lets make this work: Instant Change

[JmOz]

OK, everyone, I have a problem with the current way to do instant change, put bluntly it is not built right. The problem is

A) It's a 1/2 phase combat action
B) It can be used on others
C) It's ranged


NOw the second & third problem is easy to fix (Self-only limitation) but the first one, well...

Anyways, here is my build, some thoughts?

Instant Change: Cosmetic Transform 2d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Limited Target: Worn Clothes ([Very Limited]; -1), No Range (-1/2)

Total cost 6 points

Now I am questioning the no range as double dipping...

[Comic]

I'd say you're not double-dipping at all, if anything you're not dipping enough.

No Range still allows adjacent targets, and adjacent targets can still wear clothes, so unless you mean to change the clothes of your opponents with this power, you haven't limited it enough to get classic Instant Change.

Also, you haven't specified 'Transform only to specific costume or back to clothes worn when last changed', which I believe you mean, since it's how Instant Change originally worked?

All in all, a pretty good point, and a pretty good solution proposed.

[jkwleisemann]

Personally, I like to think I've got an easier solution... I just grandfather in the old one.

But not bad at putting it together with the current rules... I just miss the old version. No particular reason it *can't* be grandfathered in either, just a matter of folks streamlining things just a *smidge* more than was strictly necessary, I think.

[JmOz]

I'd say you're not double-dipping at all, if anything you're not dipping enough.

No Range still allows adjacent targets, and adjacent targets can still wear clothes, so unless you mean to change the clothes of your opponents with this power, you haven't limited it enough to get classic Instant Change.

Also, you haven't specified 'Transform only to specific costume or back to clothes worn when last changed', which I believe you mean, since it's how Instant Change originally worked?

All in all, a pretty good point, and a pretty good solution proposed.

I'll think on the limitations some more, you bring up a good point. Irronicaly another -1/2 "Self only" would bring the cost to 5 points...

The second part, base level transform only permits you to transform something into one other thing (Costume), the build assumes the "reversible" form of transform, where the method of healing is resetting the trigger (Opposed to the recovery method), I guess a case could be made that this is an extremly limited version of what it transforms into, but I tend to think of the difference as a -/+0

[JmOz]

Personally, I like to think I've got an easier solution... I just grandfather in the old one.

But not bad at putting it together with the current rules... I just miss the old version. No particular reason it *can't* be grandfathered in either, just a matter of folks streamlining things just a *smidge* more than was strictly necessary, I think.

I would actualy have prefered the old method myself, same with a only minorly tweeked regeneration (Adding the healing adders)

[Tech]

Personally, I like to think I've got an easier solution... I just grandfather in the old one.

But not bad at putting it together with the current rules... I just miss the old version. No particular reason it *can't* be grandfathered in either, just a matter of folks streamlining things just a *smidge* more than was strictly necessary, I think.

I use the old Instant Change. There are a few heroes in the campaign I'm in who use powered armor (in the vein of Iron Man and not similar but you get the idea) and have it built in to change to their foci armor instantly. I'm not going into how they do it as that's not my point. One character has a pretty big suit of armor, coming close to 8 feet high or so with a good deal of body, far more than clothes.

As currently written up in the 5th (I don't have 5th revised), the power Instant Change fails to perform. No mere 2d6 Cosmetic Transform is going to cover the transformation into the big suit, i.e. 12 body rolled is twice 6 body max that can be transformed, when that suit has 18 Body. The write-up example, which goes into detail as to how it should be built but doesn't mention Trigger (unlike JmOz in his example which is nicely written up) and it should be considered for free to be a zero-phase action.

The original power has been changed into a Transform power and seems to be that it only works with clothing, based on the Power Example given. Also, based on the wording, it can't work with anything but clothing. I checked the 1st and 2nd edition of Champions of how Instant Change worked & was worded. First edition Instant Change states "This power allows a character to instantly change from secret identity to superhero form." The 2nd edition is likewise worded that same way, allowing the instant change to a powered suit and back.

I much prefer a separate power called Instant Change, instead of a convoluted version incompletely written up using Transform.

[Hugh Neilson]

Instant Change: Cosmetic Transform 2d6, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset; +1/2) (15 Active Points); Limited Target: Worn Clothes ([Very Limited]; -1), No Range (-1/2)

Total cost 6 points

Now I am questioning the no range as double dipping...

I'd say that the ability to only change clothing worn by the user into other clothing worn by the user is very limited indeed, so much so that a -2 limitation may be appropriate. Getting there with Limited Target: Worn Clothes ([Very Limited]; -1), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) seems reasonable.

I think "no range" should be added to any power that would normally have range and loses its ability to act at range.

[Force]

This is what happens when you take something simple (and not broken) and make it complicated (and broken).

[Nekkidcarpenter]

I'm personally more than okay with the way the cosmetic transform works, especially on powered armor builds. The player wants to shave 1/4 limitation or more on all his powers by buying them OIHD or some such, but then wants to be able to instantly change form very cheaply. This IMO makes that 1/4 limitation not actually limiting, and as a munchkin myself, I strongly suspect that's exactly the point. If you have a suit of armor thats saving you 50 points then you have limited options as far as I'm concerned.

One, your instant change is expensive. It's trying to change a lot of points instantly, and that ain't cheap.

Two, it ain't instant.


Three, it don't save you a ridiculous amount of points.

Pick one.

[Chris Goodwin]

On the Transform: I would say, if you're not using it in combat against a target who is trying to resist, then it's not a combat action.

That said, the cost structure for Shapeshift more closely represents the effect of the original Instant Change, except that Shapeshift costs END. But if you're willing to use it, Shapeshift vs. Sight Group, 0 END Cost, Clothes Only (-1) ought to do it. Add a Limitation if you can only shift between, say, two suits of clothing (your superhero costume and your civilian clothes you were wearing).

If your costume is your armor, I see no reason why activating your Powers (a la OIHID) couldn't instantly change you from your normal ID to your hero ID. If you actually had OIHID, then it would take a full Phase to switch from normal to superhero ID, but if not then it's whatever it normally takes (0 Phase to activate most Powers).

[ghost-angel]

I always saw Instant Change mostly a redundant concept. For the majority of characters simply activating their powers, as Chris Goodwin pointed out, is the "instant change" in and of itself.

