Looking for a online fantasy game

[Shakram]

Hey there guys I am looking for a online hero system fantasy game. I am well versed in dungeons and dragons but am begging to feel very unsatisfied with the extreme restrictions.

I want to play hero games to experience more freedom with my charcters.
I like the ideas of having super heros in a fantasy setting without limiting them to classes levels and feats.

I have a greater interest in fantasy because I think it's a much more interesting world full of unique heros, wizards, psions, warriors, mutants, cosmic beings, accidents, aliens, magical artifacts, technology... etc.

I would one day like to DM but first I need to get a better grasp of the rules. Being a player would be really fun, and I look foward to playing online with new friends.

So all this being said is there a link to a website that hosts hero games online?
I currently have the champions 4th edition book & Ultimate super mage plus a fantasy beastary.
Any info that could get me playing would be much appreciated Thanks!

[Killer Shrike]

You should try www.herocentral.net for online Play By Post.

You may find the D&D 3e to HERO System conversion (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/conversion3e.aspx) on my website useful for general info...

[Shakram]

Does anyone know any games that would invite in a new guy?

I am really interested in having a variable power pool charcter, that can learn new spells and powers he sees. Without all the incantations gestures or limits of D&D. The spellthief and erudite from D&D are interesting builds, because they can learn new powers. I also dislike the level system and would prefer the charcter to have something like absorption or transfer to increase power levels.

Here's something someone recomended(I would love to do this in a fantasy campaign):
Let's take the example of the cosmic power pool:

1. You decide how much the biggest power you want to have should cost, which will set your pool size. Let us assume we are going for 40 points, which allows us to buy pretty much any power in the game.

2. You pay for the pool: 40 points in this case. Put that on your character sheet.

3. You then need a control cost which is half the pool cost, 20 points in this case.

4. You add advantages or limitations to the control cost: in this case 'cosmic' (0 phase to change powers, no roll) is +2, so we pay 20 x (2+1) = 60 points.

[Killer Shrike]

That is how a VPP works, and HERO has no levels, its a point based game. XP = Character Points you then use to buy the abilities you want (and the GM allows).

However, I would strongly recommend against a player new to the system playing a Cosmic VPP character, even assuming you could find a GM that would allow it. VPP's are one of the most difficult aspects of the HERO System. It's like throwing a baby that just started swimming into a storm tossed ocean and expecting them to swim for shore. Its not a good idea. A more limited VPP -- not 0 Phase Change No Skill Roll (i.e. -- not Do Whatever You Want), that had a good balance between flexibility and game stability is doable if you are a fast study, but even still I would be cautious combining newbie + VPP.


Having said that, I do provide a few Magic Systems on my website that are VPP based, with varying levels of limitedness.

If you look at this document here and follow the links: Magic Systems (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/ShrikeMagicSystems.aspx), the Vancian Magic System presents two variations on a VPP system, one to model the Prepared casting style you are familiar with in D&D, and another a looser approach halfway between Prepared and Spontaneous that I call Gestalt. The Loremastery Magic System models the new edition of the Warhammer Fantasy RPG and uses a VPP, but its a lower, more limited and dangerous form of Magic than what you are used to from D&D. Adeptology on the other hand is a basically Cosmic VPP with some limitations on what types of powers are allowed and some mandatory casting limitations; a few variations are given on the central mechanic. You might also want to look at Spellweaving which is Skill based but works very much like a limited VPP in practice -- you buy a Skill for each base power (like Telepathy, Energy Blast, Flight), and can cast any "Spell" based on that base power with that Skill; the number of Active Points in the Spell translates into a penalty to the roll, the limitations on the Spell translates into a bonus to the roll; you can also cast compound effects with more than one base power for which you have a skill but you use the lowest applicable Skill roll to do it.


Anyway, different GM's use different Magic Systems. Usually the Magic Systems available are an integral part of a particular setting, and your options as a player joining the campaign are limited to what the GM thinks is appropriate for their campaign / setting / your experience level / their trust level for a new player. Your best bet is to go check out www.herocentral.net and look through the long list of campaigns currently running, peruse their story boards to see what their activity and game is like, the summary page to see if they are accepting new applicants, and then contact the GM's of the campaigns you are interested in via the mechanism provided on herocentral. Things will take their course from there.

