Update 1.47

[Simon]

Update 1.47 is now available for download!

Bug fixes in this version include:
<ul><li>Adding lists from a prefab adds the list items twice</li>
<li>Charges with clips not restoring number of clips properly</li>
<li>Pasting multiple copies of the same Power into the same character causes various problems (list numbering, etc.) due to the ID not being reset</li>
<li>Changing the cost savings on a Skill Enhancer (template change) has no effect</li>
</ul>

Enjoy!

[comfortmd]

i use templates a lot, but HD seriously lags my machine, which still performs perfectly being engineered as a video capture/editing machine. I take the steps to clear out whichever templates i am not using. Is there a limit to what HD can display in powers before it develops an error??

[Simon]

I'm not sure what you mean by "clear out whichever templates I am not using"....

In v1 there are two main things which will slow down HD: available RAM and the size of the purchase lists. So long as HD is given the RAM that it needs (128MB), it should run fairly smoothly. If the purchase lists get to be very big (frex, the skill list on Dr. Destroyer), then it will start to be slow in regards to that list (moving items, adding items, etc).

If you can give me some more details on what you're seeing, I can probably help a bit more....

[comfortmd]

Originally posted by dsimon
I'm not sure what you mean by "clear out whichever templates I am not using"....

In v1 there are two main things which will slow down HD: available RAM and the size of the purchase lists. So long as HD is given the RAM that it needs (128MB), it should run fairly smoothly. If the purchase lists get to be very big (frex, the skill list on Dr. Destroyer), then it will start to be slow in regards to that list (moving items, adding items, etc).

If you can give me some more details on what you're seeing, I can probably help a bit more....
ok, you know how you can make prefabs, then load or unload them at will, i had to split up some of my vehicle weapon prefab lists because hd would stop responding when i was working with the prefab lists, i can send you them if you want, they are VERY long, even after i divided them up, and it still sometimes happens

[Simon]

Sounds like you're running out of RAM.

If you've got the prefabs loaded (as prefabs, not as "characters"), then they're actually pretty light on the system, memory-wise.

What other apps are you running alongside HD?

If you're only having problems when running with extremely large prefabs, then you may be better off just splitting those prefabs up still further....that way you can pick and choose what you want to load in at any given time.

If you like, post the trace.log file (in your install directory) after a slowdown and I can take a look at it.

[comfortmd]

ok will do, have 768 mb ram, run nav, audigy 2 suite, radeon capture suite, system uses 250 or so mb normally, in some of the prefabs i have 50 or so entries, i will send you a copy of the log next time there is a slowdown

[Simon]

Actually, with those apps running, it sounds like it may well be a CPU issue.

HD performs a large number of calculations in order to keep everything in sync as you make changes. If it has to compete for CPU time with a large number of other apps (video capture apps are notoriously CPU-intensive), then it will run noticeably slower.

You may try shutting down the video capture apps while you are running HD (and vice versa).

[lensman]

Take a look at the Swim power buy in the .hdc

Power costs -1 pts., before that it cost zero points.

Trying to model the Galleon from UV pg. 63

[lensman]

Take a look at the Swim power buy in the .hdc

Power costs -1 pts., before that it cost zero points.

Trying to model the Galleon from UV pg. 63

[Simon]

Originally posted by lensman
Take a look at the Swim power buy in the .hdc

Power costs -1 pts., before that it cost zero points.

Trying to model the Galleon from UV pg. 63

What seems to be the problem? You've taken 1-point of Swimming, tossed on -4.5 in Limitations and added the Limitations to your base Characteristic,

Your base Swimming is 2 and you've bought 1 level as a Power. Now, here's the tricky part where we apply the Limitations to the base Characteristic and to the Power:

Characteristic: 2" of Swimming has an Active Cost of 2 points. 2/(1+4.5) = 2/5.5 =.3 = 0. 2-0 = 2 points reduction by the Limitations.