For the few who do need it, or those who can morph their clothes or instantly shift their clothes to something else the Transform Instant Change models it nicely. And - does say in the description in 5ER that this would be a good example of "when to break the rules for cool/good effect" and ignore the 1/2 Phase Attack Action aspect.

[Thaingar]

I just have to throw in another vote for grandfathering in the old Instant Change power. I also still use the old Regeneration power in my campaigns.

I have to comment on Nekkidcarpenter's post about Instant Change negating the value of an Only In Hero Identity limitation ... if the character has a secret identity, then the limitation is valid regardless of how long it takes to change into hero identity. On the other hand, if the character does not have a secret identity to maintain, then Instant Change might well negate the value of an Only In Hero Identity limitation.

[Sean Waters]

I wonder how much Body a sset of normal clothes has? The 2d6 transform suggests a need to transform 3 Body, but I doubt whether many 'normal' clothes or even costumes have any more than one (I've just been through and destroyed my entire wardrobbe, and my clonclusion is that once something STARTS tearing it is really no effort at all. you could save some points by making it 1d6. You could save a few more by making it all-or-nothing: presumably you KNOW how much Body the clothes have so that shouldn't be a problem.

As to the question you asked, in the build you created, I would not buy 'no range', I'd by 'self only'. It is the same point total/limitation, but works a little differently. Arguably, self only and 'no range' are not mutually exclusive, but I would look at you askance if you tried it.

The 'double dipping' question may, of course, have come from the 'limtied group' limitation.

Personally that limitation makes no real sense to me, and building this power as a 'general' power makes no sense either - I'd need to know HOW you go about changing the clothes. If it is just a single set of clothes that can change into anything, that indicates one build, whereas if you have the power to influence the shape and colour of cotton, that would be a slightly different one. In either case it would make little sense to limit the power to 'self only'. On the other hand if your change of clothes was part of your shapeshift power and that is just loose skin (yeuch) then it would. mind you, if you had shapeshift then you might not need instant change anyway.

I am not sure that this is a power that is easily built as a general template. Well, it can, but it is probably better not to. Mind you, the same might be said of the old instant change power...

[Hugh Neilson]

I just have to throw in another vote for grandfathering in the old Instant Change power. I also still use the old Regeneration power in my campaigns.

I have to comment on Nekkidcarpenter's post about Instant Change negating the value of an Only In Hero Identity limitation ... if the character has a secret identity, then the limitation is valid regardless of how long it takes to change into hero identity. On the other hand, if the character does not have a secret identity to maintain, then Instant Change might well negate the value of an Only In Hero Identity limitation.

The character already got points for Secret ID. Why should he get more points for not having his powers in Secret ID? That's sometimes an advantage ("Come on, Clark, we're all going to the blood drive!") when trying to maintain a secret ID.

I would not say Instant Change negates the limitation of OIHID, however there must be some restriction to the hero's ability to change into HID. So I would not allow Iron Man to take OIHID for his armor powers, and Instant Change to have the armor materialize around him. His only restriction is time and access to the armor. I would allow Don Blake/Thor to take OIHID and Instant Change - take away the walking stick/hammer, and he can't change/changes back. I would also allow Billy Batson/Captain Marvel to have OIHID and Instant Change - if Billy can't speak, or Cap is somehow tricked or forced to "Tell me the name of the Wizard", OIHID becomes quite restrictive.

[CrosshairCollie]

I use the old Instant Change. There are a few heroes in the campaign I'm in who use powered armor (in the vein of Iron Man and not similar but you get the idea) and have it built in to change to their foci armor instantly. I'm not going into how they do it as that's not my point. One character has a pretty big suit of armor, coming close to 8 feet high or so with a good deal of body, far more than clothes.

You're not supposed to be able to use Instant Change to pop in and out of foci ... did you buy it as Only In Hero ID?

[Tech]

You're not supposed to be able to use Instant Change to pop in and out of foci ... did you buy it as Only In Hero ID?

First, I don't want to get off-topic of JmOz's point. However, to reply to CrosshairCollie, I am curious where in the rules is it stated what you mentioned? I can go into detail as to the justification of allowing the Instant Change and they are good reasons. Again, if 5th ed Revised is quoted, I don't have it.

[CrosshairCollie]

First, I don't want to get off-topic of JmOz's point. However, to reply to CrosshairCollie, I am curious where in the rules is it stated what you mentioned? I can go into detail as to the justification of allowing the Instant Change and they are good reasons. Again, if 5th ed Revised is quoted, I don't have it.

Neither do I.

Simply put, if a character can pop in and out of his OIF Power Armor, eliminating the fact that he's no longer limited by it being a Focus (no time to put on/take off, no risk of being separated from it), it's not worth as big a limitation. Basic foundation of the HERO System; a limitation that doesn't limit isn't a limitation.

[JmOz]

Neither do I.

Simply put, if a character can pop in and out of his OIF Power Armor, eliminating the fact that he's no longer limited by it being a Focus (no time to put on/take off, no risk of being separated from it), it's not worth as big a limitation. Basic foundation of the HERO System; a limitation that doesn't limit isn't a limitation.

However the instant transformation is not in itself proof of the foci not being valid

Ex. A characters who power armor is controled by a bracelet, it ports in when he presses a button on his watch, if the armor is taken away the watch control goes with it, preventing him from transforming until he gets it back, this follows the mandate of the foci limitation

[Trebuchet]

I have some problems with unrestricted Instant Change and OIHID or Focus. There needs to be some balance between the ability to instantly change into Hero ID and the cost savings from OIHID and/or Focus. I suppose the best way is to put Limitations on the Instant Change that require certain conditions to Instant Change; perhaps something requiring the Focus to be nearby. Another option is to halve the value of the OIHID or Focus Limitation.

[GAZZA]

As currently written up in the 5th (I don't have 5th revised), the power Instant Change fails to perform. No mere 2d6 Cosmetic Transform is going to cover the transformation into the big suit, i.e. 12 body rolled is twice 6 body max that can be transformed, when that suit has 18 Body.
See, I'm curious. 18 BODY? Presumably the suit is a Focus of some sort. Foci have DEF, sure, but they don't have BODY. Where do you get the number?

I can see where you'd have BODY if you built it as a Vehicle or something, but if you're using Instant Change to instantly get into your Mecha, then you're using it in a fashion somewhat different to that which was originally intended.