[Shakram]

The idea of levels is a bit annoying. Templates in my opinion are are not good for character generation. Why? Because every character is the same, and it doesn't allow you to make your own character. So I don't see any freedom with the use of pregenerated characters. In a campaign where you cant make your own spells, decide your own use of magic, craft magic arms and armor, or pick your own advantages and limitations .... Just seems like your playing the DMs character ideas not you own.

I want to get away from D&D:thumbup: not play a D&D version of hero games:thumbdown.


To sum it all up I would want a Psionic, Divine or Magical character that could have a wide range of spells which emulate various powers. The hero could put more power into a spell to have a greater effect.

For example:
The hero Shakram wants to use a heal spell on one person giving them fast healing for X amount of time, then on his next turn he tosses a magical bolt at a goblin raider, now a big serpent bursts from the tunnel wall next to the party and he and the party needs to become intangible or be smashed under the huge bulk of the magical beast so he boosts his intangible power to usuable by others in the partys radius. Finally the partys warrior squares of with the beast so he and the other wizards all concentrate their power "aid" on the warriors blade to slay the beast with an added autofire giving him multiple attacks. etc...etc...

Just having spell uses, creating new spells within limits(after an adventure), and learning powers/skills which are crafted into spells. I am wanting to do this without all the gestures, material components, power point depletion, spell slots, of D&D. Basically not have limitations of a D&D template, but to be more free in character creation and development.

Transfer and Absorption would be used to give him a better controll of his spells as his power level increased. Rather than the D&D level system he can get stronger by transforming evil energys into his power pool to be used for the cause of good.

Of course this would be done within limits and at a gradual progression say 30 points a month(real time).
Equals 320 points after a year(real time) which is the same as a 20th level D&D character. :thumbup:


I used to play D&D and Rifts but I am tired of their systems, especially the templates they give the characters. I bought my hero games books to try something new and experience more freedom in character creation & gaming.

That being said what I am wanting to make is something similar, but different to the D&D(psionic)Erudite or (magic using)Wizard or even the mimic of rifts~hero's unlimited . Both of the characters are able to pick up new psionic powers and spells as they find them. Usually the Psionic & Wizard charcters must make a skill check to learn a new power, then they can use it at will according to their psionic power points or assign their magic slots.

As far as the hero's unlimited mimic goes he just needs to be in the general area and he gets all skills, powers, and special stats.


AHH THEN THERES THE WISH SPELL.....

[mayapuppies]

That kind of character design leaves nothing for anyone else. The character can do everything, at will. What's the point of playing a "Fighter" when you can play the "I Can Do Everything"?

I realize everyone has their own game style and that's cool, I'm merely trying to see the reasoning behind this style of character desire.

[Shakram]

That kind of character design leaves nothing for anyone else. The character can do everything, at will. What's the point of playing a "Fighter" when you can play the "I Can Do Everything"?

I realize everyone has their own game style and that's cool, I'm merely trying to see the reasoning behind this style of character desire.


Not you can do anything thats completly wrong. What you can do is learn spells and spellike abilitys, and craft your own spells.

A wizard from D&D can fly cast fireballs thansform themselves and even stop time, he can do this according to how many spell slots he has plus any scrolls he has scribed which can be infinate. A Psion can do all that without any of the gestures material components and incantations. Both characters, the psion and wizard can do research to make their own power.

What's the point of playing a "Fighter" when you can play the "I Can Do Everything

Whats stopping the warrior from using a variable power pool to express his sword skills and powers. For example crouching tiger hidden dragon, or a sword master with many manuvers that all use physical characteristics. Thor whirls his hammer to make a shield blocking arrows, then slams it to the ground making an earthquake, he then pummels the villan with autofire etc...

Warriors in D&D 10th-20th level dan do insane damade like 400d6. Just because your a warrior doesn't mean you cant do amazing damage or be powerful. For example tome of battle has lots of manuvers much the same as a wizard. Barbarian is capable of massive damage at 20th level and can do things that you would probably have most dragons dead in one hit.


