How do you become a Jedi

[LordGhee]

The Jedi way

Episode 1.2

Hello all.

I am starting the second of my Star Wars games again. In the course of the first game it came up what makes a Padawan a Jedi.

It seems that the council is the body that grants or confirms titles in the order. (note in my star wars universe the title of knight is a title of the Galactic Republic that is law enforcement with judge powers.

The Trials are mention as the way to become a Jedi.

In my game the trials are not a set of test that you can take as an exam but a set of circumstances that have been over came that show the maturity of a Jedi. Anikin displays his lack of knowledge and maturity when he asks to be tested.

The trial of Strength and the trial of Courage are the only two mentioned.
I am trying to expand the trials to 5.
The trial of Sprit and the trial of knowledge are two that I came up with.

So thoughts on what they mean and any ideals please.

Lord Ghee

[clsage]

The Jedi way

Episode 1.2

Hello all.

I am starting the second of my Star Wars games again. In the course of the first game it came up what makes a Padawan a Jedi.

It seems that the council is the body that grants or confirms titles in the order. (note in my star wars universe the title of knight is a title of the Galactic Republic that is law enforcement with judge powers.

The Trials are mention as the way to become a Jedi.

In my game the trials are not a set of test that you can take as an exam but a set of circumstances that have been over came that show the maturity of a Jedi. Anikin displays his lack of knowledge and maturity when he asks to be tested.

The trial of Strength and the trial of Courage are the only two mentioned.
I am trying to expand the trials to 5.
The trial of Sprit and the trial of knowledge are two that I came up with.

So thoughts on what they mean and any ideals please.

Lord Ghee

Hmmmmm......As some might say, knowledge and wisdom are two
seperate things. So perhaps a Trial of Wisdom ?

-Carl-

[Outsider]

I'd have a test of Justice or Compassion. Something to seperate the Jedi from the Sith, anyway.

[JmOz]

I actualy like the idea of the Sith not being evil per say, but rather a different philosiphy, one that admitingly permits evil behavior, and that might even lend itself to it somewhat, but that being evil is not a requirement of it (Does that make sense?)

[Dholcrist]

As far as the Sith code, I've always really liked how they handled it in KotoR (and subsequently in the newest SWRPG book)

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

Sets the Sith as less Evil, and just as willing to attain greater connection to the Force through allowing ones emotions to help you by embracing them, instead of denying them (like the Jedi).

Anyways, the Trial of Spirit and Trial of Compassion aren't bad ones. Trial of the Heart? Or something similar.

Edit:
Alright, just looked up the Jedi Order on Wikipedia, and I completely forgot about these other Trials that were named in the EU (though I forget where originally): the Trial of Flesh, the Trial of Courage, the Trial of Skill and the Trial of Self (also known as "facing the mirror"). The Trial of Self was what Luke went through in Empire when he fought Vader/himself on Dagobah.

Anyways, hope that helps.

That should round out your Trials.

[Badger]

I actualy like the idea of the Sith not being evil per say, but rather a different philosiphy, one that admitingly permits evil behavior, and that might even lend itself to it somewhat, but that being evil is not a requirement of it (Does that make sense?)

Makes sense to me. Though Lucas will likely burn you at the stake. ;)

[pinecone]

So..is "Bullet with buterfly wings" the oficial Sith song?

[clsage]

As far as the Sith code, I've always really liked how they handled it in KotoR (and subsequently in the newest SWRPG book)

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.



Hmmm....The Sith as followers of Nietzsche and Rand ? It would
make sense for Lucas to have conceived it that way, as there
was a historical backlash to such beliefs and behaviours in the
late 1960's and early 1970's. Look at how (gasp!!) Star Trek
handles such things: references to things being "anti-humanistic",
eugenics and its' evils, etc. Now compare the Sith/Jedi conflict
with that imagery....Both are definately products of their age.

Just my semi-random $.02US.

-Carl-

[Dholcrist]

Hmmm....The Sith as followers of Nietzsche and Rand ? It would
make sense for Lucas to have conceived it that way, as there
was a historical backlash to such beliefs and behaviours in the
late 1960's and early 1970's. Look at how (gasp!!) Star Trek
handles such things: references to things being "anti-humanistic",
eugenics and its' evils, etc. Now compare the Sith/Jedi conflict
with that imagery....Both are definately products of their age.

Just my semi-random $.02US.

Yeah, it would've made a lot of sense for Lucas to set it up that way. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. Since almost all of his creations have been made wonderful only through the filter of a studio or other person's vision, I sincerely doubt that that was his original intention. Also, note that the first place this was written (that I know of, at least) was in the KotOR game, and then subsequently made canon (again, this is according to what I've read, so I could be wrong). Still, I'm a huge fan of the way they constructed it.

