Best Pre-5th Edition Material?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I'm looking to find more Champions related material to use with my RPG group. What was some of the better 4th edition stuff? I'm thinking mostly about the material that probably won't be re-printed in 5th edition. I've heard Classic Organizations was good. Any others?

Rob

[Deacon Blues]

The first VIPER book is fantastic. I've cribbed from it in creating similar villainous organizations, and the supervillains therein work well independently of VIPER. Plus, the Random Villainy Chart(tm)! Plus, the original "Microfilm Madness" scenario!

[TheEmerged]

You'll probably hear at least a few people recommend most of the pre-5th products. Exceptions would probably be The Mutant Files, European Enemies, and High Tech Enemies -- and I'm sure even they have proponents.

Eliminating any book already reprinted, personally I would most recommend...

Champions of the North (some nice examples of stretching the rules, and one of the few 4th Edition character books with characters that actually resembled things players would use -- also some of the best backstory material for the characters under 4th).

Strikefore -- generally accepted as the best HERO product to date, and hard to find as a result.

Classic Organizations. The material here is pretty uneven, but includes two of the best things about the 4th Ed Champions Universe -- neither of which has any real chance of making it into the DOJ-era Champions Universe.

Ultimate Mentalist. Probably going to be reprinted at some point, it's nonetheless very good at its subject matter.

[Bill_CCHKK]

I'm a big fan of the 4th edition Mind Games. Much of the material is reprinted in CKC and Millenium City (Mind Games details the organization PSI), the original had some good ideas that weren't brought forward in the 5E update.

[GestaltBennie]

Of the ones unlikely to be reprinted or reworked…

“Strike Force” by Aaron Allston. All of Aaron’s Hero System work is worth having (and pressing into one’s bosom in delight), but this is his best published Champions work. “The Blood and Dr. McQuark” is also an exceptional piece and one I’d recommend to Champions fans.
“Underworld Enemies”, by Chris Avellone. A early work by one of the best (and most twisted minds in the industry). Avellone’s other Dark Champions work (“Widows and Orphans” and “Asylum”) are both highly recommended.
“Kingdom of Champions” by Phil Masters. A good look at Britain for a superhero role-play game, though the abbreviated format for many of the characters is a bit of a pain. “Champions of the North” by Jon Mattson, which provides a similar treatment for Canada, is especially beloved by GMs of low point games, but skirts some of the more controversial political issues (Quebec is particularly underrepresented).
“To Serve and Protect” by Scott Heine. A great look at a superhero team, and a nifty adventure to boot.
“Shadows of the City” by Scott Sigler. The best Hero adventures are by people named Scott, and this one, involving a superhuman cultist, is a good one.
“VOICE of Doom” by Steve Perrin, “The Great Supervillain Contest” by Dennis Mallonee, and "ATLAS Unleashed" are all nifty modules to run.

I’m assuming most of the content of Steve’s Dark Champions books, San Angelo, and Normals Unbound will be redone at some point, othewrise I’d also recommend them.

[Le Schtroumpf]

At the time you could almost tour Britain on Kingdom Of Champions. Very cool book.

This may sound like a suck up considering the post immediatly north, but I got the most use out of Day of the Destroyer. Even ported it over to an espionage campaign (had to scale it down a bit mind you).

[Arthur]

One of my favorites (the only pre-5th supplement I still have, AAMOF) is Champions in 3D. It's based on the notion of "alternate dimensions". Horror World (an alternate reality where the pulp heroes tried to stop the summoning of a Lovecraft-style horror and failed is one of the most gripping depictions of horror in an RPG supplement.

I don't see it mentioned much, so I assume it's not very popular. It's underrated, IMO.

[don]

I too liked Champions in 3-D. It has a lot of good advice for setting up and running alternate dimension games, and a fun run of weird and truly neat ideas for places to go.

Underworld Enemies was good for low-level, street-level campaigns, and even has a neat, develop to your tastes storyline running through it.