I realize everyone has their own game style and that's cool, I'm merely trying to see the reasoning behind this style of character desire.

Some like the fighter some like the magic user, I happen to like both. Why the power pool? Because I don't see another realistic way to design most characters that have spells.

[mayapuppies]

I'd like to think I'm fairly familiar with the D&D concept, but what controls do you have in place? What's to stop the HERO equivalent of a first level character with a cosmic VPP developing every single ability he desires, on the fly during the game?

[Shakram]

I'd like to think I'm fairly familiar with the D&D concept, but what controls do you have in place? What's to stop the HERO equivalent of a first level character with a cosmic VPP developing every single ability he desires, on the fly during the game?


Whats to stop him from having access to his spells? Dispel would stop most wizards, or a similar anti magic field. Now he wouldnt have the endurance to use every power at once, but one or two spells at a time I think should be fine.

Make a shield 4d6, then fly 2d6, fire magic missle 4d6 sounds fine to me. The varible power pool is what limits what he can and cannot do. He simply doesnt have enough endurance to fly swiftly 40points, use a powerfull shield10d6 , and fire 10d6 energy blast.


What's to stop the HERO equivalent of a first level character with a cosmic VPP developing every single ability he desires, on the fly during the game?
And who said anything about first level? Since when do all games start with weak characters?
Most D&D DM's tailor the level of the characters to the type of campaign he/she has in mind. For example Red Hand of Doom is 5-6 level starting by the end 10-12.
What I want to do is step away from the D&D system that you must all have levels.

[Killer Shrike]

Ok; you need to get a better feel for the scale of the game as your numbers are off kilter. But, in principle the HERO System will let you do what you say you want to do....if you are the GM and allow it in your campaign. The system doesn't impose any kind of "creative agenda" or force archetypes by default.

However, most GM's do lock things down, defining what is and isnt allowed in their settings. Also, most players and GMs want some kind of structure and identifiable roles, and to not want characters to be uber tank-mages with cosmic powers for a wide variety of reasons. Chief among these reasons is that its completely generic and lacking in variation, but there are many other reasons as well.

Also, there are important differences between Classes and Templates from a design and playability standpoint. The HERO System does not have Classes, but it does have optional Templates (Package Deals). However, every character can legitimately be different from every other. The goal of point based games is not to predefine allowed sets of abilities that establish well understood concepts but prevent individuality. Rather it is to make sure that different expressions of individuality are roughly equivalent and balanced. If you make one option way more awesome than everything else, you defeat this intent by making one point in that thing worth more than many more points in some other thing.

As to your position that Fighters can take a VPP for fighting stunts (and so on thru other "archetypes"), this is true if the GM allows it. However if every character has to have a Cosmic VPP for their shtick to be competitive, then something is wrong.

The problem isnt allowing magic in your setting to do lots of things, this is very doable. The problem is ensuring that you don't overpower it and make it the only viable means of being competitive...unless such is your intent (like Ars Magicka).


But, regardless, you really don't seem to be receptive to input, so good luck and hope you find a game that suits you.

[mayapuppies]

And who said anything about first level? Since when do all games start with weak characters?
Most D&D DM's tailor the level of the characters to the type of campaign he/she has in mind. For example Red Hand of Doom is 5-6 level starting by the end 10-12.
What I want to do is step away from the D&D system that you must all have levels.

That's why I put it in quotes, I'm using "level" as a term to refer to "beginning" characters.

Now it's obvious that my game style is a tad different than yours, I start all my players at the "beginning" point value and they work their way up. I've never been an episodic GM or even the one off game GM. I prefer long running campaigns.

That is why I always assume the "beginning" points at character creation rather than the other method.

Having more points will only make this easier:

If I were to have a cosmic VPP with no checks or balances in play, then I would insure that every single power that I designed on the fly (during the game and prior) would have the advantage of Reduced END (0 END). Then I wouldn't ever have to worry about Endurance.

I would put every single point into my VPP (minus the ones I put into making my SPD at least a 6) to insure that I had the most flexability possible. Then I would just wander around the game world and "create" the spell that I needed at the moment that I needed it.