[Tech]

However the instant transformation is not in itself proof of the foci not being valid

Ex. A characters who power armor is controled by a bracelet, it ports in when he presses a button on his watch, if the armor is taken away the watch control goes with it, preventing him from transforming until he gets it back, this follows the mandate of the foci limitation

Exactly. Instant Change doesn't negate the foci limitation but merely allows the hero to change instantly into the armor. The concept of using Instant Change as a viable way to overcome the foci limitation just doesn't happen in our campaign. There are so many cases where the armor has been damaged and/or made useless, as well as putting the hero in even greater danger because of the powered armor that I see no problem in allowing the Instant Change. A foci is still a foci, regardless of how quickly you get to it; it remains the fault or glory of a GM to forget or use that limitation against the player's character. One campaign may not use OIHID because the campaign doesn't allow for such a concept whereas another may require OIHID; it depends on the campaign and the GM to use limitations that have been granted to characters. :thumbup:

GAZZA, the 18 BODY is how much body the powered armor I referenced has. My mistake for not mentioning that. :p

[GAZZA]

GAZZA, the 18 BODY is how much body the powered armor I referenced has. My mistake for not mentioning that. :p
I meant: how did you calculate that it had 18 BODY? Foci normally don't have any BODY, just DEF.

[Oruncrest]

Neither do I.

Simply put, if a character can pop in and out of his OIF Power Armor, eliminating the fact that he's no longer limited by it being a Focus (no time to put on/take off, no risk of being separated from it), it's not worth as big a limitation. Basic foundation of the HERO System; a limitation that doesn't limit isn't a limitation.

However the instant transformation is not in itself proof of the foci not being valid

Ex. A characters who power armor is controled by a bracelet, it ports in when he presses a button on his watch, if the armor is taken away the watch control goes with it, preventing him from transforming until he gets it back, this follows the mandate of the foci limitation

That's because you altered the Instant Change power (giving it the focus and gestures limitations). CC's talking about a straight Instant Change. No Foci. No Gestures. No Incantations. No restrictions. Would you allow a Power Armor focus to be instantly summoned with no restrictions for the same bonus that another Power Armor wearer would get for using the watch you mentioned earlier in your campaign?

[JmOz]

As long as if the armor is taken away from the character he could not use instant change to resummon it, then yes. With the understanding that there is a difference between removing the armor and unsummoning it, if the armor was unsummened then he could resummon it, if it was removed then no.

[ghost-angel]

Focus: bracers that, when activated, expand and cover the wearer in powered armor.

Instant Change: Activating the Bracers.

Extraneous Concept: Instant Change, activating the bracers should not require a second power.

--
Focus: Armor sitting in a transporter, waiting for the button on our hero's wristwatch to be pressed, thereby summoning it around him.

Instant Change: summoning the armor by pressing the button on the wristwatch.

Extraneous Concept: Instant Change. A second power should not be required to activate another power.

----
Instant Change and Focus aren't so much mutually exclusive as completely redundant.

I always thought the "Instant Change" Power was completely unnecessary.
Activating your armor, Saying the Power Word, shapeshifting into BeastGuy, activating your Fire Powers....

All these have the Instant Change concept built right into them. Turning your powers on is all that's needed. They might or might not use "Focus," "Only In Hero ID," "Multiform," "ShapeShift," etc...

Now, your powers are always active, you don't need to do anything to use them. But if you want to look cool you gotta jump into that phone booth and switch from the business suit to the Superman threads...

Well, you know - Instant Change fits the bill there. You're "instantly changing from one costume to another" (or one set of clothes to another).

Transform: These Clothes Into Those Clothes.
Technically, by the rules of Transform that's a 1/2 Phase Attack Action to "Attack your own clothes" (not you, so you're not breaking the can't use Transform on yourself rule, your clothes).
Seems silly don't it.

Meh, as long as it's just the clothes your wearing, call it a 0-Phase Action and be done with it.

Does ANYONE follow all the rules to the letter? Even Steve Long doesn't do that. There's nothing to fix. just play.

[PhilFleischmann]

I think some people are focusing on the wrong area here. Instant Change (and OIHID) exist because of a *genre convention* in comic book superhero-type fiction. They exist practially nowhere else. They really shouldn't have ever been included in FREd or 5ER, but in Champions.

Captain Kirk, Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Gandalf, Conan, Bruce Lee, ... none of them have to change into a different costume/form/identity in order to deal with a crisis situation that comes up. Many (perhaps most) superheroes do.

Some superheroes can do so easily. Some have secred IDs to protect and need to find some privacy to change clothes. Some can change instantly, but still have to protect the secret ID. Some don't have to protect a secret ID, but it might take them a while to get into the armor.

These kinds of issues can (if the GM wants) matter in the game, and therefore should be reflected with point costs. By standard rules in Champions, or to be more precise, a genre convention, it takes a bit of time to switch costumes/forms/identities. A character who doesn't have to take this time, should have to pay more than a character that does. By the standard rules, the character buys Instant Change. Another way to handle it, would be to give the guy who does have to take time, a Disadvantage.

Tony Krats has no powers at all when he's not in his armor (OIHID), and it takes him a while to put it on (No Instant Change), and he also has a Secret ID, so he can't put on the armor in full view of his fellow hi-tech millionaire friends.
Dan Bloke has no powers when not in Divine Screwdriver form (OIHID), but all he has to do is tap his walking stick on the ground and he changes form (Instant Change), and the stick turns into his mystic screwdriver, Mcraftsmir, but he has a secret ID so he can't just do this anywhere.
Pete Park has full access to his amazing SquirrelMan powers all the time (No OIHID), but he has a secret ID to protect, and it takes a little time to change out of his regular clothes and put on his squirrel-suit (No Instant Change).
And so forth.

[Comic]

The old convention for calculating the DEF and BODY of foci were: 1 DEF per 5 AP, 1 BODY per 10 AP, unless the focus itself provided more DEF or BODY through one of its powers (eg Armor, FF, Growth, or just plain buying BODY as a characteristic with the focus limitation).

Too warm here at the moment to trouble looking for the current rules.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

Now, your powers are always active, you don't need to do anything to use them. But if you want to look cool you gotta jump into that phone booth and switch from the business suit to the Superman threads...



My only quibble with G-A here is his assertion that somewhere, somehow, it's possible to look cool dropping trou in a phone booth.

Maybe Elisha Cuthbert changing into Supergirl. Maybe.

[Tech]

I think some people are focusing on the wrong area here. Instant Change (and OIHID) exist because of a *genre convention* in comic book superhero-type fiction. They exist practially nowhere else. They really shouldn't have ever been included in FREd or 5ER, but in Champions.

