps that Project: Sunburst was mentioned several times in other Champion suplments (or something like that).

As for what I want to see in this book...well, I must state the "why create new". I do want more old charaters updated (prehaps with a can of paint and some of that old Steve Long magic). Of course, the wited up will royaly suck if Mr. Long dosen't feal anything for the charater.

I agree that the Champions Universe needs a few more 'nice guy' villians. I don't mean more silly loons like Foxbat (please...one Foxbat is enougth). But, instead, some more Lady Blue type villians. Or, prehaps a villian who will rob and rampage, but will draw the line at killing. Which reminds me of Threebooter, who is a sereous villian with a funny name and odd power (he has three legs). Of course, he does have a sence of humor. Prehaps some more villians like him.

As for groups...
1) A group of pro-mutant 'terroists' lead (controled) by Holocoast to be his fist when he eventuly takes over the United States. Unbenounced to them, Holocoast realy dosen't cair for mutant rights, but wants to use the movement to get into power.
2) Since your going to use some of thoes animal names anyways, may I sergest a villian group named The Managerie.

As for single villians...
1) I would LOVE to see Mr. Long create a Nekojin (especaly a rather 'low-level' one who is an Malvan Gladiator). Of course, that would also confirm that Kayla is 'real' in the Champions Universe. But my guess is a swift 'no'.
2) I love the ideal of the Malvan Gladiator Finder guy. Go for it, Mr. Long.
3) More aliens, more mutants, and more hi-tech people.

As for master villians...
1) I would love to see a Lex Luthor type guy...but NOT the type we have running in comics NOW. I want the Luthor guy from the Silver Age of comics...a wicked inventor and crinimal mastermind who is willing to kill a million people just to prove that one of his inventions works.
2) Is Lord Dire being updated for Champions Of The North? Yes, a kinder, gentler Mastermind.

[Hugh Neilson]

Sunburst? All Right!:)

Agreed. Chalk me up as another who misses Ray, however.

[Spence]

Been watching Heroes, have we? ;)

Hey? I thought dinner knives were supposed to be blunt.


:rolleyes:

[Lord Liaden]

And how about some updates from the more respectable characters from European Enemies
- Black Druid
- Floodgate
- Mammoth
- Inquisition
- Carpathia
- Argent Anarky

Well, we do have these: http://surbrook.devermore.net/revisedhero/herorev.html

Personally I was always partial to the Huntsman of the Black Forest. Most of the EE characters really were rather lame, though, as Susano admirably demonstrates on that website.

OTOH I'd enjoy revisiting some of the crew from Enemies: The International File. There were a number of interesting concepts in that book. And I'm always up for more global baddies.

[TheQuestionMan]

I created a Growth Brick just so I could romance Carpathia.

Ahhh! Those were the days.

QM

[Steve Long]

But isn't there already a Plague in the Champs-verse? I seem to recall an illo of some guy in armor and accompanied by rats, killing some random passerby in the USPD. It was in Body Control powers, I believe.

Yeah, that's the one, though there are no rats -- USPD 38 is the picture.

[Peregrine]

Rough Idea:
* At least one villain who is a failed heroic legacy, someone who was expected to take up the mantle of one of the wonderful Golden or Silver Aged heroes, and then failed to measure up in every way possible, became embittered, and now is a villain...and possibly tarnishes the name still.


Seconded!

[Kirby]

Yeah, that's the one, though there are no rats -- USPD 38 is the picture.Hmm, my copy seems to show three rats observing, though hardly a plague of rats. :snicker:

While a few of us have mentioned the fallen hero or the hero mistaken for a villain, there's also the option of the villain posing as a hero. If I recall correctly (and I believe it was mentioned here), the old Allies book contained one or two teams of "heroes" that were truly villains as well as an individual who lived as both a hero and villain.

[assault]

there's also the option of the villain posing as a hero.

