Clunky Software

[Gaelinic]

I don't know anything about programing. I recently obtained the program and all I can say is that it is clunky. I don't know if this is the place where I can complain about my experience. But here are my problems.

1) It takes waaaaaay too long to complete a character on this program. It hangs too long between tasks and freezes between tabs, addition or subtraction of characteristic numbers, or modifying powers.

2) It repeatedly kicks out powers that I've placed in power frameworks or when try to move them around. I have to continuously go back to the powers screen because for some unknown reason it has kicked my powers out of the framework.

3) The program is extremely restrictive when compared to the old one for 4th edition. Why did the programers change the program? It was very modular and easily adaptable. I can't even uncheck boxes for characteristics bought as powers.

4) You can't prorate strength into powers like HTH or HKAs. That was one of the beauties of the old software.

I'm letting you know these problems hopefully so they can be addressed. I'm sure I'll get flamed by other members of this board. But as a customer, I have a right to complain about the problems I see.

The big problem is the hang time between accomplishing each task. Why does it hang there between every little task? Actually, I'm more interested in finding out how that can be addressed.

[Simon]

I'll need to get some more information from you before I can even begin to tell you what's going wrong on your system....for starters:

What are the specs of your system (OS, RAM, Processor, etc)?

What version of the app are you running?

What other apps are you running along with HD (VPN software, voice recognition, Photoshop, etc)?

To address some of the specifics (those that I can):

1) Answer the above questions first.

2) Read the message that it gives you....most likely, the powers have too high of an active cost to be placed in the Multipower (a rules violation) It should never kick out powers that are already in there (unless you edit the framework itself)

3) The program was designed from the ground up to implement the rules of the Hero System, 5th Edition. It does so better than any other chargen on the market.

4) This will likely be coming with v2, but needs to wait on a few issues to be worked out....primarily concerning totalling options (primary, secondary, do not total) and Modifiers on individual purchases.

[Gaelinic]

I've run it on two computers just to make sure. One is a Pentium II 450 with 256 ram. The other is a Pentium III 800.

The powers were not illegal for the framework. I would just modify them in some way or cut and paste them in a more asthetic sequence. When I'd go from the powers tab to the characteristics tab, my point totals would change after a few seconds and I'd go back to the powers to find that those powers in the frameworks have been kicked out.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Gaelinic
I've run it on two computers just to make sure. One is a Pentium II 450 with 256 ram. The other is a Pentium III 800.

Again, I need to know the other applications that are running and what version of HD you're using. Your computers are not "high-end"....if you have a lot of apps running, HD will run slowly as it has to compete with the other apps for CPU time. The current update helps the performance a fair bit over the 1.0 release....which is why I need to know what version you're on.


The powers were not illegal for the framework. I would just modify them in some way or cut and paste them in a more asthetic sequence. When I'd go from the powers tab to the characteristics tab, my point totals would change after a few seconds and I'd go back to the powers to find that those powers in the frameworks have been kicked out.
I've never seen or heard of this before and would be very curious to hear the specific steps you take to make this happen.....if you can make it happen on the current version, that is.

[Dr.Device]

I had problem on one of my characters where a power kept popping out of an elemental control. It was still in the list by position, but it was no longer numbered as part of the EC, and the cost reflected it not being in the EC.

A mentioned above, this happened when I would click over to the characteristics tab.

After putting it back in the EC for the third or fourth time, it finally stayed. I haven't been able to reproduce the problem again, so I didn't report it. well, that and I'm working unsupported on a Mac.

The power was well within the limits of the EC (it was a 40 pt power in a 10 point EC) so that wasn't the problem. I'll mess around with that character some more later and see if I can make it start happening again.

[Killer Shrike]

There were some cut & paste problems when a list was involved and this may be something related to that. I think the current version addresses that problem.


One big thing about HD is that it enforces the rules as printed and this can throw people that have been doing some things incorrectly or are used to playing with house rules.

8 times out of 10 when I run into a wtf rules wise, once I check FREd I discover that HD is applying a rule I had forgotten, wasnt aware of, or house ruled out in the past.


Version 1 can be slow. Thats a known problem that has already been addressed in the v2 alpha. The v2 alpha does not seem to have any of the memory-hog issues v1 suffers from. So take hope there.


