How about 2005?

[BobGreenwade]

I know Steve & co. aren't really ready yet to put a lot of energy into such decisions, but I'm curious about what the community at large thinks.

Now that the 2004 schedule is out, what would y'all like to see for 2005?

One of the Hero Guys (I think it was Darren) said something about Pulp Hero being likely for that summer, and I think it's probably the best choice for the next genre book.

In terms of Ultimate books, I think I'd most like to see The Ultimate Energy Projector and The Ultimate Speedster. If I could pick one more, it'd be The Ultimate Gadgeteer.

For setting books, I'd like to see Tuala Morn, The Interstellar Age, and Golden Age Champions.

Some sort of compendium of weapons, armor, and other equipment for Fantasy Hero games (probably geared to one of the three main fantasy settings) would be cool too.

Following up Villainy Amok with something for science fiction and/or fantasy would be great too -- call them Technology Amok and Magic Amok.

I also personally think it would be very cool to expand Worlds Of Empire (depending on its sales) with a series of books about each of the extraterrestrial societies in the Hero Universe. I'm personally fascinated by the Mon'dabi (and I expect that fascination to increase when I get my hands on TE), but I can see several good reasons to start off instead with the Hzeel.

A book covering the Xenovores, as encountered in the Alien Wars setting, would also be a good item to have.

To expand the Champions Universe a bit, sourcebooks on ARGENT and the IHA would be cool. A thread on the 2004 schedule brought up the idea of Tournament Of The Dragon (a redux of WotD) and a second edition of Corporations, both of which I'd definitely jump on.

I'd also be interested in seeing something like (for lack of a better title right now) The Implacables, a sourcebook for Galactic Champions all the great mega-villains who have survived from this millennium until that one (starting with Mechanon, Doctor Destroyer, Isthatha V'han, Takofanes, and Tyrannon -- but not stopping there).

Well, those are the ramblings that have come out of the breeze between my own ears... any other opinions?

---

Note: The opinions expressed in this thread, unless posted by actual Hero Games employees and clearly expressed as such, do not constitute an official announcement by Hero Games regarding any book or books.

[Monolith]

Pulp Hero is something I definately would want to see for 2005; as well as some support material for the genre book.

I would also like to see a new "Enemies" book on the schedule; after two years people will be getting sick of the ones in CKC. I would hope by 2005 DOJ would flesh-out the CU so that we have information on IHA, ARGENT, PRIMUS, and any other criminal or law enforcement organizations by the end of that year as well.

As far as Ultimate books, we need Armor to appease The Imperial Khan. :) I would also like to see the weaponry book you mentioned; though that might be covered in Gadgets. Really any of the Ultimate books might be good.

I would not mind seeing some of the other "World" books I mentioned in another thread. Another adventure or two could be handy as well.

I have no real interest in Fantasy Hero, so I won't make any comments on that.

As far as Star Hero goes, we will have a complete supply of campaign books, but I think we will be needing more support material for each of those campaign worlds. The campaign books are concise but they do not cover every single aspect of those worlds anymore than Champions Universe covers every single aspect of the Champions world.

It is really hard to think that far out when there is so much in-between I have not wrapped my mind around yet. :) Basically I just want to see gaming material that will add to my playing time and helps take away from my designing time.

[SAVeira]

Originally posted by Monolith
I would also like to see a new "Enemies" book on the schedule; after two years people will be getting sick of the ones in CKC. I would hope by 2005 DOJ would flesh-out the CU so that we have information on IHA, ARGENT, PRIMUS, and any other criminal or law enforcement organizations by the end of that year as well.

Have to really agree with you there. I have always felt there need to be at least one new "Enemies" book a year. Also, there is so much of the CU world that truly screams out to be fleshed. Leave it long and interest can die.


S.A. Veira

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by SAVeira
Have to really agree with you there. I have always felt there need to be at least one new "Enemies" book a year. Also, there is so much of the CU world that truly screams out to be fleshed. Leave it long and interest can die.

S.A. Veira
Well, aside from the fact that each of the "Subsetting" books will most likely include several, if not a couple dozen, characters each, the Meriquai Falls ebook is currently slated to include 50 characters that will be easily portable into the CU. They're not official to the CU, but they're something. :D

(end shameless plug)

That said, for 2005, I have to agree on a new "Enemies" book. I'd also like to see a Pulp Hero sourcebook.

Another idea that might be neat to entertain, if even for the Hero Plus line, is a "Ultimate Fantasy" line. Books with such imaginative titles at "Ultimate Fantasy Occupations" (which would present occupational package deals and detail them in incredible detail, even giving sample magical powers if need be), "Ultimate Fantasy Abilities" (which would present many spells, spell-like abilities, and "feats" characters and monsters could possess in a fantasy setting), and "Ultimate Fantasy Races" (write your own description for this one...) would grace this line. Talk about spicing up your fantasy or science-fantasy campaigns! :D

Anyway, just my two-cents worth. ;)

[Dr. Anomaly]

My personal wish-list would include Pulp Hero (yes, I, too, was disappointed by it not being in 2004, but I'd rather wait a bit for a book the quality of those DOJ has been putting out), Golden Age Champions, and The Ultimate Gadgeteer.

Hmmm...sudden thought...a nice "expansion" for Terran Empire could be a series of short articles in Digital Hero (or on a Terran Empire Resources web page?) each of which details one world, city, port, ship/ship class, newly-discovered minor race, culture, business, or what-have-you -- in other words, a series of nice little tidbits ready to be dropped neatly into place in our own games.