Strike Force is tops, and a lot of great things to lift from it.

And I also liked High-Tech Enemies, which had a neat thrust to many of the villains, and interesting ideas for tech-based characters. Kind of related, because of the primary master villain of High-Tech and his company, is Corporations...underrated, I believe, but a great rundown of corporations and companies in the Champions Universe, and very useful advice on using them in campaigns. Indeed, with the 5e focus on applicability and versatility, this is a product that could be done really well in a souped-up version.

Finally, I would recommend against the previous Champions Universe sourcebook. An admirable attempt at unifying the CU, it really does tend to ramble, and fall apart in places, although some neat things can be lifted from it. Ultimately, though, 5e CU and Champions sourcebook itself do the job better.

Don Walsh

[Chris Goodwin]

For me, in no particular order:

* Strike Force
* Blood and Dr. McQuark
* Danger International
* Robot Warriors
* Fantasy Hero
* Mystic Masters
* Enemies: Villainy Unbound (hi, Scott! No, not sucking up!)
* The Gestalt universe (hi again Scott! still not sucking up!) based on the campaign writeups from Red October, so far unpublished
* The Golden Age of Champions

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by TheEmerged
You'll probably hear at least a few people recommend most of the pre-5th products. Exceptions would probably be The Mutant Files, European Enemies, and High Tech Enemies -- and I'm sure even they have proponents.


I would be one of those.

The Mutant Files is a weird book, but that was probably inevitable. It is very much a Champions version of the X-Men circa 1990. Lots of angst, conspiracies that go to the very top of the government, and power levels that would make most GMs blanch. Ever notice how an individual X-man would go to town on a horde of guys that the entire Fantastic Four would consider nasty? That is what The Mutant Underground can do to guys the 4th Ed Champions would find challenging.

European Enemies, was just sad. Not a lot of imagination. Lots of national stereotypes, and some serious math and rules errors. Hard to defend as a good product. I will not try.

High-Tech enemies was half great. It had a couple of great "theme" mercenary teams that could hold their own with the player characters in a fight and even be used as central villains. It had a pretty decent cyborg team that can be a great moral counterpoint to the "tech is the way" attitude some gadgeteers have. (Cy-Force really makes more sense if the Cyberknights from Allies are NPCs, the best part of that book IMHO). It had a moderate (and superfluous) master villain. The book also had a realllly lame set of space aliens (how are they high tech again?) and one of the worst Matilda May characters I have seen in a gaming supplement.

I have used characters from Mutant Files & High-Tech extensively in my game. The teams had relationships that went beyond "A likes B but distrusts C" and connections into the larger world. It was easier to see them as part of a larger superhuman community than it was for characters from alot of the other enemies books. I also likes how strong the concepts and themes of the characters were. I think High Tech enemies still boasts the only super villian team that actually looks like a team. (The Deconstruction Company, anybody know if there character art was ever made avalible anywhere?)

To be honest, I was suprised to find out how many detractors these two books had.

[RevHooligan]

Kingdom of Champions is useful for ANY game system. I loved the old Ninja Hero, I haven't compared it to the new one but I assume the good stuff is still there.
3D was very useful for my "Crosstime Caper" ripoff.
I also still use Dark Champions, FH and it's companions.


And Six String Samurai is the best movie ever.

[Crimson Arrow]

"Strike Force", "VOICE of Doom", and "To Serve and Protect" frequently get good reviews on these boards, but they were pre-4th Ed. The first four items one archer's list are also from that era.

Out of the 4th Ed. stuff, I'd say all of my favourites have already come up. I think the one I liked most was "Champions in 3-D". Arthur's analysis of the Horror World is spot on (it even has rules for 4th Ed. style mind-blasting insanity in the style of "Call of Cthulhu"). It has a few other detailed worlds and lots of pages of ideas, for the GM to flesh out.

"Kingdom of Champions" and "Champions of the North" were both great, although the former had some poor art in places and the layout was dreadful, at times. The material made up for it.