Hero Creator had its merits, but it also did not enforce the rules. You could make some pretty serious adjustments to the app, and unscrupulous players were known to abuse this leading to the old software having something of a stigma. The current software does not allow this, which I consider to be a "GOOD THING" tm. Of course this comes with the corrolary downside that its not very customizable, but that is also being addressed in v2. Im hoping that 'customized' characters will be tagged in some way in v2 to preserve the HD "rules applied" stamp of integrity, but we'll see.

One thing I think you'll find is that, though Dan (dsimon, the software developer) is sometimes a little gruff, he is extremely responsive and reasonable requests will be considered. Further, support issues are given rapid response. I realize you are frustrated, but if you'll take a deep breath and answer all of Dan's questions, he'll do his best to figure out what the problem is so that he can address it.

Thanx!

[Vanguard]

Well, I have been having some issues where I would do a copy, and then a multiple paste into a list and everything after the inital paste would bumped outside of the list. When I would nudged one of them into the list and then it would immediatley put all the successively pasted powers into the list.

Secondly, I have a high-end computer system (p4 2.8 Ghz and 1gig of ram) and I still can't do big characters without HD v1.46 lagging and in some cases crashing all together (this was found out in an attempt to create TUV prefabs, which is a fun and festive endeavour, lemme tell ya).

I initially wasn't going to post these problems due to 1) The Cut/paste problem doesn't affect me all that much and 2) Dan has said that v2 shows remarkable performance improvements. Besides, he's already locked v1 so that he can work on v2 (go Dan Go!).

[Killer Shrike]

Remarkable does it justice, Vanguard -- its down right zippy.

[Vanguard]

Yeehaw!! Now .. if we can some how put Dan in a Temporal Displacement field so that he can have all the time he needs to work on it so that it'll ready tomorrow.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Vanguard
Well, I have been having some issues where I would do a copy, and then a multiple paste into a list and everything after the inital paste would bumped outside of the list. When I would nudged one of them into the list and then it would immediatley put all the successively pasted powers into the list.

Secondly, I have a high-end computer system (p4 2.8 Ghz and 1gig of ram) and I still can't do big characters without HD v1.46 lagging and in some cases crashing all together (this was found out in an attempt to create TUV prefabs, which is a fun and festive endeavour, lemme tell ya).

I initially wasn't going to post these problems due to 1) The Cut/paste problem doesn't affect me all that much and 2) Dan has said that v2 shows remarkable performance improvements. Besides, he's already locked v1 so that he can work on v2 (go Dan Go!).
Again, <b>PLEASE</b> tell me the version that you're seeing this behavior on.

Pretty please.

This is getting to be like pulling teeth.

There was a KNOWN issue prior to 1.46 with pasting items multiple times. There was a KNOWN issue prior to 1.46 with pasting lists of items. Both of these have been fixed.

Unless you will give me the information that I keep on asking for, I have to assume that this problem no longer exists.

If you are seeing this behavior on 1.46, then (a) tell me that you're seeing it on 1.46 and (b) tell me the steps that you take to recreate it.

[Vanguard]

Alright Dan, I *DID* Tell you what Version I was using. 1.46, I said so in there somewhere. Honest.

For the paste issue that I'm having, create a list and then create a power. You should have 1 item in your list. Now, copy that power and then paste it, then paste it again, it should bump the 2 pasted items out of the list. Now, click on the second item (the one that should be # 2 but isn't because it got punted), now click the up area and it, again, should take BOTH of your pasted powers and shove both of them into the list (where everything returns to normal).

[Gaelinic]

And another thing, the longer I'm using this program the longer the lag time between tasks. On both computers I've used, if I have the program running for anytime more than 30 minutes, I have to close the character and reopen to ensure that lag times are shortened.

Also, I have to restart the entire program if I leave it alone and my screen saver has kicked in at any point. The reason for this is that certain information displayed on the top bar of interior windows or information on the background page disappears if the screen saver was activated at any point.

I am running version 1.46.

Another question, why is the program coming out with a version 2.0 only six months after it's release? Am I going to have to purchase a new program to address the issues I've pointed out?

[rjcurrie]

Version 2 is currently under development and will not be out until at least December, which will be at least one year after the release of version 1. Hero Games has yet to decide the exact release date of version 2 and probably will not decide it for a few months yet. The current plan is for version 2 to be available to purchasers of version 1 for a reduced price. Note that in addition to addressing some of the speed problems associated with version 1, current plans call for a number of new features to be added in version 2.