Of course, said series of short articles would require members of HEROdom to write them for the rest of us...any takers? :D

[Derek Hiemforth]

At risk of getting lynched by the mob here, I'd like to register a vote against too many more Enemies books for Champions Universe. (Derek ducks the thrown debris.)

CKC has a lot of enemies in it already. Champions and Champions Universe each have a few. I'm sure future CU products will also have some. And of course, most GM's will add some of their own creation.

If we were also adding another whole Enemies book per year, that would be an awful lot of villains for one hapless setting to deal with, don't you think? ;)

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any new Enemies books, but I'd prefer they not be as common as they were in "the old days." If another one the size of CKC was done in 2005, that would be plenty of villains and plenty soon, IMO. I'd much rather see only the best and most interesting villains make it to print, than to see mediocre ones thrown together to make the year's "quota." :)

On the other hand, I definitely like the idea of doing a big Enemies book like CKC as one of the early follow-ups for each setting book... not just Champions Universe. :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
If we were also adding another whole Enemies book per year, that would be an awful lot of villains for one hapless setting to deal with, don't you think? ;)
Considerin there are 88 named superheroes in the Universe in the USA alone (and many more who are unnamed), I do not think 100 villains go too far. :)

I do not think we need an "Enemies" book every year as long as Champions products continue to increase the villain total, but I do think that adding another 100 every couple of years in a new "Enemies" book is a good thing.

[BobGreenwade]

I'd like to weigh in to support the idea of about one Champions enemies book per year.

There's plenty of room for it. As pointed out, there are plenty of NPC heroes to go around, so there should be enough villains to have them "overworked" (making a clear need for the PC heroes).

More significantly, not all villains are appropriate for all campaigns. For example, a high-tech campaign could have (to pick from the villains published so far) Mechanon, Doctor Destroyer, Devastator, the Warlord, VIPER, and occasionally the likes of GRAB, Eurostar, PSI, or the Ultimates. Allowing that some of these foes are either overly powerful for a beginning group or only tenuous in their connection to high technology, a few more are needed -- a space that a second edition of High-Tech Enemies (or, possibly, The Technological World as a continuation of the series started by The Mystic World) could fill.

A similar principle would hold for other possible emphases for Champions campaigns: aliens, mutants, psionics, martial arts, mercenaries, and so forth.

[Chris Goodwin]

How about Robot Warriors 2nd Edition, The Ultimate Mecha, or whatever you want to call it. Even Anime Hero as long as it includes loads of hot crunchy big metal goodness. :)

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
At risk of getting lynched by the mob here, I'd like to register a vote against too many more Enemies books for Champions Universe. (Derek ducks the thrown debris.)


If we were also adding another whole Enemies book per year, that would be an awful lot of villains for one hapless setting to deal with, don't you think? ;)



I'm going to back Derek on this one. I would rather see quality over quantity any day.

I don't believe I'm unique in this aspect, but how many GM's ever use even the best designed Villians as is? I'm prone to redesign almost anything I intend on using anyway. Heck, in the old days, since many of the characters were built either wrong or the math was incorrect, you had to do this anyway. Add to this, the number of other supergames producing villains (I too have swiped Factor Four as a villain group and rewrote them in Champions format and lifted several of the German supersoldiers from the new Godlike supplement for future use in a WWII setting), we're not exactly hurting for villains.

The only thing I occassionaly enjoy with the villain books is the uncommon innovative power design.

[Balok]

For new "enemies" books, I'd like to vote *against* theme books (like Hi-Tech Enemies). My concern is that attempting to populate a book entirely with enemies that fit a theme can lead to dumb characters.

A genre book I'd like to see, at some point, would be Conspiracy Hero. Right now, the niche might be a little populated, but long about 2005 or 2006, there might be room for a new entry. The sort of book I'm talking about would offer GM's tips on how to establish believable conspiracies, how to manage "shades of grey" campaigns effectively -- not only players who are greyish, but also opponents that don't easily fall into the good/evil dichotomy. I could see this as a good follow on for Pulp Hero.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by archer
How about Robot Warriors 2nd Edition, The Ultimate Mecha, or whatever you want to call it. Even Anime Hero as long as it includes loads of hot crunchy big metal goodness. :) Actually The Ultimate Vehicle started out as The Ultimate Giant Robot (the term mecha wasn't quite in vogue yet). But I'd certainly love to see a second edition of Robot Warriors as a Star Hero subgenre book in '05.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Balok
For new "enemies" books, I'd like to vote *against* theme books (like Hi-Tech Enemies). My concern is that attempting to populate a book entirely with enemies that fit a theme can lead to dumb characters. I don't think you have to worry too much about that. Steve's being an extreme stickler for quality here, a quality that only enhances the experience for writer and player alike. A genre book I'd like to see, at some point, would be Conspiracy Hero. Right now, the niche might be a little populated, but long about 2005 or 2006, there might be room for a new entry. The sort of book I'm talking about would offer GM's tips on how to establish believable conspiracies, how to manage "shades of grey" campaigns effectively -- not only players who are greyish, but also opponents that don't easily fall into the good/evil dichotomy. I could see this as a good follow on for Pulp Hero. A book covering a genre that hasn't yet been touched on by Hero would be cool. I mean, even with Cyber Hero, Horror Hero, and Western Hero somewhere over the horizon, I think there's a lot more that can be done, and Conspiracy Hero is just one good example. Others that come to mind include Mystery Hero, Pirate Hero, and Saturday Morning Hero -- even Cave Hero could present some interesting twists. ;)

[Dynamo]

Ultimate _______ books. I love those things. Topping my wishlist for 2005 would be, in order, U. Energy Projector, U. Speedster, U. Armor, U. Gadgeteer, and U. Mentalist. (I know I certainly won't all five that year, but I can dream.)