And, while slightly off-topic, while looking up the Trials I stumbled upon an article that claimed that Anakin, being the Chosen One, fulfilled the prophecy by destroying the Sith in RotJ, bringing balance to the Force. I was always convinced that the "Balance" that was actually referred to in the prequels was actually a balance between "good" (Jedi) and "evil" (Sith/dark siders), which previous to Anakin was obviously imbalanced (thousands of Light Siders scouring the Galaxy, 2 Sith), and so taking the Jedi down to a mere handful (maybe down to only 2 once Obi Wan died, possibly only leaving Yoda and Luke, then only Luke to find his own apprentice). I guess what I'm saying is that if "balance to the Force" is actually killing all Sith, that seems pretty lame to me. You can't have light without dark.

And I've rambled. Sorry for the rants folks, we now return you to your previously aired thread.

[Thia Halmades]

Well, there are a number of things. Among them of course are the basic trials; if you're a fan of Star Wars, I'm stunned you haven't yet played Knights of the Old Republic, wherein you do become a Jedi. One of the core requirements is to build your own functional light saber. A more elegant weapon, from a more civilized age.

So I would assume that among the other skills required (and Jedi are extremely skill heavy; even the lowest ranked know Beauracratics, Diplomacy, Negotiation, KS: Galactic Law, PS: Jedi Knight, KS: Code of the Jedi and so on. The package done right would cost a damn fortune).

But if you're looking for pure trials, then the construction of the Lightsaber is a "Trial of Control." Because you have to use your Force Powers to properly align the crystals; that's why lightsabers are so rare. Each Jedi generally builds his own, as it reflects the user in design, length, and so on. However, no machine will ever be precise enough to both align & activate the crystals, you need a Jedi for that.

Although having captured Jedi create lightsabers for distribution among the populace (either being forced or being really nasty Sith who want to turn a profit) and then creating a group of "fake Jedi" who are causing all kinds of chaos would make for a good plot arc.

On the topic of the Sith, more than just a philosophical divide, the idea of the Sith is one built on a pursuit of power. But it's more an "inner power" or "power at any cost" than anything else, and that's the critical piece most people miss. As Karmakaze says, " not evil, [it's being] [I]differently motivated."

[SuperPheemy]

What I found interesting in the "each Jedi builds his/her own lightsabre" statement is that it is properly shown in the original trilogy, but in Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith, it seems that there are lightsabres galore. (Not to mention that everyone in the Jedi Temple, from 7 year old Younglings, to 20 year old Padawans all have a lightsabre).

It makes some sense, since Jedi are in a dangerous business and sabres get lost, broken, etc... It doesn't do to have Jedi out of action for a month because of a lost lightsabre.

However it means that either a given Jedi builds a couple of backup sabres, or that someone somewhere is stockpiling old Jedi lightsabres in enough numbers that in the case of prolonged battle, they can keep the troops stocked.

Which is all beside the main point of the post. Building a Lightsabre should be one of the trials for inclusion into the Jedi order.

[SCUBA Hero]

the Trial of FleshA Jedi must be the Master of his own Domain! :p

[Nevenall]

In my campaign the characters were given the sabers they used as apprentices. Then when they had proven themselves sufficiently, in this case battle field experience replaced formal trials, Luke took their lightsabers and left then on a lonely planet to quest for the crystals needed to make their own.
The best part of this adventure was how clever the players got when they didn't have a lightsaber to rely on.
In a similar vein, how about a trial of survival where the padwan is left on a hostile planet with only his robes?

[Steel Legs]

Based on what Yoda tried to teach Luke there's gotta be a Trial of Patience and a Trial of Mindfulness maybe called the Trial of Awareness and the Trial of Control

[Lawnmower Boy]

i) Try a career as a child jockey.
ii) Have a high midchlorian count.
The rest takes care of itself, and everything ends for the best.

[Steel Legs]

i) Try a career as a child jockey.
ii) Have a high midchlorian count.
The rest takes care of itself, and everything ends for the best.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
:thumbup:Excellent!:thumbup:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[pinecone]

Find an old dude next to a creaky bridge..."If You would a Jedi be...first you must answer my questions three....."

"What is your name?"

"What is your favorite color?"

"What is Leia's cup size?"

Yaaahhhhhhh...thud

[Steel Legs]

Find an old dude next to a creaky bridge..."If You would a Jedi be...first you must answer my questions three....."

"What is your name?"

"What is your favorite color?"

"What is Leia's cup size?"

"Why do you want to know that, you old lech?"
"Oh, I don't know, I ... "


Yaaahhhhhhh...thud

:eg: :rofl:

[pinecone]

"Why do you want to know that, you old lech?"
"Oh, I don't know, I ... "



:eg: :rofl:

I so owe ya rep now...:)

[Mister E]

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed,
the lips acquire stains,
the stains become a warning.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

~ Piter De Vries, "Dune."

[SCUBA Hero]

the Trial of FleshA Jedi must be the Master of His Own Domain! :eg:

[AmadanNaBriona]

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed,
the lips acquire stains,
the stains become a warning.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

~ Piter De Vries, "Dune."

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

It is by the juice of the java bean that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shaking,
the shaking becomes a warning.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."

