Mental Powers 101 Question

[Blue]

Here's one of those things I thought I knew the answer to until two of my players had contrasting views to each other on how it works.

When you are performing a mental attack, do you declare what effect you are trying to achieve first or do you roll the effect dice and then choose an effect based on how well you have them controlled?

Mind Control: The hero wants the villain to disarm. This is certainly not in his nature. Does he roll the effect dice then declare what he has the villain do, or does he declare first then if he doesn't get the result he wants the villain can ignore him completely?

[pinecone]

I don't know the official answer but I've always beleived that you have to declare then roll...I gathered this from inferance from how several example powers have been shown , for example Cumlative clearly states that nothing happens till you hit the threashold for the command...etc...

[Blue]

This is how I've done it previously. But the player made a decent argument for it going the other way. So I thought I'd better check, since we couldn't find anything in a cursory search of the book.

[pinecone]

It is a credable argument...but it greatly improves the utility of mental powers...and I always take a skeptical view of "If we do it this way I'm Way more powerful" options...over the years I have done it both ways and "roll first" makes for Psi-pinging as a regular think...i.e.; I'll hope for mind controll,but if I get a poor result I'll settle for X (redirect targetting choice,etc...)

[Lord Liaden]

Here's how it breaks down in the general description of Mental Powers on FREd p. 79: after the character has made a successful ECV Attack Roll, he declares the effect he wants to cause, then he makes his Effect Roll and compares to EGO. It's stated quite explicitly. :cool:

[TheEmerged]

Declare, then roll. My work copy of FREd is MIA again, so I can't find an exact reference -- but I'm reasonably certain of this.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Here's how it breaks down in the general description of Mental Powers on FREd p. 79: after the character has made a successful ECV Attack Roll, he declares the effect he wants to cause, then he makes his Effect Roll and compares to EGO. It's stated quite explicitly. :cool:

Thanks! 3 players with 3 books and we still managed to not find it.

[Demonsong]

My work copy of FREd is MIA again,

Your work copy? How many copies of Fred do you own?

Now that’s a loyalist!!!

[MarkusDark]

Heh, one of the great things about working for a gaming company is that not only can you have such a book in the office, but it can be sitting on your desk, open, with you looking through it and it is okey. Not to mention being able to expense it as 'research material'.

Damn, I miss my Producer days... ;)

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Demonsong
Your work copy? How many copies of Fred do you own?

Now that’s a loyalist!!!

Three, for the record -- My "home" copy, my "work" copy, and my "player loaner" copy which is perpetually loaned out to the players. The problem is that my "work" copy also tends to be the one I take to sessions, and apparently I misplaced it after last Sunday's session.

[rjcurrie]

It is Declare, then Roll. This is discussed on page 73 of FRED under the section titled "Effect Rolls".