Create a NEW Zodiac

[Checkmate]

I have recently moved, and in the move I found a bunch of my old Champs books. One of these was the Zodiac Conspiracy. This inspired me to come up with my own Zodiac.

While trying to think of things, I kept falling into the same stereotypes. Taurus- bull man, Virgo - Egoist etc.

So I figured I'd try here. Does anyone have any creative ideas for power sets for the 12 members of the Zodiac?

As an example of what I'm looking for, a past GM of mine once had us fight The Elementals. The Water Elemental was a human depth charge (his body would blow up), and his earth elemental would change into a Bulldozer. So let's get creative!

[Captain Liberty]

One thought would be to re-imagine already existing Champions villains as newly-recruited Zodiac members. Assume that some mystical artifact is creating a new Zodiac. For instance, think of the Amazing Bulldozer as Taurus.

Or what if Doctor Destroyer decided to create his own Zodiac, using already existent villains?

[Cancer]

In classical astrology, the zodiacal signs also map to the combinations of earth/air/water/fire with cardinal/mutable/fixed.

Alternately, take a different great circle in the sky (rather than the ecliptic) and use the constellations that are on that. This may be operationally difficult, but it's easy to see several such alternatives: the celestial equator, the Galactic equator, and the various lines of constant RA (that is, the circles perpendicular to the equator). That could give you a different set of images from which to draw, though those might be problematic.

[braincraft]

For another game (not HERO), I had a group consisting of superpowered masterminds representing the Chinese zodiac. It shouldn't be too hard to port them over to HERO.

[Checkmate]

Thanks for the ideas, but that's not really what I want to do. I want to take the 12 zodiac signs and make new characters with that as a basis. I'm really looking for interesting ways to do the original 12.

[casualplayer]

Taurus, instead of actually being a bull, could be a rodeo star or an aggressive financier. Ares could actually be a skilled and circumspect martial artist rather than the brute squad. Cancer could be a college professor, maybe even a physicist. :D Aquarius could be a shapeshifter or aquakinetic.

Just having actual, complete write-ups of the concepts of the original Zodiac would be a thrill. I suggested it many moons ago to Steve though and he said there may be problems with the rights. Infringement or some such lawyerly stuff.

[Checkmate]

Taurus, instead of actually being a bull, could be a rodeo star or an aggressive financier.[/quote ]
I like the rodeo star that's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
[quote=casualplayer;1444054]Ares could actually be a skilled and circumspect martial artist rather than the brute squad. Cancer could be a college professor, maybe even a physicist. :D Aquarius could be a shapeshifter or aquakinetic.
I still want it to fit Ares either the name or "personality". I mean when a player sees the power set they go "Oh yeah Ares"

Just having actual, complete write-ups of the concepts of the original Zodiac would be a thrill. I suggested it many moons ago to Steve though and he said there may be problems with the rights. Infringement or some such lawyerly stuff.
Yeah I really like the book (made better by the COLOR art in the middle). The write ups weren't really anything spectacular, but the whole thing just sits well with me.

[Captain Liberty]

I used the Zodiac book in my Golden Age campaign. They were still on the same timeline, so several members were not yet present. As I recall, only Taurus, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces were present by the Golden Age. I may be forgetting one. Most of the stories in my campaign had to do with the Zodiac trying to recruit other people to the vacant positions. They actually did recruit one of the female PCs to the Virgo position.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Cancer was already in place in the Golden Age.

[casualplayer]

I used the Zodiac book in my Golden Age campaign. They were still on the same timeline, so several members were not yet present. As I recall, only Taurus, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces were present by the Golden Age. I may be forgetting one. Most of the stories in my campaign had to do with the Zodiac trying to recruit other people to the vacant positions. They actually did recruit one of the female PCs to the Virgo position.
EDIT: Oh yeah, Cancer was already in place in the Golden Age.

Heh. My group met Zodiac for the first time when they were trying to recruit someone to be the new Pisces (the original was killed by her own people,) a shapeshifter who had a preference for aquatic mammal forms but wasn't restricted to them. She ended up joining the team rather than Zodiac.

There's an idea for you for Pisces, a cetacean shapeshifter.

[mattingly]

I like the rodeo star that's the sort of thing I'm looking for.
How about making him more like the mythical minotaur? Give him a labyrinth base, and a puzzle fixation. Imagine the Riddler as a brick with a big axe.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Why does he have to be a brick, though?

This is the point, I think, that Checkmate is trying to get past -- everyone keeps making them like the animal representations, instead of digging their fingers into the psychological aspect of the zodiac.

