New to the Fora; Back to Hero

[Vann the Red]

Hello, folks. I played Champions pretty much non-stop from '83 - '02 and then moved away from my gaming buddies. New town seems to have a somewhat active gaming culture, so I thought I'd dip my toes back in. Problem: I have no knowledge of 5th Edition. I do have pretty much everything that came out before '02, but wondered if I could get suggested reading to catch me up. Genre stuff is less important since I still have the old stuff, but the campaign (should I end up running again) would be Champs or Dark Champs.

TIA,

VtR

[ghost-angel]

Pick up Sidekick to check out most of the 5E Rules, pick up the main book to get them all plus some other stuff (Genre By Genre Guide, amongst others).

The Genre Books in 5E DO NOT include the rules, but the changes aren't so bad you absolutely need 5E to use them, it just helps.

And welcome back to the fold.

[Vann the Red]

Many thanks, GA. I gathered from reading through the first couple pages my response might come from you.

VtR

[Killer Shrike]

The new Dark Champions and Fantasy Genre books are vastly superior to their predecessors. The new Champions Genre books is not really essential, IMO. It's also worth noting that Dark Champions is no longer just a Punisher style subgenre of superheroes; the book that the label is attached to covers the Modern Action / Adventure Genre in its totality.

Also of note if you are coming from 4e, if you have the old Ninja HERO you don't really need the new Ultimate Martial Artist (which unintuitively is much more of a direct descendant of the old Ninja HERO than the new Ninja HERO is despite the names). Don't get me wrong, its a great book, but a lot of the crunchy stuff is brought forward from 4e Ninja HERO.


The 5th Edition Revised rulebook is a great thing and I would say essential to you. Ultimate Skill is also very amazing from a "extension of the system" perspective. The Ultimate Vehicle is solid if you have a focus on vehicles in the campaign, but if you just want a bunch of vehicle write ups the Hero System Vehicle Sourcebook is probably more appropriate.

If you have the old Bestiary, you don't really need the new one, but its worth noting that in 5e being permanently big or small isn't done w/ Always On Body Affecting Powers any more -- its done by buying the benefits directly and modeling the penalties via a Physical Limitation which is much more mechanically sound, and thus the write ups are a bit different for such characters -- but this is really just an accounting difference that is usually pretty transparent in actual gameplay.

[ghost-angel]

Many thanks, GA. I gathered from reading through the first couple pages my response might come from you.

VtR

I'm flattered ... and possibly spend too much time here. . .

(Killer Shrikes suggestions on books are good BTW)

[gojira]

Welcome Valkyrie... er, Vann the Red!

What they said, I just wanted to say hi!

[Spidey88]

Since I don't think anyone's said this directly yet:

The differences between 4th and 5th edition HERO System are relatively small. While the changes made have been meaningful, your 4th edition stuff should still be quite useful to you. All the major stuff is more or less the same as it used to be, IMHO.

That being said: 5th edition rules are great, so get them as soon as you can!

[Susano]

Dark Champions is good for modern day military/spy action. Gadgets and Gear is useful for all for the pre-made supers gadgets. The Ultimate Skill is amazing for its in-depth coverage of skills and their use.

[Lord Liaden]

Since I don't think anyone's said this directly yet:

The differences between 4th and 5th edition HERO System are relatively small. While the changes made have been meaningful, your 4th edition stuff should still be quite useful to you. All the major stuff is more or less the same as it used to be, IMHO.

Agreed. Speaking of the changes from Fourth to Fifth Edition, here's a link to a very good summary of them: http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm

It's not enough to let you forego buying the rulebook (deliberately so), but will definitely get you up to speed on what's been altered.

And welcome back, Vann! :)

[Vann the Red]

Thank you all for your advice. I decided to concentrate on what was core for me: the rules and Champions. I bought the core rules (loves me a thick textbook-like thingy) and the 5e Champions book. We'll see where that leaves me. Oh, and because I couldn't help myself, I picked up the Ultimate Brick...

Thanks for the responses, all.

VtR

[Susano]

You also want to buy anything written by Michael Surbrook. Trust me on this.

:D

[ghost-angel]

For your next purchase I recommend:

Champions Universe - the setting book, at the very least provides ideas for the framework to form your own setting around.
Villainy Amok - one of the best adventure books you'll likely encounter
Everyman - NPCS, non-super NPCs to be specific, all the other people the Superheroes interact with.
Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks - big thick book of Villains.

Other extremely useful Champions books:
UNTIL Superpowers Database I & II - hundreds of Power builds, for either quick character generation or springboards for more ideas.
Any Ultimate Series Book - all around good stuff in all of them really.

Other books start to fulfill more specific roles depending on the nature of the campaign you're running and what elements you want to include.

:)

[gojira]

Is Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks available right now? I don't see it on the on-line store.

Got any reviews of the other villain books yet, GA? I'm looking for the one that Ogre is in. Who's in VVV?

[Susano]

Is Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks available right now? I don't see it on the on-line store.

Got any reviews of the other villain books yet, GA? I'm looking for the one that Ogre is in. Who's in VVV?

Ogre is in CKC and TUB.

[ghost-angel]

Is Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks available right now? I don't see it on the on-line store.

Got any reviews of the other villain books yet, GA? I'm looking for the one that Ogre is in. Who's in VVV?

All the villain books except CKC have reviews right now. I'm currently reading CKC, so it too will have a review by end of next week.

