Multiple Strikes

[Blue]

I know there have been discussions in the past of how to do multiple attacks. Typically, Autofire comes into play. Here's the situation that came up a few times this weekend and what he's looking for.

On an enormous cargo ship at sea, a flood of ninja board the ship and begin to try and first seize control of the ship, and then failing that, try to unleash the godzilla-homage who is stored in the hull, currently shrunk to 1/4 his original size for stasis.

During the ensuing combat, our hero manages to find lots of points where he has a number of foes in a line so he can attack several at once. He's a speedster and often uses move-by's move-throughs, and a flying-throw maneuver which typically tosses one ninja into another.

Is there a good way to model a speedster running down a line and striking multiple guys along his path? I mean move-bys seem to be good for one guy. Am I missing an obvious mechanic or pre-built martial art that allows this? Or am I likely to have to help him build a power (Say an AOE- hex line, selective, naked advantage for his move-by)?

Thanks as always.

[Hyper-Man]

I know there have been discussions in the past of how to do multiple attacks. Typically, Autofire comes into play. Here's the situation that came up a few times this weekend and what he's looking for.

On an enormous cargo ship at sea, a flood of ninja board the ship and begin to try and first seize control of the ship, and then failing that, try to unleash the godzilla-homage who is stored in the hull, currently shrunk to 1/4 his original size for stasis.

During the ensuing combat, our hero manages to find lots of points where he has a number of foes in a line so he can attack several at once. He's a speedster and often uses move-by's move-throughs, and a flying-throw maneuver which typically tosses one ninja into another.

Is there a good way to model a speedster running down a line and striking multiple guys along his path? I mean move-bys seem to be good for one guy. Am I missing an obvious mechanic or pre-built martial art that allows this? Or am I likely to have to help him build a power (Say an AOE- hex line, selective, naked advantage for his move-by)?

Thanks as always.

Have you considered Penalty Skill Levels vs. Sweep and/or Multiple Move By Penalties?

[Sean Waters]

There are rules in 5ER for multiple move-bys (basically use the sweep rules). I also allow multiple move throughs, although that is not an official ruling: -2" of movement per movethrough, in addition to the OCV penalty.

[Lord Liaden]

A "Multiple Move By" (see the description of Move By in the Combat Maneuvers section of the rulebook) can be used to hit several targets in the same Move, or to hit one target multiple times in a Phase (e.g. by running around the target in a circle). The attack takes a cumulative -2 OCV penalty for all the attacks that the character attempts that Phase. So Hyper-Man's suggestion of PSLs to offset those penalties is a cheap and effective route if the character already has a lot of inches of Movement.

Alternatively you can build an Area Of Effect attack, probably with Selective, but I would suggest making it Any Area rather than Line. That way you can hit characters standing in any arrangement rather than just a straight line. Official characters built this way often take a Limitation on the construct, "Only To Where Character Could Run" (-1/2 IIRC).

[CourtFool]

I would build it as a power construct with Area of Effect (Any Area, Selective). Then he could do a line or even an 'S' shape if needed, provided the ninjas were kind enough to occupy hexes next to one another.

[Blue]

Thanks, folks.

[Hyper-Man]

A lot depends on whether the speedster in question has an attack/trick multipower.

Using multipower:

60 Speedster Stuff: Multipower, 60-point reserve - END=
4u 1) Multiple Hits vs. 1 Target: (Total: 60 Active Cost, 43 Real Cost) HA +4d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/2), Autofire (10 shots; +1) (50 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) (Real Cost: 33) plus +5 with any single Strike (Real Cost: 10) - END=2
4u 2) 1 Hit vs. Multiple Targets: HA +4d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (12" Any Area; +1 1/2), Selective (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) - END=2
- END=

Without multipower:

20 I can hit as many times as I want!: Penalty Skill Levels: +10 vs. Sweep and Multiple Move By Penalties with a tight group of attacks - END=

[pinecone]

If you have Ulti-speed, it has a cool "Trail" version of AE that would be good for this...

[Thia Halmades]

Betcha that would work well for light-cycles, too, now that I think aboot it.

[Hyper-Man]

If you have Ulti-speed, it has a cool "Trail" version of AE that would be good for this...

I have it but not with me right now. I'm just building stuff off the top of my head. I love looking at the USPD, Ultimate Brick and Speedster for ideas but usually end up tweaking them to fit the individual character.