Each constellation of the Zodiac is a combination of different pieces -- four elements, three qualities, and three social aspects. Let's just take Taurus as our first example, since we're dwelling on him.

Taurus is a fixed personal earth sign. 'Earth' means he represents material resources, personal possessions, and the environment around him. He's a stable and practical individual. 'Personal' means that he's typically concerned with himself, which when combined with his Earth cautiousness and protectiveness, means that his responsibilities are HIS responsibilities; to fail or abandon them is to fail or abandon himself. He's also a fixed sign, which means he's very focussed, very individual, and somewhat inflexible.

So how's this relate?

Suitable occupations considered for the Taurus are where perseverance, practicality and responsibility are awarded,and security is available; such as builders, farmers, bankers, civil servants, accountants and artistic pursuits, especially singing and sculpture. I, personally, would make Taurus an 'earth manipulator' -- someone who has a deep, personal connection with stone and rock, who can feel its problems and takes those difficulties for his own. He possibly uses these talents to find the earth's riches, and he may well be the fundraiser / bankroller for the people. If you KNOW you have a $300 million timonium deposit just inside that mountain there, and you know the best way to get to it ... why not make use of that, to provide you and yours with the security they need? And he can get those creative urges out by sculpting stone with his bare hands.

How about the Ram?

Aries is a fire sign, meaning an Aries is associated with action, passion, energy, focus, and prosperity. It is associated with the quality of being a 'cardinal', which is to say that initiation, creativity, organization, and leadership is associated with the sign. Finally, Aries is a personal sign -- those of this sign are typically concerned with themselves, which also means that though they pursue personal pleasures, interests, and interactions, they see interactions as though they were dealing with themselves -- a lie, to Aries, is like lying to himself.

So what's this all mean?

Aries is a dynamic, powerful leader, a natural organizer, a driven individual whose viewpoint on others is always in relation to herself. 'Suitable occupations are where initiative and enterprise are needed, and preferably physical activity; such as soldiers, surgeons, engineers, sportspeople and explorers.' She'll be a good field commander for the Zodiac, might be a speedster, a gadgeteer / power suit, or a martial artist, and will probably be somewhat more concerned about 'the job' then about how the rest of the Zodiac sees her. It isn't 'the job' or 'a job', it's 'my job'. She'll chafe at any 'oversight' pressed upon her by 'the desk boss', and will likely be very willing to change plans in the middle of the mission if the new plan has a notably higher chance of success.

Continue as appropriate. :)

[Checkmate]

Thanks Wyrm this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

[Lord Liaden]

You might find some inspiration in the alternate Zodiac members that our own ghost_archer created for his excellent Wild Hunt campaign: http://the-wild-hunt.org/villains/zodiac/index.html

(Do explore the rest of his campaign website, it's pretty cool.) :cool:

[Hermit]

One objective this New Zodiac might have would be to get rid of the Taurus that already exists in the 5th Ed Champions Universe, and I believe there is a Pieces as well

[Balabanto]

Well, I'm working on a project for Legacies/Digital Hero that embraces that, I've shown Dave a shell, and since it's just a shell, you guys can see it too.

The Zodiac

“Under the Sun, We Shall Rule this World”

“Hit the message I can hear you calling
No one's going anywhere tonight
We conceived a modern generation
It was free but now we pay the price
We're the victims of our own creation
Chasing rainbows that are painted black or white
Watch the struggle of our own temptation
Instincts barely keeping us alive…”

-Voices of Babylon, The Outfield

Pisces, The Fishes-Princess of Piranhas

Aries, The Ram- Mutant Speedster, Absorbs Hydrogen

Taurus, The Bull-Magician, Words of Power, Rune of Shapechange, Apparent Leader

Gemini, The Twins-Mentalist

Cancer, The Crab-Teleportation, Entangle, Strength, Armor,

Leo, The Lion-Roar, Presence, Nobility, Honor, …Yvaine, Knight of the Lion

Virgo, The Maiden-Armor, Spikes, Martial Arts

Libra, The Scales-Power Mimic, Up to the level of Opponent. Suppress Powers of opponent to weaken them.

Scorpius, The Scorpion-Doctor Scorpius II. No changes necessary. Power Her Down a Touch

Saggitarius, The Archer-Change Background, use Longbow, Make a New Archer. (There's really no way around this one)

Capricornus, The Sea Goat-Mutant, Desintegration, Swimming, Energy Conversion/Absorption,

Aquarius, The Water Carrier-Male Water Sorcerer, in Hibernation Since the Days of Atlantis

Note: If run right, your PC's should only see this character once or twice. Taurus should APPEAR to be the real leader of the group, no one should realize it's actually a 13 sign Babylonian Zodiac until very late in the game.