[Lord Liaden]

I have no disagreement with what other people have already suggested, but because what would be "good" and "useful" to you would depend on what you want to get out of the books, I'm going to try to focus my suggestions on elements at which certain books shine. All of the books below are for 4E, and all are of high quality:

Classic Enemies is a general use compendium of supervillains of all types and power levels. Although many of these villains were updated to 5E, quite a few were not, and the ones that were often differ from the versions presented in CE. CE also includes a detailed writeup of the Stronghold super prison.

Kingdom of Champions and Champions of the North are both very good sourcebooks for campaigning in England and Canada respectively, with tips on international gaming in general. Lots of interesting characters and useful information, although some references are a little dated now.

Golden Age Champions is the book to get if you like that type of campaign. Good historical information, lots of plot ideas, notes on the style and flavor of Golden Age gaming, and plenty of period-style characters.

Normals Unbound provides many normal-level characters of all kinds to use as interesting encounters, contacts, resources, rivals or DNPCs. One of the most generally useful 4E supplements.

Mystic Masters and The Ultimate Super Mage are both valuable for campaigns focussing on comic-book style magic a la Dr. Strange. MM has a more fully-fleshed campaign setting that you can run out of the box, while USM gives you more resources for developing your own campaign. Both books admirably describe the conventions of the super-magic subgenre, but USM is much broader in scope. USM is still available in the Online Store, but only as an e-book. Several characters from both books have been mentioned as part of the official 5E Champions Universe.

The Ultimate Mentalist is almost required if mentalists are going to be a significant part of your campaign. Some of the rules additions and clarifications made it into 5E, but the book still adds many elaborations, options and campaign suggestions to greatly expand the possibilities for using mentalists. It is more a reference and idea book, though, with few characters included.

Watchers of the Dragon is in many ways a companion piece to The Ultimate Martial Artist. If you have any interest in martial artist NPCs, Oriental characters, creatures based on Eastern myths, or Oriental style magic, this book has plenty of all of that in the envelope of an interesting multi-part adventure. Quite a few of these characters have been mentioned as being part of the official 5E Champions Universe.

Champions in 3-D provides many tips on how to run supers games that cross into alternate worlds, other dimensions etc. Four fully-developed other worlds are provided, as well as short descriptions of many others and a random dimension generator. The flavor of these worlds runs from whimsical to ultra grim.

Invasions: Target Earth breaks down the stages of a comic-book style invasion of Earth in considerable detail, showing you how to set one up, run through it, deal with the aftermath, etc. It describes different types of invaders and how they operate, and provides sample writeups, plus an entire sample invasion campaign.

Atlantis not only portrays that underwater kingdom in detail - history, geography, NPCs, creatures, Atlantean magic, etc. - but provides extensive rules and guidelines for adventuring in an underwater environment, plus other aquatic villains and useful equipment and vehicles. Although a number of details differ from the 5E CU version of Atlantis, a great deal of it is remarkably similar and could easily be adapted.

If you're interested in using the PRIMUS organization in your campaign, I'd recommend the PRIMUS sourcebook available as an e-book in the Online Store. It goes into detail on how PRIMUS operates, with lots of interesting characters, equipment and ideas. This is almost certainly the basis for any future update of the organization.

If your interests run toward "street level" supers games in the vein of Batman, Daredevil or the Punisher, Dark Champions: Heroes of Vengeance gives you lots of guidelines on the conventions for that style of game, plus background information about real world criminal and law-enforcement organizations, writeups for guns and other equipment, and many interesting NPCs.

[Agent X]

4th Ed. Champions Universe is great. One of the weaknesses some cite I thought was one of its strengths. The fact that it did not have strong unifying theme made it feel very much like the comic books you read from DC or Marvel. It also has a great adventure in the back of the book that doesn't get talked about enough on these boards.

Classic Organizations and Viper combine to give you lots of reptilian villains and some interesting ideas.

To Serve and Protect is a great example of how a superhero team can be built.