~ Simon, "Hero boards"

[Clonus]

actually a balance between "good" (Jedi) and "evil" (Sith/dark siders), which previous to Anakin was obviously imbalanced (thousands of Light Siders scouring the Galaxy, 2 Sith), and so


I think the number of Force users on either side is irrelevant. The Dark Side exists even if nobody specifically uses it for hoodoo. The Sith wouldn't have deliberately limited themselves to a handful of members if that really put them at a disadvantage, and wouldn't have swept the the Jedi away either. The "imbalance in the Force" that Anakin was supposed to correct, I suspect was an actual imbalance in the Force itself, not in the people using it, a weighting toward the Dark side that actually let Palpatine sneak up on thousands of precognitives and take them by surprise, because his side was stronger and could blind their side.

[SCUBA Hero]

Mmmmm. Difficult to see, the Dark Side is...

[wcw43921]

I think the number of Force users on either side is irrelevant. The Dark Side exists even if nobody specifically uses it for hoodoo. The Sith wouldn't have deliberately limited themselves to a handful of members if that really put them at a disadvantage, and wouldn't have swept the the Jedi away either. The "imbalance in the Force" that Anakin was supposed to correct, I suspect was an actual imbalance in the Force itself, not in the people using it, a weighting toward the Dark side that actually let Palpatine sneak up on thousands of precognitives and take them by surprise, because his side was stronger and could blind their side.

I concur. Remember that at the end of The Phantom Menace, Palpatine was standing in the middle of the enitre Jedi council, and they couldn't sense his strength with the Dark Side. That's how powerful he was.

The Sith were all about power, and their thirst for it allowed them to accumulate it to a monstrous degree. Destroying the Sith dispersed the power and restored the balance.

Of course, without knowing the actual text of the prophecy, we may never know what was meant by restoring "balance to the Force." Perhaps if Yoda and the others had studied the prophecy more carefully, they could have prevented the annihilation of the Jedi and the fall of the Republic.

[StGrimblefig]

In my campaign the characters were given the sabers they used as apprentices. Then when they had proven themselves sufficiently, in this case battle field experience replaced formal trials, Luke took their lightsabers and left then on a lonely planet to quest for the crystals needed to make their own.
The best part of this adventure was how clever the players got when they didn't have a lightsaber to rely on.
In a similar vein, how about a trial of survival where the padwan is left on a hostile planet with only his robes?
That makes a lot of sense, especially when you look at the original trilogy. Luke used his father's lightsaber until it was lost (along with the hand that held it) in Cloud City. When he next met Darth Vader, he had a new lightsaber, and Vader commented on its construction.

[Checkmate]

I actualy like the idea of the Sith not being evil per say, but rather a different philosiphy, one that admitingly permits evil behavior, and that might even lend itself to it somewhat, but that being evil is not a requirement of it (Does that make sense?)
I dislike this take on it. If you could be good and still use the dark side, why wouldn't everyone? It's been established that the Dark Side, while not more powerful is easier. I like the idea of the Dark Side corrupting the user, meaning you have to use the tougher light side.

[StGrimblefig]

I concur. Remember that at the end of The Phantom Menace, Palpatine was standing in the middle of the enitre Jedi council, and they couldn't sense his strength with the Dark Side. That's how powerful he was.

The Sith were all about power, and their thirst for it allowed them to accumulate it to a monstrous degree. Destroying the Sith dispersed the power and restored the balance.

Of course, without knowing the actual text of the prophecy, we may never know what was meant by restoring "balance to the Force." Perhaps if Yoda and the others had studied the prophecy more carefully, they could have prevented the annihilation of the Jedi and the fall of the Republic.
I agree that, having not seen the actual text of the prophecy, it is difficult to plumb its depths, but Prophecy is, as a rule, notoriously vague and open to interpretation. As a personal view, I always saw it as a thing of multiple levels:

1. Balancing the numbers of Sith and Jedi
This is fairly obvious.

2. Balancing the psyches of the individual force users
The Jedi and Sith are polar opposites at the extremes of behavioral science, and both are far from what would be expected from a normal, healthy member of society. The Jedi afraid of any emotional release, and the Sith seemingly requiring it, puts them both a half-step away from psychosis.

3. Achieving work/life balance for individual force users
The training for both sides makes them Type A personalities of the first order. They are never really "off duty." They would all benefit from some occasional "down-time" -- pursue a hobby, date a girl, spend time with their families.

4. Eliminating labels such as Lightside and Darkside, and allowing all force-users to access all of the force's abilities.
The games really show this more, with a player that walks the knife-edge between light and dark having a greater variety of force powers to choose from.

and, of course:

5. Balancing the checkbook of George Lucas.



And let's talk for a moment about how the potential for force use is propagated through the galaxy. Given the philosophies of the two groups, you would think that there would be an horde of force-weilding Sith relatives, while the number of ascetic Jedi monks dwindles to nothing in but a few generations. The Sith seem to be the most likely to breed, thus passing those qualities to their offspring (which we have seen in the movies does happen). Unless the Jedi force all young, female padawans to give birth from a Jedi Master father (note the mention of psychosis above), there is no opportunity for those qualities to continue. Unless the capability to use the force is really caused by some alien organism in the blood that randomly hijacks a person and gives them force powers:


"Hey Bob, why are your pens floating around the cubicle like that?"