Ophiuchus, The Serpent Bearer-Many Names, Strength, Wisdom, Tactics, Rulership, Mentalism, Charisma, Forbidden Knowledge, Healing…Real Leader…Gilgamesh, Son of Marduk,…

[Checkmate]

Some nice ideas there, thanks. Let us know what DH issue this is going to be in, I'd be interested in checking it out.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

I suddenly had a rebellious thought about Sagittarius:

"You just shot him with a honkin' huge AGM!! I thought you were a bloody archer!!"
"Hey, that wasn't just any air-to-ground missile. That was a Hellfire AGM-114, typically utilized by the AH-64F Apache helicopter."
"What the heck does that mean?!?"
"It was a Longbow's arrow." *nasty laughter*

[Checkmate]

I suddenly had a rebellious thought about Sagittarius:

"You just shot him with a honkin' huge AGM!! I thought you were a bloody archer!!"
"Hey, that wasn't just any air-to-ground missile. That was a Hellfire AGM-114, typically utilized by the AH-64F Apache helicopter."
"What the heck does that mean?!?"
"It was a Longbow's arrow." *nasty laughter*
Brilliant. Oddly enough I was just thinking back to Robotech/Battletech and remembering one of the Mecha was called an Archer (Robotech I believe), so was thinking about going that route.

[CorPse]

Finding a new zodiac might shake up your preconceptions.

I've got a great book/box called The Lost Zodiac by Catherine Tennant. It's a book that comes in a box with a set of cards for the ancient Greek signs. (These are the signs that the more modern 12 sign zodiac is based on.)

There are 22 ancient signs. Some of them are familiar, but then there are others: Corvus (The Raven), Draco (The Dragon), Auriga (The Charioteer), Eridanus (The River of Night), etc.

[Lord Liaden]

One thing that always bothered me about the 4E Zodiac was that, for a group with aspirations to world domination, they had very little in the way of support organization "on the ground" to carry out their plans and enforce their will. Considering that several of its members had been active for decades, centuries and even millennia, I would have expected them to have developed extensive networks that would qualify as a true "Zodiac Conspiracy."

When I used the Zodiac I made most of their individual members people of stature and influence in the world in their own rights, so that the Zodiac was less of a supervillain team and more of a council of masterminds (although they would still work together as a team when necessary).

[CorPse]

One thing that always bothered me about the 4E Zodiac was that, for a group with aspirations to world domination, they had very little in the way of support organization "on the ground" to carry out their plans and enforce their will. Considering that several of its members had been active for decades, centuries and even millennia, I would have expected them to have developed extensive networks that would qualify as a true "Zodiac Conspiracy."

I wonder if this has more to do with, I don't know exactly how to put this, the level of sophistication of a lot of the fourth edition support materials. A lot of those older books lacked the depth and thoughtfulness that you're talking about, because you bring up a great point! If memory serves, unless it was an organization book (Viper, etc.) you weren't going to get many or any organization details.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

If it's going to be a real 'Zodiac Conspiracy' which is designed to take over the world, then some of your people -- Leo and Virgo, for example -- may not be combat individuals at all. Someone might run the campaign to influence and dominate political figures and work in the legal realm, while another person may be the CFO of the entire enterprise -- and may simply be a code-name, not even the same person from year to year depending on the fortunes of the market or what sector or type of business/market the conspiracy has deigned to go after at the moment. Industrial metals at one point, computer hardware at another, marketplace penetration at some other.

The question then becomes, 'is there a particular aspect of the world that the Zodiac are looking to corner the market of, or are they trying to get everything?' Do they want to acquire the world's mystic power? Unite all of humanity under one religion? One government? One 'business model'?? All of the above?

Despite previous RL and comic models to the contrary (the Mafia, the Yakuza, Hydra, the Hand, Viper, etc.) everyone knows that nobody really winds up managing to 'control the world' via a criminal enterprise. The Zodiac will probably have Powers on the payroll; they will probably have people in military operations trained in everything from the personal scale up to overthrowing 'non-preferred' governments and small-scale open warfare. And, of course, when you arrest code-name Aries (the field commander, remember?) at the end of a sucessful coup, who're you going to turn her over to? The old, deposed government? The new government, which the Scorpio elements of the conspiracy has prepared to take over and into whose ears they are whispering? The United States? The UN??