Don't look for Strikeforce. I don't need any more competition for this rare gem.:)

I go for books that tend not to be too hero heavy so I would place Kingdom of Champions, Champions of the North, and Allies down on the list. I have heroes. I'm looking for villains.

[Southern Cross]

Actually,I enjoyed Allies.Not only did it introduce several possible allies,it introduced several possible foes:
(1) The Aryan.A Neo-Nazi trying to be a hero.That's right-a facist who realized that Nazism needed a new look.
(2)The Flashmen.Fakers-jerks who take the credit from more deserving heroes.
(3)Zen Scorpion.A former member of Zencorp's Zen Team,this guy pretends to be a "honorable supervillain".This is a lie,as is his entire background.
(4)Interference.The unluckiest hero on Earth.
I can also recommend Enemies:Assemble.Any book that can make Foxbat a dangerous opponent deserves to be read.

[death tribble]

I would back the chorus on the Viper Sourcebook, To Serve and Protect, Strike Force and the Kingdom of Champions.
But I liked most of the stuff. Some of the later enemies books like the International File and Scourge of the Deep I found not as good.

Now to encite some hatred. I have the Strike Force book but I also have a spare copy. Condition not too good but readable.
Unfortunately I have the Atlantic between me and therest of you.

[Brandi]

Originally posted by Jhamin
High-Tech enemies was half great. ... The book also had a realllly lame set of space aliens (how are they high tech again?) and one of the worst Matilda May characters I have seen in a gaming supplement.


Matilda May? Is this anything like the eponymous "Mary Sue" of bad fanfiction (is that redundant) fame?

[Just A Guy Name]

I'm surprised more people do not favourably remember The Blood And Dr. McQuark. The section on the Dr. never worked for me, but the Blood continues to be a presence in my games to this day. Some of the family are featured prominently in the Strikeforce sourcebook,also.

[Bartman]

Originally posted by Just A Guy Name
I'm surprised more people do not favourably remember The Blood And Dr. McQuark. The section on the Dr. never worked for me, but the Blood continues to be a presence in my games to this day. Some of the family are featured prominently in the Strikeforce sourcebook,also.

I remember The Blood fondly. The problem is I haven't had a copy of the book since about '87, so I have a hard time remembering enough about it to comment on it. I fact a lot of the earliest suppliments are rare enough that very little is said about any of them good or bad.

[Lord Liaden]

This raises a point worth clarifying: Dr. MID-Nite, you specifically mentioned 4th Edition material. Is that as far back in the Champions stuff as you wish to go, or would you also be interested in 3rd Ed. or earlier? Lots of it is quite good and useful, but the differences between 3E and 5E are much larger than 4E and 5E, making conversion more of a chore.

Of the books already favorably mentioned, the following are pre-4E: Strike Force, The Blood and Dr. McQuark, To Serve and Protect, VOICE of Doom, The Great Supervillain Contest, and Enemies: Villainy Unbound. Robot Warriors and Danger International are also pre-4E, but are separate games from 3E Champions from when the HERO System wasn't unified, so have other differences. I'd be happy to give input on any of these books if you'd like. :)

[tiger]

Classic Organizations, Mostly for C.L.O.W.N. & Demon
Classic Enemies
Viper
Mind Games

[Tom McCarthy]

Classic Enemies, Mind Games, VIPER, all great books with tons of use. Zodiac Conspiracy was great inspiration, but had some issues regarding details; ditto for Alien Enemies. Champions Presents #1 & 2 were strong material, as was Champions in 3-D.

High-Tech Enemies and Mutant File had a lower percentage of the material used, as did Allies, Atlantis, Watchers of the Dragon (great read, though), Hudson City Blues and Enemies Assemble or Enemies For Hire.

[TheEmerged]

Speaking for myself? Mutant Files and High Tech have some of the "cheapest" characters I've seen in published form -- and I mean "cheap" as in "bad" not as in inexpensive. I also have a personal gripe with High Tech because the book attempts to excuse what is one of the dumbest thematic mistakes of 4th Edition (The Defender Exploit).