Captain Kirk, Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Gandalf, Conan, Bruce Lee, ... none of them have to change into a different costume/form/identity in order to deal with a crisis situation that comes up. Many (perhaps most) superheroes do.

Some superheroes can do so easily. Some have secred IDs to protect and need to find some privacy to change clothes. Some can change instantly, but still have to protect the secret ID. Some don't have to protect a secret ID, but it might take them a while to get into the armor.

These kinds of issues can (if the GM wants) matter in the game, and therefore should be reflected with point costs. By standard rules in Champions, or to be more precise, a genre convention, it takes a bit of time to switch costumes/forms/identities. A character who doesn't have to take this time, should have to pay more than a character that does. By the standard rules, the character buys Instant Change. Another way to handle it, would be to give the guy who does have to take time, a Disadvantage.

Tony Krats has no powers at all when he's not in his armor (OIHID), and it takes him a while to put it on (No Instant Change), and he also has a Secret ID, so he can't put on the armor in full view of his fellow hi-tech millionaire friends.
Dan Bloke has no powers when not in Divine Screwdriver form (OIHID), but all he has to do is tap his walking stick on the ground and he changes form (Instant Change), and the stick turns into his mystic screwdriver, Mcraftsmir, but he has a secret ID so he can't just do this anywhere.
Pete Park has full access to his amazing SquirrelMan powers all the time (No OIHID), but he has a secret ID to protect, and it takes a little time to change out of his regular clothes and put on his squirrel-suit (No Instant Change).
And so forth.

I notice you mentioned the armor concept as being OIHID, which is fine for some and not others. If it's OIHID, none of the powers can be attacked, damaged or whatnot, grabbed away, etc etc that a foci can run into. A foci powered armor (OIF, not OIHID) can be targeted & attacked and even destroyed without injuring the inside user, whereas lethal attacks on on a OIHID armor character will leave the character dead, instead of merely having the armor destroyed. It is for this that we use foci powered armor in our campaign for the heroes. This gets off the point of Instant Change to an extent.

There is nothing wrong with having someone who uses foci powered armor to use Instant Change to instantly have the armor around him. Secret Identities are the norm in the campaign I'm in so it's a problem like anyone else. As it is a foci powered armor, it is subject to specialized attacks, it can be rendered useless while the inside character is helpless, it can be destroyed leaving the character without use of his foci and so on.

[PhilFleischmann]

I notice you mentioned the armor concept as being OIHID, which is fine for some and not others. ....

There is nothing wrong with having someone who uses foci powered armor to use Instant Change to instantly have the armor around him. ....
Of course. I was just using those particular builds as examples. The point was to illustrait how these differences make a real difference in play. In superhero settings, it is very common, if not universal, that characters will have some difficulty changing from Joe Average into Amazing Man. There are (at least) three different difficulties they may encounter:

1. They need to change identities without revealing to others that Joe Average and Amazing Man are one and the same.
2. It takes some inconvenient amount of time to change identities.
3. Joe has no access to his Amazing powers while in Joe form.

To keep the system fair, characters that have to deal with these difficulties should pay less than characters that don't.

As the current rules stand, if you have to deal with difficulty #1, you get a Disadvantage called Secret ID. If you don't have to deal with #1, you don't get that disad.

If you don't have to deal with difficulty #2, you pay for a power called Instant Change. If you do have to deal with #2, you don't buy this power. (All right folks, no snickering about "number two"!)

If difficulty #3 is a problem for you, you take a Limitation on your powers called "Only in Hero ID" (or Focus, if you prefer). If #3 is not a problem you have to deal with, then you don't take that limitation.

Each of these three difficulties is independent of the other two. I'll bet an astute comic-book geek could list examples of all eight possible combinations.

Reed Richards doesn't have any of these difficulties.
Iron Man (during some parts of his career) had to deal with all three.
Thor (in his early days) had 1 and 3, but not 2.
Spider Man has 1 and 2, but not 3.
Flash (IIRC) usually has 1 only, but not 2 or 3.

And we might reasonably disagree about how much each of these difficulties (or the "privilege" of avoiding them) is "worth." And also, some GMs may run campaigns in which one or more of them will be irrelevent and therefore, not worth anything as a Disad, a Lim, or a Power. For example a GM might decide that he never wants to run any secret ID crises, in which case secret ID shouldn't be allowed as a disad (or is worth no points). Or he might want to run such scenarios all the time, in which case the disad would be worth more than normal.

[ghost-angel]

If you don't have to deal with difficulty #2, you pay for a power called Instant Change. If you do have to deal with #2, you don't buy this power. (All right folks, no snickering about "number two"!)

I only disagree with this point, in many cases:

If you don't have to deal with difficulties of getting access to your powers (no time involved) you can do nothing.

If you do have difficulty you have Extra Time (and it's brother Extra Time Only To Activate), OIHID (which requires a Full Phase), or similar.

[PhilFleischmann]

I only disagree with this point, in many cases:

If you don't have to deal with difficulties of getting access to your powers (no time involved) you can do nothing.

If you do have difficulty you have Extra Time (and it's brother Extra Time Only To Activate), OIHID (which requires a Full Phase), or similar.
But what if you already have full access to your powers, but you just can't instantly change into your super-suit? There's no Extra Time or OIHID on your powers themselves.

[ghost-angel]

But what if you already have full access to your powers, but you just can't instantly change into your super-suit? There's no Extra Time or OIHID on your powers themselves.

No, I agree to an extent - you need Instant Change to change your costume instantly. I just don't think it's a requirement in even most cases, just some cases.

[Chris Goodwin]

Just something I don't think anybody's thought about (I didn't until just now). Most of the time, characters on patrol aren't in combat time. How often does a character need to switch in combat? In most of the source material, the hero is moseying along in his secret identity, and the crime happens or whatever, the hero changes, and suddenly it seems like it's segment 12.

Also, I know the game specifies that it takes a full Phase to change clothes, but it's also a trope of the superheroic genre that the character is wearing his supersuit under his civilian clothes. Whoosh and he's changed!

Just a couple of things to think about.

[Zorak1003]

Let's face it, it was dumb to change the power. Nothing wrong at all with an arbitrary 5 points or so for certain characters to be able to zap inot their super hero costumes. It has no effect on combat, and could easily be a given for certain characters, anyway- The Flash comes to mind, or anypne else with super speed.

