Make Love, not Warcraft

[Michael Hopcroft]

Imagine you were going to run Fantasy HERO in a World of Warcraft or other MORPG-inspired setting (there actually is a licensed tabletop RPG for it, so trying to run it in HERO isn't that much of a mental stretch). I was running around in it a bit lately and noticed there didn't seem to be a lot of people around who weren't actively engaged in adventuring -- which wouldn't be the case in a real fantasy world.

The people of Azaroth don't seem to realize that the ancient feud between Horde and Alliance is only getting in the way of the REAL threats to their world -- and also a bloody nuisance in terms of getting on with their actual lives. So I was wondering whether there was any campaign potential in the idea of a set of people trying to somehow find a way to patch things up so that men, orcs and everybody else could share the world without going into genocidal rages at the sight of each other.

(I also find myself wonder how a planet peopled entirely by hunks and babes doesn't have more sex and romance going on, but that's another question.....)

[L. Marcus]

Ah, but for them, hunks and babes are the default, so they only get hot over really hunky hunks and babey babes.

[Lord Fyre]

(I also find myself wonder how a planet peopled entirely by hunks and babes doesn't have more sex and romance going on, but that's another question.....)

Because then it would be Lovecraft, and that would just be too insane. :eek:

[Blue Jogger]

So I was wondering whether there was any campaign potential in the idea of a set of people trying to somehow find a way to patch things up so that men, orcs and everybody else could share the world without going into genocidal rages at the sight of each other.

The short answer is.... no. What, you want to me to explain? Ok. There are two ways to look at orcs...

1) One way is to think of them as non-human. For instance, my orcs reach physical maturity at roughly 9, have a shorter lifespan (roughly half of a human) and often give birth to twins and triplets. And while there are just as smart as a normal human (8 INT), they are usually innumerate and illiterate due to the lack of sophistication in the Orcish language. This makes them very short sighted and, given population pressure, a tendency towards raiding and piliaging. You can make peace with these types of orcs, but they aren't going to stay peaceful unless they have a bigger threat (then you) to fight against.

2) The second way is to say they are human, albeit more physical. And to make them a proud noble warrior race. Now, there is nothing wrong with that, but if you're not careful, you just have body builders painted green with overgrown canines. I think Warcraft went this route. Don't get me wrong, I love these types of orcs too, but it's too much like a "special effect" rather than a unique humanoid race.

[Twilight]

Actually I think you're overthinking it there Blue Jogger, no offence.

While a World of Warcraft PC might be aware of the big picture, the average Joe in the Warcraft world likely does not. To the average person in the Alliance the Orcs are invaders who tried to wipe out thier nation and probably killed more then one of thier friends and relatives. Add to that the fact that there are non-Horde aligned orcs running around pillaging and rampaging like in the old days and one can see why orcs have an image problem in Alliance territory.

Trolls have it even worse as the ones aligned with the Horde are in the distinct minority, and the rest of the species are by and large cannibalistic, involved in the darkest of voodoo practises and well known for attacking any non-troll they encounter.

Then of course there's the fact that they're allied with the Forsaken. To the average Joe, the undead are the undead. It doesn't matter if they claim they're free willed and opposing the Lich King, for most people they're part of the undead menace that destroyed Lordearon and is threatening all life on Azeroth.

Not hard to see why Joe Alliance isn't that willing to buddy up to the Horde.

[MorpheousXO]

And of course the Forsaken are still a threat to all life, trying to make a better plague and all (not that everyone knows that...)

[OddHat]

All the babes are "hot lesbians" (not that they have sex with eachother either), and no one actually has reproductive organs. The hunks and babes will be extinct within a generation.

[Inu]

Hunks and babes? Have you seen those character models? Most of them are mutants at best, even the humans.

As for the orc thing, both the berserkers and noble warriors exist. The race as a whole seems to tend to be shortsighted, and even the smart ones have their failings. Thrall, for instance, doesn't want war with humans, even if only because it weakens his people. However, if htere's trouble between humans and orcs, even if the orcs started it, he'll side with the orcs. If there's a local orc chieftain who raids humans, he won't discipline that chieftain, because he's blind to his own people's faults.

