The NEGA-BEAM!

[CrosshairCollie]

I have a minor issue with the Nega-Beam, as presented in the USPD. It's actually NOT the idea of using Summon to cheaply get a ginormous super-devasating energy blast that's nearly impossible to stop. I've actually seen it done before. ;)

While I'm probably being a little *too* anal-retentive with this, technically you're 'summoning' a living thing (or at least semi-sentient; it has an EGO score). And while the power is, in fact, intended for villains who wouldn't care if they were obliterating a living being, if a good guy started using it, would that constitute a 'kill' for a Code vs Killing? Let us assume that said good-guy only uses it for busting robots or buildings.

Does anybody else think that the Nega-Beam might have been better built as an automaton?

[Rune]

It would probably depend upon the special effect. If the special effect was that you summoned (from the beyond/ether) the same creature every time, it wouldn't have "really" died on contact. It just got sent back to wherever it came.

As an aside, I'm not sure why the Nega-Beam was bought with Summoning other than to get the cost breaks.

[Killer Shrike]

It was bought as a summon so that it can take independent actions.

"Fire & Forget"

[CrosshairCollie]

Shrike's right. In High-Tech Enemies, one of the H.A.W.C.S. had a fire-and-forget missile bought as a Follower.

The downside to Rune's idea, as much as I like it, is that the Nega-Beam effect power that the 'summoned energy' has specifies that it destroys the beam. Again, I'm probably just being too rules-bound. But I like hearing others' opinions. ;)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Shrike's right. In High-Tech Enemies, one of the H.A.W.C.S. had a fire-and-forget missile bought as a Follower.

The downside to Rune's idea, as much as I like it, is that the Nega-Beam effect power that the 'summoned energy' has specifies that it destroys the beam. Again, I'm probably just being too rules-bound. But I like hearing others' opinions. ;)

To do Rune's idea, change the text to read "PhyLim: Instantly returns to Nega-Beam dimension upon impact" ;)

If you are a hardcore rules accountant, scrape up a few points and give it EDM 1 dimension NCC.

[Agent X]

I couldn't care less if they decided that all things summoned must be living. I would definitely allow non-living summons in cases like this.

[Zaratustra]

It would probably depend upon the special effect. If the special effect was that you summoned (from the beyond/ ether) the same creature every time, it wouldn't have "really" died on contact. It just got sent back to wherever it came.


So the player would have his very own pet Nega-Beam?

[CrosshairCollie]

Originally posted by Zaratustra
So the player would have his very own pet Nega-Beam?

"Here boy! Here boy! Here Nega-Beam, good Nega-Beam. Now ... SIC DR. DESTROYER!" *FWAM!* "Good boy!"

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Shrike's right. In High-Tech Enemies, one of the H.A.W.C.S. had a fire-and-forget missile bought as a Follower.

Actually, Downtown had it bought as a vehicle. Sort of the precurser to the Star Hero missile writeups.

[Gary Ciaramella]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
I have a minor issue with the Nega-Beam, as presented in the USPD. It's actually NOT the idea of using Summon to cheaply get a ginormous super-devasating energy blast that's nearly impossible to stop. I've actually seen it done before. ;)

While I'm probably being a little *too* anal-retentive with this, technically you're 'summoning' a living thing (or at least semi-sentient; it has an EGO score). And while the power is, in fact, intended for villains who wouldn't care if they were obliterating a living being, if a good guy started using it, would that constitute a 'kill' for a Code vs Killing? Let us assume that said good-guy only uses it for busting robots or buildings.

Does anybody else think that the Nega-Beam might have been better built as an automaton?

The thing you have to keep in mind is that the Nega-Beam is NOT a living being... the use of summon is just the way that the SPECIAL EFFECT in question could be created... that of a energy blast capable of targetting and following a character and if need be, making adjustments as the circumstances change. While it is using a power that most often is used to summon living creatures, the Nega-Beam is NOT living.

