Minotaur Racial Package

[Catalyst]

I'm thinking of making a playable minotaur race, but before building I wanted to see if anyone knows of an existing package I could use as a basis.

And a follow up question to that: As a player, do you like the idea of having a large-class race such as minotaurs available as an option? Would it bother you if someone else was playing one and you weren't?

It would certainly be the most expensive race in terms of cost, and my plan is to have several low, mid, and high cost races so there's careful though put in by the players during race selection.

Any links or advice anyone can offer would be appreciated.

Catalyst

[clsage]

I'm thinking of making a playable minotaur race, but before building I wanted to see if anyone knows of an existing package I could use as a basis.


Well, here is a version of a Minotaur species package:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/paminotaur.html

It's from this page:

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/mathew/champions.html

which generally specializes in 250pt conversions....This version
of the Minotaur species is based on the Rifts version of the race.
So any special abilities in the package most likely come from there.
The total package cost is suprisingly low at 35 real points (82 - 47
from disads...). Of course, as mentioned previously, some of the
write-up (including disads) is coming from Rifts. So the cost in your
campaign might be higher. :D

-Carl-

[Killer Shrike]

I've got a number of Humanoid Pacakges (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/humanoidPackages.aspx) several of which are large, and also, on the Human Packages (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/humanPackages.aspx) page a Half-Ogre (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/Human/OgreHalf.aspx) and a Firbolg (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/Human/Firbolg.aspx) (giant human).

I don't have a Minotaur package specifically, but I could add one pretty easily if it would be useful.

[MorpheousXO]

I certainly would not be adverse to you adding any number of racial package deals as your packages always seem to make me think a little deeper about what a race should be... stupid d20 racials :ugly:

[runescience]

Shrike? i was wondering... do you build your website using HD3?

[Killer Shrike]

Shrike? i was wondering... do you build your website using HD3?

No; I build my website with HTML, css, SQL, and ASP.NET.

I do the character writeups w/ Hero Designer v3. The Package Deals I just type out by hand, though I use HD3 to check the math on the more complicated power builds for innate abilities and what not.

[Killer Shrike]

I certainly would not be adverse to you adding any number of racial package deals as your packages always seem to make me think a little deeper about what a race should be... stupid d20 racials :ugly:

Yeah, I put Minotaurs on my todo list. Sadly there is quite a bit of stuff on before it that Im backed up on.

Someone named Robert Kevin Walsh has been sending me a lot of really solid material (mostly spells) that I haven't been able to get posted up because he caught me in the middle of re-engineering the Spells database / pages. I've been slogging thru the various things I need to do to make that happen but life continues to intrude. Once I get it wrapped up and deployed I can get his material loaded up, and that will free me to move on to small stuff like this.

[Shadowsoul]

Here's one I made earlier. Although it should probably be combined with a setting appropriate cultural package.

It's a fairly restrained write up which presumes that minotaurs are a PC race rather than monsters which can be played.

It's also a mere 9pts with disadvantages.

Incidentally if you wanted to do a proper Greek minotaur or perhaps a minotaur king or powered up priest then give him 10pts of Hardened Armour, (PD and ED), and horns built as 1d6 Killing, Armour Piercing (2 levels), OIF, (because theoretically you can break them off but it ain't easy).

Stats. Cost.

+5 STR. 5
+3 CON. 6
+2 BOD 4
-2 INT -2
+2 PRE 2

Talents.

Bump of Direction. 3

Powers.

Nightvision. 5

Hardened Hide. 1pt resistant PD. 2

Knockback Resistance 1. 2

Fearsome Roar. +10 PRE only to enhance or protect against PRE attacks (-1/2). Verbal (-1/4). 6

Horns. Killing attack 1/2 d6, (1d6+1 with STR). Reduced Penetration (-1/4). Restrainable (-1/2). 6

Disadvantages.

Hulking. -1 DCV. -5

Distinctive Features - Minotaur. Not Concealable. Noticed and Recognisable. -15

Psy Lim. Bestial. Common. Moderate. -10

[Catalyst]

Wow, all these great responses! I've been on vacation so my apologies for not popping in sooner.

Thanks very much for all the input.

I'll make a post soon with some of my world information -- I'm about a month away from starting my new campaign, and would love some feedback from all the experts here.

Again, thanks so much -- I truly appreciate the intellect and thoughtfulness of this community.

[mayapuppies]

Here's one I created.

[Killer Shrike]

First pass:
Minotaur (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/Humanoids/Minotaur.aspx)

[Tonio]

First pass:
Minotaur (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/RacePackageDeals/Humanoids/Minotaur.aspx)

I'd say Bump Of Direction doesn't make them Maze-proof, since all it really lets you do is know which way is North, whether he's above/below local ground level, etc. In fact, the description specifically mentions it doesn't allow him to find his way out of a maze. Maybe a Detect Way Out Of Maze?

On the other hand, Bump Of Direction might be a more realistic rationale... like, say, Minotaurs weren't really maze-proof, they were just naturally good at knowing where they were facing, etc, that they were reputed to be maze-proof, although in reality they weren't.