Invictus does that.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd like to see a swarm-type character. Perhaps an insect being that controls swarms of bees and other insects. The old Marvel character Swarm (himself a hive intelligence of bees wrapped around a human skeleton) would be a good example.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, Steve mentioned that he's updating Hornet. Maybe that will include insect-swarm-control powers. Making a villain actually made up of insects might prompt accusations of blatant Swarm ripping-off, though.

Of course we already have a rat-controlling villain, The Lord of Rats from Champions Worldwide.

[death tribble]

If Steve is considering a 'nice guy villain' type was not Jessie James supposed to be this ? Wouldn't harm you if you fought on the side of the Confederacy ?

Now in England there is the romanticism of the Highwayman who would be polite while he robbed you and was especially curteous to a lady if he held her up. He was also supposed to be well dressed.

There was a pirate captain as well called Bartholomew Diaz (IIRC) who behaved civilly towards his opponents and once tried to get a priest to join his crew to administer to them. The priest refused but was unharmed.

Is this what we mean ?

[Kirby]

If Steve is considering a 'nice guy villain' type was not Jesse James supposed to be this ? Wouldn't harm you if you fought on the side of the Confederacy ?Legend says Jessie James shot a man in his sleep for snoring too loud. I don't think that's a 'nice guy villain.'

YMMV :D

[rjcurrie]

Legend says Jessie James shot a man in his sleep for snoring too loud. I don't think that's a 'nice guy villain.'

YMMV :D

Hey, there's a limit to what even a nice guy can take. :D

[Kirby]

I think you're thinking about John Wesley Harden.I was actually thinking about Billy the Kid! So ha! Shows you! :nya: Though, Billy the Kid shooting someone for snoring is a myth, because it was really -you'll never guess- John Welsey Harden who did it!

[pause]

Oh. :o Nevermind. Carry on. Back to our thread.

:D


(I'm very glad that I didn't put the recent theory that Billy may have been a female in disguise and saying it was Jesse James. :whew: )

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Humorous villains for lighter campaigns.

This just occurred to me about an hour ago: maybe the "Campaign Use" section for each character can include options for how to make the character lighter or comical, as well as how to make him darker. Changes in Powers, Disadvantages, and so forth can often do the trick.

(And a side note on comedy: sometimes comedy isn't just about how incompetent someone is, but how incredibly over-competent he is. Take Lord Bowler's tracking skill on The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr., or Agent 0's disguise skill on the revived Get Smart with Andy Dick as good examples of this.)

[Enforcer84]

Re: Humorous villains for lighter campaigns.

This just occurred to me about an hour ago: maybe the "Campaign Use" section for each character can include options for how to make the character lighter or comical, as well as how to make him darker. Changes in Powers, Disadvantages, and so forth can often do the trick.

(And a side note on comedy: sometimes comedy isn't just about how incompetent someone is, but how incredibly over-competent he is. Take Lord Bowler's tracking skill on The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr., or Agent 0's disguise skill on the revived Get Smart with Andy Dick as good examples of this.)
wait...revived Get Smart? Cool!
...wait...Andy Dick?
Aw #)(%)#%@&)%#&@#)$& no!

[SuperPheemy]

An alien/ space based suggestion

Star*Guard Fugitives: Not a group per-se but a number of alien bad guys who have been captured by the Star*Guard in the past, but escaped. They share background elements, but otherwise are antisocial loners.

Space Pirates: A band of star-borne pillaigers and plunderers with an ancient, salvaged Malvan scout-cruiser. The pirates are otherwise normal (except for being alien scum from across the galaxy, but have access to Malvan technologies which allow them to strike with overwhelming force, and get away.

[Kirby]

Maybe a villain who's dedicated himself to rid the world of Mechanon and he doesn't care who gets in his way. His weapons are designed against machines and include magnetic and force attacks. Since Mechanon is tough to hit (for him) or perhaps for him to make sure he doesn't miss, he uses AoE attacks (including explosions). Perhaps he has electronic suppression which could interfere with Powered Armor types and Gadgeteers.

His theory is that the end justifies the means.

[Lord Liaden]

That's not a bad idea, Kirby. Champions has had anti-mentalist villains and anti-magic villains; no reason not to include an anti-tech villain.

