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MisterD

Jul 11th, '03, 09:37 PM

Just saw LXG and can't wait to see you guys create CHAMPIONS versions of the characters

My take on the team

NEMO: Inventor / Martial Artist
HYDE: Multi-form brick
SAWYER: SKilled Normal
QUARTERMAINE: Skilled normal
DORIAN GREY: Martial Artist (sword) with a healing factor that would put Wolverine to shame
MINA HARKER: Scientist / Vampire
???Forgot the Name???: Invisible / Skilled normal

OT: I had Dorian Grey as a character in a Western Hero game (the other players were a Quai Gan Cane like martial artist, A trickshot artist and an inventor so the Grey character was not too out there)

Agent X

Jul 11th, '03, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by MisterD
Just saw LXG and can't wait to see you guys create CHAMPIONS versions of the characters

My take on the team

NEMO: Inventor / Martial Artist
HYDE: Multi-form brick
SAWYER: SKilled Normal
QUARTERMAINE: Skilled normal
DORIAN GREY: Martial Artist (sword) with a healing factor that would put Wolverine to shame
MINA HARKER: Scientist / Vampire
???Forgot the Name???: Invisible / Skilled normal

OT: I had Dorian Grey as a character in a Western Hero game (the other players were a Quai Gan Cane like martial artist, A trickshot artist and an inventor so the Grey character was not too out there) What did you think of the movie?

McCoy

Jul 11th, '03, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by MisterD
???Forgot the Name???: Invisible / Skilled normal

Skinner.

Line I wanted to hear but didn't: "Sawyer, Thomas Sawyer."

bwdemon

Jul 11th, '03, 10:02 PM

I, personally, liked the movie a lot. However, I will say that I never read the comic and I don't tend to be a psychotic purist, so the more militant among us may or may not care for it...

From the view of someone who went into the movie with no idea of what he'd see, I can say I enjoyed it immensely. :D

Tombstone_Frank

Jul 11th, '03, 10:48 PM

The CGI was a bit much sometimes, and the story was a bit light, but I liked Hyde being a suit instead of CGI 3 stars

Ndreare

Jul 12th, '03, 09:28 AM

Although not as good as the Hulk this movie totaly rocked.

Every character with a name is a character from clasic literature. They are all but kicking characters of some sort or another running around in the latter part of the 1800's.

(I have already started making them using 350 as a base. And remember Allen was more than just a skilled normal. I would place both him and Thom at the end of Luck. As for Allen he also has the Blessings of africa so he cannot die which I would consider a significant power.)

Killer Shrike

Jul 12th, '03, 09:50 AM

The movie was really well done. I had misgiving going in due to rumors of difficulties between Connery and the director, the damage to thier sets during the flooding in Prague last year, and some of the previews.

I was particularly worried about Hyde, but damn they did a good job with him.

I thought Richard Roxburgh wasnt given much of a chance to really shine. The guy is a really fabulous scene-stealing actor and it seemed like the director was keeping a tight rein on him.

Dorian Grey was handled really well, and Skinner as the Invisible Man was more interesting to me than Griffith the psychopath.

Anyhoo, I really liked it, but the critics are raking it over the coals hard-core. Ive yet to see a positive review.

Enforcer84

Jul 12th, '03, 10:14 AM

I can't wait to see it. Do you guys think its required "Big Screen" viewing, or perhaps I can wait til the video release?

JohnOSpencer

Jul 12th, '03, 10:20 AM

See it on the big screen Enforcer. Definatly worth it.

John Spencer

McCoy

Jul 12th, '03, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Enforcer84
I can't wait to see it. Do you guys think its required "Big Screen" viewing, or perhaps I can wait til the video release?

The fight scenes, and the baroque Victorian excesses of the sets, really need the big screne to do them justice. The ticket will be money well spent.

Twilight

Jul 12th, '03, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
The movie was really well done. I had misgiving going in due to rumors of difficulties between Connery and the director, the damage to thier sets during the flooding in Prague last year, and some of the previews.

I was particularly worried about Hyde, but damn they did a good job with him.

I thought Richard Roxburgh wasnt given much of a chance to really shine. The guy is a really fabulous scene-stealing actor and it seemed like the director was keeping a tight rein on him.

Dorian Grey was handled really well, and Skinner as the Invisible Man was more interesting to me than Griffith the psychopath.

Anyhoo, I really liked it, but the critics are raking it over the coals hard-core. Ive yet to see a positive review.

Critics, BAH!

The critics rake everything over the coals now a days, especially if it's a movie that's actually entertaining. I loved the Hulk and Pirates of the Carribean and the critics raked both of those over the coals as well.

Really the only good movies, if memory serves, of late that the critics actually liked was the Lord of the Rings and, I belive, the Harry Potter movies.

Killer Shrike

Jul 12th, '03, 04:25 PM

Actually Pirates is getting really good reviews.

The main concern is that if the critics attack a movie, it seriously impacts box office, and low box office means no sequel.

Lord Liaden

Jul 12th, '03, 06:47 PM

Ebert and Roeper both stuck their thumbs up for Hulk. I haven't seen their review of LXG yet, but it would be nice if it's positive - they're probably the most widely-quoted film critics.

Not that it matters to me. From the clips I've already seen I'm going to this movie whatever anyone says.

Worldmaker

Jul 12th, '03, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Twilight
Critics, BAH!

The critics rake everything over the coals now a days, especially if it's a movie that's actually entertaining. I loved the Hulk and Pirates of the Carribean and the critics raked both of those over the coals as well.

Really the only good movies, if memory serves, of late that the critics actually liked was the Lord of the Rings and, I belive, the Harry Potter movies.

Ahem.

I gave the Hulk 4 stars out of my 5 star rating system, and not only gave Pirates of the Carribean 5 stars out of five (a rating it shares with only the two Harry Potter Movies, the two Lord of the Rings movies, Phone Booth, and Down with Love), I opined that its too bad that the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences don't give acting awards to this type of movie, because Johnny Depp deserves one.

I gave LXG 3 1/2 stars out of 5; I love the concept but think the execution could have been a bit better. However, I think its still a very enjoyable film so go see it several times.

In fact, my only niggling problem with the film is the fact that Tom Sawyer, having been born in 1837 according to the book by the same name, should have been just over 60 years old during this movie, and obviously he's not.

But then what do I know... I'm just a film critic...

Twilight

Jul 12th, '03, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Worldmaker
Ahem.

I gave the Hulk 4 stars out of my 5 star rating system, and not only gave Pirates of the Carribean 5 stars out of five (a rating it shares with only the two Harry Potter Movies, the two Lord of the Rings movies, Phone Booth, and Down with Love), I opined that its too bad that the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences don't give acting awards to this type of movie, because Johnny Depp deserves one.

I gave LXG 3 1/2 stars out of 5; I love the concept but think the execution could have been a bit better. However, I think its still a very enjoyable film so go see it several times.

In fact, my only niggling problem with the film is the fact that Tom Sawyer, having been born in 1937 according to the book by the same name, should have been just over 60 years old during this movie, and obviously he's not.

But then what do I know... I'm just a film critic...

My apologies. I didn't mean to lump all film critics into the same boat.

I guess where I live we're just infested with film critics like the kind I described in my earlier post and am sensitive on the subject cause of that.

My bad.

Spectrum

Jul 12th, '03, 08:48 PM

I thought it was a pretty decent movie. I was iffy on it at first but found it to be a fun movie to watch, although I think it's one that if you must see it in the theater, catch it durring a matinee when the tickets are cheaper.

Graviton

Jul 12th, '03, 11:07 PM

My wife and I both really enjoyed it, as did two non-gaming friends of ours. I thought the fight scenes could have been better directed (the camera as an observer rather than seeming to be a participant), but overall I thought it was very well done.