Other than that, I'm really looking forward to Dark Champions: The Animated Series and whatever Champions support I can get my mitts on.

Not a big fan of Pulp. May stick with Fantasy Hero itself out of the Fantasy line. Same with Star Hero. Although, I may get sucked into the setting support for Star Hero and Fantasy Hero and change my mind...

[Dynamo]

Crud, killed another thread. What is it, my breath?

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Dynamo
Crud, killed another thread. What is it, my breath?
It is the helmet. It is scary to behold beneath your name. :)

[Dynamo]

Originally posted by Monolith
It is the helmet. It is scary to behold beneath your name. :) Cool. That I can live with.

[keithcurtis]

I for one wouldn't mind seeing the Ultimate Armor combined with the Ultimate Weapon. I figure there's a lot of rule interaction there and it would be convenient to have it all in one book.

Keith "But I'm cheap thta way" Curtis

[Starwolf]

Definately Pulp Hero. But something on the Victorian era, the colonial era circa 1400 to 1800. Pirates and Tall Ships would also be cool.

[Steve Long]

I for one wouldn't mind seeing the Ultimate Armor combined with the Ultimate Weapon. I figure there's a lot of rule interaction there and it would be convenient to have it all in one book.

I hate to dash your hopes, but that ain't happenin'. ;)

I'm not even sure I can fit TUW into a single volume due to the amount of information involved. I certainly can't cram armor in there, too. ;)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Steve Long
I hate to dash your hopes, but that ain't happenin'. ;)

I'm not even sure I can fit TUW into a single volume due to the amount of information involved. I certainly can't cram armor in there, too. ;)
Not even the stats for a simple bear-skin vest? :)

[Crimson-Hawk]

Originally posted by Monolith
Not even the stats for a simple bear-skin vest? :)

'Fraid not, Monolith.

However, if we were to make TUW twice the size of FRED and only stuck with archaic weapons and armors, we might be able to combine the two.

I proposed the idea, but the most important person who was taking me seriously on the matter got his attention distracted when Steve tossed a catnip ball across the room. :D

[GestaltBennie]

Well, I'm pretty happy with what we're getting (especially that Villainy Amok thing :-)), but here's my wish list:

1. Pulp Hero. Complete with revised Lands of Mystery.
2. Strike Force, 5th edition. The hobby needs a sourcebook that's so well-written that it'll make everyone else in the industry look like rank amateurs.
3. An Epic Superhero Adventure. I want something big. I want the Masks of Nyarlathotep or the Murder on the Orient Express of superhero gaming, an adventure that's so mind-boggling good that even people who take pride in not using published adventures will not be able to keep themselves from smearing its ink over their grubby little fingers. I want an adventure that blows the lid off everything that's been published for this genre before.
4. Destroyer, the definitive sourcebook for the good Doctor, to show people what a master villain should be like.
5. Sidekick. I want to see what a simplified Hero would look like if it wasn't saddled with someone trying to kludge it with RTG's CP systems.

Scott Bennie

[SAVeira]

Originally posted by GestaltBennie
Well, I'm pretty happy with what we're getting (especially that Villainy Amok thing :-)), but here's my wish list:

1. Pulp Hero. Complete with revised Lands of Mystery.
2. Strike Force, 5th edition. The hobby needs a sourcebook that's so well-written that it'll make everyone else in the industry look like rank amateurs.
3. An Epic Superhero Adventure. I want something big. I want the Masks of Nyarlathotep or the Murder on the Orient Express of superhero gaming, an adventure that's so mind-boggling good that even people who take pride in not using published adventures will not be able to keep themselves from smearing its ink over their grubby little fingers. I want an adventure that blows the lid off everything that's been published for this genre before.
4. Destroyer, the definitive sourcebook for the good Doctor, to show people what a master villain should be like.
5. Sidekick. I want to see what a simplified Hero would look like if it wasn't saddled with someone trying to kludge it with RTG's CP systems.

Scott Bennie

If Steve okay that list, put me down for one of the first four and five of the fifth item (makes a great gift to get people into Hero. :D


S.A. Veira

[Monolith]

Originally posted by GestaltBennie
5. Sidekick. I want to see what a simplified Hero would look like if it wasn't saddled with someone trying to kludge it with RTG's CP systems.
I had completely forgotten about HERO Sidekick. I think this should definately be on the schedule for 2005. This should even been on the 2004 schedule, as a book like this could go a long way toward bringing new people into the game system.

[Super Squirrel]

Originally posted by Steve Long
I hate to dash your hopes, but that ain't happenin'. ;)

I'm not even sure I can fit TUW into a single volume due to the amount of information involved. I certainly can't cram armor in there, too. ;)
This calls for The Ultimate Melee Weapon and The Ultimate Ranged Weapon. :D

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Super Squirrel
This calls for The Ultimate Melee Weapon and The Ultimate Ranged Weapon. :D Or, just to keep the titles focused on the characters, maybe they can be called The Ultimate Brawler and The Ultimate Marksman.