[Steve Long]

Legend says Jessie James shot a man in his sleep for snoring too loud.

It was neither Jesse James nor John Wesley Hardin, though both seem to have had the story grafted onto their histories. It was Clay Allison.

[GrooveD70]

It was neither Jesse James nor John Wesley Hardin, though both seem to have had the story grafted onto their histories. It was Clay Allison.

I thought that was Clay Aiken....:p

[BobGreenwade]

I thought that was Clay Aiken....:pNot Clay Shaw?

[BobGreenwade]

An alien/ space based suggestion

Star*Guard Fugitives: Not a group per-se but a number of alien bad guys who have been captured by the Star*Guard in the past, but escaped. They share background elements, but otherwise are antisocial loners.

Space Pirates: A band of star-borne pillaigers and plunderers with an ancient, salvaged Malvan scout-cruiser. The pirates are otherwise normal (except for being alien scum from across the galaxy, but have access to Malvan technologies which allow them to strike with overwhelming force, and get away.
Personally I think these would be excellent group ideas for Scourges Of The Galaxy.

[Spence]

Maybe a villain who's dedicated himself to rid the world of Mechanon and he doesn't care who gets in his way. His weapons are designed against machines and include magnetic and force attacks. Since Mechanon is tough to hit (for him) or perhaps for him to make sure he doesn't miss, he uses AoE attacks (including explosions). Perhaps he has electronic suppression which could interfere with Powered Armor types and Gadgeteers.

His theory is that the end justifies the means.

Or an extremely powerful being (alien or magical background) caught in a epic battle against "X" that has spanned a millennium (century, years). He/She has either fought the "enemy" themselves (be reborn, past the torch, new body, whatever) and has become totally dedicated to stopping "them" at all costs. While they are the Hero and consider themselves the defender of man, sometimes things happen. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the few. Met one on one in the street he/she is the nicest person you have ever met, kind etc. In Super guise they will save the cat, put out the fire, stop the bank robber and general seem to be just your average power level good guy/gal.

But when "the enemy" appears, out come the stops and their true power is revealed. They should be on par with whichever major bad guy you want. Maybe even two superforms. One for each level of power invoked.

A Hero or Villain? After the first battle in public with "X", and they assessment of collateral damage, the press will most definitely brand he/she a villain.

[Twilight]

Re: Humorous villains for lighter campaigns.

This just occurred to me about an hour ago: maybe the "Campaign Use" section for each character can include options for how to make the character lighter or comical, as well as how to make him darker. Changes in Powers, Disadvantages, and so forth can often do the trick.

(And a side note on comedy: sometimes comedy isn't just about how incompetent someone is, but how incredibly over-competent he is. Take Lord Bowler's tracking skill on The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr., or Agent 0's disguise skill on the revived Get Smart with Andy Dick as good examples of this.)

Due South also used Frazer's uber-competence for laughs on more then one occassion. Super tracker, good fighter, excellent survival skills, near encycolpediac knowledge of damn near anything, makes Batman looks like a wuss, Benton Frazer was a bonafide superhero but being Canadian he was to modest to admit it. :D

[bcholmes]

Not Clay Shaw?

Back, and to the left. Back, and to the left.

BC
now cleaning snorted coffee off my monitor...

[Goradin]

I would like to see another villanous agency or some villains themed off the Nazis. Maybe the Fourth Reich, eh? How about a Red Skull or Hate Monger villain or a clone of you know who? Maybe with a polar base or the like settled in the gateway to Agartha in the North Pole or Thule. Both DC and Marvel have nice villains themed along these lines.

I'd like to see a master Vampire villain call him Vlad, or the like. I am sure you know who I'd like to see and he once took on the X-men. Thing is I would base him on Saberhagen's and he is not evil per se but simply trying to survive.

Some more stellar or Galactic threats are definitely in order. I really like Darkseid and would love to see a villain along those lines.

How about a general villain? You know an Army commander to hammer people with when they get out of line. Maybe he has his hand in some rogue arms deals or science too. This is a classic of the comics.