I'd say grandfater it in, use a custom power in Hero Designer, and thumb your nose at anyone who doesn't like it.

[Force]

Let's face it, it was dumb to change the power. Nothing wrong at all with an arbitrary 5 points or so for certain characters to be able to zap inot their super hero costumes. It has no effect on combat, and could easily be a given for certain characters, anyway- The Flash comes to mind, or anypne else with super speed.

I'd say grandfater it in, use a custom power in Hero Designer, and thumb your nose at anyone who doesn't like it.

QFT

[Hugh Neilson]

Also, I know the game specifies that it takes a full Phase to change clothes, but it's also a trope of the superheroic genre that the character is wearing his supersuit under his civilian clothes. Whoosh and he's changed!

How long does it take you to change clothes? 1 phase seems to emulate the genre trope quite well.

[Chris Goodwin]

How long does it take you to change clothes? 1 phase seems to emulate the genre trope quite well.

Outside of combat, an indeterminate amount of time which may as well be instantaneous.

[Hugh Neilson]

Outside of combat, an indeterminate amount of time which may as well be instantaneous.

Most Supers also change out of combat. Let me posit an "out of combat" example where the indeterminate amoint of time being instantaneous or some other measure is important. The "character" is in the basement family room with his wife's best friend. Their clothes are scattered about the room. He has just heard that fifth stair creak, as his wife arrived home unexpectedly early and is on her way downstairs to get some food out of the freezer. Is that indeterminate amount of time it will take them to get dressed a period that "might as well be instantaneous"?

[PhilFleischmann]

No, I agree to an extent - you need Instant Change to change your costume instantly. I just don't think it's a requirement in even most cases, just some cases.
True. In fact, upon further reflection, I may be slightly incorrect about the independence of those three problems. If you have no secret ID to protect, and you have full access to your powers all the time, it makes very little difference if it takes time to chance out of your civilian clothes.

So if you don't have to deal with either #1 or #3, then #2 really doesn't matter almost ever. There's nothing to stop you doing your hero stuff in your everyday clothes.

Off hand, I can only think of two areas where it might matter:
1. You don't want to mess up the regular clothes you're wearing. Joe Average is getting married today, and is already in his tuxedo when the bad guy strikes. He's not getting his deposit back. - Plot device at best.
2. PRE Attacks may be impaired if you're just wearing normal clothes. - This may have an in-game effect.

And for Chris Goodwin:
That full phase to change clothes can make a big difference. How many civilians can be killed by the bad guy in that time? How far away might he get from the scene of the crime? etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

2. PRE Attacks may be impaired if you're just wearing normal clothes. - This may have an in-game effect.

This implies some PRE is purchased with the focus "Costume". I'd say it's a non-issue for most characters. It could make it harder to recognize the hero, and thus have his reputation apply, I suppose.

[ghost-angel]

This implies some PRE is purchased with the focus "Costume". I'd say it's a non-issue for most characters. It could make it harder to recognize the hero, and thus have his reputation apply, I suppose.

Or you have a Reputation. Good Rep adds directly to PRE Attacks, Bad Rep may or may not depending on the situation. Outside of cosutme that Rep as "Beam Boy" may not apply if they can't recognize you as Beam Boy instead of Some Guy Shooting Beams At Me.

[PhilFleischmann]

This implies some PRE is purchased with the focus "Costume". I'd say it's a non-issue for most characters. It could make it harder to recognize the hero, and thus have his reputation apply, I suppose.
Hmmm... I'd tend to call that "double dipping". A PRE attack assumes as a starting point "normal" circumstances. A superhero gets a base PRE attack based on his PRE/5. That already assumes he's wearing his costume, because that's the normal circumstance for a superhero's presence attack. If circumstances are unfavorable, the dice he gets are reduced. Not wearing his presumably impressive costume would be an unfavorable circumstance. Clark Kent dressed as a mild-mannered reporter is not as impressive as the big red S and cape.

[Hugh Neilson]

Hmmm... I'd tend to call that "double dipping". A PRE attack assumes as a starting point "normal" circumstances. A superhero gets a base PRE attack based on his PRE/5. That already assumes he's wearing his costume, because that's the normal circumstance for a superhero's presence attack. If circumstances are unfavorable, the dice he gets are reduced. Not wearing his presumably impressive costume would be an unfavorable circumstance. Clark Kent dressed as a mild-mannered reporter is not as impressive as the big red S and cape.

A Champions game includes normals and people in costume. Is a 20 PRE non-Super (ie who has no costume) more impressive in suit and tie than a 20 PRE Superhero? Would that non-Super get a bonus to his PRE when dressed up as a Super?

What if my character is very charming? Do his PRE skills drop when he's not in costume? His DNPC reporter's PRE skills don't drop - would they be enhanced if we gave him a costume?

To me, two characters who paid the same points for the same stat ought to get the same benefits.

[Vondy]

Talent. Flat Cost. 5 Points.

I admit it - I have atavistic hero tendencies.

[PhilFleischmann]

A Champions game includes normals and people in costume. Is a 20 PRE non-Super (ie who has no costume) more impressive in suit and tie than a 20 PRE Superhero? Would that non-Super get a bonus to his PRE when dressed up as a Super?
No. Because it wouldn't be the normal circumstance for the normal.


What if my character is very charming? Do his PRE skills drop when he's not in costume? His DNPC reporter's PRE skills don't drop - would they be enhanced if we gave him a costume?
No and no.


To me, two characters who paid the same points for the same stat ought to get the same benefits.
They do. They both get the starting point for a PRE Attack that they paid for. This starting point is then modified for circumstances, like always.

[ghost-angel]

I think what Phil is saying is that your PRE doesn't go down when out of costume - but the type of PRE Attack you perform changes.

Guy In A Business Suit, no matter how impressive, may not make Destructor The Mangler stop what he's doing, he may pause and go "huh, impressive little man aren't you? Now I shall squish you."

Superman on the other hand might make Destructor The Mangler not only pause, but go "Oh, hi Superman, I was just helping this bus across the street. Don't mind me."

[Hugh Neilson]

No. Because it wouldn't be the normal circumstance for the normal.
************************************************** ********
They do. They both get the starting point for a PRE Attack that they paid for. This starting point is then modified for circumstances, like always.

Let's take two characters. The first has a 20 PRE. By your logic, he has 20 PRE when in his SuperSuit (his "default ID") and some lesser amount, because of diminished circumstances, in his Secret ID.