Have you tried shutting down your screen saver all together? It is possible that it is interfering with Hero Designer.

Rod

[Simon]

Gaelinic: Please post the following if you want me to help you here:

1) The full specs on your systems. So far, all I know is that one is a PII 450 MHz (extremly low-end) with 256 MB of RAM. And th eother is a PIII 800. That's it. I need the full specs. Post the following:
<ul><li>Processor Speed</li>
<li>RAM</li>
<li>Available RAM when you start HD (you can get this from the Task Manager if you're on Windoze)</li>
<li>OS</li></ul>

2) I need to know the state of your system when you're running into the slowdown. HD v1 is no speed demon, but it's certainly workable, given the system requirements that are listed for it. Please post the following:
<ul><li>Available RAM when HD slows down (from the Task Manager)</li>
<li>The file "trace.log" (it's located in your install directory). Do not restart HD before posting this file, as restarting it will reset the file's contents.</li>
<li>How long you have been running HD before it slows down</li>
<li>What other applications you have running when HD slows down (in particular, other "high load" applications like Photoshop, VPN software, voice recognition software, etc.).</li>
</ul>

Until I have the above information, there really isn't anything that I can do for you.

I'm perfectly willing to help, but I need to know what's going on with your system before I can.

[Nechevo]

I too experence massive slow down with Hero Designer. Usually within 15 to 30 minutes of using the program (seems to depend on how many limitations and advantages I stick onto powers, the more I do the the quicker the program slows down for me). If I run anything else on my computer the program grounds to a halt as well.

I'm running 128 MB of Ram
a 690 MHZ machine.
Windows 98 second edition.
Version 1.44 (haven't tried 1.46 just yet, will after I get the chance to).

You said one can check the Task Manager to find out available RAM. Uh what's that? I don't see that on my system (i'm assuming that's something new for Windows XP)

The only thing I have running while I use Hero Designer is Zone Alarm (I found I can't open anything else otherwise the program grounds to a halt so anytime I use Hero Deisgner I cold boot my system. Even Windows Explorer to check out an exported character forces me to reboot to get the program back to acceptable speeds).

Within 30 minutes or so of using the program things slow down so there is a minimum of 30 to 40 seconds lag time between my selecting anthing (a tab, a power, etc.). Not long after that (15 minutes) I have to reboot the system and re-load the program otherwise things slow down to impossible speeds (ie. lag times greater than a minute after clicking on anything).

I love the program but hate the slow down. I'm curious if there's anything I can do to help alleviate the problem (i'm thinking of upgrading my memory in the hopes that'll help).

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Nechevo: It cant be helped ;)

Your system is on the low end.

Task Manager: Ctrl + Alt + Del once. Clik the button for Task Manger. Not new to XP. Been around in past version of Windows as far back as I can remember.

You shouldnt need to cold boot your system; closing HD should force the app to release the memory its allocating.

[Nechevo]

All that screen has for buttons is to shutdown system, or end task. Nothing to enter the "Task Manager" or to check available memory.

Thanks for the tips, the next time I use the program I'll just close it and open it up again and see if that helps. (although I seem to recall doing that and it works once or twice but eventually cold booting is the only thing to keep the program moving at an acceptable level).

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Nechevo
All that screen has for buttons is to shutdown system, or end task. Nothing to enter the "Task Manager" or to check available memory.

Thanks for the tips, the next time I use the program I'll just close it and open it up again and see if that helps. (although I seem to recall doing that and it works once or twice but eventually cold booting is the only thing to keep the program moving at an acceptable level).

Its been awhile since Ive used a 98 machine, but Im pretty sure there is a Task Manager available. Try going to your control panel and looking there.

[Simon]

If you're seeing delays on the order of minutes (or 15 minutes like you say), then you're running in swap space.

Basically, your system is running out of RAM.

HD requires 128 MB of RAM....there is a setting in the launcher that tells windows to give that much to Java. HD doesn't use it all at any given time....most of it is used for a "garbage heap" (old objects that are waiting to have their resources reclaimed). It's beneficial to allow a fairly large heap rather than continually churning on the reclamation.

V2 addresses the issue of the excessive objects going into the heap....which is where the main performance improvements lie.....but that is neither here nor there at this point.