[SuperKlaus]

So what's a "standard Maneuver penalty" not counter-able by PSLs if you can buy PSLs for Move By?

[Silbeg]

20 I can hit as many times as I want!: Penalty Skill Levels: +10 vs. Sweep and Multiple Move By Penalties with a tight group of attacks - END=

Per Steve Long, this actually cannot be Penalty Skill levels. Manuever bonuses are not technically penalties, even if they are negative bonuses.

However, what you could do is take limited CSLs, for example

25 I Can Hit As Many Times As I Want!: +10 w/ HtH, Only To Eliminate Penalties (-1)

That is how we do it in my game. :D

[Hyper-Man]

Per Steve Long, this actually cannot be Penalty Skill levels. Manuever bonuses are not technically penalties, even if they are negative bonuses.

However, what you could do is take limited CSLs, for example

25 I Can Hit As Many Times As I Want!: +10 w/ HtH, Only To Eliminate Penalties (-1)

That is how we do it in my game. :D

Cool,

I was just guessing at the appropriate cost.

[Blue]

Thanks guys. I've relayed what I think to the player and am awaiting his response. Seems pretty straightforward.

[Rapier]

Per Steve Long, this actually cannot be Penalty Skill levels. Manuever bonuses are not technically penalties, even if they are negative bonuses.

However, what you could do is take limited CSLs, for example

25 I Can Hit As Many Times As I Want!: +10 w/ HtH, Only To Eliminate Penalties (-1)

That is how we do it in my game. :D

I've found it's usually cheaper to just purchase 2 pt CSL (eg Single Attack). +10 with MoveBy Penalties. It's fairly cannon these days that you can purchase a lower level SL and pretend it's limited as opposed to purchasing the more expensive and actually limiting it.

[Hyper-Man]

I've found it's usually cheaper to just purchase 2 pt CSL (eg Single Attack). +10 with MoveBy Penalties. It's fairly cannon these days that you can purchase a lower level SL and pretend it's limited as opposed to purchasing the more expensive and actually limiting it.

But it would take a minimum of 3 pt levels to cover both Move By and Sweep penalties. 5 point levels with a (-1) splits the difference.

[Lord Liaden]

Per Steve Long, this actually cannot be Penalty Skill levels. Manuever bonuses are not technically penalties, even if they are negative bonuses.

Hmm... that ruling seems a little arbitrary. I'm not seeing the issue that this distinction is supposed to address. :think:

Since Steve never answers design questions, I may never find satisfaction. :rolleyes:

[Rapier]

Hmm... that ruling seems a little arbitrary. I'm not seeing the issue that this distinction is supposed to address. :think:

Since Steve never answers design questions, I may never find satisfaction. :rolleyes:

I was rather confused at first also. I would think that a Penalty Skill Level would act as a Skill Level to offset Penalties. In fact, PSLs can only offset Hit Location Mods, Range Mods, Throwing Mods and Armour DCV Mods (a rather short list of Penalties, if I do say so, myself). If it's not in that list it has to use a CSL. I understand that there is a slight cost break between a PSL and a CSL, but the fact that you could take that same CSL and say "Only to Offset Penalty" kind of makes that point moot.

I just don't think that we need make such a distinction between a Penalty and a Negative Aspect of a Power/Maneuver. Range has Penalties. Move Thrus have Negative Aspects.

You say potato, I say Penalty. Shrug.

[Hyper-Man]

re: Autofire and number of shots.

When taking AF 10 is the # of hits still determined by every 2 under the required Hit Roll?

[Lord Liaden]

re: Autofire and number of shots.

When taking AF 10 is the # of hits still determined by every 2 under the required Hit Roll?

I've seen nothing in the rules that says otherwise. IMHO Autofire over 5 shots is increasingly a waste of points unless one has an exceptional OCV.

[Silbeg]

I've seen nothing in the rules that says otherwise. IMHO Autofire over 5 shots is increasingly a waste of points unless one has an exceptional OCV.

Or some Autofire skills.
Example: Accurate Sprayfire allows a flat -1 OCV penalty instead of the -1/hex when targetting multiple hexes. Thus, with an AF10, you could hit 10 different hexes with only a minor penalty. Great agent busting!

Add this to Skipover Sprayfire, and you can hit a lot of hexes (with an additional -1, total).

You need to be good to use high rates of AF... even in Suppression Fire mode (the other time that it would make good sense to have a high rate of fire!)