The second has 15 PRE, +5 OIHID. When he's in his SuperSuit, he has 20 PRE, since that's HID. What happens when he isn't in his SuperSuit? He has 15 PRE. That's his natural state, since he needs to adopt a separate state to be a Super.

Character 2 paid 1 point less to be exactly the same as Character 1 if I follow your approach, since Character 1 loses effective PRE when he's not in hero ID, even though he got no Limitation for that limitation.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

I think what Phil is saying is that your PRE doesn't go down when out of costume - but the type of PRE Attack you perform changes.

Guy In A Business Suit, no matter how impressive, may not make Destructor The Mangler stop what he's doing, he may pause and go "huh, impressive little man aren't you? Now I shall squish you."

Superman on the other hand might make Destructor The Mangler not only pause, but go "Oh, hi Superman, I was just helping this bus across the street. Don't mind me."


Well, Dracula's just a guy in a tux. And Dirty Harry always seemed pretty impressive in his suit too.



Yes, if you have multiple ID's then you might not get the benefit of a reputation(if you have one) in your secret ID, but if you've spent 30 points on Pre then people will stop to listen to you. Presence and Strength cost the same, and 40 Pre has the same relationship to a normal persons Pre that 40 Str does to that guys Str. Now, Destructor might not be impressed overly much by it anymore than he's impressed by 40 Str, but he also might. He might be less impressed by a guy in spandex than a guy in a muscle tee; there's no hard and fast rule.


I'm aware that everyone knows that. About the hard and fast thing, I mean.

[PhilFleischmann]

Let's take two characters. The first has a 20 PRE. By your logic, he has 20 PRE when in his SuperSuit (his "default ID") and some lesser amount, because of diminished circumstances, in his Secret ID.
Not at all. I never said it, and I never implied it. He has 20 PRE, all the time. When he makes a Presence Attack, he starts with a base of 4d6. If the circumstances of this presence attack are such that it would be less impressive to not be in his superhero regalia, then he might receive a penalty, such as -1d6. Hence my original statement:

"2. PRE Attacks may be impaired if you're just wearing normal clothes. - This may have an in-game effect."


The second has 15 PRE, +5 OIHID. When he's in his SuperSuit, he has 20 PRE, since that's HID. What happens when he isn't in his SuperSuit? He has 15 PRE. That's his natural state, since he needs to adopt a separate state to be a Super.

Character 2 paid 1 point less to be exactly the same as Character 1 if I follow your approach, since Character 1 loses effective PRE when he's not in hero ID, even though he got no Limitation for that limitation.
But they're not exactly the same. Character 2 (for reasons yet to be explained) becomes less skilled with his interaction skills when he's not wearing his supersuit. He becomes a worse actor, worse conversationalist, etc. Character 1 does not lose any PRE, under any circumstances. Both are subject to circumstance modifiers when they try to perform interaction skills and when they attempt PRE attacks.

If you see Superiorman flying over the crowd telling them to proceed quickly and calmly out of the area for your own safety, you're likely to obey, thinking, "Oh! Superiorman is here! That's a relief! I feel reassured. I'll do what he says and things will be OK."

But if you see Mark Ment flying over the crowd in his suit and tie, telling you what to do, you're likely to think, "Oh, no! Suddenly, in the midst of this crisis, there's a flying man! What's going on? Has the world gone mad?"

[Force]

Talent. Flat Cost. 5 Points.

I admit it - I have atavistic hero tendencies.

True.

Also, you don't fix something that's not broken until it is broken.

K.I.S.S.

[Hugh Neilson]

If you see Superiorman flying over the crowd telling them to proceed quickly and calmly out of the area for your own safety, you're likely to obey, thinking, "Oh! Superiorman is here! That's a relief! I feel reassured. I'll do what he says and things will be OK."

But if you see Mark Ment flying over the crowd in his suit and tie, telling you what to do, you're likely to think, "Oh, no! Suddenly, in the midst of this crisis, there's a flying man! What's going on? Has the world gone mad?"

Based on your quotes, I recognize SuperiorMan, and am comforted by his being here. That sopunds more like Superiorman's reputation then his presence. Obviously, if I don't know it's Superiorman, his reputation won't give me any comfort. But he may still have the presence to calm the crowd, even if they don't know who he is.

[ghost-angel]

Another aspect - withoo or without a Reputation, is situational modifiers.

The GM may impose a -2D6 on your PRE Attack when in your civilian clothes since "normals" are not a threat to others (especially if we're talking the Supers genre). This may have the advantage in a Phase or so of granting a Surprise Bonus when the aforementioned "civillian" clobbers the heck out of the bad guy.

[Hugh Neilson]

The GM may impose a -2D6 on your PRE Attack when in your civilian clothes since "normals" are not a threat to others (especially if we're talking the Supers genre). This may have the advantage in a Phase or so of granting a Surprise Bonus when the aforementioned "civillian" clobbers the heck out of the bad guy.

I can see this as a genre bit, but it should also mean that all normals in civilian clothes take -2d6 to their PRE attacks. That makes those "intimidating civilians" pretty unintimidating unless they buy their PRE up beyond normal human NCM levels. Perhaps a better genre emulation would give costumed characters +2d6 PRE attacks from a generic "all Supers are powerful and dangerous to normals" reputation. But then, any normal putting on a costume can frighten the normals.

And we're then back to this being +10 PRE, offensive only, OIF Super Costume.

[PhilFleischmann]

Based on your quotes, I recognize SuperiorMan, and am comforted by his being here. That sopunds more like Superiorman's reputation then his presence. Obviously, if I don't know it's Superiorman, his reputation won't give me any comfort. But he may still have the presence to calm the crowd, even if they don't know who he is.
And with or without a Reputation, a normal guy dressed in normal clothes whom you don't recognize is also not going to give you any comfort.


I can see this as a genre bit, but it should also mean that all normals in civilian clothes take -2d6 to their PRE attacks.
Not all presence attacks are the same. It depends on what they're trying to do with the Presence Attack. Again, circumstances.

James Bond in a tailored suit is going to be more impressive than James Bond in a wife beater with ketchup stains and fuzzy slippers.

Batman is scarier in his batsuit than Bruce Wayne in business attire.

A cop in uniform commands more respect than the same person in shorts and a t-shirt on his day off.