On the human side, most of them are... well, pretty freakin' racist. Stormwind is not a bastion of good and nobleness, it's a bastion is nobbishness, politics and strife, completely spun into paranoia by one of their own, who is in fact a dragon-queen. ^_- I have much less insight into Night Elves, though... they're enigmas, really.

On the small scale, I see a lot of potential for individuals to form friendships. Alliance and Horde races mix in neutral territory, for instance. While players can't talk to each other, NPCs can talk to both factions with no problems. Will have problems going into most settlements that are one faction or another, though, as most humans are probably 'kill orc on sight', and vice versa. Still, there are probably enough mixed settlements to provide some variety.

[Kristopher]

Hunks and babes? Have you seen those character models? Most of them are mutants at best, even the humans.

As for the orc thing, both the berserkers and noble warriors exist. The race as a whole seems to tend to be shortsighted, and even the smart ones have their failings. Thrall, for instance, doesn't want war with humans, even if only because it weakens his people. However, if htere's trouble between humans and orcs, even if the orcs started it, he'll side with the orcs. If there's a local orc chieftain who raids humans, he won't discipline that chieftain, because he's blind to his own people's faults.

On the human side, most of them are... well, pretty freakin' racist. Stormwind is not a bastion of good and nobleness, it's a bastion is nobbishness, politics and strife, completely spun into paranoia by one of their own, who is in fact a dragon-queen. ^_- I have much less insight into Night Elves, though... they're enigmas, really.

On the small scale, I see a lot of potential for individuals to form friendships. Alliance and Horde races mix in neutral territory, for instance. While players can't talk to each other, NPCs can talk to both factions with no problems. Will have problems going into most settlements that are one faction or another, though, as most humans are probably 'kill orc on sight', and vice versa. Still, there are probably enough mixed settlements to provide some variety.

The Night Elves have their own internal problems, revolving around the loss of the "world tree" and their attempts to grow a new one.

In terms of cross-"border" cooperation, many of the factions involve species from both sides -- Argent Dawn, Cenarion Circle, etc.

[Twilight]

Inu makes some good points, though I think he paints the people of Stormwind a little to blackly. While there's undoubtedly some racism there it can't be as bad as he suggests, otherwise they'd never been such staunch allies with the dwarves, gnomes and night elves. I'm not saying they're all wonderful but most of the playable races in World of Warcraft seem to have the capacity for goodness, no matter how evil they've been in the past.

As for Thrall, I honestly don't think he is blind to the faults of his people. If anything I'd say he's all to aware of them, given how many orcs still support the Shadow Council and Rend Blackhand's Dark Horde. He also is wise enough to know that hollering on his troops for every altercation with humans isn't going to make the situation better.

[Kristopher]

Inu makes some good points, though I think he paints the people of Stormwind a little to blackly. While there's undoubtedly some racism there it can't be as bad as he suggests, otherwise they'd never been such staunch allies with the dwarves, gnomes and night elves. I'm not saying they're all wonderful but most of the playable races in World of Warcraft seem to have the capacity for goodness, no matter how evil they've been in the past.

Depends on the human. On one hand, there's an entire district in Stormwind full of dwarves and gnomes. On the other hand, it was in large part human racism that drove the Blood Elves to become that they are now, which isn't very nice.

(Frankly, Silvermoon City gives me the heebie-geebies with a slight 1984 - Brave New World - We - Anthem kinda thing going on.)

[Twilight]

Depends on the human. On one hand, there's an entire district in Stormwind full of dwarves and gnomes. On the other hand, it was in large part human racism that drove the Blood Elves to become that they are now, which isn't very nice.

(Frankly, Silvermoon City gives me the heebie-geebies with a slight 1984 - Brave New World - We - Anthem kinda thing going on.)

Well I never said the place was perfect, which is perhaps why the setting is as popular as it is. It's things like that that make it seem more realistic?

[input.jack]

(I also find myself wonder how a planet peopled entirely by hunks and babes doesn't have more sex and romance going on, but that's another question.....)