[Gary Ciaramella]

Another thought... think of it this way. A normal energy blast is most often thought of as just that... energy. But in fact, special effects can make that to be not the case... while it can be flame or lasers or sonics... it can also be a summoned critter that darts over to the target, bites him and then runs away, it's task completed.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gary Ciaramella
Another thought... think of it this way. A normal energy blast is most often thought of as just that... energy. But in fact, special effects can make that to be not the case... while it can be flame or lasers or sonics... it can also be a summoned critter that darts over to the target, bites him and then runs away, it's task completed. The Nega-Beam is supposed to be able to "miss" and then chase after the character in the next phase and the next and the next. That's why energy blast won't work.

[Gary Ciaramella]

Originally posted by Agent X
The Nega-Beam is supposed to be able to "miss" and then chase after the character in the next phase and the next and the next. That's why energy blast won't work.

I know... I was meaning to illustrate how special effects can totally alter how a power is percieved. An energy blast, which is usually considered an unliving thing, can actually be living if the right special effect is applied, and a summoned creature, usually thought to be living, can be unliving if the special effect defines it to be so.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gary Ciaramella
I know... I was meaning to illustrate how special effects can totally alter how a power is percieved. An energy blast, which is usually considered an unliving thing, can actually be living if the right special effect is applied, and a summoned creature, usually thought to be living, can be unliving if the special effect defines it to be so. Oh. :confused: :eek:

Guess I should have read more carefully.

[CrosshairCollie]

Thanks, Gary, that helps. Now i just gotta find a way to afford that bad boy, and get a GM who'll let me tote it around for emergencies. ;)

[Ndreare]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Thanks, Gary, that helps. Now i just gotta find a way to afford that bad boy, and get a GM who'll let me tote it around for emergencies. ;)

Emergencies baa

I would start using this as my standard attack power think of the crime control aspect when villains learn if you even here of them committing a crime you will hunt them down and KILL them out rite.

[CrosshairCollie]

Sorry, I'm a Code Against Killing (20 pts) kinda hero.

[Black Rose]

Then convert the Negabolt(tm) into the Goodiebolt(pending)! Turn all of the KA dice into Transform, split equally between Mental and Spiritual, and have the change be "target into target who is basically good and decent." Whatcha think?

[Tamashii2000]

Originally posted by Black Rose
Then convert the Negabolt(tm) into the Goodiebolt(pending)! Turn all of the KA dice into Transform, split equally between Mental and Spiritual, and have the change be "target into target who is basically good and decent." Whatcha think?

your evil.. .evil I tell you;)

[CrosshairCollie]

Redemption can't be forced; it has to be achieved through individual thought and action, and only through free-will; otherwise, it's merely slavery.

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie
Redemption can't be forced; it has to be achieved through individual thought and action, and only through free-will; otherwise, it's merely slavery.

Uh huh, see "Squadron Supreme", or "A Clockwork Orange", for that matter, but a really nice idea.

The "fire and forget" thing doesn't really work well for heroes; what if things go wrong? Even stuff like NND attacks (which would not normally do BODY) could have fatal consequences (for lots of people) if the victim were, say, driving at the time. A villain might not care.

[CrosshairCollie]

Actually, the Squadron Supreme LS is the main reason I say that. Using mind control to make people be not-evil is taking away the free will that is an inalienable right of all sentient beings.

'Fire and Forget' means that the weapon in question homes in on its target. In RL, it applies to stuff like guided missiles. With the Nega-Beam, you basically designate a target, and the beam seeks him out unerringly (it even has Desolidification so it passes through barriers and innocent targets to get there).

[Crimson Arrow]

I am not quite sure if you're backing me up or disagreeing with me about "fire and forget". Perhaps it was my comment about dangerous consequences.

What I meant about it being a danger to others was that, if the target gets into a car and drives off and the Nega-Beam strikes while the victim is at the wheel, a massive traffic accident could be caused. A villain wouldn't care, but a hero would.

[CrosshairCollie]

I was technically disagreeing, as I thought you meant that the beam was hitting an innocent bystander in a car instead of its designated target (say, the villain was fleeing down a highway). My bad.

No character I'd ever play would target the baddie himself with this power; it's simply far too lethal. As in, utterly lethal. But I do take your point for other 'heroes' that might want this bad boy.