Throwing a Manhole cover vs a OIF

[Short Shot]

Decker has 40 Strength and runs around with a (20 pt multipower) shape changing OIF that currently has 4 shapes, including a shield.

With his 40 str, he can pick up a man hole cover and chuck it at someone doing a maximum damage of 8d6. If a man hole cover isn't around, he wants to be able to throw his shield ala Captain America.

What has to happen for this to be legal?

The reason I'm asking is all the builds for Cap have his shield have a xd6 energy blast put into it and I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how things change in tossing a random peice of scenery vs a focus you're carrying around.

Thanks.

[Thia Halmades]

The recent Marvel: Ultimate Alliance certainly doesn't change the appearance of Cap Shield = EB, if anything it reinforces it. Cap is one of the best blasters in that game because of the shield.

The simple version is that you determine the value of the object on the chart, and I believe by the rules you cannot deal more than damage than the DEF+BODY of the object in question; if you deal more STR damage than the DEF+BODY, you risk breaking the object. If the object is an OIF (such as my Ice Cream Cone) it will return to your hands if written correctly. Otherwise, you could go the Cap route and build an EB, OIF (Shield) to go with it.

But yes, you can simply "throw the shield" and deal damage that way (p.447). But avoiding the tricky part of having the object break is why the EB mechanic is used -- it also reflects better on the consistency, etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd let him throw the shield if he didn't buy an energy blast, just like he could throw the manhole cover. But, just like the manhole cover, the shield will bounce away at some odd angle and be difficult to retrieve during combat. Of course, if it misses, it will just keep going, and the target may deflect ot away, or possibly even catch it and use it himself.

Captain America has his Shield Throw purchased as an EB, so his shield comes back. If Captain PointSavings just relies on tossing a focus at this targets, without paying for the EB, then his focus doesn't come back to him automatically - he has to go fetch it.

[Bloodstone]

In addition....

A random piece of scenery may have penalties for being non aerodynamic (-2) and unbalanced (-4). A purchased EB does not.

Also, unless you put limits on it (such as range based on STR), the purchased energy blast will have greater max range by default. And an EB has equal range regardless of if the character is standing still, prone or running.

Personally I would probably write the power up a as something along the lines of:

Discus Toss: 8d6 EB, OIF (Object of Opportunity), Range Based On STR.

If you are worried that it will make him too Bullseye like (since as written he can throw any object with deadly precision and power), make sure to limit the stuff he can throw further to something like "heavy disk shaped object of opportunity".

[Sean Waters]

An unbreakable focus doesn't really have Def or Body (or a huge amount), and a focus built to simulate armour might have a disproportionately high DEF, so I'm not sure the normal 'chucking stuff' rules work that well with focii.

My solution, such as it is, will probably depend a bit on the whole build of this mysterious shapeshifting focus: what are the other shapes, and what can they do? What is the 'power' of the shield shape? Is it built as a multipower/EC/VPP or as something else (some freaking multiform, perhaps?)

Now part of the problem with ant approach you might take is that shape really is important to how much damage and range you can get out of an object: the rules reflect this in that range and accuracy are dependent on object weight and shape. My preferred solution here is 'remove the guesswork': if this is something you plan to do a lot, chuck your shield at people, then buy it as a power. If not then keep it in reserve as the occasional power trick.

What the rules do not do, or do not do well, is attribute things like mass to focuses (I'm alternating plurals to see which I feel more comfortable with). You can buy it as 'real' and decide what the characteristics are, but a normal focus is not defined in terms that easily enable you to convert it into a 'game object'. I mean, it is not difficult to do in practice, but there are no mechanics for it.

So, like I said, my preferred solution, given that we can see it being a problem, would be to build it as a power, probably an 8d6 EB, but possibly a 4d6 HTH attack with range. Or something else. Maybe.

[Klytus]

The simple version is that you determine the value of the object on the chart, and I believe by the rules you cannot deal more than damage than the DEF+BODY of the object in question; if you deal more STR damage than the DEF+BODY, you risk breaking the object.


This has always bothered me somewhat for one reason - the "stalk of wheat embedded into a tree-trunk" effect. By ther rules, there is no way for this to happen. However, in the Real World, if an object is tossed with sufficient velocity, it can go through objects far in excess of its DEF+BODY without breaking. Ergo, there should be some mechanic by which an object can do damage beyond its DEF+BODY if it is moving fast enough.

I just have no idea how to work it.

