Martial Arts, Foci, and Possibly HD - Revisited

[bjvargas]

Of course I tried that, and I am still having difficulty - wouldn't ya know.

I set them up in the list. I started applying limitations, and I noticed no cost change. So to really test it out, I made a Custom Limitation of -10, and still had no change in cost. Here are the results with No Limitations, and with the -10.

NO Lim:

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver Speedster Martial Arts (Ultimate Speedster)5 1) Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge [Notes: Dodge All Attacks; Abort; F-move] 5 2) Flying Grab: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab, Area Of Effect (8" Radius; +1 3/4), Selective (+1/4) [Notes: Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on; FMove == The Flying Grab maneuver allows the speedster to run up to someone and grab him.] 5 3) Flying Throw: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Throw [Notes: Grab Two Limbs; STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove == The Flying Throw maneuver allows the speedster to grab someone and then throw him, using the speedster’s own velocity to increase the damage.] 5 4) Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm [Notes: Disarm, +10 STR to Disarm roll; FMove == The Passing Disarm involves running past the target and snatching something out of his hand.] 5 5) Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Strike [Notes: STR + v/5; FMove == The Passing Strike involves running past the target and hitting him, using the speedster’s velocity to augment the blow.] 5 6) Passing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Throw [Notes: STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove == The Passing Throw maneuver allows the speedster to “intercept” another moving character and trip or throw him so that the target’s own velocity works against him.] 5 7) Pressure Wave: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2 d6 NND [Notes: The Pressure Wave involves running around the target at high speed to batter him with increased air pressure, or the speedster rapidly pumping his arm to create a short-range “pressure blast” of compressed air; in either case the defense is Life Support (Safe Environment: High Pressure).] 5 8) Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;] 4 9) Rapid Chop: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Chop [Notes: HKA ½d6 (2 DC) == Rapid Chop does the same as Rapid Punch (to more lethal effect) using the edge of the palm, or possibly the whole hand to rub something at hyper-speeds to create damaging friction.] 4 10) Spinning Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Strike [Notes: +15 STR vs. Grabs == To use the Spinning Escape, the character spins or vibrates in place so violently that his captor can’t maintain a grip on him.] Martial Arts Cost: 48

WITH Lim:

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver Speedster Martial Arts (Ultimate Speedster), all slots Custom Modifier (-10) 5 1) Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: Dodge All Attacks; Abort; F-move] 5 2) Flying Grab: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab, Area Of Effect (8" Radius; +1 3/4), Selective (+1/4); Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on; FMove == The Flying Grab maneuver allows the speedster to run up to someone and grab him.] 5 3) Flying Throw: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Throw; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: Grab Two Limbs; STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove == The Flying Throw maneuver allows the speedster to grab someone and then throw him, using the speedster’s own velocity to increase the damage.] 5 4) Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: Disarm, +10 STR to Disarm roll; FMove == The Passing Disarm involves running past the target and snatching something out of his hand.] 5 5) Passing Strike: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, Strike; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: STR + v/5; FMove == The Passing Strike involves running past the target and hitting him, using the speedster’s velocity to augment the blow.] 5 6) Passing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Throw; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: STR + v/5; Target Falls; FMove == The Passing Throw maneuver allows the speedster to “intercept” another moving character and trip or throw him so that the target’s own velocity works against him.] 5 7) Pressure Wave: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2 1/2 d6 NND; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: The Pressure Wave involves running around the target at high speed to batter him with increased air pressure, or the speedster rapidly pumping his arm to create a short-range “pressure blast” of compressed air; in either case the defense is Life Support (Safe Environment: High Pressure).] 5 8) Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;] 4 9) Rapid Chop: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Chop; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: HKA ½d6 (2 DC) == Rapid Chop does the same as Rapid Punch (to more lethal effect) using the edge of the palm, or possibly the whole hand to rub something at hyper-speeds to create damaging friction.] 4 10) Spinning Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Strike; Custom Modifier (-10) [Notes: +15 STR vs. Grabs == To use the Spinning Escape, the character spins or vibrates in place so violently that his captor can’t maintain a grip on him.] Martial Arts Cost: 48

So what am I doing wrong *this* time? lol

[Simon]

You're not applying any Advantages.