[djday38]

Just wanted to give my wish list and bump this thread at the same time.

1. Another Enemies book, I agree every other year would be great, make it the same length (100+ villains) and quality and you have an amazing resource. Every year would be overkill especially with other villains turning up in products and DH.

2. More sourcebooks like the Mystic World, fleshing out sections of the CU, maybe the mutant world, the science world, etc, etc.

3. One or two Ultimate books, whatever is due up by that time, you can't go wrong with these babies.

4. Another vote for a real great, long, twisted, exciting CU adventure, which shows off many of it's great characters and locations. Maybe do one major adventure per year, but make sure it's really special.
Does not have to be a cosmic event, or big summer crossover, but something which shows off one or more of the big CU master villains each time. Maybe one could showcase Mechanon, another Gravitar, also make it an opportunity to give us some more characters hero/villain which have only been mentioned thus far.

5. Golden Age Champions. Give us the ultimate resource for Champions gaming and the Champions CU during the war years. like your planning to do with Galactic champions give us plenty of characters, the membership of the DOJ, their evil nazi counterparts, solo heroes active at the time and the homefront villains complicating matters for everyone back in the US. Make sure you give us plenty of characters from the other warring nations such as Britain, France, Italy, Russia, Japan, Maybe a couple from more lesser known counries or areas which saw a lot of WW2 action such as north africa, the balkans, china, denmark, the middle east, australia etc, etc.

as you can tell I am mainly a Champions GM.

rgds
Dean

[Yamo]

Horror! Horror! I WANT HORROR!

Please, please, please hurry up with Horror HERO.

DO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I mean, I buy all the HERO products just to support Steve and company, even the ones for genres I don't like and know I'll never play in (like superheroes). But if not HH in 2005, then when? I would feel like a real idiot waiting and waiting and buying and buying for more than three years waiting IN VAIN on my favorite genre book. Patience will eventually give out, you know?

Besides, I think I have an airtight case! Observe:

Horror is one of the most enduring and popular RPG genres. Look at Vampire, Call of Cthulhu, Unknown Armies and other such games. Horror sells! If you print it, they will come!

Not only that, but HERO System really needs to stretch its wings and brave some bold new territory if it's going to accepted as a truly generic system like, say, GURPs is. Maybe the last Horror HERO book didn't sell too well. But I propose that's because it just wasn't up to snuff! Everyone I know who's read it has agreed that it was sub-par for previous edition work, nevermind the high standards that the new Hero Games has set for its products. These days, DoJ could hit that one out of the park with one typing hand tied behind their backs!

And before anyone says that horror is a "meta-genre" and therefore not worthy of a book, I interject with POPPYCOCK! What genre are Friday the 13th, Night of the Living Dead, and Reanimator, huh, smartypants? Meta-genre, indeed! *insert various scoffing noises here* ;) Even if some would-be academic disagrees, "horror" has more than enough of a distinct identity for society as a whole to treat it as a fiction genre unto itself. Roleplaying as a whole has done so for years.

Anyway, it's only been a year and I'm already beating my head against the wall here. Don't make me wait until 2006 or later! That would be cruel and unusual and surely no moral game designer could condone such treatment. Right?

Okay, now I'm just grasping at straws, but I'm DESPERATE.

HORROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!!! :(

P.S. I'll be executing one HERO PC hostage each hour until the regime yields to my demands. All hail the glorious Revolution! :D

[tiger]

Let's see:

1) A second CKC book

2)More Ultimate books., Mentalist, Mage, Armor, Speedster, Weapons, Gadgets,

3)Inteads of more "___ Age" Campaign Book, I'd like to see more indepth into the existing ones. Larger write ups of agencies/groups that the PC's meet. More on the races, cities, planets, realms etc. Mayber more indepth into certain areas of the published City Books. Maybe a work up of the downtown of Vibron Bay and some plot ideas for the sector. Maybe the right up of a deep dark cavern under one of the cities in the FH ____ Age book. Something along this line.

4)Like to see a agency type CKC. Large book with several villain groups and their bases, agents, weapons and vehicles, plot ideas.

5) Dr D. book. One book with his stats, the bots, bases, agents, weapons, vehicles, new villains and of course a couple plot idea or 10.

6)I not sure that some of the other genre's, like Western Hero, Cyber Hero, Pulp Hero, warrent there own large book. So maybe a book with 2 gener's in them. Maybe a Western HEro/Pulp Hero, Cyber Here/Horror Hero.

[tiger]

Let's see:

1) The complex or Stronghold. WOuld love to see a new work up for the super jail.

2) A second CKC book

3)More Ultimate books., Mentalist, Mage, Armor, Speedster, Weapons, Gadgets,

4)Insteads of more "___ Age" Campaign Book, I'd like to see more indepth into the existing ones. Larger write ups of agencies/groups that the PC's meet. More on the races, cities, planets, realms etc. Mayber more indepth into certain areas of the published City Books. Maybe a work up of the downtown of Vibron Bay and some plot ideas for the sector. Maybe the right up of a deep dark cavern under one of the cities in the FH ____ Age book. Something along this line.

5)Like to see a agency type CKC. Large book with several villain groups and their bases, agents, weapons and vehicles, plot ideas.

6) Dr D. book. One book with his stats, the bots, bases, agents, weapons, vehicles, new villains and of course a couple plot idea or 10.

7)I not sure that some of the other genre's, like Western Hero, Cyber Hero, Pulp Hero, warrent there own large book. So maybe a book with 2 gener's in them. Maybe a Western HEro/Pulp Hero, Cyber Here/Horror Hero.

