D&D twists on Fantasy Hero Ok???

[LordSolovar]

This may be blasphemy for some of you, but I like some of the touches that D&D has. The simple battles in the square maps are nice and are easier for my slower freinds to comprehend. So the basic question is:
You think it is fine if I use Fantasy Hero to make very deep and interesting characters and then use the maps from D&D and the feel of the battles?

I still use Hero System rules in battle, I just wanna use squares instead of hexes All the roleplaying is done off map and then for encounters, Not always in rediculous dungeouns, we hop to the D&Dish map.

[Killer Shrike]

Um...how are squares "simpler" than squares? I guess I don't see how it would really make much of a difference in real terms.

[LordSolovar]

You have less moving options, and the moves are easier to see. honestly i like hexes better. but it comes to having my friends wanting to play.

[steamteck]

My sympathy for you with your "slower" friends. ( That sounds worse than it is I hope) In any event use whatever maps you want. Here's a link where people post some really nice maps that mostly use use squares.

http://www.dundjinni.com/forums/forum_topics.asp?FID=6

[ghost-angel]

Half the games I'm in don't use any kind of grid. Go with whatever you like.

[Curufea]

I use squares or hexes depending on what I have available. Although with squares I tend to go with staggered squares (ie a brick pattern) to simulate hexes. But it's easy enough to do with a standard grid - you just move from middle of a square to the line between.

[CrosshairCollie]

Square grids are nice because, well, rooms are (usually) square. You don't wind up with a third of a hex on one side of a wall, for example, and when you move in a straight line, your mini moves in a straight line as well; sometimes, on a hex-map, you seem to move 'zigzag' and seem to not go as far.

Doing Area Effects on squares can be a pain in the butt, though. D&D AE Cones don't look like cones if you do them on the side of a square instead of off the corner.

I accidentally ran a Champions game on a square grid; I have a battlemat with Hexes on one side and Squares on the other, started making out the fight scene and suddenly went, "Wait ... this is the wrong side of the map." Felt like an idiot, but just ran with it and it really didn't make a lot of difference in the end.

[ghost-angel]

Personally, I prefer no grids because last time I checked there wasn't one under my feet.

[Killer Shrike]

I accidentally ran a Champions game on a square grid; I have a battlemat with Hexes on one side and Squares on the other, started making out the fight scene and suddenly went, "Wait ... this is the wrong side of the map." Felt like an idiot, but just ran with it and it really didn't make a lot of difference in the end.
Yah, thats what I was referring to. Doesn't seem like it would make a difference.

[Killer Shrike]

Personally, I prefer no grids because last time I checked there wasn't one under my feet.

Yeah, a simple measuring tape does the trick :)

[Dreadnought]

Personally, I prefer no grids because last time I checked there wasn't one under my feet.
At my University there are two areas I know of which are paved with hexes. Each hex is about a meter in diameter, so smaller than a Hero inch, but big enough to stand in comfortably. My friends will occasionally bug me to re-write the graphing calculator programs that would let us do hero combat out there, then play some champions out there. It would be interesting if we could get all the people who normally use the areas out of there.

[Markdoc]

At my University there are two areas I know of which are paved with hexes. Each hex is about a meter in diameter, so smaller than a Hero inch, but big enough to stand in comfortably. My friends will occasionally bug me to re-write the graphing calculator programs that would let us do hero combat out there, then play some champions out there. It would be interesting if we could get all the people who normally use the areas out of there.

Oh, you start doing live action role-playing out there and they'll leave :D

cheers, Mark

[Hugh Neilson]

Personally, I prefer no grids because last time I checked there wasn't one under my feet.

Grids make it easier to count the space. However, I also like the idea of removing the grid and requiring players to make decisions without counting out the hexes. Do your characters really have that precise a sense of distances? Even if I had the grid under my feet, I don't think I could count off the hexes for the various options in a typical Hero combat and make my decision in the 6 seconds my (likely) 2 SPD affords me to use a phase.

["V"]

Oh, you start doing live action role-playing out there and they'll leave :D

cheers, Mark

Quoted for truth.

In my experience all someone needs to do is ask if there are any fairies in the vicinity and the combat rules suddenly get a very very good playtesting.

[CTaylor]

You can use squares if you want but I fail to see how hexes are too complex for your average gamer to handle.

[Markdoc]

As for the original question, I used a battle mat for years that only had squares and it made no appreciable difference.

For that matter we went years without a battlemat and that worked fine too.

So yeah, there's nothing in Hero that actually requires the use of a hex mat. Occasionally, if we are fighting in an internal environment where most of the walls are at right angles, I still occasionally use the "squares mat" because it makes drawing easier and ease is the only reason I use one - that it cuts down on GM explanation on who's where and what they can see.

cheers, Mark

[MorpheousXO]

Question, generally the suggestion for moving diagonally on a square is that it's 1.5" (rounded down), would that also work for moving corner to corner on a hex? If so, then I like hexes just fine. If not, then I'd prefer squares cause you'd have 8 directions of movement without having to think TOO much, while with the 12 you'd have on a hex, half of the calculations required might take too long (I generally underesitmate peoples ability/want to do math at a game table). That's my oppinion anyway, though I would like the question answered since I can't wrap my brain around hex corners.