A Limitation will only affect an Advantaged Maneuver (once again, in accordance with the rules of the system).

[ghost-angel]

FYI for bjvargas: 5ER p64 "You may not put Limitations on Martial Maneuvers, unless the GM allows."

[bjvargas]

Ok, so I tried applying advantages. Not only didn't that have an effect on how limitations worked, it had no effect on the cost at all.

Here's what I did. I took one of the maneuvers and made 3 copies of it, so that there would be two of them inside the List, and two outside the list, to see what would happen. The original AP and RC of the maneuver was 5. I applied Advantages to one of the maneuvers within the list and one outside the list.

Within the list, no change to the cost. Outside the list, no change to the cost. The Advantages (total of +2) had no effect on the cost whatsoever. So as you might guess, the one inside the List had no effect from the Limitation either.

Here are the results (with the other maneuvers snipped out):

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver
Speedster Martial Arts, all slots Custom Modifier (-1)
5 11) Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch, Penetrating (x2; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1); Custom Modifier (-1) [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;]

5 12) Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch; Custom Modifier (-1) [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;]

5 Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch, Penetrating (x2; +1), Armor Piercing (x2; +1) [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;]

5 Rapid Punch: 1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, -2 DCV, Punch [Notes: STR + 4d6 Strike == The Rapid Punch involves hitting the target several times in the space of a second;]

[ghost-angel]

Works for me....

11 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 20 STR to Disarm; FMove, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (11 Active Points)

[bjvargas]

Works for me....

11 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 20 STR to Disarm; FMove, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (11 Active Points)

They 'show up' for me as well. But if you notice, your AP (11) match your Cost (11)

[Simon]

They 'show up' for me as well. But if you notice, your AP (11) match your Cost (11)
Because of the way that Advantages work on Maneuvers.

PLEASE read over the rules in UMA about applying Modifiers to Maneuvers before posting questions -- this is not a forum for reviewing or summarizing the rulebooks.

The Limitations are applied to the Advantage cost on the Maneuvers. There is a HUGE amount of detail that goes into calculating the Active Cost of a Maneuver. All explained in UMA.

[Lord Mhoram]

Dan a quick question...

In 5ER (page 220) there is an example of buying martial arts through a focus. How would one do a workaround to duplicate this example in HD when there are no limitations on martial maneuvers?
Just use a negative custom adder or something?

[Simon]

Dan a quick question...

In 5ER (page 220) there is an example of buying martial arts through a focus. How would one do a workaround to duplicate this example in HD when there are no limitations on martial maneuvers?
Just use a negative custom adder or something?
If you're talking about taking points off of the base Maneuver cost, you do not. You can note the Limitations, if desired, but you will not receive any points for them as it is explicitly against the rules as laid out in UMA (and by Steve).

[Lord Mhoram]

If you're talking about taking points off of the base Maneuver cost, you do not. You can note the Limitations, if desired, but you will not receive any points for them as it is explicitly against the rules as laid out in UMA (and by Steve).

No prob. Just curious. Hadn't reread UMA in a while. :)

[bjvargas]

Because of the way that Advantages work on Maneuvers.

PLEASE read over the rules in UMA about applying Modifiers to Maneuvers before posting questions -- this is not a forum for reviewing or summarizing the rulebooks.

The Limitations are applied to the Advantage cost on the Maneuvers. There is a HUGE amount of detail that goes into calculating the Active Cost of a Maneuver. All explained in UMA.

Uhhhh...ok...I see...I am now required to own UMA to create a character out of 5ER and US...

Well, then, maybe I should ask for my money back on HD if I am *required* to have each and every book to use it???

[bjvargas]

...sorry for snipping... but I have been taking some snippage lately and I let it get to me. I apologize.

[Simon]

Uhhhh...ok...I see...I am now required to own UMA to create a character out of 5ER and US...