Power: 1" of Swimming has an Active Cost of 1. 1/(1+4.5) = 1/5.5 = .1 = 1 point (since there is a minimum cost for a Power of 1 point, you can't reduce it to 0.

1 - 2 (the savings from the base Characteristic) = -1 point.

[lensman]

Originally posted by dsimon
Characteristic: 2" of Swimming has an Active Cost of 2 points. 2/(1+4.5) = 2/5.5 =.3 = 0. 2-0 = 2 points reduction by the Limitations.

Power: 1" of Swimming has an Active Cost of 1. 1/(1+4.5) = 1/5.5 = .1 = 1 point (since there is a minimum cost for a Power of 1 point, you can't reduce it to 0.

1 - 2 (the savings from the base Characteristic) = -1 point.

My problem is this, the rounding of 2/5.5 =.3 = 0. 2-0 = 2 points reduction by the Limitations.

I refer to Fred pg. 67, under How to buy Powers.

"The minimum cost for any Power, regardless of the Limitations appliedto it, is 1 Character point."

So it seems an adjustment would be indicated.

[Simon]

Originally posted by lensman
My problem is this, the rounding of 2/5.5 =.3 = 0. 2-0 = 2 points reduction by the Limitations.

I refer to Fred pg. 67, under How to buy Powers.

"The minimum cost for any Power, regardless of the Limitations appliedto it, is 1 Character point."

So it seems an adjustment would be indicated.
No. You're not buying a Power, you're reducing the "value" of your base characteristic. Your base characteristic is free. It doesn't cost you anything.

The "value" of the Limitation that you have placed on your base characteristic is -2 points. Effectively, you've limited the base characteristic enough that it's akin to selling it off. Close enough, at least, that rounding rules give you the same points for it.

When you're actually buying a Power (the +1" of Swimming, the minimum cost of 1 point is enforced (see my explanation above). It has no bearing in applying Limitations to base characteristics, however.

HD is doing things correctly.

[Simon]

Originally posted by dsimon
No. You're not buying a Power, you're reducing the "value" of your base characteristic. Your base characteristic is free. It doesn't cost you anything.

The "value" of the Limitation that you have placed on your base characteristic is -2 points. Effectively, you've limited the base characteristic enough that it's akin to selling it off. Close enough, at least, that rounding rules give you the same points for it.

When you're actually buying a Power (the +1" of Swimming, the minimum cost of 1 point is enforced (see my explanation above). It has no bearing in applying Limitations to base characteristics, however.

HD is doing things correctly.
Another way to think of this power construct which may help you understand what's going on:

You're buying 1" of Swimming as a Power (with lots of Limitations) plus a Naked Limitation which you are applying to your base Swimming.

There is no "minimum value" for a Naked Limitation....this wouldn't make any sense, as a Naked Limitation will, by nature, have a negative value.

The Real Cost of your Swimming Power is 1 point.

The Real Cost of the Naked Limitation is -2 points.

Total Cost: -1 point.

The "apply modifiers to base characteristic" functionality is basically just a naked modifier....except the modifier effects are applied to the characteristics in question (so if you buy 0-END for your STR, the END usage will show as 0).

[Simon]

Originally posted by dsimon
Another way to think of this power construct which may help you understand what's going on:

You're buying 1" of Swimming as a Power (with lots of Limitations) plus a Naked Limitation which you are applying to your base Swimming.

There is no "minimum value" for a Naked Limitation....this wouldn't make any sense, as a Naked Limitation will, by nature, have a negative value.

The Real Cost of your Swimming Power is 1 point.

The Real Cost of the Naked Limitation is -2 points.

Total Cost: -1 point.

The "apply modifiers to base characteristic" functionality is basically just a naked modifier....except the modifier effects are applied to the characteristics in question (so if you buy 0-END for your STR, the END usage will show as 0).
Yet another way to look at it:

If you sold off your base Swimming, you would get 2 points back.

If you then bought the Swimming Power at +3" with the Limitations that you applied, it would cost you 1 point.