[shadowcat1313]

Robert Kevin Walsh is me... and I am going to be helping convert a bunch of the material on High Fantasy Hero to HD3 formats.

if somebody has a special request holler, right now I just have basic class templates done, and the 4 prestige classes from the DMG

working grave shift industrial security is nice sometimes, I have a lot of extra time to work on things

my boss lets me take my ancient laptop to work, since its incapable of being networked or getting online. it hasnt got a prayer of running Hero Designer, and sadly theres no way of converting from Heromaker to Hero Designer. this has a paid for copy of Heromaker 2.5 still on it

[Killer Shrike]

Yeah, I knew the maze sacred cow would be a point of contention.

Personally I've always thought it silly that the entire race was given such an ability because the mythological source of a single Minotaur knew how to find its way around a single Maze that it had lived in for a long time.

Anyway, I just uploaded a version with a full blown Detect as an option.

[Tonio]

I think both versions "work", if only for different campaigns. A more realistic campaign, where Minotaurs aren't really mystical cross-breeds between men and cows, but rather creatures with bovine ancestry that evolved into intelligent humanoids, giving them Bump Of Direction + Reputation: Maze-Proof would fit the bill. On the other hand, on a more fantastic campaign, where Minotaurs were created by the Gods (or by powerful Wizards), having them be naturally (magically?) immune to mazes, an ability given to them by their creator(s), can be appropriate.

I didn't mean to imply Minotaurs should have either of those, just to point out that Bump Of Direction does not make you literally Maze-proof. =)

[Tonio]

Just checked out the updated Package... Seems kinda expensive; I think you can leave out the Sense part; it'd give Minotaurs a less immediate answer (they'd have to stop and "figure out" the way out, rather than immediately knowing where to go). Also, why Tracking, and why Discriminatory (just asking what your rationale was, not arguing against)? Maybe you can leave out Increased Arc of Perception; Minotaurs would need to turn full circle, checking each direction... would be more of a "Ok, this looks like the way out" rather than a "The way out is thatta way". Would be cheaper, and still have the right feel, I think.

[Killer Shrike]

Just checked out the updated Package... Seems kinda expensive; I think you can leave out the Sense part; it'd give Minotaurs a less immediate answer (they'd have to stop and "figure out" the way out, rather than immediately knowing where to go). Also, why Tracking, and why Discriminatory (just asking what your rationale was, not arguing against)? Maybe you can leave out Increased Arc of Perception; Minotaurs would need to turn full circle, checking each direction... would be more of a "Ok, this looks like the way out" rather than a "The way out is thatta way". Would be cheaper, and still have the right feel, I think.

Well, my thought process was:
Sense: so they just "know"
360: ditto
Discrim: so they can tell which way(s) are SAFE vs UNSAFE, and get some info on the pros and cons of multiple ways out.
Tracking: I was thinking the effect of this is the Minotaur detects the exit point and then "tracks" it out like a dog following a scent. But, on the other hand, its probably not strictly necessary.

Anyway, I just put up a third pass for your amusement.

[Shadowsoul]

I don't suppose I'd make myself very popular if I pointed out that the original minotaur probably couldn't navigate mazes that well because it never escaped the labyrinth. Or did I miss some part of the myth? Was that why the labyrinth was built because the original beast had a particular genius for escaping normal mazes?

Although I guess if you encounter a minotaur in the outside world then it was able to get out of the labyrinth and thus might have a power to account for that. Evolution in action. :)

[Blue Jogger]

According to Wikipedia, The original Labyrinth was so elaborate that the creator could barely escape after it was built. To me, that suggests that while minotaurs can find their way easily in most mazes, dungeons, and the like, while the Labyrinth is specifically design to trap creatures and people inside (Darkness to Direction Sense?).

The only known people to escape the Labyrinth followed a thread that the hero specifically marked his path with so he could follow it out.

[Shadowsoul]

Would make for an amusing little adventure or hidden plot twist within the adventure.

Demented king (insert name here) likes to execute his enemies with style. To this end he has captured/created/summoned a mighty minotaur to hunt and destroy them. But the creature has a mind of its own and wishes to escape servitude. Since king (insert name here) firmly believes that if one grandiose plan fails you must prop it up with an even more extravagant one he has hired a great genius to build a vast subterranean labyrinth that even the minotaur will be unable to escape.

Unlucky people are sent down into the labyrinth while dissolute nobles, evil priests and the king himself look on from great walkways on the surface. This minotaur does not hunger for human flesh but is forced to hunt and kill those sent to it because otherwise the king will stop having food dropped down to it.

Then the adventurers end up in the maze and as the minotaur tracks them it realises how strong they are. Growing tired of its cursed imprisonment the minotaur wishes to join forces with the heroes, pool their knowledge of roughly where they came from with its superb maze-traversing skills and escape once and for all to a less murderous existence

The heroes of course must decide whether to trust the monster sent to hunt them. And if they appear to be cooperating with it then the watching crowds might start lobbing nasty spells, summons etc down on their heads.

(Of course a really nasty GM could have the minotaur pretending to be a virtuous victim in order to get help in escaping to a world full of things to kill or even devour, but I prefer the original motivation i.e. he's really quite a nice guy, could even be a good way to introduce a minotaur PC).