Well, then, maybe I should ask for my money back on HD if I am *required* to have each and every book to use it???
No, but if you're going to use the optional rules which are detailed in the various supplements (in this case, UMA), then you will have to own the supplements in order to understand what HD is doing -- which you seem to not be doing.

UMA goes into great detail about how you apply Advantages and Limitations to Maneuvers. If you want to understand how HD is calculating the costs for Advantaged/Limited Maneuvers, then you will need to read over UMA. HD's job is to follow the rules of the system, which is precisely what it is doing.

[bjvargas]

...this is not a forum for reviewing or summarizing the rulebooks.

I didn't even bring this question to you! I asked it in another forum, hoping to figure it out before I embarrassed myself again. 'Twas you who sniffed the question out and jumped on it.


No, but if you're going to use the optional rules which are detailed in the various supplements (in this case, UMA), then you will have to own the supplements in order to understand what HD is doing -- which you seem to not be doing.

UMA goes into great detail about how you apply Advantages and Limitations to Maneuvers.

Now how am I supposed to know that what I am trying to do is detailed in UMA until after I buy UMA? Again, that means I should not be asking questions until after I buy every possible product. And while I would *love* to do so, my income has not kept up with the number of releases.

What I was attempting to do was:

1) A GM approval thingie in 5ER in one place,

2) Taken directly from an example elsewhere in 5ER.


If you want to understand how HD is calculating the costs for Advantaged/Limited Maneuvers, then you will need to read over UMA. HD's job is to follow the rules of the system, which is precisely what it is doing.

Which brings us right back around to a user of HD needing to buy every release with rules questions in it before asking any questions in this forum - a person can't know what rules have been updated beyond the Core Rules if one hasn't purchased all possible updates.

Look, I know you have what is likely the most difficult job in the line of products, if not the whole company. And I can appreciate that. I really can. I mean, with dufuses (dufi?) like me around... I really appreciate you being here and communicating with us, as frustrating as that must get for you some times (often?)

But now I feel as if I shouldn't be asking anything at all - and I doubt that is the intent with this forum.

Next time someone asks a question like mine (especially if asked in a different forum), and you know that the answer is based on something in a specific product, just provide that info. In my case, I would have gladly given up on my project until I could afford to have a look at that product.

Thank you for your time.

DC Collins

[ghost-angel]

5ER states that Limitations and Martial Maneuvers don't mix.
From the FAQ:
Can Martial Maneuvers have Limitations?
As a default answer, no — but the GM could choose to allow this if he wanted to.

That's the rules Hero Designer is operating under.
Here's how it's applying the "Generally" aspect from p64:
The rules require a character to spend a minimum of 10 points on Martial Arts. Does that mean 10 Active/base Points, in the event a character can apply a Limitation to his Martial Arts?
Generally, characters cannot apply Limitations to Martial Arts (5ER 64). If the GM permits them to anyway, then the answer is yes — a character has to buy at least 10 Active/base Points’ worth of Martial Maneuvers. Advantages bought for Martial Maneuvers do not count for this purpose, since they’re naked Power Advantages and thus separate powers.

Since Hero Designer does not contradict itself in terms of implementing the numerous optional rules in Hero - even if you apply the Limitation to a list of 10AP worth of Maneuvers, there's no point cost reduction.

However, if you do create a List and apply the Limitation as a Common Modifier and apply an Advantage to a Martial Maneuver you will get something like this:

Aikido, all slots IIF (-1/4)
9 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 20 STR to Disarm; FMove, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (9 Active Points); IIF (-1/4)
...(and a bunch of other maneuvers)

Without the Limitation it looks like:

Aikido
11 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 20 STR to Disarm; FMove, Autofire (2 shots; +1/4) (11 Active Points)
...(and a bunch of other maneuvers)

What you're running into is that Hero Designer is meant to implement the Fifth Edition Base Rules. While Hero Designer has options for several optional rules - it's because Steve said to put them in.