Mordace would suit the Starguard rogue. I have him from Digital Hero but I too like the Green Lantern Corps which they are based upon.

How about a Belasco type villain? I think most of our players are mature enough to handle it. Or a trickster god. I once threw Loki at my players and they loved it. Maybe a son the Dragon who is meddlesome in the affairs of men.

I still think we need our Terrorist Villain.

[Kirby]

I would like to see another villanous agency or some villains themed off the Nazis. Maybe the Fourth Reich, eh? How about a Red Skull or Hate Monger villain or a clone of you know who?And we could call him Histler. :winkgrin: Actually, a Nazi master villain wouldn't be too bad, especially if he's a normal. This could be someone to help further Panzer's (CWW) goal(s).


Some more stellar or Galactic threats are definitely in order. I really like Darkseid and would love to see a villain along those lines.I definitely like Darkseid myself. Though, I think his presence would be more akin to Galactic Champions than just Champions. But who knows? Maybe both?

[Kirby]

I still think we need our Terrorist Villain.
I don't know how I missed that the first time, but I agree here.

[Sketchpad]

I definitely like Darkseid myself. Though, I think his presence would be more akin to Galactic Champions than just Champions. But who knows? Maybe both?
I would say both ... After all, Darkseid has been a pain for both modern heroes and Legionnaires ;) While we're looking at cosmic characters, I highly recommend Marvel's "Annihlation" mini for some great ideas :)

[Spence]

I'd like to see a master Vampire villain call him Vlad, or the like. I am sure you know who I'd like to see and he once took on the X-men. Thing is I would base him on Saberhagen's and he is not evil per se but simply trying to survive.

I still think we need our Terrorist Villain.

Like Brother Nightroad from Trinity Blood maybe?


A terrorist villain is a good call, but that could be anything. Any solo can be tweeked into a terrorist. JMO of course ;)

[assault]

I definitely like Darkseid myself. Though, I think his presence would be more akin to Galactic Champions than just Champions. But who knows? Maybe both?

Definitely both. Let's face it, he first appeared in Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen.

He's the ultimate behind the scenes villain, in many ways. While he will engage in direct invasions, he is also likely to be behind outfits like Intergang and the Evil Factory.

You can run whole campaigns around around a villain like this. Maybe throw in a Lex Luthor type to give him some competition.

[Sketchpad]

You can run whole campaigns around around a villain like this. Maybe throw in a Lex Luthor type to give him some competition.

Or as a pawn. Perhaps he's holding a promise of power for the Luthor-like character ;)

[Lord Liaden]

Although he isn't an actual god, or an alien/cosmic being... in terms of his power, his resources, and the worship and fear he inspires in his followers, IMHO Dr. Destroyer is the Darkseid analogue in the Champions Universe.

[Teflon Billy]

Although he isn't an actual god, or an alien/cosmic being... in terms of his power, his resources, and the worship and fear he inspires in his followers, IMHO Dr. Destroyer is the Darkseid analogue in the Champions Universe.I always pegged him as a Dr. Doom analog with Casual & Capricious Killer (Total).

TB

[assault]

Or as a pawn. Perhaps he's holding a promise of power for the Luthor-like character ;)

I would have both. A Morgan Edge type pawn and a Luthor type competitor.

Having three sides rather than two gives you more potential story lines.

[Kirby]

...IMHO Dr. Destroyer is the Darkseid analogue in the Champions Universe.:eek: Don't say such things! :no: Hold your tongue you faceless, um, face! :tsk: Do not soil the image of Darkseid with Dr. D. :cry:

Though, I always thought he was more Doom-like. :D YMMV.

[Metaphysician]

Although he isn't an actual god, or an alien/cosmic being... in terms of his power, his resources, and the worship and fear he inspires in his followers, IMHO Dr. Destroyer is the Darkseid analogue in the Champions Universe.

No, no, he isn't. His power isn't even close, his resource base is inferior to Doom's when he actually cares to assemble armies, and as for worship. . .