[Koshka]

7)I not sure that some of the other genre's, like Western Hero, Cyber Hero, Pulp Hero, warrent there own large book. So maybe a book with 2 gener's in them. Maybe a Western HEro/Pulp Hero, Cyber Here/Horror Hero.

I would buy Pulp Hero: The Standalone Book in a heartbeat, but if I had to buy a half-sized Western Hero in order to get a half-sized Pulp Hero I'd have to think about it. I know some people who would enjoy a Cyber Hero book but wouldn't be interested in the Horror Hero bound inside the same cover.

I think it would be best to keep each genre in a separate book. That way, someone with no interest in Genre A doesn't feel ripped off by having to pay for the Genre A stuff in his new Genre A/B book (B being the genre he really wanted).

[BobGreenwade]

It's starting to look like the toolkitting books (USPD and ST) are being very popular, and I'm sure FHG, USVS, and G&G will follow suit. Maybe more powers and equipment books would be a good idea -- such as the oft-suggested super-skills book for Dark Champions and Pulp, perhaps an alien powers book for Star Hero and Champions (probably also usable in Fantasy), a Hero System Arsenal (as a follow-up to The Ultimate Weapon), a Ninja Hero martial arts powers book (Secrets Of The Yengtao Temple), and such. :)

[tiger]

Although I doubt it will ever be done, but never say never, I'd like to see a Ultimate or Until Disadvantage Database book.

Just a book that list numerous uses for each of the disadvatages in the various Hero books.

[Crimson Arrow]

As the song says, "There's the things I want, there's the things I think I want."

First, what does HERO need? While everyone's come up with great ideas, I think the only one which could be described as a "need" (probably not even that), is Sidekick. HERO (arguably) needs a lite version to hook people and increase the fanbase. More players/buyers equals more revenue, equals more staff and more product. I know that's simplistic and I get the impression that DOJ don't want to expand too rapidly, but it's a way of MAYBE getting a larger amount of the books everyone on this thread has asked for.

Second, what would HERO supporters want? I think the overall trend is for source material (calls for genre books and Ultimate titles). On the former, I'd like them too. I'd rather see Horror than Western or Pulp HERO. I liked the first Horror Hero, while the Western one was a bit lacking (only a bit). I think people could come up with info on the Wild West themselves and maybe Pulp, but the horror genre has special considerations (high death rate among PCs, insanity, creating suitable moods). Love to see 5th Ed Dark Champions.

One problem with proliferating genres is that you then create a demand for settings, characters, bestiaries etc. Not wrong in itself, but I'm sure you see where I'm going - DOJ aren't WOTC and probably have not the slightest desire to be.

As to "Ultimate" books, I love these guys. However, don't you think that further USPD volumes would cover things such as bricks, speedsters, metamorphs and energy projectors? In view of the online USPD, the books could partially write themselves, although they need to be laid out, artwork commisioned etc. I appreciate it's a bit haphazard and also that you don't get the level of detail on playing mystics and astral forms etc., but it's a question of priorities. That leaves things like armour, weapons, skills and disadvantages to be dealt with in Ultimate books now (rather than later).

Third, we go for what people like. Well, I think there's so much here that people have already mentioned that there's no need for me to repeat them. However, DOJ seem to have pretty good business sense and I agree with their decision to shy away from adventures. A book of plot seeds/ random plot generators might be nice, but maybe that can be done online or in an e-book. One CKC every two years should be OK, but future volumes should not have many master villains. You can have lots of Green Goblins, but there is only one Doom!

[Nightshade]

I would have to echo the call for another Horror HERO. While I liked the 4th ed one, I do think that another one is needed.

One thing, though, that should be remembered, I am pretty sure that most of the people on the boards here probably buy the majority of the HERO products that are released. I think that the best post on this thread so far was the one stating why Horror HERO should be produced (besides the whining, of course) because he stated what the market in general is doing with the genre, and how a Horror HERO product would fit in with that fan base. His reasoning, in my mind, is compelling.

That being said, I think that Pulp HERO should be the first genre book of 2005. Why? Because this is a niche that is not particularly taken up by a lot of other products. This means it is a niche that has good potential for sales.

Much as I like Horror more than Pulp, I think that Pulp should have priority.

Nightshade

[BobGreenwade]

Well, the original question asked about what we'd like to see in 2005, not what we think the Hero Guys should do.

Of course, now that I've gotten my hands on Terran Empire, my own opinion has changed somewhat. I want lots and lots of support books for that setting. I'd really like to see at least two "alien empire" books (the Ackalians and the Thorgons seem the most logical, though the Mon'dabi would be cool too), a second volume of the Spacer's Toolkit, and maybe an alien powers book. ;)

[tiger]

This is actually what I meant in a previous post. I'd like to see the put out more material for released settings than to continue to put out different setting for the same genre.

Just me widdle two cents

[Monolith]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Of course, now that I've gotten my hands on Terran Empire, my own opinion has changed somewhat. I want lots and lots of support books for that setting. I'd really like to see at least two "alien empire" books (the Ackalians and the Thorgons seem the most logical, though the Mon'dabi would be cool too), a second volume of the Spacer's Toolkit, and maybe an alien powers book. ;)
I agree with everything you just said above. Heck, I would even like to see an expanded Terran Empire book to go along with those Ackalian and Thorgon books! Unfortunately it appears that Terran Empire is a poor seller and probably will not be supported beyond the Worlds of Empire and Scourges of the Galaxy next year. Hopefully we will be able to get some pdf material to keep this campaign world alive for the fans.