[Sean Waters]

<I>The simple version is that you determine the value of the object on the chart, and I believe by the rules you cannot deal more than damage than the DEF+BODY of the object in question; if you deal more STR damage than the DEF+BODY, you risk breaking the object.</I>

This has always bothered me somewhat for one reason - the "stalk of wheat embedded into a tree-trunk" effect. By ther rules, there is no way for this to happen. However, in the Real World, if an object is tossed with sufficient velocity, it can go through objects far in excess of its DEF+BODY without breaking. Ergo, there should be some mechanic by which an object can do damage beyond its DEF+BODY if it is moving fast enough.

I just have no idea how to work it.

I can think of a couple of possible, solutions. The first works (probably) but is a bit impractical for everyday use.

First off, the damage that the object takes and delivers could be rolled seperately: the wheat stalk may deliver a lot more damage than it takes, or vice versa - afterall, of all the wheat stalks in the hurricane, only a tiny fraction will anctually penetrate a block of wood or a tree trunk (saw this Discovery Kids prog on that very thing where they artificially accelerated wheat stalks at a palm tree: couldn't get more then about an inch of penetration at best - but piano wire went right throught he trunk and into the concrete wall behind!)

Alternatively you could assume that the rule just deals with average objects and is a 'standard effect' rule, used in the majority of cases - and make it up for the few and far between cases. That's the one I'd go with.

[Dust Raven]

<I>The simple version is that you determine the value of the object on the chart, and I believe by the rules you cannot deal more than damage than the DEF+BODY of the object in question; if you deal more STR damage than the DEF+BODY, you risk breaking the object.</I>

This has always bothered me somewhat for one reason - the "stalk of wheat embedded into a tree-trunk" effect. By ther rules, there is no way for this to happen. However, in the Real World, if an object is tossed with sufficient velocity, it can go through objects far in excess of its DEF+BODY without breaking. Ergo, there should be some mechanic by which an object can do damage beyond its DEF+BODY if it is moving fast enough.

I just have no idea how to work it.

There is a mechanic. I call it GM Fiat. There's another mechanic you can, which I call Pay For It. In either case, it's a special situation, just like running a straw though a brick wall.

[Dust Raven]

As far as the tossing of Foci...

Keep in mind that you paid for a (rather small) Focus. 20 points isn't much. One of my characters spend more than that on a wrist radio. Should he be able to toss it for 8d6? I don't think he should. If you'd like, you can buy the 8d6 damage effect rather cheaply. EB 8d6 (40 Active), OAF (-1), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1), Range Based On STR (-1/4), Lockout (cannot use any MP slots until charge recovered, -1/2). Real Cost: 11.

[ghost-angel]

First, look at how much damage the Focus can do without purhcasing an Attack Power: 20 Active Points / 5 = 4. So the Focus has 4DEF + 1BODY. It's doing a maximum of 5D6 Damage when thrown (vs the manhole covers 8D6). [A Thrown Object does dice in damage = DEF + BODY or STR Damage, whichever is less]

The biggest difference is you're doing a lot less damage with your thrown shield than you are with the manhole cover. Unless you buy the Thrown Shield as attack power of 8D6.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

EB 8d6 (40 Active), OAF (-1), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1), Range Based On STR (-1/4), Lockout (cannot use any MP slots until charge recovered, -1/2). Real Cost: 11.

Or, if you want to do something a bit nastier:


Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4) (25 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Shield (-1/2). Real Cost: 12.

This lets him do his natural Strength 40's 8d6, plus an additional 4d6 when he 'throws his shield'. Which bounces back to him, of course, all in the same phase...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

First, look at how much damage the Focus can do without purhcasing an Attack Power: 20 Active Points / 5 = 4. So the Focus has 4DEF + 1BODY. It's doing a maximum of 5D6 Damage when thrown (vs the manhole covers 8D6). [A Thrown Object does dice in damage = DEF + BODY or STR Damage, whichever is less]

The biggest difference is you're doing a lot less damage with your thrown shield than you are with the manhole cover. Unless you buy the Thrown Shield as attack power of 8D6.

This presumes that the character does NOT buy the shield attack as an attack, just 'throws this focus of his'. Which would be like throwing, oh, I dunno, your gun or your espresso machine or something. If he buys the item as the attack power, it doesn't matter how much body/def the thing has; it's built to deal the Bought Power amount of damage.