:slap:

[Lord Liaden]

In original inspiration, Dr. Destroyer was definitely a riff on Dr. Doom. However, he's evolved beyond that now. His raw power in combat is superior to Dr. Doom's (unless Doom has stolen some from someone else), and is far beyond almost all other published characters in the contemporary Champions Universe. He considers himself as like a god (witness his quote in CKC), which Doom does not, and his Javangari followers do worship him. Like Darkseid Destroyer uses elite superhuman servants, which Doom typically doesn't except as temporary pawns. His followers and resources were sufficient to take on a significant portion of the United States military and superhuman champions, and battle them for three straight days (during his assault on the US from Destruga).

Please note that I'm not saying that Destroyer is as good a character as either Doom or Darkseid. Just that the role he plays in the CU is closer to the latter than the former.

[BobGreenwade]

Looking through Villainy Amok over the weekend, I found two characters in the middle of the book who I'd love to see in VVV if they're not in Evil Unleashed (I can't tell because the link to the EU preview PDF is broken) or elsewhere. These two are Vera Ellard (page 63) post-mutagen, and Dr. Arthur Graves (page 103).

[Kirby]

Chapter Two: Villain Groups: This chapter's pretty much locked down. It's going to include three teams:

1. The Tiger Squad, official superhero team of China (but for geopolitical reasons often opposed to Our Heroes in ways that make them "villainous")
...

So, with all that in mind, what would you like to see? Is there a type of character the CU doesn't have yet that you think it should? Have we mentioned someone offhandedly in an existing book whom you'd like to know more about? Let me know! :hex:Is this going to be all the remaining supers? Or just a portion?

If all, I'd like to see a "Zodiac" team from the squad. Twelve members representing the 12 years (rat, dragon, dog, etc.) with some semblence of themed powers. If not a part of TS, maybe a reference to a Zodiac-like team that the Tiger Squad considers criminals or "opponents of the state."

If VVV will not contain all the remaining supers in the squad, I'd like to see a China sourcebook down the line then that will contain all of Tiger Squad as well as official leader NPCs and some plots and subplots (Dr Wu, Cult of the Red Banner, etc.).

[Steve Long]

VVV is only going to include five heroes from the team (none of whom have anything to do with the Chinese zodiac, sorry). The Tiger Squad numbers nearly 60 superhumans; it's simply not possible to include them all. While we don't have any plans to ever do an official "Champions of the Middle Kingdom" sourcebook on China, never say never. :hex:

[bigdamnhero]

VVV is only going to include five heroes from the team (none of whom have anything to do with the Chinese zodiac, sorry). The Tiger Squad numbers nearly 60 superhumans; it's simply not possible to include them all.
:eek: Wow, remind me not to attack China anytime soon. (Always good advice regardless.) ;)

Any chance we'll get to see brief blurbs, or even just names, for some other in addition to the five that get full write-ups? (Yeah I know, we're a bunch of greedy so-and-sos.) :)

[Kirby]

:eek: Wow, remind me not to attack China anytime soon.They had 50 members in the Squad back in 4E Watchers of the Dragon. I guess they gained 10 with the edition change. ;)

[gojira]

:eek: Wow, remind me not to attack China anytime soon. (Always good advice regardless.) ;)

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia." Now where have I heard that before? ;)

[Kirby]

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia." Now where have I heard that before? ;)Definitely not from the Mongol Horde. :D

Yes, I know it was from The Princess Bride.

[gojira]

Well, I think this is from a European perspective. :)

[BobGreenwade]

VVV is only going to include five heroes from the team (none of whom have anything to do with the Chinese zodiac, sorry). The Tiger Squad numbers nearly 60 superhumans; it's simply not possible to include them all. While we don't have any plans to ever do an official "Champions of the Middle Kingdom" sourcebook on China, never say never. :hex:Maybe you could list "other Tiger Squad members" in a text box. (I'd expect you're already planning it, but I try to never assume.)

[gojira]

Or make it a list of "unconfirmed names," just to allow a little wiggle room if you decide to change a few later on.