For your system, even after a cold boot you may still be running some high memory-consuming apps. With 128MB total RAM, you're going to run low no matter what you do, but having any other app open at that point and using up the RAM will just exacerbate the situation and make HD run into swap space that much faster.

If you want to try a hack, you can edit the launcher file that specifies the max memory allowed to HD. The file is in your install directory and is called "HeroDesigner.lax". The line you're looking for will contain the memory setting passed to the java VM, which is "-Xmx128m" change that to "-Xmx64m" to reduce the memory to 64MB.

Once you edit the file, make a copy of it, because each time you run HD, it will reset that memory for you, changing it back to 128MB.

Not an ideal solution, but with the bare minimum on memory, it may be your best bet until v2 comes out.

[Nechevo]

Just for clarification purposes. When I said 15 minues I meant that sometimes my Hero Designer slows down as early as 15 minutes into using the program. Not a 15 minute lag time. I believe the longest lag time i've experienced is 1 minute or two (which is plenty long of course).

I'll give the hack a try and see if it improves my performance.

Thanks for your help.

[Lupus]

On win98, just pressing ctrl-alt-del gets you to what is, essentially, the task manager. But it just lets you close programs. To find out available ram, you need a program. You can also run the Resource Meter, although that doesn't tell you how much RAM is free. It /does/ measure this vague thing called 'system resources'... but often, I've had most of my RAM free, but 'system resources' are still critically low and Windows refuses to do anything. (That's not an HD problem, btw, but a windows thing.)

Myself, I'm running a 500MHz machine, 228Mb RAM, version 1.46. I get big slowdowns like the ones described, but only really when I'm dealing with enormous lists. When I was doing prefabs for firearms, and had /all/ of FREd's firearms on the one character, in the one screen, I'd eventually have slowdowns and be forced to close HD and open it again. I can deal with that, though. :) I'm pushing the program on a system that is barely running it to begin with.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Lupus
On win98, just pressing ctrl-alt-del gets you to what is, essentially, the task manager. But it just lets you close programs. To find out available ram, you need a program. You can also run the Resource Meter, although that doesn't tell you how much RAM is free. It /does/ measure this vague thing called 'system resources'... but often, I've had most of my RAM free, but 'system resources' are still critically low and Windows refuses to do anything. (That's not an HD problem, btw, but a windows thing.)

Myself, I'm running a 500MHz machine, 228Mb RAM, version 1.46. I get big slowdowns like the ones described, but only really when I'm dealing with enormous lists. When I was doing prefabs for firearms, and had /all/ of FREd's firearms on the one character, in the one screen, I'd eventually have slowdowns and be forced to close HD and open it again. I can deal with that, though. :) I'm pushing the program on a system that is barely running it to begin with.
v2 fixes that issue rather nicely (so far).....I've had extremely good results on testing large characters, long lists, etc. No slow downs of any kind so far....including on "low end" systems.

[Nechevo]

Thanks for the suggestion dsimon. After doing the "ROM Hack" I was able to have a player's character sheet open and my E_mail program open (so I could E-mail him notes on his character). The program was able to run well for a while that way. Eventually it started to slow down (say 15 second lag time) which is a big improvement over before which would have really slowed the program down with my E-mail program open at the same time. That work around should help me. I'm still going to have to close the program down and/or reboot my system every so often but probably not as often as before.

Thanks a bunch. Good improvement.

[Lupus]

Originally posted by dsimon
v2 fixes that issue rather nicely (so far).....I've had extremely good results on testing large characters, long lists, etc. No slow downs of any kind so far....including on "low end" systems.

Rockin'. Thanks!

[KA.]

First, let me say that I don't have any performance issues with Hero Designer, it runs fine on my system.

However, for anyone who seems to be having a problem with memory, you might want to try downloading a program called MaxMem.
(here: http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/system/maxmem.htm )

This program displays a little graph that shows memory usage, and helps "clean up" leftover memory from applications that have been closed. My wife's PC runs Windows 98, and sometimes, even after rebooting, there appears to be memory that is not "free". MaxMem does a good job of taking care of this. You can also avoid rebooting, just by running MaxMem's "cleanup" function. It is very simple to use, you don't have to know anything about the nuts and bolts of your system to use it.

Like everything at the AnalogX site, MaxMem is FREE.
You may also want to check out some of his other utilites.

KA