[LordSolovar]

Glad for all your input. The hexes do make it slightly nicer because of the more organic fell of the movement, but for maps(sometimes I use D&D) squares are easier to make the rooms and buildings around. I kind of like the idea of no squares. It would really add to the realism.

[SCUBA Hero]

Personally, I prefer no grids because last time I checked there wasn't one under my feet.Invisible Power Effects.

[Hugh Neilson]

You can use squares if you want but I fail to see how hexes are too complex for your average gamer to handle.

Once you ask gamers to work with something that has six sides, it appears to be too much for them. ;)

[CTaylor]

That just is one of my pet peeves about Hero: it's too hard, too much math!

First, it's basic arithmetic, this isn't calculus, it is the level of math you should be bored with by the time you are in junior high. Second, role playing game hobbists are not exactly the dumbest people in society. Generally speaking, RPG players are smarter than most people and often more mathematically inclined. It's absurd to say that geeks who program computers and take trig in high school are intimidated by the math in Hero.

[Captain Obvious]

I use squares or hexes depending on what I have available. Although with squares I tend to go with staggered squares (ie a brick pattern) to simulate hexes. But it's easy enough to do with a standard grid - you just move from middle of a square to the line between.

Speaking of the staggered square pattern, does anyone know of a battlemat printed with it? I did some minor poking around looking for it, but I may easily have overlooked it if it's out there somewhere.

[Remjin]

Stealing from wargames... measuring after you decide makes for decisions having some "mystery" to them as far as them making it, and it doesn't look as silly. I neither like squares nor hexes nor battlemaps. I like to lay down a flocked sheet and throw down props and let people measure if they need to. One advantage of also being a wargamer: lots of that lying around. =)

You can buy the flocked mats for cheap, making your own isn't hard, and props are simple. If I may self-promote a tad here, check out "Roleplaying in Miniature" under columns at rpg.net

[mayapuppies]

I used to use a tape measure until I got this:
http://fatkatgames.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=949
Muwahahahahaha!

[Curufea]

Speaking of the staggered square pattern, does anyone know of a battlemat printed with it? I did some minor poking around looking for it, but I may easily have overlooked it if it's out there somewhere.

One of my papermodel colleagues whipped me up some tiles for it. If I can find them, I'll post them on this board.

[Maur]

Stealing from wargames... measuring after you decide makes for decisions having some "mystery" to them as far as them making it, and it doesn't look as silly. I neither like squares nor hexes nor battlemaps. I like to lay down a flocked sheet and throw down props and let people measure if they need to. One advantage of also being a wargamer: lots of that lying around. =)

And yet even some of the wargames allow for premeasuring to help level the playing field between players as some are better at judging distances than others. The grid levels that playing field for everyone and also helps adjudicate things like area of effect attacks and how much effect one gets if you aren't fully under the template. Either your hex/square is in the effect or it isn't.

[Tonio]

Grids make it easier to count the space. However, I also like the idea of removing the grid and requiring players to make decisions without counting out the hexes. Do your characters really have that precise a sense of distances? Even if I had the grid under my feet, I don't think I could count off the hexes for the various options in a typical Hero combat and make my decision in the 6 seconds my (likely) 2 SPD affords me to use a phase.

Absolute Range Sense! :D

[Remjin]

And yet even some of the wargames allow for premeasuring to help level the playing field between players as some are better at judging distances than others. The grid levels that playing field for everyone and also helps adjudicate things like area of effect attacks and how much effect one gets if you aren't fully under the template. Either your hex/square is in the effect or it isn't.

Okay, this is going to be a touch of beating a dead horse... but using a radius is the same in hexes as under a template. If you're under it, you're under it. We can dicker over the minutia of it all, but there's a reason I don't really play wargames anymore... the people battling over minutia turned me off to it. Measuring or squares/hexes will give the same results, in the end, as all fall under a set of rules. I prefer the lack of one because its just prettier to see miniatures, props, terrain and whatever else than it is to look at an off-white sheet of pleather with grids drawn on it with game pieces thrown on it. Unfortunately, most roleplayers aren't really all that into making all that, so it only happens when I bring all the stuff and paint all the miniatures. :( Fortunately, with my current group, there is another wargamer at the table so it isn't too bad, and lots of stand-in miniatures from the clicks fans in the group (not me).

[LordSolovar]

pointing out wargaming is a big help. im also a fanatical warhammer 40k player. if i just approached the maps in the same way it would work really well.

[Remjin]

pointing out wargaming is a big help. im also a fanatical warhammer 40k player. if i just approached the maps in the same way it would work really well.

I enjoy it, but I will say this.. you can't set it out for everything unless your terrain collection is seriously big.