I can't believe I forgot Champions 3-D. Yeah, that belongs on any "must buy" list of previous Champions material. A couple of their counterfactuals are... let's be nice and say dodgy. They are however dodgy in ways that are true to superheroic genre convention (if laughable by counterfactual genre convention), so I'll excuse them.

[tiger]

I'd like them to re-do the Mutant file. Aim it more at Genocide/IAH and some other anti & pro mutant groups.

Plus a nice group of mutants villains to add to the CKC list. Can never have to many villains.

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Brandi
Matilda May? Is this anything like the eponymous "Mary Sue" of bad fanfiction (is that redundant) fame?

I've heard both terms used interchangeably.

[Agent Escafarc]

All good choice so far but the one pre-5th product that gets the most use in my game is: The Great Supervillain Contest it has grown so big that there is a underground following (Betting lines, Pay-per-views, Fantasy leagues, etc.)

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Well, I'm open to any of the earlier stuff, but pre-4th edition stuff is REALLY hard to find these days, so i mentioned 4th edition as I thought more people would be aware of it and and I'd be more likely to find them if I wanted them. Some of the old stuff I do have is: Alien Enemies(haven't used much), Challenges For Champions(using Dr. Megaton extensively), Shadows of The City(ran the entire thing as my first story arc, Champions in 3D(ran Nazi World and Backworld), and Classic Enemies(not used too much except a 5th edition revamp of Beamline). Now, I thought Strike Force was a campaign book. I have my own campaign and hero group...so I doubt that will be of much use to me. I'd love to get Voice of Doom, but again..pre 4th Edition is VERY hard to find. My players tend to enjoy epic storylines...where a lot is on the line..along with a fair amount of NPC interaction.

Rob

[Southern Cross]

Voice of Doom is well worth getting.It features a NPC team that has been targeted for death by a ruthless supervillain team (the V.O.I.C.E of the title).These varlets are as ruthless as Eurostar,and,unlke Fiacho & Co.,could pop up anywhere on the planet.(I should really update my 4th Edition revisions to FREd).

[Southern Cross]

I only know of Matilda May from Lifeforce.In it,she played the beautiful space vampire,and spent most of the film in the nude.

[Southern Cross]

This is my 49th post.One more till I change my title to Competent Normal.And incidentally,I also have The Corolis Effect and the Champions mini-series.If you wish to update the Dr. Arcane write-up,the version in The Corolis Effect is missing the Computer Programming skill.(Which originally cost 5 points in Champions.)
Furthermore,if Dr. Arcane was accurately described in the comic,a Fifth Edition version would use the "Astral Form" type of Duplication, not conventional Desolidification.

[Southern Cross]

Now lets see; once I send this message,my title should change to "Skilled Normal".
To keep this post on topic, I also have the Seven Horsemen,and 4th Edition conversions for all the main characters in that book,plus The Corolis Effect,the Champions mini-series, & The Voice Of Doom.Anyone interested?

[Bartman]

Originally posted by Southern Cross
Now lets see; once I send this message,my title should change to "Skilled Normal".
To keep this post on topic, I also have the Seven Horsemen,and 4th Edition conversions for all the main characters in that book,plus The Corolis Effect,the Champions mini-series, & The Voice Of Doom.Anyone interested?

Actually I would. How did you deal with the Piercing power, which was so common among the Horsemen?

[Southern Cross]

In The Black Death writeup, I changed both KAs to 3d6 Double AP KAs at zero END.That was the only writeup with Piercing I could find in the book.

[Southern Cross]

Incidentally,after looking over these old writeups,if I ever convert them to Fifth Edition,there will be changes made,especially to the monsters.(I think I'll change the Black Death's KA's to a single 2d6NND KA ,Does BODY, at 0 END,Half Damage at Range (-1/4)).

[Polaris]

Greetings,

I would recommend trying to get a hand on the book titled Strike Force. The book was written by Aaron Allston. I happened to pick it up at a used book store and have been very happy with it. Some of the other people here on the message boards have also commented highly about it.