If you can convince Steve to tell Dan to add the ability to apply Limitations to Martial Arts normally I'm sure Dan would do so (after a few Guinness considering the pain in the but MAs make out of Advantages...)

[Simon]

Actually, the Limitations are being applied to the Maneuvers in the manner that Steve intended.

[Simon]

I didn't even bring this question to you! I asked it in another forum, hoping to figure it out before I embarrassed myself again. 'Twas you who sniffed the question out and jumped on it.



Now how am I supposed to know that what I am trying to do is detailed in UMA until after I buy UMA? Again, that means I should not be asking questions until after I buy every possible product. And while I would *love* to do so, my income has not kept up with the number of releases.
No, it means you should not be attempting what are considered "advanced" builds without understanding the rules surrounding them. While 5ER makes mention of placing Modifiers onto Martial Maneuvers, it does not go into any detail (whatsoever) about how you go about doing so -- for that you need UMA.



What I was attempting to do was:

1) A GM approval thingie in 5ER in one place,

2) Taken directly from an example elsewhere in 5ER.


and 3) Never detailed ANYWHERE in 5ER about how you calculate the Active Points of a Maneuver or how Limitations are actually applied to said Maneuver. Those pesky little details reside in UMA.



Which brings us right back around to a user of HD needing to buy every release with rules questions in it before asking any questions in this forum - a person can't know what rules have been updated beyond the Core Rules if one hasn't purchased all possible updates.

No, it means that if you want to understand the rules that HD is following when making rather extremely esoteric builds, you will need to own the related material. Or you can choose to make builds based solely on the material that you own.



Look, I know you have what is likely the most difficult job in the line of products, if not the whole company. And I can appreciate that. I really can. I mean, with dufuses (dufi?) like me around... I really appreciate you being here and communicating with us, as frustrating as that must get for you some times (often?)

I don't work for DOJ. I'm contracted in for the development of HD and volunteer my time on the forums.



But now I feel as if I shouldn't be asking anything at all - and I doubt that is the intent with this forum.

You have a tendency to ask questions before you even look for an answer on your own. Remember, earlier you posted a question about "missing abilities" to which the answer was "use the scroll bar".

Take a step back, breathe, and relax. My personal (unsolicited) advice would be to take your character builds SEVERAL steps back. You're trying to do things that you (a) do not have the source material to understand and (b) that are considered extremely esoteric.



Next time someone asks a question like mine (especially if asked in a different forum), and you know that the answer is based on something in a specific product, just provide that info. In my case, I would have gladly given up on my project until I could afford to have a look at that product.

Were you to have asked that question, perhaps I would have.

Instead, you asked:


It says skills can be purchased as powers, then gives the example of Chen Kwai buying his Martial Arts with a Gem Focus.

1) How would one go about doing that?

2) How would one go about doing that in HD3?

To which you received an answer.

My assumption at this point is that you are doing one of two things:

1) Creating "Custom Maneuvers" (something that you really do not have the knowledge or source material to be doing) and trying to apply Modifiers to them (doesn't work and was never intended to)

or

2) Simply not constructing abilities in the way that you (appear) to be describing and/or misunderstanding the information that HD is giving you.

[bjvargas]

If you can convince Steve to tell Dan to add the ability to apply Limitations to Martial Arts normally I'm sure Dan would do so (after a few Guinness considering the pain in the but MAs make out of Advantages...)

I thank you for all the valuable info.

Hey, if it isn't supposed to be done, generally, I understand why HD doesn't do it. No prob. That's why I first asked the question in the Champions thread. There are always work-arounds for getting points back in HD if a GM wants to go with something anyway.

HD is a god-send.

[Simon]

I thank you for all the valuable info.

Hey, if it isn't supposed to be done, generally, I understand why HD doesn't do it. No prob. That's why I first asked the question in the Champions thread. There are always work-arounds for getting points back in HD if a GM wants to go with something anyway.

HD is a god-send.
HD is doing things EXACTLY the way they are supposed to be done according to the rules. You simply are not listening.