"Dunno. I think I caught the Force at that party over the weekend. I think maybe Tracy gave it to me."

"You and Tracy? You Sith dawg!"

[Fresh Head]

Mmmmm. Difficult to see, the Dark Side is...


The cave...remember your failure at the cave.

[SCUBA Hero]

The cave...remember your failure at the cave. But I've learned so much since then!!!

[JmOz]

I dislike this take on it. If you could be good and still use the dark side, why wouldn't everyone? It's been established that the Dark Side, while not more powerful is easier. I like the idea of the Dark Side corrupting the user, meaning you have to use the tougher light side.

ahh but I did not mention the dark side, I mentioned the sith.

If I was to run a SW game, I think I would have at least two groups of Jedi, dark and light. The Jedi way would be about calm surrender to the Force

The Sith would be about Passion, by there philospihy there would be no dark or light side (thus making them corruptable by the dark side), just good and evil people. In theroy (and I would have a couple) you could have some that wre good people who used there passion as protectors. For that matter if I was using the EU I could easily see Leia going down the road of a Light Sith

[Checkmate]

I've thought about this too. Being a Jedi makes for a boring story. There can be no romantic interests, no children of Jedi etc. As someone mentioned earlier since the Force seems to be able to be passed on.

I still don't like the idea of 2 light side Jedi. If you could be passionate and still be good, why would you suppress your emotions, and take the harder path? It's much easier to be able to blow up and show love, hate, etc. than it is to suppress all emotions.

[Maur]

Or just play in the era after the destruction of the Jedi temple and those restrictions. The Jedi were nearly wiped out, most of those written about in the EU from after that time have families, lovers, wives/husbands, children, etc...

[Checkmate]

Exactly, because it makes a better story (and sells more books which is really all Georgie cares about), even if it flies in the face of what a Jedi is supposed to be.

[Xander75]

I feel that the Jedi Order's dying off, and Palpatine's rise to Emperor, was partially because the Jedi restricted themselves too much at the end. Yes, some Jedi could have families, but it took a maturity that wasn't common, since many people feel jealousy here and there. And we all know what that leads too....

As far as the Sith not being evil, that just doesn't fly. Lucas has always had it that Jedi are good (though a bit boring) and the Sith are evil (and much more fun). And Lucas has said that evil is punished in his universe. Thus, not only does evil fall to good, but evil falls to evil (like KotOR, Malak's treachery weakens the Sith, not stregthens them).

Just some ramblings from a blind cook.......

[Clonus]

are evil (and much more fun). And Lucas has said that evil is punished in his universe. .

Yes but Lucas also said that Greedo shot first. Sometimes you've just got to ignore Lucas.

[rmccarty4]

Ladies & gentlemen, in the Star Wars movies, the Jedi are good, and the Sith are evil. The Light side is good, the Dark side is evil. Sith are not misunderstood, they're not "good from their own point of view", they're evil, and vile, and... evile. And that is the end of the story.
There's no post-modern moral relativism in Star Wars. There's no Manichean dualism. It's old fashioned morality. And in old fashioned morality, good is better than evil, and stronger than evil. Evil is glamorous and seductive, and also petty and self-defeating.
Think Golden Age or Silver Age comics. Think pulp sci-fi. Think movie serials. No gray areas. No complexity. Just good and evil. And the hero is on the side of good. And he wins. And you feel good about that.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Of course, it's your choice whether to maintain that worldview in your campaign, or whether you prefer to play in a campaign with that kind of worldview. But the movies are clear.

[Xander75]

Yes but Lucas also said that Greedo shot first. Sometimes you've just got to ignore Lucas.

Ignoring Lucas is almost my favorite pastime.

The whole Greedo shoots first thing was rediculous, how do you miss from that close?

[pinecone]

Ignoring Lucas is almost my favorite pastime.

The whole Greedo shoots first thing was rediculous, how do you miss from that close?

Solo rolled his Luck?

[Manic Typist]

Or it could have even been a warning shot.

But Han shot first, so it's moot.

[Checkmate]

Yes, some Jedi could have families, but it took a maturity that wasn't common, since many people feel jealousy here and there. And we all know what that leads too....
Actually they really couldn't...Well I suppose they could as long as they didn't love their wife and kids. Love leads to fear (of loss) which leads to the Dark Side.

[Clonus]

Ladies & gentlemen, in the Star Wars movies, the Jedi are good, and the Sith are evil. r.

Yeeeeah...I watched the prequels. So yes, the Sith are evil. The Jedi however...

[rmccarty4]

Love leads to fear (of loss) which leads to the Dark Side.

:weep:

Love does not lead to fear of loss. Possessiveness leads to fear of loss, and fear leads to the Dark Side. Love != possessiveness.
I'd say that possessiveness leads to the Dark Side, shortcutting fear on that path, although I can't recall that appearing in any canon source, so treat that as just one balding white man's opinion.

