Background Skill Multipliers

[MandraketheBard]

I would like to implement Background Skill Multipliers (The Ultimate Skill - pg 51) for the skill enhancers Linguist and Traveler in a campaign I am running but have not yet found any implementation of this option in the program, nor do I see an easy way to implement it (my XML is a bit rusty).

Would someone please tell me (a) where it is implemented in the program, (b) when or if it is likely to be implemented, or (c) how to create a workaround if they know of one. Alternatively, if there is no information on how to do it within the current program structure, then I would like to request that it be added to the list of Feature Requests.

I apologize if this has been addressed previously but I just purchased HD3 and could find no evidence of the issue being addressed in the forums or updates list.

Thank you.

P.S. - Despite this small issue, I'm finding the new program to be everything promised in terms of stability, speed, and reliability. Kudos to Dan and anyone else who worked on the code. :)

[Starwolf]

I would like to implement Background Skill Multipliers (The Ultimate Skill - pg 51) for the skill enhancers Linguist and Traveler in a campaign I am running but have not yet found any implementation of this option in the program, nor do I see an easy way to implement it (my XML is a bit rusty).

Would someone please tell me (a) where it is implemented in the program, (b) when or if it is likely to be implemented, or (c) how to create a workaround if they know of one. Alternatively, if there is no information on how to do it within the current program structure, then I would like to request that it be added to the list of Feature Requests.

I apologize if this has been addressed previously but I just purchased HD3 and could find no evidence of the issue being addressed in the forums or updates list.

Thank you.

P.S. - Despite this small issue, I'm finding the new program to be everything promised in terms of stability, speed, and reliability. Kudos to Dan and anyone else who worked on the code. :)

Custom skill enhancers have come up before (even before the advent of the Ultimate Skill). The work around so far is to create a list and add the appropriate skills to it. Then apply a 1 point deficite to the cost of the skills by adding a -1 point custom adder to the list, not the individual skills. Finally make sure you name the something approriate.

[MandraketheBard]

Originally posted by Starwolf
Custom skill enhancers have come up before (even before the advent of the Ultimate Skill). The work around so far is to create a list and add the appropriate skills to it. Then apply a 1 point deficite to the cost of the skills by adding a -1 point custom adder to the list, not the individual skills. Finally make sure you name the something approriate.


While I appreciate the attempt, that isn't exactly what I was asking about. The procedure you describe (simple enough, I know) would allow me to jury-rig a custom skill enhancer of exactly the same sort as already exists, subtracting 1 from the cost of each appropriate skill. This functionality would also be simpler if the Expert skill enhancer were implemented, but I'm not gonna worry about that right now since that was always an easy fix.

No, what I was asking about was not standard skill enhancers but the optional Background Skill Multipliers introduced, as I indicated in the original post, in The Ultimate Skill pg 51. This is a different way of doing skill enhancers in which each purchase of the skill price multiplies the number of skills bought rather than just giving a discount...it's a way of encouraging the purchase of very large numbers of certain types of background skill and a way of making that feasible.

Example: If I'm using Linguist as a Skill Multiplier rather than an original version skill enhancer, then spending 2 points gets me 1 language with fluent conversation, 4 points gets me 2 languages at that level, 6 points gets me 4 languages, 8 points gets me 8 languages, 10 points gets me 16 languages, etc.

That's the sort of functionality I was hoping to find in HD3, the ability to do that if I choose to allow it. So is there anyone who can help ?

[Starwolf]

Ah, I guess I misunderstood. I agree that a multiplier option would be very cool. In the meantime you could build a sort of work around using prefabs. Build a language multiplier prefab containing the langauge multiplier groups with costs adjusted to the correct levels by use of custom adders. I would simply list the languages in the the group slots as langauge 1, language 2, etc.

Once constructed with a couple clicks you could load the prefab and and select the appropriate skill level multiplier group, then edit the individual skills selcted to represent the skill names. For example if you purchased the 4 languages for 6 points prefab, you would edit the language names to spanish, french, farsi, and italian. Using this technique would at least cause the point costs to come out correctly. This is just one idea for a work around until or if Dan comes up with built in functionality.

[ghost-angel]

Easiest solution is to simply use Custom Skill, set it to the appropriate point expenditure and list which Lanauges you know. Or buy each language seperately and use the Custom Adder to reduce the cost to 0 (or click Native Language for each one, if that's possible - hvnt tried to make more than one lang native).

[Scott Baker]

(or click Native Language for each one, if that's possible - hvnt tried to make more than one lang native).

FYI: You can't have more than one Native language selection. It disappears as an option once you have one language selected as such.

Scott Baker

[Simon]

Check today's update.

You'll need to enable Skill Multipliers under the campaign rules (which will change the Skill Enhancers to Skill Multipliers).