[Steve Long]

Any chance we'll get to see brief blurbs, or even just names, for some other in addition to the five that get full write-ups?

There's a list of a dozen or so other members, but that's it. No point locking myself into something now when I may have better ideas later. ;)

[Myrlyn]

Steve:

Ok, a couple of quick comments...

1) I agree with Lord Liaden that there really isn't a need for a Time Conquerer themed villain. I think he nailed it by pointing out that Istvatha V'han is the perfect analog for that kind of character. Whether it's the time dimension or some other dimension, the major conquerer themed villain is dealt with nicely by her.

2) Shaft's idea of villain packages in an appendix is pure genius in my opinion, and I would love to see a section like that in the upcoming VVV.

3) Kudos for more Sunburst villains. While I'm a bit disappointed that Ray won't make an appearance (and it's such a perfect chance to show off some of the powers from Ultimate Speedster too!), I'm just happy that Sunburst will be back with more friends.

4) A Nazi themed villain would be very much appreciated. I've always enjoyed any Baron Blood, Baron Zemo, Red Skull, Master Man or Captain Natzi story from Marvel or DC. I wouldn't want to see a Hitler clone though (Hate Monger)... Something along the lines of the City of Heroes Fifth Column or some other Fourth Reich themed organization would also work nicely. This gets my vote for the new Master Villain category.

Note: I admit I'm biased on this front however since I recently acquired Monte Cook's copy of Wings of the Valkyrie, and am looking for possible tie-ins that can spin off of that adventure. :rolleyes:

5) Trickster God. I forget who mentioned this one, but I perked up immediately. There is a perfect god from literature that has been written about recently that might work very well for this villain - Anansi. A friend of mine recently wrote up a hero based on this trickster god, if you like the idea and might enjoy one person's take on the character..

And now for my personal plug/plea for a villain I would very much like to see written up - Wyvern. You've made mention of Wyvern by his civilian name, John MacDougal in your Ankylosaur write up, and in that write up dangle the fact that Ankylosaur and MacDougal get separated, but then we never hear any more about MacDougal. I'd love to see that loose end tied up with Wyvern's return to the Champions universe.

I'd also like to see a re-vamped Power Crusher, Bruiser, or a similar drain/transfer themed brick villain.

As always, thanks for letting us all provide some input.

Keith

[gojira]

4) A Nazi themed villain would be very much appreciated. I've always enjoyed any Baron Blood, Baron Zemo, Red Skull, Master Man or Captain Natzi story from Marvel or DC. I wouldn't want to see a Hitler clone though (Hate Monger)... Something along the lines of the City of Heroes Fifth Column or some other Fourth Reich themed organization would also work nicely. This gets my vote for the new Master Villain category.

Or the Nazi bad guys from Hellboy, sans The Master. Hmm, Nazi Head-in-a-jar villain, plus cold sleep and weird machines and strange human experiments. Plus maybe a little occult, just enough to make it a bit interesting, but we gots tons of occult as it is now.

[Spidey88]

posted by gojira:



"Never get involved in a land war in Asia." Now where have I heard that before?


Only slightly less well-known is the phrase:

"Never bet against a Cicilian when death is on the line!"

"Hehehehehehehe -"

Thud.

[gojira]

I owe you Princess Bride rep, Spidey. :D

[PhantomGM6101]

I'm sympathetic to the call for a Lex Luthor-style master villain... but at this power level, I honestly don't see much need to write him up in a book. It makes more sense for Dark Champions (for which I've created a few such villains), but in Champions a guy like that is just a personality and a presence, and any GM can probably handle that. As LL suggested, you can use Franklin Stone for that easily enough. ;)

Now, a time-conquering master villain... that's something I've vaguely considered before, and it's probably worth some more thought now. Good call. ;)

The suggestion for another alien villain or two is worth considering. We've got one, Valak the World-Ravager, in CU:NotW, but another one or two couldn't hurt.