Polaris

[Storn]

Strike Force is my fav.

followed up by Watcher of the Dragon, which unfortunately, my art printed too dark, but is an excellent book of martial artists and my GM has used some of the back story, incorporating into our own campaign.

3rd: Classic Enemies. Which probably got more use from me as a GM and my co-GM than any other support product. It is not my favorite due to the imagination in Strike Force and WotD is so much higher and influenced the way I build my worlds.

[Southern Cross]

I also think I should change the Destruction writeup as well.As written,everything within a 1" radius is attacked by a 1d6 Continuous RKA.As the effect applies as long as Destruction has transformed into her Aspect.it's bought to 0END,and is probably Persistent as well.She probably has bought it with Personal Immunity,or she would take damage if she lost her medallion.
Incidentally,after rechecking the book,Plague's Multipower attacks ARE bought with the Piercing advantage.In my 4th Edition writeup,I just converted them to AP attacks.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by Bartman
How did you deal with the Piercing power, which was so common among the Horsemen?

Someone asked an unrelated question once, which led me to recreate (accidentally) the Piercing advantage. For 1 point of Piercing, add 1 die of attack, give it the standard effect (ie 3 points), limit it to doing only 1 point of effect (ie losing 2/3 effect...-1 1/2 limitation per FREd p 194), and give it a further limitation only to pierce defenses (probably worth -1/2 in my opinion). Voila.

For 2 pts Piercing, the only 2 pts of effect limitation is worth -1/2 instead of -1 1/2. For 3 points of piercing, no limitation is needed on points of effect (obviously). For 4 or more, build it up in blocks of 3, 2, and 1....

[Captain Obvious]

Oh yeah, to reply to the main thread...

I think Champs in 3-D has to be one of the better supplements for 4th ed. Too awesome. Horror World obviously has a following, but I liked Backworld just as well, where Dr Zerstoiten aka Professor Preserver and Mechanon ("I do not understand why life is so important and special; nonetheless, I am programmed to abandon my existence to protect it") fought against the evils of the Golden Avenger (President for life of the US) and the Champions of Evil.

Pre-4th, StrikeForce is an excellent reference, even if you don't plan on using the campaign material as is. Lots of good ideas in there, and good stuff to blatently rip off.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Super-Agents, though. At once a Champions supplement and a genre book on its own. At one point, I had plans on running a simultaneous Champions and Super-Agents campaign, where events from one directly affected events in the other.

[Brandi]

Matilda May comments: Gotcha. I bet I know just which High-Tech Villain character you meant, too.

The game I ran Irving in ran up against that group and also Destruction Crew. I think we found DC more interesting on several levels, and I always had this image of Irving meeting Jackhammer (whose weapons he busted) when Jackhammer was on parole (or an escapee) and out of the suit:

'Hey, I remembah yew! Yer that great big f*ckin' *line* who broke my hammers, man...'

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Shadows of the City went over very well with my group. I actually ran all three parts as the first story arc in my campaign. The Disciples gave my group a hard time....and none of my players could forget their loathing of...The Pack. There was enough noncombat stuff to bring the scenario to life. Reverend M currently rests in Newkirk City Sanitarium. Most of the Disciples are in Stronghold....as is The Pack. The Pack was especially hated as they viciously beat up the hero group's police contact.
What did people think of the Invaders From Below adventure? It looked interesting as a large scale adventure...where the stakes are high.

[Jhamin]

Originally posted by Polaris
Greetings,

I would recommend trying to get a hand on the book titled Strike Force. The book was written by Aaron Allston. I happened to pick it up at a used book store and have been very happy with it. Some of the other people here on the message boards have also commented highly about it.

Polaris

Strike Force is rapidly approaching "Holy Grail" status for alot of Hero Games fans. If you were playing when it came out or found it used somewhere it is a treasured part of your collection.