Old Deposed Government is no longer in power, and though they may protest that they're still the legal authority there, any action taken by them is both legally and morally suspect.
New Puppet Government is going to thank you, and give Aries a medal and a nice reward.
The US has no legal jursidiction, while ...
The UN MAY have jurisdiction, but if the Leo elements of the conspiracy have been hard at work, then the New Puppet Government may already be recognized by several other nations -- and thus the UN has to let them go, because after all, the new government says that it's a popular revolution (or whatever), and Aries is not a criminal.


Having twelve (or thirteen) guys in suits makes it an awful lot easier to defeat. Having twelve or thirteen thousand people, 75% of them in the civilian sector, working behind the scenes, makes it tougher to shut down the whole thing -- and definitely makes them a top competitor in the 'Race for Global Domination'. Pshaw -- Dr. Destroyer only has DestroyerBots. The Zodiac has a legal team. Much more frightening.

[CorPse]

Hey don't let Destroyer hear you say that... he'll want to lawyer-up, too!

[nHammer]

I have recently moved, and in the move I found a bunch of my old Champs books. One of these was the Zodiac Conspiracy. This inspired me to come up with my own Zodiac.

While trying to think of things, I kept falling into the same stereotypes. Taurus- bull man, Virgo - Egoist etc.

So I figured I'd try here. Does anyone have any creative ideas for power sets for the 12 members of the Zodiac?

As an example of what I'm looking for, a past GM of mine once had us fight The Elementals. The Water Elemental was a human depth charge (his body would blow up), and his earth elemental would change into a Bulldozer. So let's get creative!

How about Scorpio as a shrinking character with a Variable Advantage/Special Effects Energy Blast?

[Enforcer84]

If it's going to be a real 'Zodiac Conspiracy' which is designed to take over the world, then some of your people -- Leo and Virgo, for example -- may not be combat individuals at all. Someone might run the campaign to influence and dominate political figures and work in the legal realm, while another person may be the CFO of the entire enterprise -- and may simply be a code-name, not even the same person from year to year depending on the fortunes of the market or what sector or type of business/market the conspiracy has deigned to go after at the moment. Industrial metals at one point, computer hardware at another, marketplace penetration at some other.

The question then becomes, 'is there a particular aspect of the world that the Zodiac are looking to corner the market of, or are they trying to get everything?' Do they want to acquire the world's mystic power? Unite all of humanity under one religion? One government? One 'business model'?? All of the above?

Despite previous RL and comic models to the contrary (the Mafia, the Yakuza, Hydra, the Hand, Viper, etc.) everyone knows that nobody really winds up managing to 'control the world' via a criminal enterprise. The Zodiac will probably have Powers on the payroll; they will probably have people in military operations trained in everything from the personal scale up to overthrowing 'non-preferred' governments and small-scale open warfare. And, of course, when you arrest code-name Aries (the field commander, remember?) at the end of a sucessful coup, who're you going to turn her over to? The old, deposed government? The new government, which the Scorpio elements of the conspiracy has prepared to take over and into whose ears they are whispering? The United States? The UN??


Old Deposed Government is no longer in power, and though they may protest that they're still the legal authority there, any action taken by them is both legally and morally suspect.
New Puppet Government is going to thank you, and give Aries a medal and a nice reward.
The US has no legal jursidiction, while ...
The UN MAY have jurisdiction, but if the Leo elements of the conspiracy have been hard at work, then the New Puppet Government may already be recognized by several other nations -- and thus the UN has to let them go, because after all, the new government says that it's a popular revolution (or whatever), and Aries is not a criminal.


Having twelve (or thirteen) guys in suits makes it an awful lot easier to defeat. Having twelve or thirteen thousand people, 75% of them in the civilian sector, working behind the scenes, makes it tougher to shut down the whole thing -- and definitely makes them a top competitor in the 'Race for Global Domination'. Pshaw -- Dr. Destroyer only has DestroyerBots. The Zodiac has a legal team. Much more frightening.
Where's the fun in that? Hey we beat up Corrupt Lawyers today!
Zodiac Conspiracy?
Nope! Leonard, Walker, And Spitz. They looked at us funny.

Weeee.

:D


I keed. It sounds more threatening but better for a non Capes campaign; IMO.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Where's the fun in that? ... It sounds more threatening but better for a non Capes campaign; IMO.

Partially true. I didn't say there'd be NO capes/mooks/whatever involved. Again, you have to determine what the Zodiac Conspiracy is after. I would recommend that they be after mystical power as well as temporal -- because with the Mystical Power angle, there are always going to be Magic Footballs -- things that they're going to be after, which they may not be able to get in a legal manner.

