Simple question (I hope)

[Mestopheles]

Hey all-

I want to make a character resistant to mental attack, scan, PRE attacks, and whatnot, with the justification being their mind is so alien that conventional EGO-based attacks "miss" it's differently-oriented mind.

What I'm thinking is this:
Mental Defense (SFX: alien mind) and
EGO/PRE (only to resist PRE attacks, etc.)
And call it done. Am I missing anything?

[Talon]

Under the standard rules, I would just buy EGO "only for DECV and to resist PRE attacks", which is probably in the -1/2 to -1/4 range unless the character has a use for OECV (i.e., Mental Powers).

[Mestopheles]

Thanks, I think I'd ask fewer dumb questions like this is I had HD on my terminal at work.

[L. Marcus]

. . . Why not just say that the character belongs to the Alien Class of Minds, and then buy PRE, Only To Resist PRE Attacks to cover the rest of the abilities.

[DocSamson]

If the mind is so alien, you may want to just say it's an alien mind (as opposed to human, animal, or machine). With GM approval, that may make the character immune to mental powers that effect human minds.

For PRE Attacks I would use the old standby, + PRE, Only for Defense (-1) and maybe, Only Vs. Humans (-0).

[DocSamson]

Holy cow, Marcus must have beaten my by a split second.

[L. Marcus]

Hah! It's all in the reflexes! :D

[Mestopheles]

I need to read up on what "Alien class of minds" actually means in game terms, but that sounds like a pretty simple option. Just for my edification, would a character with an "alien class" mind be unable to affect humans with mental attacks? If an "alien mind" mentalist could affect humans, shouldn't those attacks have an advantage that is the equivalent of "attacks useable while desolidified"?

[DocSamson]

I need to read up on what "Alien class of minds" actually means in game terms, but that sounds like a pretty simple option. Just for my edification, would a character with an "alien class" mind be unable to affect humans with mental attacks? If an "alien mind" mentalist could affect humans, shouldn't those attacks have an advantage that is the equivalent of "attacks useable while desolidified"?

When you spend points in a mental power, you have to choose what class of minds it affects (i.e. human, animal, machine, or alien). The default is human. Those with mental powers not bought to affect aliens will not be able to affect the character. There is also an advantage that can be taken to allow the mental power to affect multiple classes of minds.

[Hugh Neilson]

CAVEAT: I detest the "classes of minds" rules.

The concept is that each mental power affects one of the four default classes of minds, either "Human", "Alien", "Animal" or "Machine". Adders would allow other classes to be affected as well.

The rules or FAQ (forget which) recommends that no PC be permitted to NOT be in the Human class, although they could take a disadvantage making them ALSO another class of minds. Why? Because being "Alien Class" means virtual immunity to mental attacks in the game.

To me, the fact that this would mean virtual immunity implies making it free is a significant undercosting. The concept that all humans and most non-human species are so similar that they all get affected together, but there is only one "alien" category also doesn't feel right. To say nothing of the relative utility of mental powers that only affect Human minds vs those that only affect Alien minds...

[Mestopheles]

CAVEAT: I detest the "classes of minds" rules...

I see your objections and I think they're valid; what would you suggest to reflect the "I'm too alien for you to understand my mind" SFX without the "alien class of mind" solution?

[Lord Liaden]

IMO the thing about the "alien class of mind" tack is that, to justify it, your character should really be so different in its thinking processes that it doesn't react to its environment and other beings in ways most humans can understand (and probably has Disadvantages reflecting that, helping to compensate for its advantage against most Mental Powers). While that may work for certain types of NPCs, it's much harder to support for a PC who's part of a group and has to work with them.

[Mestopheles]

Ah, this is an NPC I'm thinking of, just want to make sure I'm not tossing unwarranted power at him just cause I'm the GM and noone can veto the build.

[Sean Waters]

Can I suggest that you buy extra levels with EGO for breakout rolls only. That is probably a 2 point level. It does not stop anyone getting to you, but is sure as...er...something other than what I was going to type...stops them holding on. And it is pretty cheap. 10 points gives you +5 with breakout rolls. Even with an EGO of 10, that is 16- (minus Effect/5 over the required level of effect).

That is pretty good for an alien mind: you know it is there, you just can't hold on to the damn thing.

Oh and I detest the 'Class of Mind' rules too: go Hugh!

Actually, not detest as such, but I'd re-write them a lot. An alien class of mind is a good idea: I mean if you have a plant based Hero, then they should probably not work mentally the same way a (non-plant) based Hero would. However, in Hero terms what we should be doing (IMO) is assuming that mental powers affect all classes of mind and have a table of limitations if it does not. Only affects humans (in most campaigns) would be -1/4, for example.

Then it is up to the player buying the power what the power can do, not the munchkin seeking mental attack immunity for free (I don't have mental powers, but I belong to the Shlogimesh class of mind, and I'm the last fo my species....).

Actually, as GM, I'd make damn sure that the last Slogimesh did not hear the telepathic call to get outside the blast radius of The Ultimate Nullifier.

**THINKS**"OK, everybody, when I tell you, take one step back..."

Did I ever tell you how vindictive I can be?

[Hugh Neilson]

I see your objections and I think they're valid; what would you suggest to reflect the "I'm too alien for you to understand my mind" SFX without the "alien class of mind" solution?

Sean's suggestion of bonus breakout rolls works. Mental defense works. Mental Damage Reduction plays havoc with attacks that need "Ego + X". Extra Ego and/or PRE, perhaps limited to only working for defense, works.

[L. Marcus]

. . . There's so much that works!

[Mestopheles]

Thanks guys, I think I've got it now. You all are really helpful; I'm really glad I got myself a login :)

[L. Marcus]

. . . And now you're HOOKED!!!

Moahahahahaaah!!!

. . . Erm . . .

. . . Sorry 'bout that.