But good luck finding it. I know I have been searching for about 6 years.

[Chris Goodwin]

I thought SuperAgents was pretty redundant.

I would have said Champions 3-D, but for an issue. It was a great book for what it was... but it wasn't the book I wanted it to be.

Oh yeah. I want to add Autoduel Champions to the list, even though it's somewhat redundant and way out of date.

[mrswing]

For Strikeforce, keep hounding the ebay boards. I got my copy at $40 or thereabouts BUT it's signed by Aaron Allston (sigh... RPGing greatness in my grasp).
The specific excellence of this book is that he actually details how his campaign went, what the big storylines were, what mistakes he made and how he corrected them - in short, excellent stuff. The many PCs and NPCs are very good as well, of course.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I remember looking at The Mutant File, but not picking it up. What was so bad about it? I remember really liking the Minuteman writeups. The 5th edition versions are far too weak as written...they'd be the equivalent of the Sentinels....when they first appeared maybe, but too weak for your average team of 350pt characters. I don't remember the villains too well, but high point costs don't necessarily make a villain powerful(e.g. Slick). What was so tough about these mutant villains?

Rob

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Dr. MID-Nite
Well, I'm open to any of the earlier stuff, but pre-4th edition stuff is REALLY hard to find these days, so i mentioned 4th edition as I thought more people would be aware of it and and I'd be more likely to find them if I wanted them. Some of the old stuff I do have is: Alien Enemies(haven't used much), Challenges For Champions(using Dr. Megaton extensively), Shadows of The City(ran the entire thing as my first story arc, Champions in 3D(ran Nazi World and Backworld), and Classic Enemies(not used too much except a 5th edition revamp of Beamline). Now, I thought Strike Force was a campaign book. I have my own campaign and hero group...so I doubt that will be of much use to me. I'd love to get Voice of Doom, but again..pre 4th Edition is VERY hard to find. My players tend to enjoy epic storylines...where a lot is on the line..along with a fair amount of NPC interaction.

Rob Strike Force has villains too.

[L.Craig]

i bought strike force a while ago, its an excellent book

[FireTiger]

Actually I would. How did you deal with the Piercing power, which was so common among the Horsemen?

Piercing (from Champions III) used to be a power that subtracted the Piercing value from a target's defense (and Piercing had to be bought against a specific defense, like non-resistant PD) before the effects of the attack power that Piercing was associated for.

Hmmm... these days, I'd probably write it up as a Suppress, and use the Standard Effect rule (though there is probably a better way to design it, if I look closer).

[FireTiger]

Hmmm... well, let's see if I can add a few items without going back over covered ground...

The Island of Dr. Destroyer adventure (originally 1st ed., revised for 3rd, included with the 3rd ed. GM's screen) is still one of my favorites. This was his introductory scenario, and jumped right into a Destroyer-vs-The-World plot.

Okay, this was mentioned, but I like it too: Champions in 3-D (4th ed.), along with the Flawed Mirrorsarticle that spawned the book from Adventurers Club #6.

Normals Unbound (4th ed.) was useful in that it included examples from Incompetent Normal up through Slightly Less powerful. The characters were built with plenty of story ideas could be worked into a campaign.

Again, already mentioned, but... ;) the Day of the Detroyer adventure (4th ed.), is another of my favorites, and showcase's Destroyer's return as a global threat. (The plot given with his entry in Classic Enemies isn't as grand, but it is in character for Destroyer.)

The Circle and M.E.T.E. organization book (2nd ed.) is another favorite of mine. (M.E.T.E. was revised for 4th ed. in Alien Enemies.) The Circle makes a good starting point for a Mystics game without leaping directly into Mystic Masters.

The Escape from Stronghold adventure (2nd ed.) is still useful, as is the super-prision itself. This was revised for 4th ed. in Classic Enemies.