For some strange reason DOJ has decided that it should have 1 superhero campaign (Champions Universe) but 3 scifi and 3 fantasy campaign worlds. I personally would prefer to see DOJ produce and support only 1 campaign world per genre, but that is just me.

[allen]

Originally posted by Monolith
For some strange reason DOJ has decided that it should have 1 superhero campaign (Champions Universe) but 3 scifi and 3 fantasy campaign worlds.

I can't speak for the Galatic Federation setting, but I do think Alien Wars will be useful for a Terran Empire GM... maybe not as immediately useful as Spacer's Toolkit and other TE specific supplements, but still something to pull plot ideas from since it deals with the 100 years prior to the establishment of the Empire. You know, stuff like derelict starships in hyper-space, 'whatever happened to Alpha Bravo Company,' why is such-and-such planet a radiation-soaked wasteland -- plus loads of details about the Xenovores, and while the race might no longer be a threat to the Empire per se surviving Xenovores can certainly serve as a threat to the PCs for an adventure or two.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by allen
I can't speak for the Galatic Federation setting, but I do think Alien Wars will be useful for a Terran Empire GM... maybe not as immediately useful as Spacer's Toolkit and other TE specific supplements, but still something to pull plot ideas from since it deals with the 100 years prior to the establishment of the Empire. You know, stuff like derelict starships in hyper-space, 'whatever happened to Alpha Bravo Company,' why is such-and-such planet a radiation-soaked wasteland -- plus loads of details about the Xenovores, and while the race might no longer be a threat to the Empire per se surviving Xenovores can certainly serve as a threat to the PCs for an adventure or two.
I certainly agree that there will be a lot of useful info in Alien Wars (Xenovore technology, some possible additional information on other worlds - hopefully some Heartworlds info), but I do not think the degree of usefulness will be extremely high. It would be somewhat like DOJ producing "Pulp New York: The Age of the Empire Club" and expecting that book to have anything more than a minor impact on your CU game. We loyal Hero supporters will buy the book and milk whatever we can from it, but it is still not the same as getting a book which supports the game you are already playing. :)

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Monolith
For some strange reason DOJ has decided that it should have 1 superhero campaign (Champions Universe) but 3 scifi and 3 fantasy campaign worlds. Are you forgetting about the Golden Age of Champions, the Silver Age, and Galactic Champions? (Not to mention that I think you've missed at least one Fantasy and one Sci-Fi setting in the series.)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
Are you forgetting about the Golden Age of Champions, the Silver Age, and Galactic Champions? (Not to mention that I think you've missed at least one Fantasy and one Sci-Fi setting in the series.)
I am certainly not forgetting them but I am really only mentioning the books which will be produced within within the next 18 months (anything could happen beyond that point). I did forget about Galactic Champions, but I do think that GC also serves my point. Campaigns which are not supported with follow-up product are not as interesting to me as those which do have support.

I might run a 3-6 session Galactic Champions game but if there are no follow-up books (villains, organizations, and world information) the game will never evolve past a short-term venture. I just do not have the time, or desire, to create everything in a campaign from scratch. I am sure many people do, especially the younger fans, but those of us in our 30-40s have many other time considerations to make. I personally do not want to spend 5 hours a week creating information for a game which only lasts 5 hours every two weeks. :)

I will be happy to buy all the books produced (one of the advantages to being in the 30-40 age group is some expandable cash), but if they contain information which is not easily usable in my game it will always leave a slightly bitter taste in my mouth.

I am also not just picking on Alien Wars or Galactic Federation. I would be happy to play in either of those campaigns, but not if there is not going to be any support product for them. I would feel the same way if we were discussing Golden Age Champions or Pulp New York: The Age of the Empire Club or any other campaign world set in the HERO Universe. But I am just one fan and DOJ is going to get my money no matter what. :)

[Lord Liaden]

Hmm... I see your point, Monolith, but I'm not sure how applicable "lack of support" issues are to Champions games. Since the default CU is, like many comic book worlds, our own Earth with the addition of superbeings, a great deal of information about its various eras is common knowledge. There isn't as great a need for history, culture or technology notes in a sourcebook about the Golden Age as there would be for the far future, for example. And it's usually not too difficult to "file the serial numbers" off villains and other NPCs from a contemporary sourcebook like Conquerors, Killers and Crooks and use them in a different era, particularly if you have a sourcebook with notes on how to run characters in a Golden or Silver Age game, which I'm assuming the appropriate sourcebooks will have.

As far as Galactic Champions goes, since it will be set in the era of the Galactic Federation, I'm betting that that Star HERO sourcebook plus my GC will give me all the background info I need. :)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
As far as Galactic Champions goes, since it will be set in the era of the Galactic Federation, I'm betting that that Star HERO sourcebook plus my GC will give me all the background info I need. :)
Actually Galactic Champions is set 300 years after Galactic Federation and when you figure in the upswing to technology due to the magic influence (your level 13-14 ATRI tech just jumped to about level 18) I do not think the book will be quite so useful. It will have about the same usefulness that a Revolutionary Champions book would have to CU players. :)

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Monolith
Actually Galactic Champions is set 300 years after Galactic Federation and when you figure in the upswing to technology due to the magic influence (your level 13-14 ATRI tech just jumped to about level 18) I do not think the book will be quite so useful. It will have about the same usefulness that a Revolutionary Champions book would have to CU players. :)

Certainly according to the timeline in the Hero Universe PDF the beginning of the Galactic Federation era starts at around the year 2700, but it continues until "at least the year 3000," which is when Galactic Champions starts. The implication to me is that the Federation book will deal at least to some degree with events and situations over that 300 year span, which would match the approach taken in Terran Empire. I guess we'll see if that's true.