Here's another one to ponder along with Sawyer's age: how the heck did Mina Harker keep wandering around during the day?

Agent X

Jul 13th, '03, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Twilight
My apologies. I didn't mean to lump all film critics into the same boat.

I guess where I live we're just infested with film critics like the kind I described in my earlier post and am sensitive on the subject cause of that.

My bad. Dude, think about it. You're apologizing for criticizing critics. :)

WhammeWhamme

Jul 13th, '03, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Graviton
My wife and I both really enjoyed it, as did two non-gaming friends of ours. I thought the fight scenes could have been better directed (the camera as an observer rather than seeming to be a participant), but overall I thought it was very well done.

Here's another one to ponder along with Sawyer's age: how the heck did Mina Harker keep wandering around during the day?

Oooh! I know! I know!

Well, maybe not. But my Best Guess (tm) is that if she's a Vampire, she's a Vampire in the Dracula mold; weakened, but not killed by sunlight.

Agent Escafarc

Jul 13th, '03, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by Worldmaker

In fact, my only niggling problem with the film is the fact that Tom Sawyer, having been born in 1837 according to the book by the same name, should have been just over 60 years old during this movie, and obviously he's not.

But then what do I know... I'm just a film critic...

Two possilble answers to this:
A: This is Tom's grandson, they never use his first name in the movie.

B(My first choice) this is the Tom from that live action/animated cartoon from the Bannana Splits Show who when he finally got out of those caves found himself some 30+ years in the future :D

I also liked the fight scenes mainly because they didn't use the slow-motion/wire-fu stuff which I just don't carefor.

Arthur

Jul 13th, '03, 08:48 AM

A few months ago, I was thinking "the top movie this summer is going to be Hulk! LXG and T3 definitely look good too, but they are going to be playing catch-up to Big Green!"

OK. So I was mistaken.

Don't get me wrong. Hulk was good movie. Nowhere near SpiderMan or X2 or Matrix, but enjoyable and entertaining. It made a little more sense on second viewing. I use a 1-10 scale: I gave it a 6. T3 gets a 7, while SpiderMan and X2 both got 10. LXG gets an 8.

The only reason I didn't bump it up to a 9 was because it was too dark. I don't mean grim - I mean TOO DARK! I felt like I needed Night Vision to follow most of what was going on. I realize the action was meant to be at night, but there are ways of using cinematography to get that across without making most of the action impossible to see.

So far LXG is the best movie of the summer. Pirates is next on my list.

Fireg0lem

Jul 13th, '03, 08:49 AM

My only real complaint about the movie was the Jekyll/Hyde character. All of the others were more-or-less as they appeared in the literature they were drawn from. Not exact, as pointed out with Sawyer's age for example, but close enough. Hyde, however, was not even close. Hyde was supposed to be a younger man than Jekyll, and stunted (because Jekyll had repressed his dark side), not the Hulk. A better choice, IMHO, to fill that position, would have been Frankenstein's Monster.

Crimson Arrow

Jul 13th, '03, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Fireg0lem
My only real complaint about the movie was the Jekyll/Hyde character. All of the others were more-or-less as they appeared in the literature they were drawn from. Not exact, as pointed out with Sawyer's age for example, but close enough. Hyde, however, was not even close. Hyde was supposed to be a younger man than Jekyll, and stunted (because Jekyll had repressed his dark side), not the Hulk. A better choice, IMHO, to fill that position, would have been Frankenstein's Monster.

Towards the end of Vol. 1 of LXG, Jekyll comments that Hyde used to be much smaller than him. I read a quote somewhere from the actual story that suggested Hyde was getting bigger (possibly on Jesse Nevins's excellent website). About 12 years have elapsed between the original story and the events of Vol 1 of LXG (and the timescale for the film puts it about the same time as Vol 1 of the comic, I believe). The implication is that Hyde (who does indeed appear to represent Jekyll's repressed dark side) has continued to grow. The more bestial acts Hyde commits, the bigger and stronger he becomes and Jekyll wastes away and becomes smaller and ineffectual.

Spence

Jul 13th, '03, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Anyhoo, I really liked it, but the critics are raking it over the coals hard-core. Ive yet to see a positive review.

All I had to go on was the movie critic's and so far they have all hated it (that I've read/seen). Keeping this in mind I went in expecting a REALLY GOOD MOVIE. I was not disappointed. I really enjoyed it.

Over the years I have developed an extreme dislike for movie critics that seem to think people go to movies for ethical/moral education. For myself, I go to be entertained. If the movie is scifi, fantasy or adventure/war related and the critic's hate it, it's usually good. Now if they say they like it before the first weeks box office is in (and they can see how well everyone likes it), it will probably be a really crappy show.

McCoy

Jul 13th, '03, 12:18 PM

OK, my first attempt with Hero Designer, lets see how this goes. Character is based partly on the movie, partly on the source material.

The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde (http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/dorgray/preface.htm)

Dorian Gray

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>STR</td><td>-10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>DEX</td><td>30</td></tr><tr><td align="right">15  </td><td>CON</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>INT</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>EGO</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>PRE</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>COM</td><td>5</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">3  </td><td>PD</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>SPD</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>STUN</td><td>4</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">3"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 82

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">52  </td><td>Desolidification , Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (130 Active Points); Custom Modifier (-1), Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) [Notes: Must leave "real body" behind. Painting is in effect the real body, any damage done to it will be done to the character.] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">49  </td><td>+15 STR, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Custom Modifier (+2) (49 Active Points) (added to Primary Value) [Notes: Affects Physical World] </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">50  </td><td>Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat, Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents, Immunity: All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents, Longevity: Immortal, Safe in High Pressure, Safe in High Radiation, Safe in Intense Cold, Safe in Intense Heat, Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum, Self-Contained Breathing, Sleeping: Character does not sleep) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (plus STR) (vs. PD) (15 Active Points); IAF (Focus, Sword cane; -1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">1</td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 159

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">  </td><td>Brawling </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>1) Punch: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, Strike 5d6 </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>2) Roundhouse: 1 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, Strike 7d6 </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>3) Low Blow: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Strike 2d6 NND </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>4) Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; +10 STR to Disarm roll </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>5) Kidney Blow: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Strike 1d6+1 HKA </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Weapon Element: Blades </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">1  </td><td>Weapon Element: Shotguns [Notes: Never an avid hunter, Dorian has participated at country house shooting parties. He does not carry a shotgun, but can use one if he comes across one.] </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 23

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Language: French (completely fluent; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>Language: English (imitate dialects; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">9  </td><td>High Society 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">11  </td><td>Seduction 17- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Disguise 12- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Stealth 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>PS: Piano 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>PS: Violin 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>KS: Fine Arts (painting, opera, drama) (INT-based) 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>KS: Perfumes (INT-based) 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>KS: music (INT-based) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>KS: Gemstones & gemstone lore (INT-based) 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>KS: Textile, embrodery & tapistries (INT-based) 13- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 67

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Money: Well Off </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 5

Total Character Cost: 336

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Distinctive Features, extremely good looking; blond, blue-eyed, clear complexion, boyish features: (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Distinctive Features, always dresses well: (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Reputation: saytr 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Reputation: bisexual 8- (Extreme (Known Only To A Small Group)) [Notes: This is conjecture, partly based partly on Alan Campbell's unreveiled vice that led to his suicide, partly on Oscar Wilde.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation, will do anything to safeguard his portrate: (Uncommon; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Hedonist (Very Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Lecherous (Very Common; Total) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Total disreguard for feelings/wellbeing of others (Very Common; Strong) [Notes: Not quite sociopathic, but a lack of empathy headed that way.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Jaded (Very Common; Moderate) [Notes: Seen it all, been there, done that twice.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Hunted: Lower aristocracy and upper middle class 14- (As Pow; Watching; Extensive Non-Combat Influence; Limited Geographical Area; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find) [Notes: Dorian's ancestory (grandson of Lord Kelso) and old money (well-off, but not fabulously wealthy) make him a person cultivated by the Better People. His alley-cat morals make him a person shunned by the Best People. Both groups keep and eye on him and will readly exchange any gossip.] </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Note 14 points available for additional knowledge skills or contacts.