If you want to say that being married exposes one to the temptation to be possessive (among other temptations), and exposing oneself to those temptations is incompatible with being a Jedi, fine.

[Checkmate]

:weep:

Love does not lead to fear of loss. Possessiveness leads to fear of loss, and fear leads to the Dark Side. Love != possessiveness.
I'd say that possessiveness leads to the Dark Side, shortcutting fear on that path, although I can't recall that appearing in any canon source, so treat that as just one balding white man's opinion.

If you want to say that being married exposes one to the temptation to be possessive (among other temptations), and exposing oneself to those temptations is incompatible with being a Jedi, fine.
So you don't care if the person you love dies? What would you do to keep the person you loved from dying? This has nothing to do with possessiveness, just human nature.

[rmccarty4]

Moving over to Non-Gaming Discussions.

But I think this discussion implies a Trial of the Heart (or of Love, if you prefer) might be suitable to become a Jedi. I require time to think of a Trial of the Heart that doesn't involve intentional cruelty to an involved party.
Well, there should be enough opportunities in life over the training period of the Jedi for a clever Master to devise something for his/her Padawan. Parents, siblings, best friends, first crush on the Padawan hottie...

[PieMan]

I'd have a test of Justice or Compassion. Something to seperate the Jedi from the Sith, anyway.
Actually, Sith is not but a belief. Anyone who is skilled in the Force is a Jedi, for Jedi is a culture, a race, a civilization.

[LordGhee]

I beleive you are incorrect PieMan.

The Jedi are a group that reconizes that their are orthers that can use the force (the sith, people who do not make the cut to enter the temple). They never called the first sith anything but sith and desiribe him as skilled in the ways of the force.

Vader promoted Luke, "you are a Jedi now", reconizing that he not only used the force but also followed thier beliefs, traditiions and teachings.

Lord Ghee

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

A capable Jedi should be able to use and control their emotions, using them as a source of strength and power (yes, yes, just a minute) without losing their path.

Sith, on the other hand, use those emotions as a source of strength and power, but give free rein to them -- and are thus essentially letting their emotions control them. Anakin loves, but fears -- and, unable or unwilling to control his fear, pursues power. He lets his anger at a perceived betrayal dominate him, and inflicts grievous wounds on the one he most loved.

See my two comments here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1430063&postcount=6) and here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1430654&postcount=37)
about what makes someone a Jedi or Sith.

[Manic Typist]

I believe the Sith were originally a race, who got wiped out. Or at least mostly.

[lapsedgamer]

A capable Jedi should be able to use and control their emotions, using them as a source of strength and power (yes, yes, just a minute) without losing their path.

Sith, on the other hand, use those emotions as a source of strength and power, but give free rein to them -- and are thus essentially letting their emotions control them. Anakin loves, but fears -- and, unable or unwilling to control his fear, pursues power. He lets his anger at a perceived betrayal dominate him, and inflicts grievous wounds on the one he most loved.

See my two comments here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1430063&postcount=6) and here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1430654&postcount=37)
about what makes someone a Jedi or Sith.

Though I didn't like the prequels, I liked Samual Jackson as Mace Windu. I always got the impression that he was one step from going all Pulp Fiction in his fight scenes. He gave of this aura of tightly controlled anger, yet he was always in calm and cool.

[Checkmate]

Anakin loves, but fears -- and, unable or unwilling to control his fear, pursues power. He lets his anger at a perceived betrayal dominate him, and inflicts grievous wounds on the one he most loved.
I look at the Force this way: "The Dark Side" intensifies your emotions. If you fear, it makes your fear uncontrollable. If you're angry, it makes your anger uncontrollable. All it needs is a little bit of emotion and it turns it against you. This is why to use the Light Side, you have to suppress your emotions.

[austenandrews]

The Jedi are a group that reconizes that their are orthers that can use the force (the sith, people who do not make the cut to enter the temple). They never called the first sith anything but sith and desiribe him as skilled in the ways of the force.

Just to point out, when Qui-Gon first fought Darth Maul, his comment was "It was well-trained in the Jedi arts."

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Though I didn't like the prequels, I liked Samual Jackson as Mace Windu. I always got the impression that he was one step from going all Pulp Fiction in his fight scenes. He gave of this aura of tightly controlled anger, yet he was always in calm and cool.

"What?!?"
"Do they speak English in What?"
"WHAT?!?"
"ENGLISH, MOTHER-F*****, DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?"
*snap-hiss of lightsaber*

Heh. Great scenes. And yes, according to d20 Star Wars, of the seven different Jedi martial arts, Mace Windu is one of the few who has the expertise to use the seventh. Most of those who do already have mastered two or three of the others; everyone learns the 'beginner' form, Basic Strike, Offensive Strike, Martial Block, Martial Dodge, plus other items -- but develop beyond that as their Masters and life experiences teach them. Form VII is a very 'controlled passion' form.

Though they never really get named, I stuck some names on for my own use:

Form I: Beginner
Form II: Duellist
Form III: Defender
Form IV: Swashbuckler
Form V: Crusader
Form VI: Diplomat
Form VII: Samurai

[LordGhee]

Bad names we need a naming conterst.