[Short Shot]

The multipool I visualize as essentially a mystery blob of metal that reshapes itself on command. Decker has a bunch of strange relatives who aren't necessarily all there. One of his uncles invented this multitool for possible military use. It's a sheild! It's a shovel! It's a pick! A pry bar! Watch it reform into these set shapes! Only problem is it weighs in at 100 lbs. Decker handles it easily but it ain't something that the average joe is going to be able to use at all. Might as well TRY to use the man hole cover as a shield.

I hadn't actually planned on using it as a projectile weapon when I created the character. I think the original inspiration for it was actually Cheshire Cat's billy club with +4D6 and Missile deflection for 20 pts and one thought lead to another. At this point the 3 shapes that have already been used are a chain whip (3 inches stretching, indirect), a staff form (+4dc), and shield form (missile deflection). Another player commented about ranged HtH attacks when we were fighting a villian who stayed to high for me to reach. HD wouldn't let me, leading me to a search and finding Fred and 5ER treat ranged HtH attacks differently. All of which leads back to here.

TMI, I know, that there you go.

I think the key point is the (active points) / 5 = Defense thing. Essentially, that would limit the EB I could do with it to 4dc, which, gee, is exactly what I could buy with a 20 pt active multipower.

[ghost-angel]

This presumes that the character does NOT buy the shield attack as an attack, just 'throws this focus of his'. Which would be like throwing, oh, I dunno, your gun or your espresso machine or something. If he buys the item as the attack power, it doesn't matter how much body/def the thing has; it's built to deal the Bought Power amount of damage.

ah yeah - hence the last sentence in my post "Unless you buy the Thrown Shield as an attack power"

[ghost-angel]

I think the key point is the (active points) / 5 = Defense thing. Essentially, that would limit the EB I could do with it to 4dc, which, gee, is exactly what I could buy with a 20 pt active multipower.

Well no, if you buy an Energy Blast it can be as big as you want it. If you use the focus as an improvised weapon the damage is limited to DEF+BODY.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

No, I see what he's getting at; the MPow is a 20-point pool (stated right there in the first post, teach ME to actually read it!!) and so, 'how much can I get from that?' sort of becomes the question. MPows have that Active Point cap, so no, he really can't buy as much as he wants, if he wants to fit it inside the pool.

Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4) (19 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Shield (-1/2): 9 Real Points, or 1 point as an Ultra Slot in the MPow.

And yeah, sorry, missed the note about the 'unless you buy it as a power'. Note: buying it as a power this way lets Decker add his strength to the shot, which makes this considerably better than a piddling 4d6 EB. And with a 40 strength for a roughly 50 kg item, he's got 35 extra strength, and can throw it ... 28"/14"/7" as a running/standing/prone throw. Not bad, really.

Also, built this way he does not HAVE to throw it -- so he can use it, say, as a straight shield-bash, or chopping at someone with the edge, or what have you, and he gets bonus dice. And if he adds 'Weapon Element: Shields' to any martial art he has, he could add his martial maneuver in with it, too. Very dangerous, this can become, yes indeed...

[Blue]

I seem to recall something about "Object of Opportunity" under focus. In fact, my character, Anthem, bought an RKA (shurikens, retrievable charges) but the AP and some of the other effects are Naked Mods with the Object of Opportunity clause.

[Short Shot]

No, I see what he's getting at; the MPow is a 20-point pool (stated right there in the first post, teach ME to actually read it!!) and so, 'how much can I get from that?' sort of becomes the question. MPows have that Active Point cap, so no, he really can't buy as much as he wants, if he wants to fit it inside the pool.

Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4) (19 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Shield (-1/2): 9 Real Points, or 1 point as an Ultra Slot in the MPow.

And yeah, sorry, missed the note about the 'unless you buy it as a power'. Note: buying it as a power this way lets Decker add his strength to the shot, which makes this considerably better than a piddling 4d6 EB. And with a 40 strength for a roughly 50 kg item, he's got 35 extra strength, and can throw it ... 28"/14"/7" as a running/standing/prone throw. Not bad, really.

Also, built this way he does not HAVE to throw it -- so he can use it, say, as a straight shield-bash, or chopping at someone with the edge, or what have you, and he gets bonus dice. And if he adds 'Weapon Element: Shields' to any martial art he has, he could add his martial maneuver in with it, too. Very dangerous, this can become, yes indeed...