[CTaylor]

I had a friend in the past who built terrain using foam blocks and a special cutter. They worked great, but you needed a warehouse to store it all.

[Remjin]

I had a friend in the past who built terrain using foam blocks and a special cutter. They worked great, but you needed a warehouse to store it all.

For that kind of work, its often cheaper to just get the pre-done stuff than spend your time. For basic stuff, and a bit of space-savings, check out: www.war-zone.com for your basic hills and such. Its the same thing. The foam and cutter is pretty basic, there's a lot more out there. Try this article: http://www.rpg.net/columns/roleplayinginminiature/roleplayinginminiature6.phtml

They've apparently changed and wrecked all the links in it, but if you just look in your address bar and delete the rpg.net portion they work fine. I don't know why they did that, but it gives you some economical ways of getting terrain including paper terrain which is surprisingly good.

[Vondy]

Its a game played as recreation. If it works for you and your group its okay. If it doesn't, its not.

[Thia Halmades]

I agree with VDM at the end of the day; if you want to use the AoO rules from d20, you can. If you want to use the AoO rules from HERO, you can. There are some rules you put in and out, there isn't much difference among hexes, squares, or flat boards with rulers for all it matters. Go with what you're comfortable and happy with.

[Lucius]

Stealing from wargames... measuring after you decide makes for decisions having some "mystery" to them as far as them making it, and it doesn't look as silly. I neither like squares nor hexes nor battlemaps. I like to lay down a flocked sheet and throw down props and let people measure if they need to. One advantage of also being a wargamer: lots of that lying around. =)

You can buy the flocked mats for cheap, making your own isn't hard, and props are simple. If I may self-promote a tad here, check out "Roleplaying in Miniature" under columns at rpg.net

I'm sorry, but I have to ask -

what the flock are you talking about?

Lucius Alexander

And a whole flock of palindromedaries

[Thia Halmades]

Lucius, for the last time, watch your flocking language on this board. How many times do i have to report you to the mods?

[CrosshairCollie]

Lucius, for the last time, watch your flocking language on this board. How many times do i have to report you to the mods?

Holy sheep!

[Remjin]

I'm sorry, but I have to ask -

what the flock are you talking about?

Lucius Alexander

And a whole flock of palindromedaries

While I'm sure you know and are joking, just in case I'll answer the question... =)

Flock is material that is glued onto a base to simulate grass, dirt, or otherwise. Everything from colored sawdust to rocks and static grass (actual strands that will stand up to look like grass).

[Thia Halmades]

Holy sheep!

Enough with the baaaahd puns, okay CC? C'mon, you can do better than that.

[psychoticbarber]

Just had a thought I think I'll employ for my next game. Why not a marked string?

It would allow you to measure inches around corners, in odd paths, and basically however you like, and does not require the use of a grid. That and all you need is a ruler, a marker, and a piece of string.

*Decides to make one later on...*

[Remjin]

Wouldn't it be nicer/easier to just buy a tape measure or one of the measuring dealies that tailors use? I prefer tape measure, retracts itself and stays rigid for short measurements yet still bends to go around stuff. Cheap, too.

[psychoticbarber]

Maybe one of those measuring dealies, but personally, I never like bending a tape-measure. It's completely ridiculous, I know, but I'm odd like that.

[Thia Halmades]

Who the heck let Sweeny Todd on the board?

Welcome, rep, etc. etc. Careful, I bite. :D

[psychoticbarber]

Who the heck let Sweeny Todd on the board?

Welcome, rep, etc. etc. Careful, I bite. :D

Well, I have to claim a lack of prior knowledge of Sweeny Todd. First I heard of him is from the movie ads recently, and I created my first psychoticbarber identity back three years ago on KoL.

Thanks for the welcome!

[Alcamtar]

Question, generally the suggestion for moving diagonally on a square is that it's 1.5" (rounded down), would that also work for moving corner to corner on a hex?

It is not hard to compute...

The length of one edge of a hex = width x sqrt(3)
The distance from the center to any corner = same as edge length
The distance from corner to corner through the center = 2 x edge length

So for a 2m hex,
edge length = 1.1547m
corner-corner length = 2.3094m
A diagonal move between hexes would involve moving to the corner of your hex, along the edge between the next two hexes, and then to the center of the destination hex. That is a distance equal to three edge-lengths, or about 3.5m ... 1 3/4" per diagonal move.

You can use that as-is, round up to 2" (it's not a huge savings) or round it down to 1.5" (like D&D) as you prefer.

In D&D3, you count the first diagonal move as 2", the second as 1", the third as 2", the fourth as 1", etc. This is easy to count, handles turns and zigzags in your path, and averages out to 1.5" per diagonal.

In Hero, count the first diagonal move as 2", then 1.5", then 2", then 1.5", etc. This averages out to 1.75" per diagonal move, is almost as easy to use as the D&D version, and has the same advantages in play. (Round half inches up or down as you see fit.)