[rjcurrie]

Personally, Monolith, I think you have a very narrow view of what is useful to a GM in a modern CU campaign. Time travel is a common element in many comic book stories. And often, such trips through time are to other superheroic eras. For example, in the DC universe, there are many examples of heroes travelling to the future of the Legion of Superheroes, the Golden Age of the Justice Society of America, or the Silver Age of Barry Allen's Flash and Hal Jordan's Green Lantern. Not to mention characters from those eras travelling to the modern DC era. And of course, there are characters such as the Shining Knight and Jason Blood/Etrigan (the Demon) whose origins are tied to the court of Camelot.

Or what about players who want to play characters who are a part of a long legacy of heroes. In which case, the books on the Golden Age and Silver Age of the CU may help give them a better idea of what the earlier ages' versions of the characters were like. Look at how the modern day Flash and Green Lantern (Wally West and Kyle Rayner) differ from the early holders of those names (Barry Allen and Jay Garrick for Flash, and Hal Jordan and Alan Scott for Green Lantern).

And of course, there have been stories in the Marvel Universe like lthe one in X-Men (which I wish I remembered more clearly) where a sorceress (I think) brought forth elements of the Hyborean (or similar) age to New York city creating a weird mix of the two. There was also a Marvel Team-up issue featuring Spider-Man and Red Sonja, where the spirit of Robert E. Howard's Red Sonja somehow ended up inhabiting the body of Mary Jane Watson.

And these are just a few examples that I have thought of when writing this reply. I'm sure there are many more. And I think that many GMs using the modern CU can think of additional ways in which information from other setting, genre, and sub-genre books can be used in their campaigns.

Rod

[djday38]

I agree with RJ Currie, Captain Chronos will become a major NPC in my game so I can make full use of other sourcebooks and eras, this will aslo serve as a very welcome change of pace whenever it is needed.

Even looking at the normal CU books ideas for time travel are rife especially with all the NPC's we have been given from different eras (Black Mask, Scarlet Shield, Storm bird for DH, etc).

rgds
Dean

[Monolith]

Originally posted by rjcurrie
And these are just a few examples that I have thought of when writing this reply. I'm sure there are many more. And I think that many GMs using the modern CU can think of additional ways in which information from other setting, genre, and sub-genre books can be used in their campaigns.
I never said the material was not useful Rod. What I said was that I would milk it for what I could get out of it, but that having an Alien Wars or Galactic Federation campaign book is not as useful for someone who is playing a Terran Empire campaign as having actual Terran Empire information (in the same way that having Pulp Hero information is not that useful to someone in a CU campaign - and most Champions games to not focus heavily on time travel; in most cases time travel is a short story arc, not 50% or more of a continuing campaign).

Neither AW, GF, or Galactic Champions will be supported campaign worlds; and my opinion is if you are not going to support them you should use your resources on projects you are going to support. That seemed to be your point as well when, during a Monday chat, you were urging Darren to abandon the entire scifi line and to use their resources elsewhere. The only difference between the two of us is that you want DOJ to drop the entire scifi line whereas I want them to focus their attention one specific line. That way the scifi fans do not feel completely ignored.

I have this gut feeling that DOJ has shifted gears and is now following the production plan of the old ICE/Hero Games. ICE had this tendency to pop out books just for the sake of publishing them, but never intended to support them. Books like Western Hero, Cyber Hero, etc. These books were published with the hope that the small percentage of fans who enjoy that genre would buy them (incidentally this is the same marketing scheme which TSR used when it produced all of its various fantasy worlds as well). That scheme failed drastically for both ICE/Hero Games and for TSR; and helped bring both companies to the brink of financial ruin (TSR survived thanks to WotC and Hero almost did not survive at all).

In uncertain economic times you need to spend resources on books which have the broadest appeal to the fanbase. Wasting time and money on niche marketing is not the best way for a company to be run when the market you are attempting to feed is a niche within a niche. I fully believe that until the economy improves DOJ should use its resources to improve the lines it already has in existence (in this case CU, TE, and a single FH line), and then if it is going to expand only do so into markets which they know they have an existing fanbase (and example of this would be the Dark Champions line). The four genres of Champions Universe, Terran Empire, The Turakian Age, and Hudson City should be the four corner posts to the entire HERO chapel. Then once those lines prove successful you can expand and fill in the rest of the support beams.

I would love to buy and read each of the proposed scifi and fantasy books (well, maybe not the fantasy books :) ), but I also want DOJ to be around in 3-4 years so that I can continue to buy new product and get fresh ideas. I do not think the "flood the market with everything" approach has been successful in the past, and I do not think it will be that successful in the present.

[JmOz]

Originally posted by Monolith

For some strange reason DOJ has decided that it should have 1 superhero campaign (Champions Universe) but 3 scifi and 3 fantasy campaign worlds. I personally would prefer to see DOJ produce and support only 1 campaign world per genre, but that is just me.