This type of circumstance applies to just about everyone (especially superheroes in the superhero genre) and so in general I wouldn't allow a player to buy PRE OIHID or through a Focus, just to reflect this fairly standard situation.

[ghost-angel]

I can see this as a genre bit, but it should also mean that all normals in civilian clothes take -2d6 to their PRE attacks. That makes those "intimidating civilians" pretty unintimidating unless they buy their PRE up beyond normal human NCM levels. Perhaps a better genre emulation would give costumed characters +2d6 PRE attacks from a generic "all Supers are powerful and dangerous to normals" reputation. But then, any normal putting on a costume can frighten the normals.

And we're then back to this being +10 PRE, offensive only, OIF Super Costume.

Yes and no.

Normals vs Supers I would almost always give a negative PRE Attack Modifier.
Most Normals wouldn't even try and make a PRE Attack against a Supervillain either...

I would probably give a Superhero/villain vs Normals a positive PRE Attack modifier to represent Normals possibly already being afraid (or politely respectful) of Superpowers.

Other situational modifiers may apply as well to compound or negate any other situational modifiers. Or, the GM may feel a certain situation doesn't warrant any modifiers.

PRE Attacks should always be taken on a case by case basis. But I would be inclined to say that someone dressed as a Normal trying to make a PRE Attack to someone who is an obvious Supervillain (and most importantly that Supervillain KNOWS they're capable of superpowered feats) a negative modifier. After all, the Supervillain won't think that Normal is much of a threat and treat him accordingly - hence a negative Modifier; The other route is to require a greater than normal Effect, EGO+20 instead of EGO to make the Supervillain pause for a moment (Phase).

[Hugh Neilson]

Yes and no.

Normals vs Supers I would almost always give a negative PRE Attack Modifier.
Most Normals wouldn't even try and make a PRE Attack against a Supervillain either...

I would probably give a Superhero/villain vs Normals a positive PRE Attack modifier to represent Normals possibly already being afraid (or politely respectful) of Superpowers.

First off, this is a positive modifier for wearing a SuperSuit, not a negative one for not wearing a SuperSuit.

Would you give the same modifier to Alfred Pennyworth in a spare Batsuit if the target of the PRE attack doesn't know it's not the real Batman? What about a non-Super in a more generic SuperSuit - looks like a Super, but not one the target recognizes? If the answer is "yes", it sure seems like that extra PRE attack is a function of the suit - a focus - rather than the wearer.

Does Superman get a BONUS when he's in the suit, or a PENALTY when he isn't?

Should a Super making a PRE attack against another Super also get a bonus for "obviously" being a Super, because he's in costume, or a penalty when out of costume?

Does the Super's bonus go up if he exhibits a superpower, or does this "in costume" bonus supersede that, since it's giving a bonus for the target assuming the wearer has superpowers? It sounds to me that this is better viewed as the standard +1d6 for "exhibiting a superpower" modified to "target believes the PRE attacker has a superpower".


PRE Attacks should always be taken on a case by case basis. But I would be inclined to say that someone dressed as a Normal trying to make a PRE Attack to someone who is an obvious Supervillain (and most importantly that Supervillain KNOWS they're capable of superpowered feats) a negative modifier. After all, the Supervillain won't think that Normal is much of a threat and treat him accordingly - hence a negative Modifier; The other route is to require a greater than normal Effect, EGO+20 instead of EGO to make the Supervillain pause for a moment (Phase).

So a 10 PRE Super will not be impressed by a 30 PRE normal (or Super who just looks normal)? Is that a reasonable result? If the Normal isn't going to get the full benefits of his PRE - EVER - why doesn't he get a reduced cost for that PRE? He's paid the points to be more impressive than the norm - whether or not he wears a costume.

And are all Super costumes equal? Ignoring issues of reputation, will the BatSuit and the Captain Ultra (aka Captain Colorblind) suit achieve equal bonuses (or penalty reductions)?

I agree that PRE Attacks should always be taken on a case by case basis. I don't agree that the guy who wears his underwear on the outside should get an automatic advantage.

[ghost-angel]

First off, this is a positive modifier for wearing a SuperSuit, not a negative one for not wearing a SuperSuit.

Would you give the same modifier to Alfred Pennyworth in a spare Batsuit if the target of the PRE attack doesn't know it's not the real Batman? What about a non-Super in a more generic SuperSuit - looks like a Super, but not one the target recognizes? If the answer is "yes", it sure seems like that extra PRE attack is a function of the suit - a focus - rather than the wearer.

Does Superman get a BONUS when he's in the suit, or a PENALTY when he isn't?

Should a Super making a PRE attack against another Super also get a bonus for "obviously" being a Super, because he's in costume, or a penalty when out of costume?

Does the Super's bonus go up if he exhibits a superpower, or does this "in costume" bonus supersede that, since it's giving a bonus for the target assuming the wearer has superpowers? It sounds to me that this is better viewed as the standard +1d6 for "exhibiting a superpower" modified to "target believes the PRE attacker has a superpower".



So a 10 PRE Super will not be impressed by a 30 PRE normal (or Super who just looks normal)? Is that a reasonable result? If the Normal isn't going to get the full benefits of his PRE - EVER - why doesn't he get a reduced cost for that PRE? He's paid the points to be more impressive than the norm - whether or not he wears a costume.

And are all Super costumes equal? Ignoring issues of reputation, will the BatSuit and the Captain Ultra (aka Captain Colorblind) suit achieve equal bonuses (or penalty reductions)?

I agree that PRE Attacks should always be taken on a case by case basis. I don't agree that the guy who wears his underwear on the outside should get an automatic advantage.

I didn't say the Normal would never get his standard PRE ever did I? No.

I was talking the obvious Normal vs the obvious Super. That's a specific situation. So the standard is +1D6 if the Super is attacking the Normal with PRE.

OK, so the Normal should get a -1D6 for attacking the Super with PRE by that logic? no? (I used 2D as an example, not a hard rule).

Super vs Super is two, roughly, equals. No PRE adjustment either way.
Normal vs Normal is the same - no PRE adjustment.

It's when you get to vastly different levels of powers/capability. Why would a Normal be impressive to a Super who knows he can remove the Normal as a minor speed bump? Why would the Normals PRE be at full effectiveness vs a Super? It wouldn't, hence a situational modifier.

I don't think I've ever made a PRE Attack that wasn't adjusted in some manner by situational modifiers.