Now to stop that sort of powergaming (or munchkinism I believe it's called nowadays) you would need restrictions in place. The most obvious one is remove the Cosmic from the Cosmic VPP and put requirements on how "spells" can be swapped around. After that, it becomes a simple matter of how you want your magic system to feel.

[Shakram]

Yeah I would write out the basic spells ahead of time and post them on a spellbook internet page.

Adding various modifiers to them to change them could also be pre-recorded.

So the character wouldn't be making powers on the fly, but before and after the adventure.

Reality shaping spells and limited wishes would however be on the fly. For example I wish Bjosen the dwarf didn't open that trapped box, unleashing a plauge upon the world. There's no way to write that up, powerfull spells are a part of D&D.

If as a DM you will not allow your players to gain access to powerful spells, feats, powers, and artifacts thats your choice. But higher powers do exist. There are more effecient ways to use power, and perhaps funner. Some people enjoy restraints put on them, some people loath them. I think it really depends on the type of group thats playing, not just what the DM wants but also what the players want.

Have you thought to ask your players what level of gameplay is comfortable for them? Or do you, like most DM's set up a game and dictate what you will allow them to use and play?

[mayapuppies]

All players in my games are well aware of the style of game I run. I see that you made a new thread about Superheroic fantasy and i think that's exactly the style you're going for here.

[Thia Halmades]

Shakram:

Without going through the hassle of quoting all of your ideas, I'm going to immediately side with both of my mates. I had a player very much like you in one of my campaigns (the Halliruch Campaign, which I don't detail on these boards) but to sum up a moment:

Yes, in d20/D&D style 'class based' fantasy, everyone has a role to play; the Fighter types (PAL, RNG, FTR) act as the front liners, with give and take for what they can do and where they're most effective. FTR is always going to be a great up-front tanking class, Pallies have inherent divine advantages, and so on.

'Stealth' or other niche classes are often under-appreciated or mis-used. For example, your rogue is really a sneak-attack weapon (see Fantasy HERO ability, "Deadly Blow," which has been discussed at length on this board for balancing issues) fills a totally separate role from the others.

Then you get to your caster classes (classically, WIZ, CLR, DRU, SOR in 3rd edition & onwards) and in a Final Fantasy milieu, are cleanly broken out into classically 'offensive' and 'defensive' magic. While I admit that my own campaign designs are extremely strict, my players appreciate it because it does allow each of them to flourish within their chosen profession.

In other words, I don't see HERO as an excuse to create a 'super hero' that can do everything within the party. If you look at something like the Justice League (esp. in the animated series) there's room for everyone, including Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Captain Atom, the Martian Manhunter, the Flash and others. Each of them, in a supers setting, fill a specific role.

If you get too far away from that, while it may be super heroic, it becomes a new element, which we call 'anti-fun.' I had to constantly reel in the party wizard when I switched to HERO because he did precisely what you wanted to do; combine a character who could cast Ressurection (which is illegal in my setting, as in literally, against the law) as well as Fireball, and no amount of discussion managed to get him to realize that just because I'd gone from a rigid, forced-growth system to a less-restrictive, organic growth system, didn't mean that all the control factors had come off; it simply meant I introduced NEW control factors and design decisions to keep things in check.

Does that mean it's a bad idea to have a character who can do anything & everything? Of course not. It means that IME, most GMs will still make sure that designed characters have a focus & a niche where they can really excel and get their share of the spotlight; no one wants to play Toad in a party with Superman (and yes, I'm aware I mixed IPs).

But if I'm playing a dedicated Cleric with a VPP, and you're playing some kind of super-caster, then I serve no function beyond "backing you up." I wouldn't want to play that character, and I doubt my players would, either. Personally, I find it much easier to make sure things are designed right up front, rather than trying to stop the damage by 'taking things away' on the back end or mid-game.

That may just be me. YMMV. And if your GM is ready for that kind of super-powered game, fantastic. But in a traditional fantasy game, I don't see it being viable.

[Shakram]

Super heroic fantasy thing isn't a must.... Just it's the kind of character I would want to play, if I got a choice.

Hey you can't have it all even in a fantasy world.

I would take whatever DM's allowed, and what would be the best for the group in question.