[MandraketheBard]

Thanks for the update. :)

One question. Will that allow us to have some Skill Enhancers be multipliers and some be regular skill enhancers, or do we have to do it all-or-nothing ? If it's currently all-or-nothing, I'd like to request that you consider the possibility of allowing us the functionality of being able to choose more specifically... i.e. for example, to be able to make Traveler work as a multiplier while Jack of All Trades functions as a regular "1-point discount."

I recognize that this is probably quite a bit more problematic to implement, so I won't be upset or offended if such functionality isn't seen anytime soon.

Thanks again for addressing the core request. :)

[Simon]

It's all or nothing and will be remaining that way, largely to keep things simple for the user (any other solution would require significantly more work in defining abilities in general -- so you could specify which list a given ability should fall into, what type a given enhancer/multiplier was, etc.).

[Simon]

I should also note that should you want both Skill Multipliers and Skill Enhancers, it's relatively simple to "roll your own" Skill Enhancer within HD -- so the existing functionality will accomodate the (very rare) need for both to be present without complicating matters for the majority of users.

[Teflon Billy]

The Science Skill Multiplier works fine, but the Linguist doesn't get the costs quite right.

It allows me to add imitate dialects languages at no extra cost (beyond the cost for that many languages) when it should cost 5 points minus the cost of basic conversation or fluent conversation (depending on the level of Linguist multiplier.)

TB

[Simon]

The Science Skill Multiplier works fine, but the Linguist doesn't get the costs quite right.

It allows me to add imitate dialects languages at no extra cost (beyond the cost for that many languages) when it should cost 5 points minus the cost of basic conversation or fluent conversation (depending on the level of Linguist multiplier.)

TB
Whoops -- missed that one.

I just pushed up a new copy of the update which will take care of that issue.

[MandraketheBard]

The basic function of skill multipliers seems to be working fine...it calculates correctly as far as the number of skills is concerned. There is a problem, however, with the basic costs. The program seems to have locked all costs at 2 points per "level" bought with the skill multiplier. Other costs seem to be locked out.

Example 1: When I tried to purchase Scientist and Science Skills, the skill multiplier cost 2 points per "level" and each of the science skills could only be purchased at the 11- "general" level. Therefore, after 8 skills the Scientist list cost 8 points and all the skills were at 11-...that was the only way I was allowed to do it.

Example 2: When I tried the same trick with Linguist and the languages, I was able to choose any level I wanted for the languages (fluent, idiomatic, whatever) and they were displayed as such in the list, but the Linguist list cost was still only 2 points per level no matter what I put into it (i.e. 2pts for 1 lang, 4pts for 2 lang, 6pts for 4 lang, etc.)

[Simon]

The basic function of skill multipliers seems to be working fine...it calculates correctly as far as the number of skills is concerned. There is a problem, however, with the basic costs. The program seems to have locked all costs at 2 points per "level" bought with the skill multiplier. Other costs seem to be locked out.

Example 1: When I tried to purchase Scientist and Science Skills, the skill multiplier cost 2 points per "level" and each of the science skills could only be purchased at the 11- "general" level. Therefore, after 8 skills the Scientist list cost 8 points and all the skills were at 11-...that was the only way I was allowed to do it.

Example 2: When I tried the same trick with Linguist and the languages, I was able to choose any level I wanted for the languages (fluent, idiomatic, whatever) and they were displayed as such in the list, but the Linguist list cost was still only 2 points per level no matter what I put into it (i.e. 2pts for 1 lang, 4pts for 2 lang, 6pts for 4 lang, etc.)
1) Edit the Skill Multiplier and change it from General (11-) to INT-based. The cost of each ability will change accordingly.

2) See previous post.

[MandraketheBard]

LOL We were editing our responses at the same time.

Soon as I posted and saw your earlier response I downloaded the new update version. Fas I can tell, editing the Skill Multiplier appears to be working perfectly.

I do have small Feature Request though, to round the whole thing out. I noticed that Linguist treats "basic" languages as 2-point levels and "fluent conversation" languages as 3-point levels. There it stops. At first I was wondering if we can extend that , but I think that would require rewriting all the skill multipliers at once which is an unreasonable request. Instead, perhaps you could indicate somewhere what the XML format for the skill multipliers is so someone could manually edit what level of language fluency is indicated by a 2-point or 3-point multiplier level.

Example: So someone could edit the template such that 2-point multiplier levels buy "fluent conversation" at no additional cost and 3-point levels would buy "completely fluent" at no additional cost.

This is quick and very effective work, BTW. Either you're a much better code monkey than I realized, or you'd already been working on this before I posted. :)

BTW, on the subject of XML templates...where can we get a look at the version 3 Main template, to make modifications easier ?

[Simon]

The "level" of Language that is discounted for the 2 and 3 point Skill Multiplier is determined by the rules (as outlined in TUS).

At this point in time, I'm not opening this up to editing (too many levels of recursion necessary to accommodate that). You could approximate different levels by the assignment of a negative Common "Adder" on the Skill Multiplier.


You can find Main.hdt inside of the main JAR file for the program (leave it in the JAR file -- just copy it out as needed for reference).