Interesting Aircraft: Dornier 335 Pfeil

[shadowcat1313]

One of the more interesting german aircraft that came too late, it was faster than the P-51 or the Tempest, and the twin engine push me pull you configuration was an interesting idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_335

Dorner 335 Pfeil

Player:

Val Char Cost
45 STR 0
15 DEX 15

18 BODY 1







3 SPD 5




3" RUN -6
0" SWIM -2
0" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 54

Cost Power
Movement Systems
15 1) Twin Engine Front and Rear Configuration: Flight 31", x8 Noncombat (72 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2), Takeoff/Landing (-1), Fuel Dependent (fuel is Very Common; must refuel Once per Hour; -1), Stall Velocity 1/2 Vehicle's Maximum Combat Velocity (-1/4) [Notes: Engines mounted in "Push me-Pull You" Configuration]
8 2) MW-50 Engine Boost System: Flight 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4), 4 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Minute each (-1/4)
Tactical Systems
32 1) 30mm Cannon (Nose-Mounted): RKA 4 1/2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), 15 Charges (+1/4) (105 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Limited Arc Of Fire (0 degrees forward; Only on same horizontal level; -1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
50 2) Twin Winged Mounted 20mm Cannon: RKA 4d6+1, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Autofire (2 shots; +1/4), 150 Charges (+1) (162 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Limited Arc Of Fire (0 degrees forward; Only on same horizontal level; -1), Real Weapon (-1/4)
1 3) External bomb load: Custom Power (1 Active Points) [Notes: 2,200 pounds of bombs]
Electronics
5 1) High Range Radio Perception (Radio Group) (12 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4)
Other Equipment
6 1) Armored cockpit and fuel tanks: +3 DEF (9 Active Points); Activation Roll 14- (-1/2)
8 2) Sealed Cockpit: Life Support (Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing) (16 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1)
Powers Cost: 125


Cost Skill
2 +2 with Combat Piloting (4 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1)
2 +1 with Ranged Combat (5 Active Points); OIF Bulky Fragile (-1 1/4)
Skills Cost: 4



Total Character Cost: 183

Pts. Disadvantage
0 Top Speed in MPH [Notes: 478]
0 Cruising Speed [Notes: 426]
0 Service Ceiling [Notes: 37,400]
0 Rate of Climb [Notes: Climbs to 26,700 feet in 14 minutes 30 seconds]
0 Range [Notes: 857 Miles]
0 Custom Disadvantage
Quirks and Disadvantages
15 1) Distinctive Features: Rare German Fighter (Not Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)
10 2) Physical Limitation: Poor Rear Visibility (Frequently, Slightly Impairing)
10 3) Physical Limitation: Design problems with landing gear (Infrequently, Greatly Impairing)
Disadvantage Points: 35
Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

[Markdoc]

Cool! I actually saw this plane at the Deutches Museum in 1984, but I had no idea it was so advanced in terms of performance - I had gotten the idea from somewhere that it was one the many wacky ideas churned out in the dying days of the war.

cheers, Mark

[shadowcat1313]

the push me pull you configuration has never been common, the only civilian design I have ever seen use it is the Cessna 337 "Skymaster" theres one here at our local airport, but the Skymaster has a twin boom tail, the skymaster saw service on FAC duty in Vietnam.

[austenandrews]

I think Lucius has one of these.

[Kristopher]

One of my favorite WWII aircraft, along with the P-61 Black Widow.

[Lawnmower Boy]

As a long time lurker, this is the thread that got me to register and post. There's a reason that Crimson Shadows is a game. This is a Dornier con job. The performance numbers come from the sales department by way of the Making-Things-Up-With-Math Office. Look at the _weight_ of the plane (and reports on its flying qualities) and you will see another story.
If you want a really high performance late war twin-engine fighter, look at the De Havilland Hornet, Grumman F7 or Kurt Tank's Ta154. Admittedly they look boringly conventional, but there is a reason that all the production fighters have the same configuration. Well, except for the North Amrican P-82.

[shadowcat1313]

ok... I took the specs from an end of war janes reprint, along with stuff from wikipedia, so I can only go with the sources I had

[Lawnmower Boy]

Sources are a common problem. I'm trying to remember which WWII 'plane splatbook I'm basing my slam of the Pfeil on. IIRC correctly, it mentions a proposed 4-engined (so apparently a twin-engined type, but more like the P-82) that would have weighed in at 70,000lb dry. Hey, it's a fighter as big as a B-29! On the bright side, power to burn on pushing the thing through the air. On the downside, probably some manoeuvre issues.

[shadowcat1313]

I have gone with the theory of given 2 sources, Janes and another, unless the other is glaringly different or a lot newer... I will go with Janes

its not perfect, but its been around forever, and I a common enough reference source for various games.. people can make their own conclusions

[Lawnmower Boy]

Sources, sources... The thing about the Do--335 is that it looks amazing, as aggressive as it is unconventional and the numbers are great. We really need to have an altitude attached to the max velocity figure for it to be really useful, but it is certainly a high number.
The point is, too high. This is faster than the (production) de Havilland Hornet, an aircraft with a famously aerodynamic design and a slightly higher thrust-to-weight ratio. How did Dornier do it? Forget the piffle about lower profile drag. Wing area is a much more important contributer than the minimal inefficiences caused by having two wing nacelles. That's why (along with ejection problems) the push-pull ratio never succeeded in a production aircraft.
Except the Do-335. But look at the production details. Here is an aircraft that is coming into squadron service for years, but just never quite arrives. Of course Dornier says that it is because of engine delay problems. Meanwhile, Heinkel manages to get his 219 into limited service. It doesn't help that what is basically a prototype (the A-0) series is being passed off as a production type. Something smells here.
Unfortunately, the people who write about aeroplanes tend to like impressive numbers too much to track down smells. The simple way of avoiding the problem is to compare service aircraft to service aircraft. Once they're in the hands of regular joes, company deception is stripped away and we can begin to see that, just perhaps, the Bristol Blenheim is not a 300mph bomber, for example.

[Kristopher]

At least on the maneuverability question, weight doesn't tell us everything. The P-61 was heavier and larger than almost any WWII fighter, and yet everything you read about it reports that it was surprisingly manueverable.

Northrop evidently did some wonderful things with the control surfaces on that plane to make up for the size and weight.