LordGhee

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Gee. Maybe you should read the descriptions?

From Star Wars Galaxies Stratics (http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/lightsaber_combat.php):

Since the dawn of Jedi history, seven fighting disciplines have arisen, known as the Seven Forms. The Forms represent differing styles and philosophies of combat. Each Form has its respective merits, and as seen in Attack of the Clones, all of them are still in use.

Form I: Beginner

Millennia before the Clone Wars, advanced technology replaced metal swords with energy-beam lightsabers. In this transition the first Form was born. Jedi Masters created Form I from ancient sword-fighting traditions, since the principles of blade combat remained much the same. The basics of attack, parry, body target zones, and the practice drills called velocities are all here.

http://swg.stratics.com/content/gameplay/professions/jedi/images/formi.jpg
Young Jedi still begin their training by learning Form I.

Form II: Duellist

The ultimate refinement of lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat became Form II, advancing the precision of blade manipulation to its finest possible degree and producing the greatest dueling masters the galaxy has ever seen.

Form II is an archaism studied by almost no one in the Jedi Order, because it is not relevant to current tactical situations, in which Jedi enemies rarely fight with lightsabers. Even with the resurgence of the Sith, confrontation of an enemy with a lightsaber is an exceedingly rare prospect for a Jedi, so they continue to focus on more practical Forms. Sith expecting to battle lightsaber-wielding Jedi, however, find Form II a powerful technique.

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Form II is the chosen discipline of the machiavellian Separatist Count Dooku, who wields it to devastating effect. His utterly precise moves overwhelm Jedi who are not accustomed to the special requirements of lightsaber dueling. With Form II, Dooku holds his own even against Master Yoda.
Known practitioners: Count Dooku, Exar Kun

Form III: Defender

The third great lightsaber discipline was first developed in response to the advancement of blaster technology in the galaxy. As these weapons spread widely into the hands of evil-doers, Jedi had to develop unique means of defending themselves. Form III thus arose from "laserblast" deflection training. Over the centuries it has transcended this origin to become a highly refined expression of non-aggressive Jedi philosophy. Form III maximizes defensive protection in a style characterized by tight, efficient movements that expose minimal target area compared to the relatively open style of some of the other Forms.

Obi-Wan Kenobi takes up a dedication to Form III after the death of Qui-Gon Jinn (who favored Form IV), since it was apparent to Kenobi that Jinn's defense was insufficient against the Sith techniques of Darth Maul. True Form III masters are considered invincible. Even in his elder years, Kenobi remains a formidable Form III practitioner.

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Even the extraordinarily deadly Jango Fett is unable to penetrate Obi-Wan Kenobi's superb lightsaber defenses.
Known practitioners: Obi-Wan Kenobi

Form IV: Swashbuckler

Form IV is the most acrobatic Form, heavily emphasizing Jedi abilities to run, jump, and spin in phenomenal ways by using the Force. Masters of Form IV incorporate all of the ways in which the Force helps them go beyond what is physically possible. Their lightsaber combat is astonishing to watch, filled with elaborate moves in the center of which a Jedi may be all but a blur. Yoda, with his deep emphasis on the Force in all things, is a Form IV master. Form IV was also the chosen discipline of Qui-Gon Jinn and the early choice of his apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi.

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Ordinarily Yoda walks with a slight limp, his ancient body wracked with arthritis and the normal infirmities of old age. In combat however, the diminutive Jedi Master presents extraordinary strength and reflexes - entirely the result of focusing the Force through his physical body and not just his spirit as is his usual emphasis.
Known practitioners: Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn

Form V: Crusader

During an era when Jedi were called upon to more actively maintain the peace in the galaxy, Form V arose alongside Form IV to address a need for greater power among the Jedi. Jedi Masters who felt that Form III could be too passive developed Form V. A Form III master might be undefeatable, but neither could he necessarily overcome his enemy. Form V focuses on strength and lightsaber attack moves. This Form exploits the ability of the lightsaber to block a blaster bolt and turns this defensive move into an offensive attack by deflecting the bolt deliberately towards an opponent. A dedication to the power and strength necessary to defeat an enemy characterizes the philosophy of Form V, which some Jedi describe by the maxim "peace through superior firepower." To some Jedi Knights, Form V represents a worthy discipline prepared for any threat; to others Form V seems to foster an inappropriate focus on dominating others.

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As the Clone War begins, Anakin Skywalker dedicates himself to Form V in his increasingly blind quest for strength. As Darth Vader he will still be using Form V when he confronts Obi-Wan Kenobi and later Luke Skywalker.
Known practitioners: Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker

Form VI: Diplomat

In the time of Palpatine's Chancellorship, Form VI is the current standard in Jedi lightsaber training. This Form balances the emphases of other Forms with overall moderation, in keeping with the Jedi quest to achieve true harmony and justice without resorting to the rule of power. It is considered the "diplomat's Form" because it is less intensive in its demands than the other disciplines, allowing Jedi to spend more time developing their skills in perception, political strategy, and negotiation.