Applying Advantages to Maneuvers is an optional rule. The details of how you go about doing this are laid out in UMA. HD follows those rules.

Applying Limitations to Maneuvers is an optional rule. Again, HD follows the rules of how you go about doing this. The Limitations apply to the Advantaged cost of the Maneuver and have NO EFFECT on the base Maneuver cost. That is the way the optional rule works and the way HD works.

You are looking to go completely against the rules of the system and do something that the HERO System and Steve Long do not allow.

[bjvargas]

No, it means you should not be attempting what are considered "advanced" builds without understanding the rules surrounding them. While 5ER makes mention of placing Modifiers onto Martial Maneuvers, it does not go into any detail (whatsoever) about how you go about doing so -- for that you need UMA.

First that means that I have to have reason to believe it *is* an advanced build.

1) What I wanted to do was done in an example in 5ER.
2) Every other skill and power is built the way I wanted to build it.

No reason for me to suspect it *is* an 'advanced build'. I guess I am new enough here that I haven't even heard of that term before.


and 3) Never detailed ANYWHERE in 5ER about how you calculate the Active Points of a Maneuver or how Limitations are actually applied to said Maneuver. Those pesky little details reside in UMA.

Funny...when the Core Rules tell me it can be done (Chen Kwai), and everything else is built the same way...it seems to me not too unreasonable to make a first guess that it can be done using the same format as everything else. That, however, is exactly why I asked about it first...and then you came along and told me it could be done and how to do it.


No, it means that if you want to understand the rules that HD is following when making rather extremely esoteric builds, you will need to own the related material. Or you can choose to make builds based solely on the material that you own.


Esoteric? Again, the core book said it could be done - and everything else is built the same way I wanted to do it.

It is *fine* with me that HD doesn't do it. Again, that is why I asked for advice first. If only I had been told that...but to be told it *can* be done and *how* to do it in HD, and then to be told by the same person that the reason it isn't working for me is because I am not reading the rules (without - at that point - having been told that some other material covers it) leaves me in...an awkward position.


I don't work for DOJ. I'm contracted in for the development of HD and volunteer my time on the forums.

I think that's awesome! It shows you care about the work you put out. For what it's worth, I'd hire you based on that alone. And with as complex as the Hero System can be, I am extremely impressed with the product.


You have a tendency to ask questions before you even look for an answer on your own.

I know it appears that way. But there is not a time I haven't looked for at least an hour - in the products I have - before asking a question.


Remember, earlier you posted a question about "missing abilities" to which the answer was "use the scroll bar".

All too well - I am still red-faced over that. That one I worked on for *several* hours before bringing it here. I knew the quality of the product, so I knew it *had* to be me. You think I wanted to look like an idiot?

It's not like I came barrelling into the forum claiming the software was broken, and demanding an immediate fix and apologies for wasting my time and all that rot. I came asking for help, and IIRC I came in rather sheepishly about it.

I figured it was probably that snake-so-close-it-could-bite-me. And was I ever right.


Take a step back, breathe, and relax.

LOL - that was exactly what I was thinking for you last night. :)


My personal (unsolicited) advice would be to take your character builds SEVERAL steps back. You're trying to do things that you (a) do not have the source material to understand and (b) that are considered extremely esoteric.

And now that I know that, I can deal with it, no problem. If there had been reason for me to know that what I wanted was so esoteric in the first place (which is why I asked before I started playing around with it), I wouldn't have even bothered with building the character until I could get the proper material. I would have just made character concept notes, and moved on to the next project.


Were you to have asked that question, perhaps I would have.

Instead, you asked:

---
It says skills can be purchased as powers, then gives the example of Chen Kwai buying his Martial Arts with a Gem Focus.

1) How would one go about doing that?

2) How would one go about doing that in HD3?
---


Uhhh...yeah...I give an example about something that can be done per the core rules, and advice on how others would do it.


To which you received an answer.

Exactly...and when that didn't work, I asked a follow-up question. I don't understand your problem with this...


My assumption at this point is that you are doing one of two things:

1) Creating "Custom Maneuvers" (something that you really do not have the knowledge or source material to be doing)

Valid assumption - which is exactly why I asked for advice on how to build it in the first place...somewhere other than the HD forums.


and trying to apply Modifiers to them (doesn't work and was never intended to)

And yet you gave me instructions on how to do it, and then appear to have gotten frustrated when I said it didn't work for me. I remind you that I never even brought this topic to you. I asked others for advice.


or

2) Simply not constructing abilities in the way that you (appear) to be describing and/or misunderstanding the information that HD is giving you.

Which is why I asked again, detailing how I followed those instructions step-by-step. If you don't wish to answer those questions, that's okay. I don't *need* to build any particular character, nor do I need to build it in a certain way. But when I am told I can, I give it a go.

[Lord Mhoram]

All too well - I am still red-faced over that. That one I worked on for *several* hours before bringing it here. I knew the quality of the product, so I knew it *had* to be me. You think I wanted to look like an idiot?



If it helps, way back when there were a number of people (myself included) pestering Dan about how to do Frameworks (or Skill Enhancers) because we couldn't see them in the list- and they were up on top of the powers (or skills) main section. :D

[Starwolf]

Also I might suggest that for advice on how to build power/skil/martial arts constructions you might try posting a request in which ever forum fits the genre you are playing.

I recommend you post the end goal (like I need help building a laser cannon mounted on a hover sled, no more than 50 active points)...

You will then most likely get tons of advice from Hero's of all stripes :D

[Nekkidcarpenter]

If it helps, way back when there were a number of people (myself included) pestering Dan about how to do Frameworks (or Skill Enhancers) because we couldn't see them in the list- and they were up on top of the powers (or skills) main section. :D

*sob* And all this time I thought I was the only one.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Another solution you have is to build your specialized MA as Custom powers. I had a character that I wanted to be so good with Aikido that she automatically tried to block and throw anyone to the ground who attacked her. I applied the Trigger advantage in the MA tab to find out the revised AP and then transported it as a custom power to apply the limitation.

27 Aikido Throw: Custom Power (40 Active Points); Limited Power only when Combat Luck would apply (-1/2) Trigger, 2 or more conditions apply simultaneously. Notes: As if Defensive throw was bought with Trigger, so +1 OCV, +1 DCV Block, Target falls

Really annoying power, btw. I stuck it on a 4 speed martial artist in a campaign with a 6 and a 7 speed guy. One phase she threw BOTH of them to the ground when they tried to teamwork her, and then followed up with a 5d6 Nerve Strike. They finally threw a car at her:D

[bjvargas]

If it helps, way back when there were a number of people (myself included) pestering Dan about how to do Frameworks (or Skill Enhancers) because we couldn't see them in the list- and they were up on top of the powers (or skills) main section. :D

It does help...(esp. after a few days away to get my mind off the whole thing, lol) I hate to be the only dufus around... thanks (oh, and btw, I love your moniker - Chronicles is my favorite series of books)

[bjvargas]

Really annoying power, btw. I stuck it on a 4 speed martial artist in a campaign with a 6 and a 7 speed guy. One phase she threw BOTH of them to the ground when they tried to teamwork her, and then followed up with a 5d6 Nerve Strike. They finally threw a car at her:D

Thanks, I will definitely have to give that a try :) Anything that gets a car thrown at your character means it works.

[bjvargas]

Also I might suggest that for advice on how to build power/skil/martial arts constructions you might try posting a request in which ever forum fits the genre you are playing.

I recommend you post the end goal (like I need help building a laser cannon mounted on a hover sled, no more than 50 active points)...

You will then most likely get tons of advice from Hero's of all stripes :D


I did...that was the funny thing. I started out by asking for advice on how to do it over in the Champions forum. The first couple of responders weren't sure either. Then Dan found it in that forum and told me how to do it...and *I* (putting it on me, not Dan) couldn't make it work. Things went downhill from there. But most definitely, such questions will now always be asked in the genre forums first.