It is...just in private tells.

When someone mistells, it can be hilarious!

[Inu]

It is...just in private tells.

When someone mistells, it can be hilarious!
I've heard stories of people who cyber for gold. Never seen one myself, but...

[Mister E]

Try playing on an RP or RP/PvP server. They're the best. A girl I was dating last summer made a nightelf, and was cybering in the starting-zone about 15 minutes later. Goldshire used to be pretty infamous, too. I've seen lots of lvl 1 nightelves make the long run just to participate in the RP. These days, Silvermoon City, with all its lovely couches and curtains, has turned into romance-central.

As far as the Horde vs. Alliance war... I totally know what you mean. It's ridiculous. However, the further you get into the game, the more the war falls appart, what with shared cities/towns and stuff. It makes no sense whatsoever in the Outlands for the Horde and Alliance to fight... but they still do of course.

Beyond that, I look to the non-player organizations (like the Bloodsail Buccaneers) to lead the way to a future world where orcs and humans live in peace.

[Inu]

As far as the Horde vs. Alliance war... I totally know what you mean. It's ridiculous. However, the further you get into the game, the more the war falls appart, what with shared cities/towns and stuff. It makes no sense whatsoever in the Outlands for the Horde and Alliance to fight... but they still do of course.
What boggles my mind is that organisations like the Cenarion Circle end up promoting the conflict. In Silithus, there's world pvp provided by gathering and refining a particular mineral (I forget its name). The faction that is gathering more gets a blessing from the Circle, applied to everyone from that faction in the zone. By doing this, they're clearly giving the sides incentive to kill each other! And this is from an organisation that is trying to get people to work together.

Had the devs made the buff provided by that faction, not the Circle, it would have made much more sense. A definite case of 'are they actually thinking about the game world, or just the numbers?'

[Mister E]

What boggles my mind is that organisations like the Cenarion Circle end up promoting the conflict. In Silithus, there's world pvp provided by gathering and refining a particular mineral (I forget its name). The faction that is gathering more gets a blessing from the Circle, applied to everyone from that faction in the zone. By doing this, they're clearly giving the sides incentive to kill each other! And this is from an organisation that is trying to get people to work together.

Had the devs made the buff provided by that faction, not the Circle, it would have made much more sense. A definite case of 'are they actually thinking about the game world, or just the numbers?'

"Silithist," is the name of the mineral. I rocked at avoiding the mobs in the zone... and I loved using the Thunderbrew's Bootflask trinket so I could breath fire, when I had the Silithist animation engulfing me in PvP. :p

... and I agree. The dev's suck in many ways, of course. One of my all-time biggest gripes was that I couldn't get a Corrupted Nightsabre (green with orange stripes: part of a lone horde quest in Felwood) mount for my He-Man knock-off (the RP costume was perfect. He even belonged to his own guild, "Prince of Eternia.")

[Lethosos]

Only because there's no skin for it. (I know, I attempted to do it once, but failed because the MPQ wasn't set right.)

Anyways... I think of it as a friendly competition--Slithus is already a deadly zone, so why fight each other? I never did any PvP in there, anyways.

If you really want to run a game in the Warcraft Universe, I suggest looking into the RPG material instead. There's still plenty of skirmishes, and attempts to disrupt the status quo--you can use it as the backdrop against the larger threats, such as the Black Dragonflight vs Ragnaros which threatens to spill out of Blackrock and into the surrounding lands.

[Vondy]

Since hunkiness and babalisciousness are relative and need an average base-line for comparison (i.e., a hunk/babe compared to what?), would not a world where everyone was a hunk/babe be a world where everyone was, by its standards, average? There's probably not more sex and romance going on than in a world with bunches of average people because, when the norm is considered, all the hunks/babes are all... meh.

[Lethosos]

You might want to knock it down a notch--the average Joe & Thok are no more than average specced NPCs. You have to think of adventurers as a finite resource--unlike the game, your Azeroth may have, say, five-six small "companies" that could call a major city like Stormwind their home base. Equate a company to a group of players, and your players automatically are a cut above the average.