I tried this, and would love to do it. The problem comes up with a change in 5er that doesn't let you add Range to a normal HtH attack but does allow you to on a Killing HtH attack. Go figure. I'll likely talk to my GM about doing it anyway.

[Bloodstone]

The problem comes up with a change in 5er that doesn't let you add Range to a normal HtH attack but does allow you to on a Killing HtH attack. Go figure.

That's because HKA's don't have the required limitation of "Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2)". Obviously, adding Range would negate that limitation...

[Short Shot]

Here is a bit more info from a thread titled "Ranged, STR Adds Damage"


Okay. I figured this merited a little research. First, from the (old 5E) FAQ:


Next, we have several entries from the Rules Questions board:
One answer (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24558) denying the legality of a build based on HA being bought as Ranged.
An answer stating that there are exceptions (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12931) for weapons, and a follow-up (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12938).
A theoretical question about why (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1122) Ranged can't be bought for HA, and a follow-up (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1123).
That last seems to indicate there are other ways of doing the, "same thing." I suppose this is a reference to the FAQ answer, where you either buy it as an EB (obviously not the same thing), or effectively gain the Range Based on Strength Advantage for free by using the Focus Limitation.

Does this just feel wrong to people? Exceptions, exceptions, exceptions! It sure gives me the creepies. Weapons are not Powers, I guess. They are weapons. Should we have Characteristics, Skills, Perks, Talents, Powers, Disadvantages, and Weapons? Can we buy Ranged for an HA provided it has a Focus? :mad:

Actually, the very beginning of the FAQ answer may imply that you can apply the Ranged Advantage to a HA provided you don't apply the HA Limitation, although I'm not entirely sure of this, since I believe the Limitation is mandatory.

[Hyper-Man]

Or, if you want to do something a bit nastier:
Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4) (25 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF Shield (-1/2). Real Cost: 12.This lets him do his natural Strength 40's 8d6, plus an additional 4d6 when he 'throws his shield'. Which bounces back to him, of course, all in the same phase...

It's not legal to put any type of Ranged advantage on a HA (HTH Attack). Energy Blast is the power to use. Some type of multipower is usually the best way to go for modeling cap's shield. From a pure points persepective this will always make the HTH attack more powerfull than the Ranged EB.

example:

40 Throwable Shield: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2) - END=
3u 1) Sheild Bash: HA +6d6, Armor Piercing (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) - END=0
3u 2) Shield Edge: HKA 2d6 (3d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2) [Notes: Based on STR 25.] - END=0
2u 3) Sheild Throw (Multiple Targets): EB 6d6, Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Area Of Effect Nonselective (4" Any Area; +3/4) (60 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1), Lockout (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-1/4) - END=6
2u 4) Shield Throw (Trick Bounce vs. 1 Target): EB 8d6, Indirect (Same origin, any direction; +1/2) (60 Active Points); OAF Unbreakable (-1), Lockout (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-1/4) - END=6

Additional limitations could be added like Requires a Skill Roll. Lockout and OAF on the Throwing slots represents the throw being blocked or caught and/or missing the intended target. And I did not include any of the various defensive powers that could be built on 60 active points.

[Zed-F]

Yup, technically not legal to add Range Based on STR to a HA. If he sharpens the edge of the shield, he could do it as a HKA and then add Range Based on STR. (Although I usually prefer to use throwing knives for stuff like that.)

[The Souljourner]

The restriction of no range advantages on hand to hand attack seems silly to me. Then again, I think they should remove the -1/2 hand to hand attack limitation altogether. It's not like anyone every says "man this hand to hand attack is too inefficient" :p. Yes yes, compare it to strength, don't even go down that road.

Personally I think there should be a "blast" power at 5 points per d6 of normal damage, and gets a free advantage either "ranged" or "adds damage from strength".

Regardless, the best way to do this is to ignore the rule about no range on hand to hand attacks and just put it on there anyway (custom advantage +1/4). Done.

-Nate

[Boll Weevil]

I wish I had a dime for every time a manhole cover blew through the wall of Rosie's Diner during the dinner rush.

[archermoo]

The restriction of no range advantages on hand to hand attack seems silly to me. Then again, I think they should remove the -1/2 hand to hand attack limitation altogether. It's not like anyone every says "man this hand to hand attack is too inefficient" :p. Yes yes, compare it to strength, don't even go down that road.

Personally I think there should be a "blast" power at 5 points per d6 of normal damage, and gets a free advantage either "ranged" or "adds damage from strength".