[Hugh Neilson]

I was talking the obvious Normal vs the obvious Super. That's a specific situation. So the standard is +1D6 if the Super is attacking the Normal with PRE.

Key word added. What makes it obvious the Super is truly super, rather than just some guy in a halloween costume? I would say exhibiting actual superpowers - which is already a PRE modifier. But it applies against both normals and Supers. PRE is the base, before any situational modifiers. If two characters have equal PRE, they should have equal chances to impress one another.

That tough as nails Normal reporter, newspaper publisher or soldier may have the same 20 PRE as that novice Super. Absent any adjustments, they should each get a 4d6 PRE attack against the other. Not likely to have an impact, but not impossible either.

Add modifiers - our Super firing off a flame blast, for example, and the picture changes. But FlameBoy's base 20 PRE applies whether he is in costume - and intimidates the normal with his flamebolt - or is in civilian attire. He does, however, lack the ability to intimidate the normal with his Flameboy unless he wants to jeopardize his secret ID, but he still has exactly the same 20 PRE.


Super vs Super is two, roughly, equals. No PRE adjustment either way. Normal vs Normal is the same - no PRE adjustment.

By the book, they both use their PRE. NOw we go to situational modifiers. Has either of them used a superpower? if both have, their PRE attacks go up due to situational modifiers. But if it's That Guy in the Red Suit and That Other Guy in the Green Suit, neither has any special reason to be intimidated by the other.


It's when you get to vastly different levels of powers/capability. Why would a Normal be impressive to a Super who knows he can remove the Normal as a minor speed bump? Why would the Normals PRE be at full effectiveness vs a Super? It wouldn't, hence a situational modifier.

Why wouldn't it? If the normal is "clearly at a disadvantage" (which he is if the Super believes this guy is just a normal), there's your situational modifier. But shouldn't that modifier be based on belief? Does the Super with 20 points of Overconfidence believe he is a disadvantage when faced down with three Super opponents? In other words, does that vast Overconfidence carry extra defensive PRE with it? Realistically, if he's so overconfident he doesn't perceive these guys as a threat, they should have a tougher time intimidating him, shouldn't they?

[ghost-angel]

Why wouldn't it? If the normal is "clearly at a disadvantage" (which he is if the Super believes this guy is just a normal), there's your situational modifier. But shouldn't that modifier be based on belief? Does the Super with 20 points of Overconfidence believe he is a disadvantage when faced down with three Super opponents? In other words, does that vast Overconfidence carry extra defensive PRE with it? Realistically, if he's so overconfident he doesn't perceive these guys as a threat, they should have a tougher time intimidating him, shouldn't they?

On Their PRE Attack vs His Overconfidence - they would get no bonus. In fact, they may need to achieve an additional +10 on the Effect depending on the nature of the Attack (initimidation, fear, etc).

But on His Attack vs Them - they see it as 3 to 1 - his Overconfidence has no effect on their perception, he might get a -1D6 as one of the modifiers in play.

The Modifiers on a PRE Attack should be based on the Targets Perception of the Attacker; not the Attackers perception on the Target.

And yes - I will concede the word "obvious" should have been used by me from the start in my examples just to make things clear. And by "obvious" I mean if he appears normal in all ways (even if he us Ultraman in a business suit) and the Obvious Super has no reason to believe he is more than a posturing normal (Brave, but stupid) he will treat him accordingly - and Ultraman In A Business Suit gets a negative modifier to represent that.

[Sean Waters]

True.

Also, you don't fix something that's not broken until it is broken.

K.I.S.S.

Something needs breaking? No problem.

K.I.C.K.*



*Keep It Complicated, Kleptomaniac.

[Hugh Neilson]

On Their PRE Attack vs His Overconfidence - they would get no bonus. In fact, they may need to achieve an additional +10 on the Effect depending on the nature of the Attack (initimidation, fear, etc).

But on His Attack vs Them - they see it as 3 to 1 - his Overconfidence has no effect on their perception, he might get a -1D6 as one of the modifiers in play.

The Modifiers on a PRE Attack should be based on the Targets Perception of the Attacker; not the Attackers perception on the Target.

Here we agree. Of course, this means Overconfidence is a very effective means of obtaining defensive PRE for free.


And yes - I will concede the word "obvious" should have been used by me from the start in my examples just to make things clear. And by "obvious" I mean if he appears normal in all ways (even if he us Ultraman in a business suit) and the Obvious Super has no reason to believe he is more than a posturing normal (Brave, but stupid) he will treat him accordingly - and Ultraman In A Business Suit gets a negative modifier to represent that.

This comes down to how obvious is obvious. Does anyone in a SuperSuit get an automatic bonus, and anyone not in a SuperSuit get an automatic penalty, or does the guy in the SuperSuit have to be recognizable as a specific Super or demonstrate he has superpowers before he gets the bonus?

Just as the Super has no reason to believe the guy in a business suit is anything but a posturing normal, does he have reason to believe the guy with his underwear on the outside is a credible threat before this unrecognized person demonstrates any real combat ability?

Finally, I would not hold the Normal to receive a penalty simply based on what he's wearing. He might get a penalty based on the fact he does not apppear to be a credible threat, just as that guy in the SuperSuit might get a bonus if it misleads the target into believing he has superpowers. But I don't see him getting a penalty because he's wearing different clothes. If I take that position, then I need to look at whose SuperSuit is more or less intimidating, and start assigning PRE bonuses and penalties based on how impressive your SFX are as well.

[ghost-angel]

Here we agree. Of course, this means Overconfidence is a very effective means of obtaining defensive PRE for free.

Only vs Fear and Intimidation PRE Attacks.

Of course, there are plenty of other ways to get an Overconfidence sufferer to do various stupid things.

[Mr_Yuck]

I use the new Transform power for Instant Change.

I like the way it is written for the most part, though based off of my reading here, I think I will impose a limitation Self Only (-1/2).

This may keep my more unscrupulous players from transforming Villain X's Costume of Dread into Villain X's Tutu of Hilarity. :eek:

I do like that it is a half phase action as well. We have a prevelance of powered armor types that my players like to create. This makes them take a half-phase to get into their super duds AND costs them a bit of their precious END.

As was already stated tho... Very rarely are the heroes 'out of uniform'. Sometimes I will engineer a scenario just to catch them in their 'civies'... but most often, things happen with the team already geared up. For example, the team is going to a location to investigate a disturbance and are already in costume or change en-route in the team vehicle.