Thanx for the suggestions, folx! Keep 'em coming. :hex:

Villian Team How about the Corruptors Of All? I have'nt seen them since the original EnemiesIII,while we're at it what about DeathStroke from the orignal Enemies Book,Mass Reaction from Villiany Unbound and a brand new version of Terror INC to stir the pot in the New CU?
master villian Why don't we go for a cosmic level master villian,Like the Infinite Man,or Demonicus Rex from Invaders?

For solo villians, how about bringing back Fire & Ice, Hideous,Death Angel,Brother Basilisk,the Dash,The Anihilator and Microwave.

[death tribble]

Had a look at USPD 1 again at the weekend. The named villains in that we have not seen are The Curse, Dreamwitch, Entropy, Fleshtone, Mindgame and Plague.
I believe that Morph is in the Ultimate Metamorph.
Of the ones named I believe we have been promised Entropy and Fleshtone in the new book. However I really want to see or have confirmed The Curse, Dreamwitch and Plague as well.
With Entropy and Fleshtone as their powers are so exotic I want to see them in print.
With Plague it is nostalgia.
And with The Curse and Dreamwitch I want to see how the powers all fit together.
I wouldn't mind seeing Mindgame as well.

[Steve Long]

Villian Team How about the Corruptors Of All? I have'nt seen them since the original EnemiesIII

For a whole bunch of very good reasons I won't go into, you'll never see us do any characters from that book that haven't already been redone.



,while we're at it what about DeathStroke from the orignal Enemies Book,Mass Reaction from Villiany Unbound and a brand new version of Terror INC to stir the pot in the New CU?

master villian Why don't we go for a cosmic level master villian,Like the Infinite Man,or Demonicus Rex from Invaders?

For solo villians, how about bringing back Fire & Ice, Hideous,Death Angel,Brother Basilisk,the Dash,The Anihilator and Microwave.

Sorry, but no. I'd far rather come up with cool new stuff than recycle old stuff I don't care for.

[bigdamnhero]

Sorry, but no. I'd far rather come up with cool new stuff than recycle old stuff I don't care for.
FWIW I'd rather read cool new stuff than recycled old stuff, so I'm good. :smoke:

[gojira]

OTOH, I just found The Engineer and Invictus updated in Villainy Amok. Cool beans! :D :D :D

[death tribble]

Steve,

If you are still looking for a team idea how about this:-
A team out to bring down America (the U.S.) comprised of people who have a particular grudge against not just the government but the whole idea of the US. These would be an Englishman who believes the colonies should never have broken from the mother country;
a Frenchman who believes that France was forced into excepting the Louisiana purchase;
a Spaniard who believes that part of the country should be Spain
an American Indian out for revenge for all the harm done to his people by Americans since colonisation;
a Canadian who believes that America should have conceded territory after the war of 1812;
a Mexican who blames America for all the ills that his country has suffered after the 1840s war;
a Confederate who wants to see America returned to the pre-Cvil War setting;

I am conscious that this might be seen as Eurostar in reverse but my experience is that Americans like having a go at people threatening their freedom. Particularly when they are foreigners. And it is not an idea I have seen anywhere else.

As for Masterminds I came up with one who was a weapon designer in the 60s who suffered cancer and as a result had his head rebuilt with technology.
Granted this might be too like the Warlord for you but I offer it as an idea. And can post the pic that was done for me at the time. He was imaginitvely titled Mastermind. Mastermind went into cryogenesis in order to combat the cancer and retain his intellect.

[ghost-angel]

OTOH, I just found The Engineer and Invictus updated in Villainy Amok. Cool beans! :D :D :D

They're also in Evil Unleashed.

[Sketchpad]

I'm also one for seeing some of the old faces of Champions ... but maybe done in a new way. I don't mind some of the new guys, but I have to admit I really miss some of the Classic Enemies :)

[BobGreenwade]

I'm also one for seeing some of the old faces of Champions ... but maybe done in a new way. I don't mind some of the new guys, but I have to admit I really miss some of the Classic Enemies :)Maybe we could get a certain Australian martial artist who claims to be from another dimension, even though most people think he's just a comic book character.... :eg:

[Sketchpad]

Maybe we could get a certain Australian martial artist who claims to be from another dimension, even though most people think he's just a comic book character.... :eg:
I could dig that ... the thing I miss from Champions is a sense of legacy. I think that's why I'm more of a DC fan than Marvel. But then I degress ...