Regardless, the best way to do this is to ignore the rule about no range on hand to hand attacks and just put it on there anyway (custom advantage +1/4). Done.

-Nate

Well, it was a response to the 3cp/D6 Hand Attack power in 4th having been too cheap. Personally, I agree with you. It should work like Killing Attacks do. You either get Ranged for free, or it adds to your Strength for free.

And as a note, you custom advantage for getting ranged should be +1/2, not +1/4. Unless you think that it should be cheaper for HAs than it is normally.

[Hyper-Man]

Well, it was a response to the 3cp/D6 Hand Attack power in 4th having been too cheap. Personally, I agree with you. It should work like Killing Attacks do. You either get Ranged for free, or it adds to your Strength for free.

And as a note, you custom advantage for getting ranged should be +1/2, not +1/4. Unless you think that it should be cheaper for HAs than it is normally.

Probably not going to happen until HERO 6ER is considered.

Even then, the issue is not just the cost of HA or 'Blast' but rather the mechanic for adding STR damage to it once Ranged has been chosen. Current HA rules are just additive with STR which still makes the HTH attack hugely better than the Ranged every time.

A possible solution would be make the STR Minimum Limitation a default feature of HA with no points savings. Make the STR minimum the base DC's x 5 x any advantages (basically the same formula used to create 'real' weapons. So now the 60 STR character with a Hammer that can be used in HTH as well as thrown CAN add some STR damage when throwing the hammer, just not as much as when using it HTH. The total amount of damage done would be FAR LESS in both cases than by the current rules.

[archermoo]

Probably not going to happen until HERO 6ER is considered.

Even then, the issue is not just the cost of HA or 'Blast' but rather the mechanic for adding STR damage to it once Ranged has been chosen. Current HA rules are just additive with STR which still makes the HTH attack hugely better than the Ranged every time.

A possible solution would be make the STR Minimum Limitation a default feature of HA with no points savings. Make the STR minimum the base DC's x 5 x any advantages (basically the same formula used to create 'real' weapons. So now the 60 STR character with a Hammer that can be used in HTH as well as thrown CAN add some STR damage when throwing the hammer, just not as much as when using it HTH. The total amount of damage done would be FAR LESS in both cases than by the current rules.

While you are probably correct on it not changing before 6th, I find myself more than willing to take the advice within the 5ER itself and change things as I see fit to have them make sense to me. Personally, I like the idea of a Blast power that is the normal damage version of Killing Attack. 5 points per damage class, you either get ranged for free or the ability to add STR, but with the same basic limits as KA currently has.

[bigdamnhero]

A ranged HtH attack is an Energy Blast; no need IMO for two powers that do the same thing. Tho I agree that calling it "Ranged Blast" or something might make this more intuitive.

The other thing to remember is that an OIF is a Limitation. Saying that the Focus allows you to throw it sounds suspiciously like trying to turn a Limitation into an Advantage.* I might allow that once under special circumstances, but if you want to do it routinely and effectively, I'd say buy an EB slot. You can buy it with one recoverable charge if he's not yet skilled enough to have the shield return to him each time.

* Edit: Re-reading this, I realize it sounds like I'm acusing you of something deceptive or underhanded. Not my intent at all, and sorry if it sounded that way.

[archermoo]

A ranged HtH attack is an Energy Blast; no need IMO for two powers that do the same thing. Tho I agree that calling it "Ranged Blast" or something might make this more intuitive.

The other thing to remember is that an OIF is a Limitation. Saying that the Focus allows you to throw it sounds suspiciously like trying to turn a Limitation into an Advantage.* I might allow that once under special circumstances, but if you want to do it routinely and effectively, I'd say buy an EB slot. You can buy it with one recoverable charge if he's not yet skilled enough to have the shield return to him each time.

* Edit: Re-reading this, I realize it sounds like I'm acusing you of something deceptive or underhanded. Not my intent at all, and sorry if it sounded that way.

Since you didn't quote, I'm not quite sure who you were directing that at, but as my post was last I thought I'd give a response. I don't recall posting anything about being able to throw things because they are focuses. If you want to be able to use a power at range it needs to be bought that way.

However I obviously didn't make myself clear on the whole "Blast" thing. I wasn't suggesting it in addition to the existing Energy Blast power, but as a replacement for it. Another way to do it would be to leave the name Energy Blast and just run it like the normal damage version of KA, but I figured the name should also be changed, since Energy Blast at least implies that it is an ED attack. I figure making the terminology a little more neutral would be a good thing. :)

[bigdamnhero]

Since you didn't quote, I'm not quite sure who you were directing that at
Sorry, I was referring to the original post.