MisterD

Jul 13th, '03, 05:11 PM

I guess the Desolid answers how Dorian could take full automatic hits to the chest and stomach withut getting stunned or taking knowkback.

"What are you?"
"I am complicated."

dbcowboy

Jul 13th, '03, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Agent Escafarc
Two possilble answers to this:
A: This is Tom's grandson, they never use his first name in the movie.

B(My first choice) this is the Tom from that live action/animated cartoon from the Bannana Splits Show who when he finally got out of those caves found himself some 30+ years in the future :D

I also liked the fight scenes mainly because they didn't use the slow-motion/wire-fu stuff which I just don't carefor.

I'd heard the Tom Sawyer character was created specifically for the movie due to the absence of any American members of the LXG. If so then not surprising that the character didn't quite "fit" as well as the rest.

Publius

Jul 13th, '03, 07:21 PM

Re: Dorian Grey Character Very interesting McCoy, I like a lot of the things you do for the character. I do have some questions:

What is the -1 Custom Modifier for on Desolidifcation?

The way that I read it, buying the STR with Affects normal World allows him to use HTH Attacks, that does I assume include HTH weapons (i.e. both barehanded and weapon attacks), but would it include ranged weapons as well? Perhaps that was why he did not use any firearms... simply put, he cannot and the character is simply played as if this were an affectation (although he does use a pistol once). Eventually, a Naked Power Modifier could be purchased for him I guess that would allow him to do so, but it might be a spot costly (notice the pistol he used was a small one)...

I agree btw, with the several comments about the Tom Sawyer character's age being off, but overall, they did do a nice job on the character so I basically let it slide. The various explanations I've seen here make a lot of sense.

Killer Shrike

Jul 13th, '03, 07:25 PM

Looks like an interesting writeup, but instead of buying Shotguns as a weapon element for his Martial Arts, you should probably buy that as a Weapon Familiarity. Unless of course he uses the shotgun for Roundhouses and such like.

Just for purposes of gamefying the character, might as well round him off to 350. An Overall Level and a Damage Class for his Martial Arts would do the trick nicely.....

Brandi

Jul 13th, '03, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by dbcowboy
I'd heard the Tom Sawyer character was created specifically for the movie due to the absence of any American members of the LXG.

I've heard that too. Dorian is also apparently a just-for-the-movie character, perhaps to get a pretty young guy into the cast (I haven't seen the actor playing Tom, but Connery, while handsome, is old and the other guys didn't strike me as particularly good-looking).

Killer Shrike

Jul 13th, '03, 07:34 PM

Sawyer was openly added for the American element. As far as Dorian....well I cant comment without spoiling the film, but those of you who have seen the movie know the deal there.

McCoy

Jul 13th, '03, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Publius
Re: Dorian Grey Character Very interesting McCoy, I like a lot of the things you do for the character. I do have some questions:

What is the -1 Custom Modifier for on Desolidifcation?
Must leave real body behind. Couldn't figure out how to put that in the midifier itself, that's why I put it in the notes.

Originally posted by Publius
The way that I read it, buying the STR with Affects normal World allows him to use HTH Attacks, that does I assume include HTH weapons (i.e. both barehanded and weapon attacks), but would it include ranged weapons as well? Perhaps that was why he did not use any firearms... simply put, he cannot and the character is simply played as if this were an affectation (although he does use a pistol once). Eventually, a Naked Power Modifier could be purchased for him I guess that would allow him to do so, but it might be a spot costly (notice the pistol he used was a small one)...

Don't see why not. In the novel a shooting accident left him with a dislike for guns.

And yes, that should have been Weapon Familiarity, swords and shotgun.

Killer Shrike

Jul 13th, '03, 08:08 PM

Just hilite the text in HD and type over it.

CrosshairCollie

Jul 13th, '03, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Ebert and Roeper both stuck their thumbs up for Hulk. I haven't seen their review of LXG yet, but it would be nice if it's positive - they're probably the most widely-quoted film critics.

Actually, Roper said that LXG was going on his list of 10 Worst Movies Of The Year when he critiqued it ...

Publius

Jul 13th, '03, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by McCoy
Must leave real body behind. Couldn't figure out how to put that in the midifier itself, that's why I put it in the notes. Stylistically, I would have done this a bit differently. Notice that this is not even a 'critique', just a different perspective; the way you did this was fine. I would have dropped the -1 "leave body behind" and given Grey's Desolidifcation an additional -1/2 modifer for "Cannot be used to squeeze through tiny spaces" (As I understand it, "Cannot pass through solid matter" still allows you to go through tiny spaces, like the Shoggoth-type creature in the Bestiary). Unfortunately, this would make the power a bit more expensive. Has anyone else seen something like this asa desolidifcation mod? My books are presently packed away, so I am working from memory here...

Then for disadvantages, I would have added something about the painting, perhaps even a custom classification such as: "Damage to Painting damages Character" along with "Looking at uncovered Painting causes ____" (rest of sentence removed for lack of spoilers). Written as a Vulnerability maybe?

Crimson Arrow

Jul 14th, '03, 12:13 AM

The Desolidification needs to have something which can affect Dorian. Damage to the painting wouldn't be enough in my opinion, but the film hasn't been released over here, so perhaps there are changes from the story.

Bearing in mind the origin of the picture. Magic attacks seem most plausible. While I can't recall any overt magic in the LXG comics, there are references to mysticism in a lot of the related stories, for example, "She", featuring Allan Quatermain (Ayesha is immortal because of a sacred flame IIRC).

I can't see why Dorian couldn't pick up a gun and use it (in common sense terms).

Damage to the painting is possibly a Susceptibility.

Dorian was added for the movie, but he is British. On the other hand, C. Auguste Dupin helps the League in volume 1, so I don't think liaising with heroes from other lands is that big a problem. Also, Nemo isn't British (and indeed hates them), so thinking about it again, I suppose Tom Sawyer is not that big a stretch. My concerns were more whether Tom was the best American character they could find. I raised this on the non-gaming board and no one came up with a better choice.

Killer Shrike

Jul 14th, '03, 12:17 AM

Where is "over here" Crimson Arrow? ;)

The only gripe I have with Sawyer is that, as has been pointed out, hed be much older....

Crimson Arrow

Jul 14th, '03, 03:06 AM

Why "over here" is, well over here!

I meant in the UK, as well you knew, KS you scamp.:)

Arthur

Jul 14th, '03, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow

again, I suppose Tom Sawyer is not that big a stretch. My concerns were more whether Tom was the best American character they could find. I raised this on the non-gaming board and no one came up with a better choice.

I was pondering the same thing. Most of the other characters were super in some way, except maybe for Quatermain and Nemo (and even they had tinges of paranormality). Sawyer was just a highly skilled normal (with lots of Luck). So who else could they have gotten?

1. Pecos Bill

2. Paul Bunyan

3. John Henry the Steel-Drivin' Man

That's all I can think of.

Worldmaker

Jul 14th, '03, 07:31 AM

Tom Swift would have been a better American character.

Agent X

Jul 14th, '03, 07:39 AM

Several Gunfighters were literary figures, if you can call those dime novels literary. Wild Bill would have been too old but most gunfighters seemed to be active in the 1870s so, heck, Billy the Kid could have worked. Would have put him in his 40s I think. Or Pat Garrett, he was a physically huge guy too.

Crimson Arrow

Jul 14th, '03, 09:18 AM

I like Arthur's suggestions, but they don't really fit with the League, as my understanding is that they are mythical/legendary, rather than literary characters (although if I've got that wrong, I apologise and please do put me right, I'd like to know). The line can be blurred at times, though.

A famous gunfighter, as Agent X suggested, but the ones mentioned were real people, unlike, say, the Lone Ranger, or Hopalong Cassidy. They might have been talked up in the stories of the day, but they were actual people.

For many purely fictional cowboys, you'd probably have copyright problems. I think a lot were created in the 20th Century. While they could have changed the name, like the did with the Invisible Man, the point of him is that he's invisible, his name doesn't matter much. However, Hopalong Cassidy is just a skilled gunfighter without his name and good luck with the legal action if a masked man on a pure white horse turns up firing silver bullets, calling himself the "Phantom Stranger" (hey, you could get sued by DC as well!).

I like the idea of a detective, but I am a little surprised that there doesn't seem to be another great American one from that era, even if he was written about much later, with his stories simply set at the end of the 19th Century.

What about a young Clark Savage Snr? I'm not sure when he was born; but it could be another of Doc's forebears. Copyright problems again, I suppose.

Killer Shrike

Jul 14th, '03, 10:04 AM

Actually, they are all literary figures. The idea behind LXG was that many of the classic books referencing the Victorian era are in the public domain.

The Griffith as the Invisible Man was thought to be in the public domain, but it turned out after the comic was published that he isnt.

GrayPumpkin

Jul 14th, '03, 11:56 AM

In fact, my only niggling problem with the film is the fact that Tom Sawyer, having been born in 1837 according to the book by the same name, should have been just over 60 years old during this movie, and obviously he's not.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, it’s all in good fun. Besides "Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea" took place in 1866 putting Nemo, who I believe was in his thirties at the time, at least in his sixties by 1899. Not mention that the characters of Hyde and Nemo (as well as Griffin, but I think they had a different Invisible Man for the film) were all dead by 1899. Though I know Mr. Moore got around that somehow.

Crimson Arrow

Jul 14th, '03, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Actually, they are all literary figures. The idea behind LXG was that many of the classic books referencing the Victorian era are in the public domain.

The Griffith as the Invisible Man was thought to be in the public domain, but it turned out after the comic was published that he isnt.

Thanks for that KS, but are those characters literary in that they were written first, or literary in that stories were written about them, codifying and elaborating the tales? Just curious about American folklore, not querying your veracity.

How about Ichabod Crane? IIRC in the original story he vanishes after encountering the Headless Horseman. Perhaps he comes back as the new one? As a ghost, the gap in time periods wouldn't matter. Again, if I've blown my KS: American Folklore and Stories, sorry.

Worldmaker

Jul 14th, '03, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow
How about Ichabod Crane? IIRC in the original story he vanishes after encountering the Headless Horseman. Perhaps he comes back as the new one? As a ghost, the gap in time periods wouldn't matter. Again, if I've blown my KS: American Folklore and Stories, sorry.

150 years too early.

Killer Shrike

Jul 14th, '03, 12:26 PM

Im not massively read up on the classics, but I cant really think of much going on for American literary figures around the late 1800's. Americans of that era apparantly werent too keen on literature :confused:

Of course, as I mention, Im certainly no expert on the subject....

Crimson Arrow

Jul 14th, '03, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Worldmaker
150 years too early.

Not if he's the new Headless Horseman, as I suggested. 150 years wouldn't matter to a ghost.

I was trying to think of figures created earlier or later (hence Doc Savage's father) to get round the apparent lack of suitable characters written in the late 19th Century.

Still, the film's made now!

McCoy

Jul 14th, '03, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Publius
Stylistically, I would have done this a bit differently. Notice that this is not even a 'critique', just a different perspective; the way you did this was fine. I would have dropped the -1 "leave body behind" and given Grey's Desolidifcation an additional -1/2 modifer for "Cannot be used to squeeze through tiny spaces" (As I understand it, "Cannot pass through solid matter" still allows you to go through tiny spaces, like the Shoggoth-type creature in the Bestiary). Unfortunately, this would make the power a bit more expensive. Has anyone else seen something like this asa desolidifcation mod? My books are presently packed away, so I am working from memory here...

Then for disadvantages, I would have added something about the painting, perhaps even a custom classification such as: "Damage to Painting damages Character" along with "Looking at uncovered Painting causes ____" (rest of sentence removed for lack of spoilers). Written as a Vulnerability maybe?

Good point. I will probably add the -1/2 can't squeeze through tiny spaces limitation. The "leave real body behind" was from a discussion of astral projection in Mystic Masters. I chose to ignore the "'Looking at uncovered Painting causes ____' (rest of sentence removed for lack of spoilers)" in favor of the portrait as giant VooDoo doll. In the novel Dorian looked at it several times over the decades, and was fact to face with it when he made the fatal error of trying to destroy it.

(Would Dorian have given away his weakness like that? Or could it be that with the painting in tact, he'll get better?)

McCoy

Jul 14th, '03, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow
The Desolidification needs to have something which can affect Dorian. Damage to the painting wouldn't be enough in my opinion, but the film hasn't been released over here, so perhaps there are changes from the story.

Bearing in mind the origin of the picture. Magic attacks seem most plausible. While I can't recall any overt magic in the LXG comics, there are references to mysticism in a lot of the related stories, for example, "She", featuring Allan Quatermain (Ayesha is immortal because of a sacred flame IIRC).

He's already vulnerable to anything based on ECV or with the affects desolid advantage. Magic was hinted at in the movie, but never overtly shown, so Dorian may well be vulnerable to magic. I will leave that for individual GM's to decide.

McCoy

Jul 14th, '03, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Im not massively read up on the classics, but I cant really think of much going on for American literary figures around the late 1800's. Americans of that era apparantly werent too keen on literature :confused:

Of course, as I mention, Im certainly no expert on the subject....

Louisa May Alcott
Ambrose Bierce
the Bronte sisters
James Fenimore Cooper
Stephen Crain
George Eliot
Joel Chandler Harris
Nathaniel Hawthorne
Washington Irving
Henry James
Jack London
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Herman Melville
Edgar Allan Poe
Harriet Beecher Stowe
Henry David Thoreau
Mark Twain
Lew Wallace
Walt Whitman
Laura Ingalls Wilder

Seems like what a lot of Americans were writing about in the 19th century was, the 18th & 17th centuries. Lots of poetry too. Poe invented the detective story, but failed to invent a memorable detective. Most memorable characters from the authors on this list is B’er Rabbit. No character from these authors can match the real life Ambrose Bierce or Jack London.

McCoy

Jul 14th, '03, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Worldmaker
Tom Swift would have been a better American character.

Two DQ's. First, the first Tom Swift novel was 1910. Second, Victor Appleton's grandchildren, or possibly by now great grandchildren, has maintained the copyright by continuing the Swift family adventures for four generations.

Correction to previous list, somehow left Horatio Alger, Jr, off of the list, but while I know the general plot of his books (one plot, 120 books), I can't nane a single one of his protagonist.

It was not a time for character driven literature on this side of the pond. Tom and Huck are the most memorable characters of 19th century American literature.

(Which brings up the question, wy special agent Sawyer? Think of special agent Finn, then reveil at a critical point of the movie that his given name is Huckleberry.)

McCoy

Jul 14th, '03, 10:07 PM

OK, let's see if I've improved with Hero Designer. Based on the movie, the graphic novel, and Dracula (http://www.dagonbytes.com/vampires/dracula/brom/chapter01.htm) , especally Chapter XVIII (http://www.dagonbytes.com/vampires/dracula/brom/chapter18.htm) .

Wilhelmina Murray Harker

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>STR</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>DEX</td><td>39</td></tr><tr><td align="right">30  </td><td>CON</td><td>40</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>INT</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>EGO</td><td>26</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>PRE</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td align="right">16  </td><td>COM</td><td>3</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>PD</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">5  </td><td>SPD</td><td>17</td></tr><tr><td align="right">12  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">60  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 168

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>Vampiric Powers: Elemental Control, 30-point powers, all slots: (15 Active Points); Limited Power (Night only; -1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>1) Bite: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (plus STR) (vs. PD) (30 Active Points); No Knockback (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">6  </td><td>2) Mind Control 5d6, Telepathic (+1/4) (31 Active Points); Eye Contact Required (-1/2) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">26  </td><td>3) Healing BODY 1d6 (max. Healed Points: 6) (Resurrection), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Limited Power (Weapon must be removed from wound before healing can activate; -1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>4) Flight 15" (30 Active Points) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">7  </td><td>5) Shrinking (0.2476 m tall, 0.1238 m wide, 0.1949 kg mass, -6 PER Rolls to perceive character, +6 DCV, +9" KB) (30 Active Points); No Growth Momentum (-1/4) </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>6) Bat Swarm: Darkness to Sight Group 2" radius, Altered Shape (Any Area; +0), Megascale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4) (30 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Nonselective Target (-1/4) [Notes: Had considered multiform, swarm of bats, or shapeshift to a bat combined with lots of duplication, or summon bats. But in the movie the function of the bat swarm was to obscure the sight of the snipers, so I went with darkness, with the bat swarm a special effect.] </td><td valign="top" align="right">3</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">30  </td><td>Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">15  </td><td>Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50% (30 Active Points); Limited Power ( not vs silver or wood ; -1) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">8  </td><td>Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat, Longevity: Immortal) </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Nightvision </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 123

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Martial Arts Maneuver</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR vs. Grabs </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, +10 STR for holding on </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Martial Strike: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR +2d6 Strike </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Nerve Strike: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, 2d6 NND </td></tr></table>Martial Arts Cost: 18

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>+2 with HTH Combat </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">6  </td><td>PS: Stenographer 15- [Notes: Shorthand & Typing] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>SS: Chemistry 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Seduction 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Shadowing 14- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Stealth 16- </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 38

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Talent</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); Limited Power (fades over time; -1/2) [Notes: Mina trained herself to remember conversations verbatum, and transcribe them later in shorthand. Almost a phonographic memory, but will fade if she does not reanscribe the conversation within a few days.] </td></tr></table>Talents Cost: 3

Total Character Cost: 350

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">35  </td><td>Enraged/Frenzy: sight/smell of blood (Very Common), go 14-, recover 8- [Notes: Mina does not seem to need to feed on any schedule, but, sharklike, the sight or smell of blood awakes her -- appitites. Thought of doing this as a psychological limitation or even distinctive feature, but it seemed closer to an enrage.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Scar on neck, almost always covered by a scarf (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Does not eat or drink in public (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) [Notes: Unless in a frenzy, and then only blood.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">30  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x STUN fire (Very Common) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">30  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x BODY fire (Very Common) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Attacks to heart (hit location 10 or -3 OCV on called shot) (Uncommon) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Vulnerability: 2 x BODY Attacks to heart (hit location 10 or -3 OCV on called shot) (Uncommon) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">10  </td><td>Susceptibility: stake, blade, or arrow through the heart (hit location 10 or -3 OCV on called shot) paralized, Instant (Uncommon) </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 150

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

William Bushway

Jul 14th, '03, 10:21 PM

Twain wrote two more stories about Sawyer; Tom Sawyer Abroad, and Tom Sawyer: Detective. I'm guessing that the U.S. sent Tom because he was a detective and because he'd already been across the pond once (in Tom Sawyer Abroad he crosses the Atlantic in a balloon).

Fireg0lem

Jul 15th, '03, 09:10 AM

I think the problem literarily is not the lack of good novels, but that there were not many good novels written in which the heroes bordered on superhuman rather than just being above average.

Mastermind

Jul 15th, '03, 09:32 AM

thanks for the .hdc on Mina Harker

McCoy

Jul 15th, '03, 09:52 AM

You're welcome. I'm hoping someone else does Nemo, lots of points into the Nautilus and crew.

James Gillen

Jul 15th, '03, 12:09 PM

Mastermind

Jul 15th, '03, 12:47 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Worldmaker
In fact, my only niggling problem with the film is the fact that Tom Sawyer, having been born in 1837 according to the book by the same name, should have been just over 60 years old during this movie, and obviously he's not.

But then what do I know... I'm just a film critic...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe he has Life Support: Longevity, 200 years?

;)

Dr. MID-Nite

Jul 15th, '03, 01:02 PM

I liked LXG quite a bit. The story was a bit thin, but I kind of went in thinking the film was more about the spectacle than the plot, so it didn't bother me too much. the only bit that bothered me was when the Nautilus fired the "missle". That stretched scientific reality a bit too much. Tanks, subs, cars, and machine guns were all possible in 1899. the missle went too far. If they had simply said it was an "exceptionally accurate artillery shell" and protrayed it as such, I think it would have worked much better. the characters were all fairly interesting, but I don't know much about Quartermain, so I have no idea if the movie portrays him right. the others all had their moments. I'd like to see a sequel, but hard to say if there will be one.

Rob

The Mad GM

Jul 15th, '03, 01:36 PM

I was very disappointed. I don't think this film lived up to its potential in a number of ways. Any one of those characters was good enough for their own book, and squeezing them into one movie meant that none were allowed to shine, and no real interaction occurred. There were plot gaps you could drive the Nautilus through, and the bad guy acted absolutely nothing like his literary inspiration. The fight scenes were confused and the overall plot very weak.

It has one thing going for it. It makes me want to re-read the classics it rips off to try to undo any cultural damage it negligently inflicted.

Publius

Jul 15th, '03, 02:07 PM

The problem of course is that if the story were about one of the characters it wouldn't exactly be a "League" would it? The main purpose is to take these literary characters and place them together, kind of the crux of the thing. There was some interaction I thought, not a wealth of it obviously, but interaction nonetheless.

What do you consider to be the huge plot gaps? Not that I am implying that there are not any, but I'm kind of wondering what you thought of as a huge plot gap specifically.

The Bag guy did act a bit wussy to be the characeer he was supposed to be, and this could get us back into the apparent age situation as well. Always thought of as a much older man certainly.

Hoiw were the fight scenes confused? I assume you mean cinematography yes? There were times, I kind of felt that way too, and others where the fight scenes were fine. I guess that it depended on the fight scene overall.

Kevin Scrivner

Jul 15th, '03, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Dr. MID-Nite
The characters were all fairly interesting, but I don't know much about Quartermain, so I have no idea if the movie portrays him right.
Rob

Alan Quartermain was introduced in H. Rider Haggard's "King Solomon's Mines." He was a middle-aged, largely self-educated Englishman who was an expert at tracking and hunting in southern Africa. He made his living taking wealthy gentlemen on safari. Most of his income went to bettering his son's prospects; the boy was studying medicine in London. Despite his expertise as a guide and marksman and rough-and-tumble lifestyle, Quartermain was a pious, humble man who consistently underplayed his heroism in recounting his adventures. Think Indiana Jones without the cocky swagger. Also, despite being a product of colonial era, Quartermain respected the tribesmen he encountered and worked with and treated them as men rather than as pack animals or wild animals.

"King Solomon's Mines" is well worth the read. The Stewart Granger movie version is OK but doesn't measure up to the book. Avoid the Lost Ark ripoff version from the 1980s.

Haggard continued Quartermain's adventures in the novel "Alan Quartermain" as well as in some short stories.

The Mad GM

Jul 15th, '03, 02:51 PM

LIGHT SPOILERS HERE

The point of the book "Dracula" was to save Mina from vampirism, and they succeeded. Why did she leave John (they never mention this in the movie that I can recall)? If they wanted to use a female literary vampire, why not Lucy Westerna? Her surviving a beheading and a stake would be less a stretch, in my opinion. And Mina seemed unaffected by daylight which should have rendered her near catatonic, and they didn't even touch the religious issues inherent in Stoker's vision of vampirism.

***SPOILER*** Just how big is the Nautilas, anyway? Aircraft carrier sized as it first appeared or small enough to fit in an opening that I know isn't more than 60 feet wide. And I know he gets around alot, but was he ever a martial artist in the book? He should have pulled out a gadget and shot the bad guys, or relied on his sword.

Jekyll should have placed himself in situations where Hyde's only course of action was to do the right thing, then drank the potion. Hyde's supposed to be a sociopath of the first rank.

Sawyer, even if you discount the age discrepancies and the fact that the American government was still firmly isolationist at the time, should have been alot more consistently witty, and had a more pronounced accent. And if he was an agent of the American government, why did he never report in? Where was his backup? It would have worked better if he was working on his own, and lied about the agent thing.

***SPOILER*** DaVinci had nothing to do with the engineering of Venice, which is not built on stilts, and why on earth were the plans in the vault in the Bank of England? And why did he need to steal them? A truly military strike would have served his purpose better.

***SPOILER*** If you want to frame an invisible guy with a crime, you kill him and leave the body somewhere where it won't get bumped into, cause its invisible. Failing that, you carry around a few handfuls of flour and randomly fling it about.

I know he's complicated, but how did he learn to stear the vehicle he stole, much less navigate? And how did Tom learn to drive?

***SPOILER*** Photos of the bridge of a ship wouldn't tell you squat about the nature of the engines.

If you can invent a machine gun and a tank decades earlier than anyone else, why are you bothering to rob banks? The man should be insanely wealthy in any event!

If you're in an insane hurry to get from point A to point B, shouldn't there be some trace of wind in your hair? And shouldn't a floating buoy speed rapidly backwards?

If I was the main villain, and I knew about all these people, I would have arranged to confront them one by one and get what I wanted. Putting all your eggs in one basket is pathetic. The entire plot seemed like waaay too much effort for little potential return on the part of the main villain. I know this over-complexity of schemes is a staple of serial villains, but this was not a serial villain. And he should have been not only older, but just way more intelligent. Never run from a sniper across an open field.

The main fight scenes were way too choppy. They gave me a headache.

I'm not done, but I have to stop now. I need to calm down.

Killer Shrike

Jul 15th, '03, 03:34 PM

Most honorable Grand Master of Flowers, the Grand Master of the East Wind requests that you continue. He's getting a good laugh out of it, and its really pissing off the Grand Master of Noontime Shadows, which delights the Grand Master of the East Wind to no end. :D

Prometheus

Jul 15th, '03, 03:48 PM

A two hour movie only has so much room to work with, and in translating The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen into LXG, there were alot of compromises to be made.

The original comic book series had fewer characters and more time to develop. It also didn't have to appeal to a target demographic (or at least not as much) as the film did. Hence, there are no American characters, and the lead is a strong female character with no apparent "extraordinary" abilities. The comic book ran into fewer problems involving public domain, and was able to skirt around it more effectively when it did- compare LXG's "An Invisible Man" to The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's "Doctor".

Actors and actresses can muddle things up as well. Monica Bellucci bowed out of the role of Mina, and while she is not very well known in the States, she would have been great. And if half the rumors about Sean Connery's creative differences with director and screenwriter are true, it's a wonder the movie didn't turn into Alan Quartermain and his Amazing Friends .

Take the movie with a grain of salt. While it can't compare to the original story, it can still be alot of fun.

McCoy

Jul 15th, '03, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by The Mad GM
LIGHT SPOILERS HERE

The point of the book "Dracula" was to save Mina from vampirism, and they succeeded. Why did she leave John (they never mention this in the movie that I can recall)? If they wanted to use a female literary vampire, why not Lucy Westerna? Her surviving a beheading and a stake would be less a stretch, in my opinion. And Mina seemed unaffected by daylight which should have rendered her near catatonic, and they didn't even touch the religious issues inherent in Stoker's vision of vampirism.

LXG
Quartermain: Please tell me this is Harker's wife, bringing a note that he's out sick.

Mina: Somewhat of an understatement, I'm afraid. My husband is dead.

Re-read Dracula, especally chapter 18. "His power ceases, as does that of all evil things, at the coming of the day. Only at certain times can he have limited freedom. If Ire be not at the place whither he is bound, he can only change himself at noon or at exact sunrise or sunset." No damage from sunlight, no daytime coma, only reduced powers. Also note Mina used a mirror, while Van Helsing said that vampires had no reflection. (I was very sorry to lose that distinctive feature in Mina's writeup.)

My explanation? This is an alternate universe, where John died killing Dracula. Mina was neither killed or cured, but remained a living vampire, dhampir, simular to Marvel's Blade.

Prometheus

Jul 15th, '03, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by McCoy
My explanation? This is an alternate universe, where John died killing Dracula. Mina was neither killed or cured, but remained a living vampire, dhampir, simular to Marvel's Blade.

The original League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is set in a more industrialized version of England than found in any of the characters' source material. So the screenwriter probably saw no problem in further diverging from the original stories.

Mina's character is the most different from the comic, where she is the stubborn leader of the group. She is not only divorced (she goes by Mina Murray), but was "ravaged by a foreigner", and displays the attitudes and behavior of a feminist decades ahead of their time. Mina's character is played with much more subtlety- other than the scarf she constantly wears and the occasional ability to convince others to her way of thinking, she shows no signs of vampirism in the first series. The loss of Belucci and Connery's rumored unwillingness to play "a drug-addled weakling" apparently shifted the lead to Quartermain.

"V"

Jul 15th, '03, 11:46 PM

Monsieur Gillen wrote

That, and (according to both the movie and the comic) Hyde was the killer 'ape' in Poe's Murders in the Rue Morgue, and Poe died several years after the LXG story...

Only speaking for the comics, but IIRC Dupin came out of retirement because of the similarities between the recent "Hyde" incidents and the much earlier orangutan incidents from the original Rue Morgue murders.

Jekyll would have moved to Paris in LOEG chronology much later than the Rue Morgue incident so the chances are that the original Rue Morgue murders were indeed the work of the crazed ape rather than the shapeshifting Englishman.

I'm still waiting for the film LXG (X!) to be released in England. I think, from comments on the board, as an avid fan of the comic series I should approach it as a separate entity entirely in order to give the film a fair hearing.

The Mad GM

Jul 16th, '03, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by McCoy
Re-read Dracula, especally chapter 18. "His power ceases, as does that of all evil things, at the coming of the day. Only at certain times can he have limited freedom. If Ire be not at the place whither he is bound, he can only change himself at noon or at exact sunrise or sunset." No damage from sunlight, no daytime coma, only reduced powers. Also note Mina used a mirror, while Van Helsing said that vampires had no reflection. (I was very sorry to lose that distinctive feature in Mina's writeup.)

I stand corrected. As I mentioned, this movies' primary good point is that it fosters an urge to reread the originals in an effort to purge the "Hollywood Makeover" versions from my mind. And the religious overtones of damnation were completely edited out. We're getting back to 'vampirism is cool' sort of thing, which is fine if you aren't claiming to have a Victorian literary source.

My explanation? This is an alternate universe, where John died killing Dracula. Mina was neither killed or cured, but remained a living vampire, dhampir, simular to Marvel's Blade.

But it is just such deviations from the originals, or at the least from an audiences' expectations, that need to be explained. One well delivered sentence would have worked, like "That annoying journalist Stoker got a few things wrong..." or something. Throw me a bone here, people.

Darth Sarcastic

Jul 16th, '03, 05:56 AM

LXG: Very Good Movie. Jekyll/Hyde is what the Hulk should've been. One too many "Bond-isms" like "M" was thier boss, Quatermain being called "Q" and talking about his numerous lovers and of course "...Sawyer, Tom Sawyer..."

Enforcer84

Jul 16th, '03, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by "V"
Monsieur Gillen wrote

Only speaking for the comics, but IIRC Dupin came out of retirement because of the similarities between the recent "Hyde" incidents and the much earlier orangutan incidents from the original Rue Morgue murders.

Jekyll would have moved to Paris in LOEG chronology much later than the Rue Morgue incident so the chances are that the original Rue Morgue murders were indeed the work of the crazed ape rather than the shapeshifting Englishman.

I'm still waiting for the film LXG (X!) to be released in England. I think, from comments on the board, as an avid fan of the comic series I should approach it as a separate entity entirely in order to give the film a fair hearing.

Judging from what I have read that is a good bet. I am actually going to see the movie before reading the series. I had to drastically cut my comic book purchases in order to pay for school and food. I eagerly anticipate both...

Agent X

Jul 16th, '03, 02:04 PM

Has anyone worked up any write-ups for the characters from LXG? I noticed that Nemo is mentioned in the CU. Maybe, if someone hasn't done it already we should start.

Killer Shrike

Jul 16th, '03, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Agent X
Has anyone worked up any write-ups for the characters from LXG? I noticed that Nemo is mentioned in the CU. Maybe, if someone hasn't done it already we should start. Scroll back thru this post; 2 have been put forward so far IIRC

Arthur

Jul 16th, '03, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by Darth Sarcastic
LXG: Very Good Movie. Jekyll/Hyde is what the Hulk should've been. One too many

Some truth to that. When we first saw Dr. Jekyll, my first thought was "Now, that's what Bruce Banner should have looked like."

Agent X

Jul 17th, '03, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Killer Shrike
Scroll back thru this post; 2 have been put forward so far IIRC Cool. Anybody up to writing Nemo?

McCoy

Jul 17th, '03, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Agent X
Cool. Anybody up to writing Nemo?

Not yet, just Dorian and Mina. Working on Henry & Edward now, lot harder than I thought it would be. Skinner's next, then Quartermain.

I'm leaving Nemo for last, in the hopes that someone else will write him up. Are you offering to do that?

Thag13

Jul 17th, '03, 11:13 AM

As I understand. quite a lot of the filming script was cut to fit a 2 hour running time. As I understand nearly an hour is left on the cutting room floor and will be in the DVD.

I understand several plot points are expanded and explanded.

I liked the movie and enjoyed it quite well. The fight scenes were exciting to me. I just dont get the really negative reviews of the movie.

just my 2 cents

THAG

Mastermind

Jul 17th, '03, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Thag13
As I understand. quite a lot of the filming script was cut to fit a 2 hour running time. As I understand nearly an hour is left on the cutting room floor and will be in the DVD.

I understand several plot points are expanded and explanded.

THAG

See...that is very cool to hear!

Agent X

Jul 17th, '03, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by McCoy
Not yet, just Dorian and Mina. Working on Henry & Edward now, lot harder than I thought it would be. Skinner's next, then Quartermain.

I'm leaving Nemo for last, in the hopes that someone else will write him up. Are you offering to do that? I honestly don't feel qualified. I can fudge some of the others but I have very little background with Captain Nemo.

McCoy

Jul 17th, '03, 09:59 PM

Lots of decisions need to be made before you can even start on Dr. Henry Jekyll's character sheet. Most important, what triggers the transformation to Edward Hyde?

In the book, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/hyde/drjek01.htm), Hyde had become more or less the natural form, and it took constant and increasing doses of his serum to remain as Jekyll.

In the graphic novel, the transformation was Hulk-like, driven by stress or anger.

In the movie, we find a 180 from the book, Jekyll had to take his serum to change to Hyde, and he changed back when it wore off. This is the one I decided to go with.

Next, multiform or not. I decided not. Henry and Edward are in many ways conjoined twins, each has full memory of what the other has done. I finally decided that Edward is the Id, Henry the Superego, and the characted the result of the conflict between them.

This is my interpetation of the character, I'd like to see others.

Dr. Henry Jekyll & Mr. Edward Hyde

Player:

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Char   </td><td>Cost</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/60  </td><td>STR</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">18  </td><td>DEX</td><td>24</td></tr><tr><td align="right">20  </td><td>CON</td><td>20</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10/20  </td><td>BODY</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">23  </td><td>INT</td><td>13</td></tr><tr><td align="right">13  </td><td>EGO</td><td>6</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>PRE</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">10  </td><td>COM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">4/19  </td><td>PD</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4/19  </td><td>ED</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">4  </td><td>SPD</td><td>12</td></tr><tr><td align="right">6  </td><td>REC</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">40  </td><td>END</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">25/50  </td><td>STUN</td><td>0</td></tr><td></td><td> </td><td></td></tr><tr><td align="right">6"  </td><td>RUN</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"  </td><td>SWIM</td><td>0</td></tr><tr><td align="right">2"/12"  </td><td>LEAP</td><td>0</td></tr></table>Characteristics Cost: 77

<table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Power</td><td align="right">END</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">72  </td><td>Hyde powers: (Total: 156 Active Cost, 72 Real Cost) Growth (+25 STR, +5 BODY, +5 STUN, -5" KB, -2 DCV, +2 PER Rolls to perceive character, 4 m tall, 2 m wide, 32 kg mass), 15 Continuing Charges lasting 6 Hours or ntil END reserve = 0 each which Recover every 1 Week + access to lab (+1 1/4) (56 Active Points); Fragile OAF, only to start power (-1), All or nothing (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) (Real Cost: 20) plus Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points); Linked to Growth (-1/2), Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) (Real Cost: 26) plus +25 STR (25 Active Points); Linked to Growth (-1/2), Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value (-1/4), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) (uses END Reserve) (added to Secondary Value) (Real Cost: 11) plus +5 BODY (10 Active Points); Linked to Growth (-1/2), Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value (-1/4), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) (added to Secondary Value) (Real Cost: 4) plus +20 STUN (20 Active Points); Linked to Growth (-1/2), Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value (-1/4) (added to Secondary Value) (Real Cost: 11) [Notes: The more STR Edward uses, the more quickly he burns out the serum and reverts to Henry. Note that Edward has twice the BODY and STUN as Henry, when he changes back the STUN & BODY pips left are cut in half during the change. If Henry changes again before being fully healed, double the current pips.] </td><td valign="top" align="right">2</td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">21  </td><td>Endurance Reserve (200 END, 1 REC) Reserve: (21 Active Points) REC: ; Limited Recovery, only as Henry (-1), Slow Recovery (5 Minutes; -1) [Notes: This is not based on anything in the original novel, graphic novel, or movie, but it explains why Edward does not stay Hyde full time.] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Infrared Perception </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">3  </td><td>Ultrasonic Perception [Notes: I chose not to link the enhanced senses to the other powers, in the movie, Henry did perceve the ultrasonic signal on the phonograph record (even though Edward was not able to make him understand the significance of it).] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top">5  </td><td>Double-shot "Snake-eyes" derrenger: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 (vs. PD) (15 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2), IAF (-1/2) [Notes: Again, no source for this, just something for Henry to keep in his pocket so that he is not helpless when Edward cannot come out and play. Innobvious to reflect its concealability.] </td><td valign="top" align="right"></td></tr></table>Powers Cost: 106

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Skill</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Breakfall 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Climbing 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Streetwise 13- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">25  </td><td>+5 with HTH Combat </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>Paramedics 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>SS: Biology 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>SS: Chemistry 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>SS: Psychology 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">7  </td><td>PS: Psycharist 16- </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Language: English (idiomatic; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">4  </td><td>Language: French (completely fluent; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Language: Latin (fluent conversation; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Language: Greek (fluent conversation; literate) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">3  </td><td>Language: German (fluent conversation; literate) [Notes: English & French because he's Canadian, Latin & Greek would have been required at the University, German to read Freud in the original.] </td></tr></table>Skills Cost: 91

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Cost  </td><td>Perk</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">2  </td><td>License to Practice Medicine: Custom Perk </td></tr></table>Perks Cost: 2

Total Character Cost: 276

<table cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td align="right">Val  </td><td>Disadvantages</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Addicted to serum (Common; Strong) [Notes: Henry must make an EGO roll nightly or drink his serum and let Edward out. -1 to EGO roll for each 24 hours since the last change.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Shame, guilt & remorse (Common; Strong) [Notes: Henry remembers everything Edward does, and is ashamed of most of it. Leads to Henry feeling he is weak because he cannot contain Edward. Play as Inferiority Complex.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Physical Limitation: Schitzophrenia/multiple personality (All the Time; Slightly Impairing) [Notes: This classifies as schitzophrenia because they hear voices. Edward is Henry's Id, Henry is Edward's Superego. I choose to dismiss seeing each other's faces in reflective surfaces as dramatic convention, an excuse to put both faces on the screen to dramatize the internal conversations.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Susceptibility: Ultrasonics 1d6 damage, Instant (Uncommon) </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">20  </td><td>Distinctive Features: Muscular Giant (Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses) [Notes: Edward only. Concealable by not drinking serum.] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">15  </td><td>Psychological Limitation: Sociopath (Uncommon; Total) [Notes: Edward has absolutely no reguard for socital norms or the rights of others. ] </td></tr><tr><td valign="top" align="right">5  </td><td>Enraged: Wounded (Uncommon), go 8-, recover 14- [Notes: Edward is smarter that most people think. He has Henry's full intelligence, he just applies it differently. He pretends to have an anger management problem to lull opponents into underestimating him, but he rarely actually looses his temper.] </td></tr></table>
Disadvantage Points: 90

Base Points: 200
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

Speedball

Jul 18th, '03, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by McCoy

Correction to previous list, somehow left Horatio Alger, Jr, off of the list, but while I know the general plot of his books (one plot, 120 books), I can't nane a single one of his protagonist.

There's Ragged Dick, from the novel of the same name. His power? Relentless optimism and a faith in hard work.

ok, it's not much of a power, I grant you, but his name alone might prompt you to give him a Presence attack when used (listeners are paralyzed with laughter)...

Toadmaster

Jul 24th, '03, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow
Dorian was added for the movie, but he is British. On the other hand, C. Auguste Dupin helps the League in volume 1, so I don't think liaising with heroes from other lands is that big a problem. Also, Nemo isn't British (and indeed hates them), so thinking about it again, I suppose Tom Sawyer is not that big a stretch. My concerns were more whether Tom was the best American character they could find. I raised this on the non-gaming board and no one came up with a better choice.

I thought Jim West from Wild, Wild, West (Robert Conrad, not Will Smith) would have been a nice choice for an American, the show was shortly after the Civil War so the older Conrad wouldbe about right and it seems appropriate for the American to be based on a TV show rather than literature (fits us better). Of course from a story point it would have added another "old guy" and the interaction between Sawyer and Quartermain would not have worked with West unless they made him younger.

Le Schtroumpf

Jul 25th, '03, 10:17 PM

Once again this requires ignoring the fact that chronologically Tom Sawyer should likewise been in his 60s. One does not cavort as a teen in the 1850's and party like it's 1899 as a twenty something.

OddHat

Jul 26th, '03, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by McCoy
Lots of decisions need to be made before you can even start on Dr. Henry Jekyll's character sheet. Most important, what triggers the transformation to Edward Hyde?
<snip>

Excellent write-up of the movie version of the character. Nothing in the film about it, but I might drop the armor and add some regeneration. Hyde was afraid of being shot, and it's not unraeasonable to assume that a formula that makes him into a giant might also heal him up a bit. Maybe some Damage Reduction defined as "Evil Never Dies."

McCoy

Jul 26th, '03, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by OddHat
Excellent write-up of the movie version of the character. Nothing in the film about it, but I might drop the armor and add some regeneration. Hyde was afraid of being shot, and it's not unraeasonable to assume that a formula that makes him into a giant might also heal him up a bit. Maybe some Damage Reduction defined as "Evil Never Dies."

Thank you. I had considered adding regeneration, but wondered if I was getting into adding powers not shown in the movie just because they were cool.

Character now is only 276 points, If a GM wants to use this version they could add regeneration, or other poweres to fit their vision.

I was amazed at how few points this character took, but I definitely did not want to take the STR beyond 60.

Enforcer84

Jul 26th, '03, 09:27 PM

Finally saw the movie tonight. I was entertained. I once again correctly picked a major plot point by deduction before even seeing the film...Chad Riley, Boy detective at your service...

I have no complaints, it was good fun, there were a few surprises. I really enjoyed Nemo's asthetic sensibilities from the Nautalis, his other vehicles, down to his men's weapons, Nemo exuded an artistic sensability that I found really enjoyable. I liked all the characters only wishing that more development had been done on all of them (probably should read the source material, eh?)

The villain did kind of leave me cold. He wasn't much of anything really.

Perhaps if a sequal is made it will have a decent villain.

OddHat

Jul 26th, '03, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by McCoy
I had considered adding regeneration, but wondered if I was getting into adding powers not shown in the movie just because they were cool.

As I said, excellent write up, and I understand not wanting to add powers. What it comes down to for me is that Hyde is afraid of guns; if he can bounce bullets, he doesn't know it. On the other hand, the realities of gaming show that sooner or later he will get shot, and if you want him to come back in the next scene you need some way to keep him in play. Armor is a good option, maybe with the explanation that he doesn't know he's bullet proof. Personally I like 50% PD DamRed, Resistant, plus regen. All's fair...

Argus

Jul 27th, '03, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by Crimson Arrow
I suppose Tom Sawyer is not that big a stretch. My concerns were more whether Tom was the best American character they could find. I raised this on the non-gaming board and no one came up with a better choice.

Wild Bill Hickok, Wyatt Earp, The Lone Ranger, Brisco County, Jim West, Paladin, Maverick, Billy the Kid, Butch or Sundance, Judge Roy Bean.

A.

McCoy

Jul 27th, '03, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Argus
Wild Bill Hickok, Wyatt Earp, The Lone Ranger, Brisco County, Jim West, Paladin, Maverick, Billy the Kid, Butch or Sundance, Judge Roy Bean.

A.

All either historical persons or retcon, all of the retcons still under copyright.

SleepyDrug

Jul 27th, '03, 08:38 AM

I'm curious if anyone has sorted through the various authors of this era and compiled a list of the character's most suited to participating in an LXG type campaign.

OddHat

Jul 27th, '03, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by SleepyDrug
I'm curious if anyone has sorted through the various authors of this era and compiled a list of the character's most suited to participating in an LXG type campaign.

Great place to start:
http://www.geocities.com/jessnevins/vicintro.html

GamePhil

Jul 27th, '03, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Argus
Wild Bill Hickok, Wyatt Earp, The Lone Ranger, Brisco County, Jim West, Paladin, Maverick, Billy the Kid, Butch or Sundance, Judge Roy Bean.

While all great characters or legends (including the individuals that are historical but whom legends grew up around), none of them fit the mold. All of the characters in the League lived around the turn of the last century, and were written around that time. While, for example, Jim West would be logical because he lived around the right time, he isn't a piece of classical literature of the day, and so doesn't fit the theme.

As for young Mr. Sawyer: I don't recall any mention that he was actually the character from the novels. He could be the son or grandson of the original character, sharing his ability to get into trouble. Still not a perfect fit, and I would have had no problem if he had never been included, but it can work.