[Kirby]

I could dig that ... the thing I miss from Champions is a sense of legacy.Since 5E, I've always found a way to bring in Seeker and the Champions (sans Defender) into my campaign world, be it as students at Ravenwood or coming through a dimensional portal.


I think that's why I'm more of a DC fan than Marvel.I always thought people who preferred DC over Marvel just had better taste. :D

[Silbeg]

I's love to see a section on beasts: animals, quasi-intelligent alien monsters, extradimensional insects, superpowered dogs, and so forth. Pop up all the time in comics, and make for a nice change from Supervillain Of The Week syndrome. Probably not enough to fill a seperate Bestiary, but could make a nice chapter of VVV.


Sounds good to me!!!

[Silbeg]

More villains with a lower power level. Right now, I use less than eight percent of published material because it's too mighty.

Interesting... what power level do you play at?

I ask, because I often have the opposite problem... at least with the villains defenses... they often seem to light for my heroes... which can make for some very short, one-sided battles.

[Silbeg]

D'oh! It hit me yesterday that I already have access to a master villain I've wanted to revamp but haven't had the opportunity: Sunburst. So I'll do him and a couple of other Project-created followers. Problem solved. ;)

Sweet!!!

I was wondering if we'd ever get a revival of Project Sunburst. Sounds like a great story line to reopen...

And the potential for interesting story lines... like, when Sunburst goes after Radium... hmmm....

[quozaxx]

I would like to see examples of duplication at the 25, 50, and 75%. I have not seen any examples of this.

[quozaxx]

I would like to see examples of duplication at the 25, 50, and 75% level.

[Kirby]

I would like to see examples of duplication at the 25, 50, and 75%. I have not seen any examples of this.

I would like to see examples of duplication at the 25, 50, and 75% level.
Hmm, that looks to be at the 75% level. :D

[Goradin]

Just got Nobles Knights and Necromancers and I plan on updating Sargarth to the modern age as my master vampire villian and he should be a doozy even for Champions characters. I also saw the Lts. of Kal Turak which with some work may be easy to use as henchmen for Takofanes. So some of my requests above have been taken care of, by other genre books.

Just need the Nazi villian. I really like the way M&M did up SHADOW in the agent book. I do not play M&M but I do read their books for ideas.

[steriaca]

Villian Team How about the Corruptors Of All? I have'nt seen them since the original EnemiesIII,while we're at it what about DeathStroke from the orignal Enemies Book,Mass Reaction from Villiany Unbound and a brand new version of Terror INC to stir the pot in the New CU?
master villian Why don't we go for a cosmic level master villian,Like the Infinite Man,or Demonicus Rex from Invaders?

For solo villians, how about bringing back Fire & Ice, Hideous,Death Angel,Brother Basilisk,the Dash,The Anihilator and Microwave.

Take a deep breath, Phantom GM. Are you sitting down? This might come as a shock to you, but hear goes.

DOJ (who publishes the new HERO SYSTEM) dosen't own thoes charaters anymore. And thoes which thay still own, Steve is not intrested in and willnot put into a book.

Not even if Dennis Mahonie pays DOJ a few thousand to do so (since he owns Corruptors Of All, Death Anngel, Brother Basilisk, The Dash, The Anihilator, and many other charaters). This is also why in his company he had to change the names of a few to many charaters in his comic book line (like Foxbat becoming The Flying Fox, Dr. Destroyer becoming Dr. Death, ect).

Yes, I miss a few clasic villians also. I would like to see Hidious in the new book (proably as part of The Director Of Crime's Crime Troup). But chances are not so good.

So I will take whatever DOJ publishes, go out and get the pre-5ed stuff, and make a conversion.

[Steve Long]

OK, VVV is done so I'm locking and unsticking this thread. Thanx all for your input and ideas! :hex: