"real" Magic resources

[CraterMaker]

Over in the Monte Cooks Arcana Evolved thread, the discussion kind of got sidetracked into a talk on Non-Combat and Non-Adventuring magic.. Captain Obvious had a great link to an old book of magic spells and recipes
http://www.think-aboutit.com/pdf/powow.pdf

and I just love this site about Hoodoo http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/ess_hoodoo.html
I've written up a couple of the more impressive spells (Crossing and Uncrossing, and Goober Dust) and eventually want to write it up as a college of spells..

So..

I was wondering if any of you have any "real" world magic resources you might like to share? I find they do wonders to fire up my imagination..

-CraterMaker

[Lucius]

Online, not off hand, and I don't suppose my hard copy reference library is all that useful unless you live here in Indianapolis and can convince me to loan you some books....

Lucius Alexander

Still crafting spells to keep bookworms, silverfish, rodents, and palindromedaries aout of the library....

[Chris Goodwin]

Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits

[Lucius]

Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits

You know, while I can't praise that book highly enough for the working occultist or thaumaturgist, and it's also very useful from a roleplaying standpoint, it's basically about theory.

I think what he was looking for was more "recipe book" type concrete examples from actual working traditions.

Lucius Alexander

Did the tagline eat my palindromedary?

[Lord Liaden]

If you don't mind the purchase, The Ultimate Mystic goes into considerable research into real-world magic traditions (at least the Western ones), with substantial HERO writeups. Unlike its predecessor this book is geared to all genres, not just supers.

[Captain Obvious]

I had some other good links on the old computer before the hard drive crashed. Let me see if I can google them up again.

Good to see someone getting some use out of the Powwow. :thumbup:

Edit: Ah, here's some quick return...Giambattista della Porta's Natural Magick (http://homepages.tscnet.com/omard1/jportat2.html). Looking for others...

Reedit: The Esoteric Archives (http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm) should keep you busy for a while.

I think these are the best online sources I've found along these lines. Of course, if you want the best resource of real, castable spells, you have to go to the 1st edition AD&D books. :D :rolleyes:

[StGrimblefig]

Real Magic by P.E.I. Bonewits
He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits, called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games).

I would provide a link to the SJGames product page, but their site seems to be unreachable at the moment.

Edit: They're back, and the book info can be found here (http://www.sjgames.com/thaumaturgy/)

[Gawain]

Here are a few excerpts from Authentic Thaumaturgy:

Introduction (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Intro.html)
Good and Evil Magic (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_GoodandEvilMagic.html)
The Laws of Magic (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Laws.html)
Mono-, Duo- & Polytheisms (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_MonoDuoPoly.html)
Sacrifices (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Sacrifices.html)

And some Reviews (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Reviews.html).

[Blue Jogger]

One of my favorite "magic recipes" is the Soupstone.

The rock is almost always described as very smooth and either white or grey and about the size of a small apple. It has the power to turn a pot full of water and vegetables into the best stew ever.

"And I swear you could taste the chicken and tomatoes
And the noodles and the marrowbone
But it really wasn't nothing but some water and potatoes
And the wonderful, wonderful soupstone" - Dr. Hook & the Medicine Show

[Curufea]

The Internet Sacred Text Archive-
http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm

[Frenchman]

Oh, the horror.
CraterMaker, I recognize some of the names of the Anthropologists who worked on that first one.

I need to get out of school more.

[jtelson]

Just a few we have knocking around at themagicalbuffet.com (http://www.themagicalbuffet.com)

http://www.apocatastasis.net/OccultLibrary/Occult-Library.html
http://realmagick.com/main/home.html
http://www.conjurer.org/?id=west
http://www.hermetics.org/ebooks.html
http://www.zheper.com/blackraven/?page_id=10
http://historical.library.cornell.edu/witchcraft/
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bloccultsymbols.htm

I hope they help

[Michael Hopcroft]

You know, I once found a spellbook in my college library.

Seriously. it was a book, evidently done by a reputable publisher, describing in great detail how to summon both high-ranking demons and high-ranking angels, going into such details as what circles to draw and what incantations to use.

whether this was someone having a nasty joke at the publisher's expense or a reprint on an older to0me, the spells wouldn't have actually worked. Mind you, I had no in6terest in trying them -- because I can't think either the heavenly or Infernal hosts would have much use for being summoned to the needs to a sorcerer. After all, all a demon could want is your immortal soul, and if you're wiling to summon a demon he's got it anyway, so why should he bother actually showing up?

[Curufea]

Ye..es..

[Captain Obvious]

After all, all a demon could want is your immortal soul, and if you're wiling to summon a demon he's got it anyway, so why should he bother actually showing up?

Not necessarily. Most of the medieval scholars who were into such things were willing to summon a demon rather than an angel to get information about the physical world or the hereafter because there was an element of coercion to it, and messing up a devil's day wasn't considered nearly as sinful as doing it to an angel. All a devil does all day is suffer in hell, so pulling him out to torture him for information is no big deal, as the thought went. You didn't have to sell your soul just because you summoned one up.

[Chris Goodwin]

He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits, called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games).

I would provide a link to the SJGames product page, but their site seems to be unreachable at the moment.

Edit: They're back, and the book info can be found here (http://www.sjgames.com/thaumaturgy/)

And it's not very good. I went back to look through it and, aside from the overdesigned game mechanics, the whole book is written in a condescending tone: "Fantasy gaming magic has always been unrealistic, because game designers know nothing of real magic." The first edition of the book was written in 1979, when AD&D was state of the art amongst magic systems. Aside from a few mentions of Mage: the Ascension, GURPS, and Magic: the Gathering, I'm not sure it was even updated much.

On the other hand, Real Magic has informed much of my magic system design, even back to first edition FH.

Both books treat magic scientifically, so if you're looking for sense of wonder or mystical feel, pass them by. There is a good deal of study of real life magic systems, past and present, in Real Magic.

[Michael Hopcroft]

One wonders whether I have the terminology straight. Take that spellbook I mentioned earlier. It may have been a description of practices people tried, but none of them would have actually worked. So it's real in the sense that that's how somebody thought they could cast spells, but they actually couldn't cast any spells that worked with it so it's not.

Also, the scientific and the mystical mindset weren't that far apart in the old days. Isaac Newton was a mathematician and physicist, but also one of the last practicing alchemists (before the discipline evolved into chemistry) and, in his own mind at least, a sorcerer.

And King James I, the English ruler who commissioned the most famous English-language Bible translation, considered himself one of the world's foremost experts on demonology, as respectable a field of study then as anthropology would be today (particularly since he used it to guide his witch hunters rather than traffic with the devil himself). I suspect old James might have been happier as a Witchhunter Pursuviant than as a monarch (at the very least he would have been spared the indignity of being required to reproduce for the sake of the dynasty).

It was this, as much as anything else, that got so many scientists in trouble with the Catholic Church during the Inquisition period. The Catholics weren't quite as hidebound as all that -- there was a flourishing intellectual and philosophical tradition within its ranks since the days of Augustine, and the monasteries were the most prominent centers of learning before the founding of the Universities in Christian Europe -- in fact, for most of the Dark Ages the Church had a virtual monopoly on people who still knew how to read in Western Europe), but they had a real fear of witchcraft and sorcery and its potential detrimental effect on them and the community. They truly believe in both divine and arcane magic, cherished the divine and feared the arcane. So anyone who explored "mysteries of the world" without bothering with their guidance was suspicious, possibly dangerous -- especially when those people aligned themselves with secular rulers.

[Curufea]

I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic".
:)

[Chris Goodwin]

I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic".
:)

Okay, I think what OP was looking for was resources and guidance as regards magic as it was practiced in the real world.

Real Magic by Bonewits is a good, readable introduction. Another good one might be The Golden Bough by James Fraser. There's an encyclopedia of mythology entitled Man, Myth, and Magic (http://www.amazon.com/Man-Myth-Magic-Illustrated-Encyclopedia/dp/0863070418) which might be another good one to look at. (Confusingly, there's an old RPG by the same name that I don't think has anything to do with the encyclopedia.)

For good gaming related stuff, look no further than Ken Hite. He's done lots of research and knows whereof he speaks. I don't offhand know what he's written that would specifically related, except for his Suppressed Transmissions and GURPS Cabal, for starters. Try some of his Unknown Armies stuff as well.

[Markdoc]

He wrote one specifically for roleplaying games under the name Isaac Bonewits, called Authentic Thaumaturgy (ISBN 1-55634-360-4, published by Steve Jackson Games).

I've got a copy of this and have kept it as a curiosity, but I wouldn't advise anyone to waste cash on it - it's rubbish and badly written to boot.

Edit: scooped by Mr Goodwin.

cheers, Mark

[Mister E]

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Tree_of_Life

Just passing on the above link, which is full of real-world-ish magical stuff derived from Aleister Crowley and the Qabalah. Links to Astrology, Tarot, Colors, Elements, Angels and more... all integrated in a simplified form.

[Curufea]

Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling!

[Lucius]

I still can't parse the uses of the words "real" and "magic".
:)

I can't quite parse "divine" and "arcane."

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary is chewing it over

[Mister E]

Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling!

"The tingling sensation let's you know it's working."

[Black Rose]

Nice site! It even has the "k" spelling!

IIRC, Crowley, aka The Wickedest Man Alive, was the one who really pushed for "magic with a K" as Will Working, not to be confused with the "no-K magic" with the handkerchiefs and cards and coins and whatnot. I'm certainly not saying he was the first to spell it that way, but before him the "k" was used for one of two reasons; referencing an old text, or actually being an old text. Do recall, this word comes from the Olde language, before they invented spelling. ;)

[Captain Obvious]

IIRC, Crowley, aka The Wickedest Man Alive, was the one who really pushed for "magic with a K" as Will Working, not to be confused with the "no-K magic" with the handkerchiefs and cards and coins and whatnot. I'm certainly not saying he was the first to spell it that way, but before him the "k" was used for one of two reasons; referencing an old text, or actually being an old text. Do recall, this word comes from the Olde language, before they invented spelling. ;)

Yu are korect.

[Lucius]

Do recall, this word comes from the Olde language, before they invented spelling. ;)

Little Lord Fauntleroy references I was not expecting.....I should probably rep you for surprising me.

Lucius Alexander

The palindromedary hasn't surprised me yet today, but then I've just had breakfast.

[TheQuestionMan]

Here are a few excerpts from Authentic Thaumaturgy:

Introduction (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Intro.html)
Good and Evil Magic (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_GoodandEvilMagic.html)
The Laws of Magic (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Laws.html)
Mono-, Duo- & Polytheisms (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_MonoDuoPoly.html)
Sacrifices (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Sacrifices.html)

And some Reviews (http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Reviews.html).

Nice find!


Thanks


QM