Review Links:
Villains, Vandals, And Vermin (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59783)
Arcane Adversaries (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59717)
Evil Unleashed (http://www.curufea.com/hero/doku.php?id=reviews:doj:223_eu) (note: this one leads off site to the HeroWiki as I wasn't in the habit of starting threads for the reviews when I wrote this one)
Champions Worldwide (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55939) (not completely dedicated to villains, or even character write-ups, but it has a good amount in it)

You can find links to all the reviews in the Reviews Thread in the Company Questions forum, it's a sticky post, Post#1 has links to all the threads, HeroWiki contains all the other reviews.

(it appears that CKC is out of stock - you'd have to ask Darren if there is intent to get a reprint of that book. The PDF is available however.)

[gojira]

Susano: Ah, that means he should be in the villain compilation Evil Unleashed too. Can anyone who has it verify that?

GA: Thanks, I didn't see the review of EU last time I looked at your review thread.

[ghost-angel]

Ogre is not in Evil Unleashed.

(no worries on missing the EU review.. it's getting to be a long list)

[Susano]

Susano: Ah, that means he should be in the villain compilation Evil Unleashed too. Can anyone who has it verify that?.

Shouldn't be, Evil Unleashed has (I thought) all the villains from the various other Ultimate books and whatnot.

[gojira]

Hmm, bummer. Well thanks for the info. I'm not planning on picking up any of the Ultimate series right now, maybe I'll make an exception for TUB.

[ghost-angel]

Shouldn't be, Evil Unleashed has (I thought) all the villains from the various other Ultimate books and whatnot.

It's mostly the various write-ups from other Champions Products, any characters from the Ultimate series in EU are new characters written up for that Ultimate Book, not any of the reworked villains (like Ogre and Grond in TUB).

[gojira]

huh. I don't see your review of Dark Champions on Amazon GA. Did you ever post one?

[ghost-angel]

Ah, no haven't got that one up on Amazon yet... I'm behind on posting reviews to Amazon, their site has been abnormally slow for me lately, making posting a PITA.

Here's the Thread ("http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57017"
)

[Lord Liaden]

Just to clarify, the first Fifth Edition writeup for Ogre is in Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks. The Ultimate Brick contains a more experienced, rounded version of him. The same applies to Grond.

[Vann the Red]

Thank you all for continuing to contribute to my re-education. Please bear in mind with suggestions that I own pretty much everything published before 2002. So I am trying to focus on things that are either:
a) Completely new.
b) Substantially changed under 5e.

Thanks again,

VtR

[Diamond Spear]

Ninja Hero is a MUST! What Dark Champions game is complete without an Asian gang and what Asian gang is complete without Ninjas? Besides it's just a generally useful book.

[Susano]

Ninja Hero is a MUST! What Dark Champions game is complete without an Asian gang and what Asian gang is complete without Ninjas?

**Susano slips Diamond Spear $20.**

[tancred]

Welcome back, Vann!

I would suggest checking out Hero Designer. For $25, you get the hands-down best-ever character creation software.
It includes optional rules from most of the published books (and new options are being added), and it enforces the rules to help you make everything legal by the 5th Edition rules.
You can export character sheets in a variety of formats, including making combat record sheets.

There are character packs for nearly all genres. Many of them are an even better steal, as little as $6.99.
It's so very cool to load up a published character or monster, spend 5 minutes tweaking it, and have your adversary for the night.

Even if you like doing your characters with a scratch-pad and a calculator (and I did for years), you'll like HD. It's so easy to use.

[Diamond Spear]

**Susano slips Diamond Spear $20.**

**Diamond Spear slips it back and says "Just rep me buddy. :)**

[Susano]

**Diamond Spear slips it back and says "Just rep me buddy. :)**

Done.

[Diamond Spear]

Done.

Holy crap! That's a hell of a rush! :D

[Vann the Red]

Ninja Hero is a MUST! What Dark Champions game is complete without an Asian gang and what Asian gang is complete without Ninjas? Besides it's just a generally useful book.

I have Aaron Allston's version. Please allow me the opportunity to pimp your changes.

VtR

[Thia Halmades]

Eh, lessee.

Oh, hi. I am the Lord Captain Thia Halmades. I don't live here, I just rent out this little castle on the hill. Small army. You know the drill. Books that I would recommend quickly and immediately:

-- Combat Handbook. Yeah, it's that important.
-- UMA if you're goin' with the whole Dark Champions thing
-- Dark Champions. Yadoi.
-- Hero System Equipment Guide

Pretty much distills everything you need into one place. I don't do 'Champions' having never been a Super Hero cat myself, but if that's how you roll, there's PLENTY of material for you. Ninja HERO is a solid book with some fun stuff in it, and it's a great compliment to the rest of DC and its ilk.

You can't knock ninjas, really. I mean, there's nothing wrong with dressing your employees in all black.

[Susano]

Eh, lessee.

Oh, hi. I am the Lord Captain Thia Halmades. I don't live here, I just rent out this little castle on the hill. Small army. You know the drill. Books that I would recommend quickly and immediately:

-- Combat Handbook. Yeah, it's that important.
-- UMA if you're goin' with the whole Dark Champions thing
-- Dark Champions. Yadoi.
-- Hero System Equipment Guide

Pretty much distills everything you need into one place. I don't do 'Champions' having never been a Super Hero cat myself, but if that's how you roll, there's PLENTY of material for you. Ninja HERO is a solid book with some fun stuff in it, and it's a great compliment to the rest of DC and its ilk.

You can't knock ninjas, really. I mean, there's nothing wrong with dressing your employees in all black.

Just Ask a Ninja: http://askaninja.com/