Universal Translator and Cyphers

[Psylint]

Would you allow a character with Universal Translator to get the sense of an encyphered message? For clarity, a cypher is a system of substituting symbols for other symbols, e.g. 313, might be a cypher for DAD, where 3 = D and 1 = A. By contrast a code is when the meaning of a word has a private or special meaning, like "Eagle" the traditional code name, least as far as Hollywood is concerned, for the President of the United States.

Peace

[Derek Hiemforth]

Would you allow a character with Universal Translator to get the sense of an encyphered message?No. A cypher is not a means of communication. Just the opposite... a cypher is a means of preventing communication. ;)

However, I might allow someone to build a sort of "Super-Cryptography" ability using Universal Translator as a model, which would allow them to get a sense of any kind of encrypted, cyphered, endcoded, etc. message (as long as both the "code" and the real message were in Languages the character understood). But that would its own ability... I wouldn't include that in the "normal" Universal Translator.

[Balabanto]

Yeah, if a guy says "The Cheese is Refined at Midnight" and what he really means is "Meet me at the Opera House at Seven," your character would have no way of knowing this, really.

[Sketchpad]

I agree with Derek, maybe check out the Ultimate Skill and create something like Universal Cipher as a variant on Universal Translator :)

[McCoy]

Would you allow a character with Universal Translator to get the sense of an encyphered message?


No. A cypher is not a means of communication. Just the opposite... a cypher is a means of preventing communication. ;)
I disagree. A cyper is an atempt at a private communication, a message Alex sends to Betty that they don't want Cindy to intercept.

If Cindy has universal translator, I don't see the difference between a cypher and any other unknown language. Worst case, i would allow universal translator to boos a decription skill.

Agree codes are a different issue.

[transmetahuman]

It would depend on the SFX... and there aren't a lot of SFX for a truly universal translator ability, that works on written stuff, that make sense. Akashic access or picking up psychic vibes left by the writer might let you decipher or even decode. "Super pattern recognition" probably should; after all that's how they break ciphers in real life. A limited UT "Only for languages in this vast database" obviously wouldn't. A spell of translation might go either way. I'm having a hard time reaching for other SFX; it's always been a tough one.

[Derek Hiemforth]

I disagree. A cyper is an atempt at a private communication, a message Alex sends to Betty that they don't want Cindy to intercept.

If Cindy has universal translator, I don't see the difference between a cypher and any other unknown language.The difference is that with a "regular" language, Alex is actually saying to Betty what he wants Betty to hear. (Or writing to her what he wants her to read, etc.) He's trying to make himself understood to anyone who hears the message, even if they don't have the secret decoder ring that gives the key to the cypher.

I'm reminded of the "Court Martial" episode of Star Trek, TOS. Cogley realizes Ben Finney is still alive and hiding aboard the Enterprise, and asks Kirk whether a man could evade "a phase one search" (or whatever it was). He says, "Such a search assumes, does it not, that a man wants to be found? He isn't hiding."

Likewise, normal communication (which is what Universal Translator helps you understand) assumes that the meaning being spoken is intended to be "found". The meaning isn't "hiding." With a cypher, the meaning is "hiding." :)

(All IMO, of course.)

[McCoy]

The difference is that with a "regular" language, Alex is actually saying to Betty what he wants Betty to hear. (Or writing to her what he wants her to read, etc.) He's trying to make himself understood to anyone who hears the message, even if they don't have the secret decoder ring that gives the key to the cypher.

I'm reminded of the "Court Martial" episode of Star Trek, TOS. Cogley realizes Ben Finney is still alive and hiding aboard the Enterprise, and asks Kirk whether a man could evade "a phase one search" (or whatever it was). He says, "Such a search assumes, does it not, that a man wants to be found? He isn't hiding."

Likewise, normal communication (which is what Universal Translator helps you understand) assumes that the meaning being spoken is intended to be "found". The meaning isn't "hiding." With a cypher, the meaning is "hiding." :)

(All IMO, of course.)
Might also depend on the Sx of the Universal Translator.

So there you are Psylint, one says no, another says yes. Hope one of those was the one you wanted.

[Clonus]

Yeah, if a guy says "The Cheese is Refined at Midnight" and what he really means is "Meet me at the Opera House at Seven," your character would have no way of knowing this, really.

That's a code, not a cypher.

[Psylint]

I'm with Clonus.

While a universal translator wouldn't know in Balbanto's example that "The Cheese is Refined at Midnight" meant "Meet me at the Opera House at Seven" the universal translator should be able to understand the cheese part even if it was

"Le frommage est fabrique a minuit." (sorry early, my french is off today)

or if it were in binary

01101001001110100101111000101010100101001010010111 01010100101010100011111

or if it were in Pig Latin

"He-tay Heese-Kay is Efined-ray at Idnight-may"

He'd have no idea about opera houses, 7 o'clock or meeting, but he'd get that there was something about the cheese at midnight.



D'uh... There it is, should a universal translator be able to under the content of a message in "Pig-Latin?" if so then at least some cyphers are fair game as Pig Latin isn't a language but a simple substitution cypher.

Peace