In practice, Form VI is a combination of Forms I, III, IV, and V. Young Jedi spend their first few years studying Form I and then a year or two with each additional Form before completing their training. By comparison, a Form VI master will spend at least ten years studying only that Form after completing the basic Form I training. Form VI well suits the modern Jedi's role in the galaxy, in which a Knight overly trained in martial combat might be at a loss to resolve a complex political conflict between star systems. However, full masters of other Forms sometimes consider Form VI to be insufficiently demanding.

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In an increasingly dangerous galaxy, the "diplomat's Form" might not be enough against serious combat dangers. All the Form VI Jedi Knights who fight on Geonosis die in the arena battle.
Known practitioners: numerous Jedi, including those lost on Geonosis.

Form VII: Samurai

Only high-level masters of multiple Forms can achieve and control the ultimate descipline known as Form VII. This is the most difficult and demanding of all Forms, but it can eventually lead to fantastic power and skill. Form VII employs bold, direct movements, more open and kinetic than Form V but not so elaborate in appearance as Form IV.

In addition to very advanced Force-assisted jumps and movements, Form VII tactics overwhelm opponents with seemingly unconnected staccato sequences, making the Form highly unpredictable in battle. This trait makes for a much more difficult execution than the graceful, linked move sequences of Form IV. Form VII requires the intensity of Form V, but much greater energy since that focus is wielded more broadly. Form VII draws upon a deeper well of emotion than even Form V, yet masters it more fully. The outward bearing of a Form VII practitioner is one of calm, but the inner pressure verges on explosion.

Form VII is constantly under development since so few can achieve the necessary mastery to advance the art. As a result, it is typically specific to the master.

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Form VII master Mace Windu fights alongside Form III practitioner Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Battle of Geonosis. This spiritually dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith intensity of focus on physical combat ability. Mace Windu is one of the only current practitioners of Form VII.

Author Dr. David West Reynolds and fencer Jack 'Stelen' Bobo derived the 'in universe' principles of lightsaber combat based on the action that appears in all five Star Wars films to date. An importance notice to the reader: these Jedi histories are not stunt choreographies nor intructions from Episodes I and II Stunt Coordinator Nick Gillard, who developed the exciting sequences we see on screen. Do not attempt fencing without proper safety precautions and training.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

All right. Officially, the names are:


Form I: Shii-Cho (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_I:_Shii-Cho), The Determination Form, Way of the Sarlacc
Form II: Makashi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_II:_Makashi), The Contention Form, Way of the Ysalamiri
Form III: Soresu (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_III:_Soresu), The Resilience Form, Way of the Mynock
Form IV: Ataru (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV:_Ataru), The Aggression Form, Way of the Hawk-Bat
Form V: Shien / Djem So (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_V:_Shien_/_Djem_So)*, The Perseverence Form, Way of the Krayt Dragon
Form VI: Niman (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VI:_Niman), The Moderation Form, Way of the Rancor
Form VII: Juyo / Vaapad (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad)*, The Ferocity Form, Way of the Vornskr


*1: Shien and Djem So are very similar forms, using many of the same techniques, but with different goals. Shien is designed as a semi-defensive form, protecting against multiple opponents and blaster bolts while enabling the user to get in and 'get things done'. Djem So, on the other hand, is designed as a more offensive form for use against a single lightsaber wielder -- again, so as to enable the practitioner to move the combat forward to completion.

*2: Juyo had been a complete form at one time, but after the majority of its few practitioners were killed, it degenerated into a half-complete form. Mace Windu took it up and completed it, and students likening the form to a tentacled predator known for its speed and lethality nicknamed it 'Vaapad'.

If you have any interest in 'em, follow the links; good stuff, Maynard.

[pinecone]

:weep:

Love does not lead to fear of loss. Possessiveness leads to fear of loss, and fear leads to the Dark Side. Love != possessiveness.
I'd say that possessiveness leads to the Dark Side, shortcutting fear on that path, although I can't recall that appearing in any canon source, so treat that as just one balding white man's opinion.

If you want to say that being married exposes one to the temptation to be possessive (among other temptations), and exposing oneself to those temptations is incompatible with being a Jedi, fine.

Cool! so I can be a womanizing jerk, And a good Jedi! "I'm pregnant" Jedi Knight:"Good luck with that"

[Harrkonen]

One they do mention would be the Trial of the flesh. It was mentioned that Anakin Skywalker was no stranger to this test, I'm thinking that they are refering to the loss of his limb. Possibly some sort of pain tolerance test?

[Harrkonen]

Another mention to be mindful of regarding the styles is a Jedi Knight must be familiar with all the forms mentioned above and have mastered at least one of them. I've been using the Styles in my campaign lately and it's made a bit of a difference. Originally the PC characters had different but reletively similar Manuvers but after introducing this into the campaign setting they have a better feel for their individual approach to combat

Also many of the styles seem to share a philosphy (I know I spelled that wrong) With existing martial arts that fall into a deep psychological niche such as Kungfu. As a result we adopted manuvers from some of these and using Kenjutsu as a base with influences from Fencing created the various arts. In all retrospect they differ only slightly but the differences show greatly in combat.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

One they do mention would be the Trial of the flesh. It was mentioned that Anakin Skywalker was no stranger to this test, I'm thinking that they are refering to the loss of his limb. Possibly some sort of pain tolerance test?