This leads to 'break-in at the museum' or 'death of a collector' scenarios, or even a mid-air robbery of a cargo plane. Whodunit? Those dastardly Zodiac folk!! And while your Flying Brick is happy to pound the snot out of his superpowered foes, the Dark Detective in the group is also happily working on the fact that there's more to the plot than meets the eye. Remember -- just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right. And heroes are meant to do what's right, not necessarily what's legal.

Besides, if you also have DEMON or whomever, and you've demonstrated that overall domination by the Zodiac would be 'not as bad' as overall domination by DEMON, then you can have Zodiac approaching the heros to say, 'DEMON has this big ritual happening to siphon a large portion of the world's power to them. They need to be stopped, but neither of us are powerful enough on our own to stop them. Let's fight them together!!'

Of course, Zodiac has a nearly-identical ritual happening somewhere else, designed to siphon the power to THEM, and they don't want competition at the critical moment, so .... :)

[Captain Liberty]

For other Zodiac ideas, I cannot recommend The Zodiac Ring from Lame Mage Productions highly enough. This is an M&M scenario available in PDF for very little, and posits a set of Zodiac characters who are not necessarily all evil, but all are true to their zodiac mindsets. Sagitarrius, for instance, is not an archer. He's a luck-controlling con man. Taurus is not a mastermind, just a brick (with nary a horn in sight), and Leo and Aries are both fire manipulators, though very different ones. Capricorn is an earth elementalist, Aquarius a power dampener, etc.

Check it out. It has become one of the central storylines of my M&M campaign. Easily adapted to Champions.

[MPT]

For different zodiacs ...

The Japanese version - http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa100498.htm - uses 12 animals.

The Mayan version - http://www.art-poster-online.com/mayan_zodiac_animals.html - uses 13 animals.

The Celtic version - http://www.novareinna.com/constellation/celtic.html - allocates a Tree, Gemstone, Flower, Celestial Body, Deity and animal to each of 12 signs.

The Galactic version - http://www.saros.zynet.co.uk/ingalast.html - is relatively new and uses symbols such as Law, Nurture & Trade.

[Querysphinx]

I remember many moons ago I ran a Zodiac Conspiracy bunch of super powers BG's, and some of them were decidedly non standard interpretations.

Pisces: A mind-meld-to-machines computer hacker. The internet was her ocean and she was the big fish.

Gemini: A shape shifting power mimic who had forgotten his own identity. He becomes your twin.

Virgo: A body jacker with no physical body of her own. (It was funny when she and Gemini would tag team a hero, now suddenly the PCs are fighting two copies of the same friend)

[Drhoz]

Well, I'm working on a project for Legacies/Digital Hero that embraces that, I've shown Dave a shell, and since it's just a shell, you guys can see it too.

The Zodiac

Note: If run right, your PC's should only see this character once or twice. Taurus should APPEAR to be the real leader of the group, no one should realize it's actually a 13 sign Babylonian Zodiac until very late in the game.


Ophiuchus, The Serpent Bearer-Many Names, Strength, Wisdom, Tactics, Rulership, Mentalism, Charisma, Forbidden Knowledge, Healing…Real Leader…Gilgamesh, Son of Marduk,…

what, no Arachne, the Psychic? :D


Arachne the Spider. This arises from the Druidic calendar containing 13 signs, where Arachne is contained between Taurus and Gemini. In this tradition the Sun enters Arachne on May 16th and leaves it on June 13th. It is said to be the sign of the “Psychic”. If you would like to know more the little book “The Thirteenth Zodiac The Sign of Arachne” by James Vogh

Of course, Vogh invented the whole thing and was apparently delighted when people started taking it seriously.

[ThothAmon]

Must confess I liked the idea of the original Zodiac group but also felt that they fell short in many ways, both in terms of concept and abilities write-ups.

As written Taurus was my favourite for the background concept, a really clever idea that just needed a little tidying up. I thought I detected the influence of Fred Sabherhagen's 'The White Bull'. The original Gemini also had potential. Most of the others were, well, misconceived and didn't really fit the alleged astrological personalities.

I like the idea of using the rejected 13th sign - it's the John Varley fan in me. When this article appears please announce it here :)

[TheQuestionMan]

The Zodiac Conspiracy: Debugged by Derek Hiemforth
http://rhinobunny.com/derek/champions/zodiac.html


Hmmm...


QM

[Princedarkstorm]

It would great to see a new version of the ZODIAC or a updates of the ZODIAC !

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

I'm ... thinking about this...