However I obviously didn't make myself clear on the whole "Blast" thing. I wasn't suggesting it in addition to the existing Energy Blast power, but as a replacement for it. Another way to do it would be to leave the name Energy Blast and just run it like the normal damage version of KA, but I figured the name should also be changed, since Energy Blast at least implies that it is an ED attack. I figure making the terminology a little more neutral would be a good thing. :)
And I don't disagree. Sorry again, I'm getting really tired all of a sudden; my apologies if my posts are even less clear than usual. :)

[Hugh Neilson]

As cited above, the real proble is balancing a hand attack against both a ranged Energy Blast and the hand to hand attack arising from STR.

EB has some advantages that are commonly overlooked. It can be spread to enhance OCV, or to achieve a small nonselective AoE, at the cost of reduced damage. STR can't do that. I also incorporate that restriction into the Hand Attack limitation.

Looked at from purely the RKA/HKA perspective, the Ranged Blast/Hand Attack comparison makes perfect sense.

From the STR perspective, however, why would I pay 5 points to add 1d6 of HTH damage when I can pay 5 points for +5 STR, with its added benefits, or 4 points for a Martial Arts damage class that will add to my martial maneuvers' damage and other effects, giving more benefits for less points?

[Short Shot]

The other thing to remember is that an OIF is a Limitation. Saying that the Focus allows you to throw it sounds suspiciously like trying to turn a Limitation into an Advantage.* I might allow that once under special circumstances, but if you want to do it routinely and effectively, I'd say buy an EB slot. You can buy it with one recoverable charge if he's not yet skilled enough to have the shield return to him each time.

* Edit: Re-reading this, I realize it sounds like I'm acusing you of something deceptive or underhanded. Not my intent at all, and sorry if it sounded that way.

No problem in the accusation part of it. I didn't take it that way. I will say that the disadvantage of the focus, namely that it can be taken away, is still present.

I think at this point it's going to take a conversation with my GM to see what he'll let me get away with. My issue is that, using existing rules, my character Decker can do up to an 8d6 energy blast with his 40 strength using a random peice of scenery, be it a man hole cover, an i-beam from a construction site or a motorcycle. Since I want to be able to do this more consistently, I am supposed to spend points on it. What I DON'T want to have to do is create a new power that doesn't take advantage of the points I already put into Strength.

[Hyper-Man]

No problem in the accusation part of it. I didn't take it that way. I will say that the disadvantage of the focus, namely that it can be taken away, is still present.

I think at this point it's going to take a conversation with my GM to see what he'll let me get away with. My issue is that, using existing rules, my character Decker can do up to an 8d6 energy blast with his 40 strength using a random peice of scenery, be it a man hole cover, an i-beam from a construction site or a motorcycle. Since I want to be able to do this more consistently, I am supposed to spend points on it. What I DON'T want to have to do is create a new power that doesn't take advantage of the points I already put into Strength.

Well, in fairness, when your character picks up an object of oportunity and throws it he should be suffering OCV penalties for it being unbalanced and/or unaerodynamic. When you PAY for the ability to attack targets at range you don't suffer those or other penalties unless you WISH TO (and subsequently save points in the process).

There have been MANY threads talking about how STR is underpriced. Best advice would be to do a search for a few.

[bigdamnhero]

Well, in fairness, when your character picks up an object of oportunity and throws it he should be suffering OCV penalties for it being unbalanced and/or unaerodynamic. When you PAY for the ability to attack targets at range you don't suffer those or other penalties unless you WISH TO (and subsequently save points in the process).
Also, Grabbing a manhole cover may constitute an attack action, which means you can't grab-&-throw-as-an-attack in the same phase. (See several recent threads.) Plus the inherant limitation that the GM may simply decide there's nothing handy to throw right now.

[archermoo]

Also, Grabbing a manhole cover may constitute an attack action, which means you can't grab-&-throw-as-an-attack in the same phase. (See several recent threads.) Plus the inherant limitation that the GM may simply decide there's nothing handy to throw right now.

Personally, as a Ref, I'd happily let someone use a reasonable focus (like a shield) as an object of opportunity. If they want to throw their focus away to do a ranged attack with it, I've got no problems with that. Of course, until they go over and pick it up again they are minus their focus...