The adventure Deathstroke (2nd ed.) is a good one for presenting the Heroes with a global threat that isn't Dr. Destroyer. :winkgrin:

Here's another already mentioned that I'm partial to (possibly because I still have and play both games it has write-ups for, Champions and Superworld) is The Great Super Villain Contest adventure (3rd ed.). Villains from everywhere competing to win the "Emerald Eye of Azog."

The genre book Cyber Hero (4th ed.) I like for its presentation of using cyberspace in the Hero System.

I saw mention of the Golden Age of Champions book, but I think that was for the later version from Hero Games, I have the old one for 2nd & 3rd ed. from Firebird Ltd.

Which reminds me... The Armory Volume 1 also from firebird Ltd.contains a lot of information on firearms which can still be useful. It will likely require a fair bit of work from a 5th ed. GM, though. The Hero System stats for the weapons were presented in Espionage! format.

I also still have use for the original Enemies, Enemies II, and Enemies III books (1st & revised for 2d ed., 2nd ed., and 3rd ed. respectively), as there are villains in them I like that haven't been officially brought into newer rules yet.

The genre book Horror Hero (4th ed.) has some parts I like more than others, but as a whole I have uses for it yet. :eg: (Portions of this one were 4th ed. revisions of Justice, Inc. material, and some of it has been revised for 5th ed. in Pulp Hero.)

A Companion to Superworld (includes 3rd ed. material) contains the write-up for Project Superhero, a superhero training facility, complete with two danger rooms. :cool:

The Trouble fo HAVOC adventure book (includes 3rd ed. material) includes a good number of supervillains, and some superheroes that could be used as handouts to new players. There are 3 adventures: A raid on an experimental fast-breeder reactor, the discovery of a lost segment of humanity that had moved underground after being influenced by a being fro mthe stars, and a race to recover a crashed alien ship before everyone else who is expected to try for it.

Woof, that ran longer than I thought, anyone still reading by now, I thank you for your time. :D

[Vann the Red]

There is a wealth of worthwhile Pre-5th Edition material out there. My personal favorites were Strike Force (as has been mentioned) and Ninja Hero.

VtR

[AmadanNaBriona]

Piercing (from Champions III) used to be a power that subtracted the Piercing value from a target's defense (and Piercing had to be bought against a specific defense, like non-resistant PD) before the effects of the attack power that Piercing was associated for.

Hmmm... these days, I'd probably write it up as a Suppress, and use the Standard Effect rule (though there is probably a better way to design it, if I look closer).
While I was originally gonna just comment of the stench of gravemold (some serious Thread Necromancy goin' on here), I fell it's worth nothing that Piercing does exist in 5th edition. It returned in Dark Champions.

[FireTiger]

While I was originally gonna just comment of the stench of gravemold (some serious Thread Necromancy goin' on here), I fell it's worth nothing that Piercing does exist in 5th edition. It returned in Dark Champions.

Oh? Haven't really seen that book yet myself, I'll have to see how the current version works then. (If too many more old powers & advantages come back we might start seeing those 3d6 Armor Piercing/Piercing/Penetrating RKAs again.)

Thank'ee for the information, these days the game is almost as bad as D&D in that there's always something one missed in yet another book somewhere. :p

[CTaylor]

I hadn't seen that yet either, I liked piercing as a concept. I liked the old -1D6 to knockback rolls advantage too.

[Lord Liaden]

The revisited Piercing Points also appear in Steve Long's HEROglyphs column from Digital Hero #13.

[AmadanNaBriona]

The revisited Piercing Points also appear in Steve Long's HEROglyphs column from Digital Hero #13.

Thanks LL. I knew there was another location they could be found at, but it just wasn't gonna come up.

[FireTiger]

I took a look at the 5th ed. version of the power, and the only real change is that buying Piercing vs. Flash Defense got a little cheaper (3 pts per point, instead of 5).

I had seen the article in Digital Hero #13, but had forgotten about it by the time I got myself onto these boards. (Oops) :p

[Metaphysician]

Did someone mention Watchers of the Dragon yet? Because they should. Awesome sourcebook/adventure combo. And it centers on Seeker, too.