Total cost (selling off your base Swimming and purchasing +3" of Swimming with the Limitations): -1 point.

Again, HD's math is correct (and according to the rules).

[Victor]

When buying Grounds for a Base, if you change the multiple of the Base's SIZE in the display string, the first number in the string is always replaced with the value HD "thinks" it should be.

Example: Buying 12 points of Grounds gives you a 4096 Multiple of the Base's SIZE. Change the 4096 to 3237 in the display string. Hit "OK", and the 3237 is replaced by 4096. Setting the Display string to "foo 3237 bar 3237" results in "foo 4096 bar 3237".

The user should be able to specify the multiple, as long as it's lower than the one paid for, right?

[Victor]

Survival ignores the cost of Custom Adders completely, unless one of the pre-supplied Adders is selected.

It works correctly for Navigation and Weaponsmith, however.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Victor
When buying Grounds for a Base, if you change the multiple of the Base's SIZE in the display string, the first number in the string is always replaced with the value HD "thinks" it should be.

Example: Buying 12 points of Grounds gives you a 4096 Multiple of the Base's SIZE. Change the 4096 to 3237 in the display string. Hit "OK", and the 3237 is replaced by 4096. Setting the Display string to "foo 3237 bar 3237" results in "foo 4096 bar 3237".

The user should be able to specify the multiple, as long as it's lower than the one paid for, right?
Not in v1. The actual size/layout of the base is specified under the description (text)....Grounds simply sets the level/cost.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Victor
Survival ignores the cost of Custom Adders completely, unless one of the pre-supplied Adders is selected.

It works correctly for Navigation and Weaponsmith, however.
Errr....are you sure you're running v1.47? I just tried putting in a Custom Adder for Survival and it's working just fine.

If I give the Custom Adder a positive value, the cost of the Skill in increased....if I give it a negative value, the cost is decreased....even allowing the total cost of the Skill to go negative.

[Victor]

Originally posted by dsimon
Errr....are you sure you're running v1.47? I just tried putting in a Custom Adder for Survival and it's working just fine


Yes. I went back to verify that, and then couldn't get it to happen again, so I fiddled more and got halfway there;

Buy Survival and mark it as a Familiarity. Cost is 0 (which is wrong to start with). Give it a Custom Adder of however many points you like. Cost is still 0.

I earlier had somehow I gotten it into a state where it was ignoring the adder as a full skill (as opposed to a Familiarity) too, but can't seem to repeat it. I'll keep poking at it... if I can make that happen again, I'll post steps and/or a character file.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Victor
Yes. I went back to verify that, and then couldn't get it to happen again, so I fiddled more and got halfway there;

Buy Survival and mark it as a Familiarity. Cost is 0 (which is wrong to start with). Give it a Custom Adder of however many points you like. Cost is still 0.

I earlier had somehow I gotten it into a state where it was ignoring the adder as a full skill (as opposed to a Familiarity) too, but can't seem to repeat it. I'll keep poking at it... if I can make that happen again, I'll post steps and/or a character file.
If you make Survival a Familiarity, you have to have one of the categories selected....once you do, it will set the cost to 1 point (correct). If you want a "custom" category, just type over the name of one of the existing ones.

[Grymlynn]

Can someone tell me how to install the update once I've downloaded it? It may be a case of cranial/rectal insertion, but when I double click "update.jar" to get it to start, my system askes me what application I want to associate jar files with. It sounds like a JAVA ap to me, so should I use IE? Just a little help getting over the hump, please. Thanx!

[Simon]

Originally posted by Grymlynn
Can someone tell me how to install the update once I've downloaded it? It may be a case of cranial/rectal insertion, but when I double click "update.jar" to get it to start, my system askes me what application I want to associate jar files with. It sounds like a JAVA ap to me, so should I use IE? Just a little help getting over the hump, please. Thanx!
All you need to do is save it to your install directory (typically c:\Program Files\HeroDesigner).

That's it. Don't open it, or run it, or do anything else....just save it to the directory and run HD.