Or a fight for your life. You cannot honestly know what a person will do or be, especially with the amount of power a Jedi can wield, until they've been in a high-stress potentially-lethal situation. That'd be my answer, anyhow.

[Harrkonen]

Actually Wyrm that's perfect. That sounds like the most probable idea as to what that test would be. A test to ensure that in said situation a Jedi would not call upon the Dark side as a ditch effort to gain the upper hand.

[Angelalex242]

Personally, I think Luke had the right of it in the EU. In the 6 movies, love proved itself stronger then both sides of the Force in Anakin. Love of wife turned him evil, love of son turned him good again. Luke would've learned a lesson from that, and thus decided to let Jedi benefit from the positive effects without making it a forbidden thing that could lead to the Dark Side.

[Harrkonen]

Personally, I think Luke had the right of it in the EU. In the 6 movies, love proved itself stronger then both sides of the Force in Anakin. Love of wife turned him evil, love of son turned him good again. Luke would've learned a lesson from that, and thus decided to let Jedi benefit from the positive effects without making it a forbidden thing that could lead to the Dark Side.

Emotions are a tool of the Darkside. As wrong and messed up as that sounds it's actually true. Normally love leads to desire which in turn leads to jealousy which in turn leads to anger etc...(I'm not gonna quote Yoda here) With the Dark side everything actually seems often times very much in the right to the user and he/she believes this will benifit either himself and/or others regardless of immediate and long term reprecussions of these actions.
The way of the Jedi teaches one to be able to Let go of things. Never let anything enter one's life that he will not be able to realease. Even Luke learned this lesson in time...(I'm not gonna say the exact event cause that would technically be a spoiler...)
While technically the Jedi code Never says that a Jedi is unable to love or caring it does register that a step too far is a mile going back. In other words it's easy to let damage occur but MUCH more difficult to restore it.

[SCUBA Hero]

Love of wife turned him evil, I'd say fear of losing his wife turned him evil, not love...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Emotions are a tool of the Darkside. As wrong and messed up as that sounds it's actually true. Normally love leads to desire which in turn leads to jealousy which in turn leads to anger etc...

Interesting philosophy, if sadly wrong. Simply put, the Jedi made the same mistake their Sith opposition did -- they went to an extreme. In the case of the Jedi, though, it was extreme personal isolation, which is exactly what you're recommending. Love, anger, passion -- all are powerful tools for the Force User. It is what you do with those tools that makes you good (Jedi) or evil (Sith). Great passion, shown brightly, can bring enlightenment and joy to billions; great passion, given to destruction, can bring death to those same billions.

A true Jedi can be compared to those who seek Zen enlightenment. That Zen, that 'emptiness', is a singular flash -- simultaneously encompassing a moment and forever. Who you are after the moment of enlightenment is not who you were before that moment; even though it is an instant later, it is a lifetime, an incarnation, apart. During the search for the Zen moment, however, the student and master both do what life requires; they chop wood, they carry water, they eat and drink, they love and marry and have children and get old and, well, eventually die. Life does not stop because they seek that moment; life does not stop because they have found it.

During that search, the Jedi learns to attune themselves to the universe, to the Universal Force. They learn to guide it and let it guide them; eventually, perhaps, some of them experience the moment of enlightenment, and it transforms them. Most of them do not, no matter how much they learn to guide the Force, or how much the Force can guide them. This does not stop them from yet seeking that moment.

I've not read all the books in the EU, though I've obviously seen all the movies. In the movies, I've seen nothing that makes me believe any of the Jedi portrayed to have experienced enlightenment. What I've read of the books, I can only say four -- Zonoma Sekot, Vergare, Anakin Solo, and Jacen Solo.

Both Zonoma Sekot (or rather its representative) seemed to contain the settled core and peaceful awareness I've come to associate with enlightenment; Vergare, though she certainly seemed to have played politics with grace and viciousness, held the same inner core and awareness. Anakin Solo gained that core, that awareness, and a unifying and consuming channeling of the Force during his last battle with the Yuuzhang Vong; Jacen Solo (Anakin's long-time practice partner) achieved a similar core and awareness during his last battle as well, though his unifying channeling of the Force was fortunately not so all-consuming as Anakin's.

A Jedi seeks the ah-ness of that moment, the deep understanding of the universe, the instant of emptiness within which is the sum total and distinct individualism of all things. The knowledge and power of the Force is a secondary thing to that search, a form of practice and seeking that dims in comparison to enlightenment. A Sith, on the other hand, seeks but the knowledge and the power of the Force itself.

For a Jedi, the Force is the journey, not the goal.
For a Sith, the Force is the goal, not the journey.

But I bet you that Jedi write a lot of haiku...

A dark lightsaber
Cold and heavy in my hand
Why do I have it?