I got a theroy on this:

The issue in Champions is that yes they want only one "world", but as MOST superhero games are set in the present they have decided instead to put out "City Books" each city fills the same niche as the setting book, so if you want a more Batman type game you will play in Hudson, or a more mystical it will be in VBay...

[BobGreenwade]

Actually I expect AW and GF to have a fair bit of material that a TE GM could use.

Besides more information on the Xenovores and history of the period, I'd expect AW to have more alien species from Federation space, "old" equipment and artifacts that can be used as relics for the TE setting, and various plot seeds that could be translated to TE (just as a little digging could probably find plot seeds in TE that an AW GM could use). Since it's a "military SF" setting, it will probably also have a lot of general tactical information and other ideas that could translate fairly easily for a game focusing on the Imperial Navy (or Marines, or whomever).

The very least I'd expect to see in Galactic Federation is a future perspective showing where the various Imperial-Era major powers are going (only hinted at in the TE book), more alien species, advanced technology that was on the "cutting edge" during the later Imperial Era, and maybe a little more information on what's going on in the big expanse between the Velarians and the Ackalians and Mon'dabi. There probably will be some more information on some extragalactic species -- already the CU has several characters from Andromeda (CKC page 215).

Basically, these two books should be rife with material that can color in the edges of a TE campaign.

[Rigel]

Bob and Rod, I really wonder if you're not getting Mono's point here. Will there be things in AW or GF that can be used in a TE game? Yes, absolutely. Will there be things in Galactic Champions that can be used in a CU game? Yes, absolutely.

Monolith's point (whether you agree or not) is that another book or even a HERO Plus PDF book specifically about people, places and things in the Terran Empire would be more valuable to a TE GM or player. I don't see how you can argue with that.

Now, that being said, I completely understand and agree with what DOJ is doing with its SH products. The TE setting is great (I myself am about to start GM'ing a TE game), but it's not for everyone. Fans of Starship Troopers and/or Aliens are likely going to like AW much more, so why not release a product geared towards that subgenre? I just hope that DOJ doesn't move on to AW or GF support in 2005 and leave TE behind. I don't need more published books (past ST, Worlds of the Empire and Scourges of the Galaxy) but I would like to see more material. I am sure Steve, Allen, et al, could do some wonderful HERO Plus or Digital HERO material to help expand on the TE setting.

[allen]

Concerning Support for Alien Wars

I do intend to write a series of articles in Digital Hero for the setting, starting in January (if that's a skip month, then February). One, likely the first article, will definitely be a adventure intended to get a campaign started. This is in addition to whatever might appear in "Leftover Hero."

The length of the series will likely depend on whether I feel anyone is actually enjoying the articles, but no less than three articles I imagine. Ideally, the series will run for the year; then I would do the same for Valdorian Age when that product is released in late 2004.

Anyway, that's the plan... mice and men, and all that jazz...

(Next year, any work I do on TE will be for Worlds of Empire and Scourges of the Galaxy. I'm also hoping Champions Battlegrounds sells well enough to make a Star Hero Battlegrounds economically feasible.)

(Oh yeah... understood that folk would likely prefer a book or two for AW... but scarce resources, unlimited wants, and you gotta start somewhere.)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by allen
I do intend to write a series of articles in Digital Hero for the setting, starting in January (if that's a skip month, then February). One, likely the first article, will definitely be a adventure intended to get a campaign started. This is in addition to whatever might appear in "Leftover Hero."
Sounds good to me. I am really looking forward to more information on the Heartworld planets (and I am assuming that due to the limited hyperspace technology of the 24th century (it takes nearly 2 years to reach Xenovore space with the hyperdrives of the period) much of the campaign information will focus more on closer planetary systems). Considering that there are 300 million stars just within the Hearthworld circle even if only 1 thousandth of 1 percent have habitable planets you are looking a 3,000 planets and potential lifeform enemies and allies to go along with the Xenovore threat. The more information I can get about "real galaxy" information the easier it becomes to adapt it to my own TE game. ;)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Rigel
Monolith's point (whether you agree or not) is that another book or even a HERO Plus PDF book specifically about people, places and things in the Terran Empire would be more valuable to a TE GM or player. I don't see how you can argue with that.
That is exactly my point. Heck, I am using material from Freedom City, CU 4E, and V&V in my CU game, but that does not mean that a new CU source book is not far more valuable to me. I can adapt anything to work (and have been doing so for years). I would just rather not do any more adapting than is absolutely necessary if I can help it. :)

[Nightshade]

I have to agree with Monolith. Gaming worlds are like book series. They are never really "done," they are abandoned (sometimes, admittedly, for the better). If HERO has more than 4 official settings to support, they are going to get stretched really thin. How many worlds can Steve really create and fully develop? They only have so many writers.

OTOH, the genre books, like Cyber HERO or Pulp HERO or Horror HERO, don't necessarily need settings. Ninja HERO doesn't have one, nor do I think that they are planning one. Perhaps the model is more like this:

HERO 5th ed rule book (constant)
Ultimate series (constant)
Genre books (constant)
Setting books (only for HERO official worlds)
Supplements (adventures, etc. written for official worlds, but needing some changes to drop into any setting).

If they do this, what they have is this (using the Champions Universe example):

Champions Universe line:

FREd (system)
Champions (genre)
Champions Universe (setting)
Golden Age Champions (supplement)
Until Superpowers Database (supplement)
Galactic Champions (supplement)
Conquerors, Killers, & Crooks (supplement)
etc.

This setup also allows for something that was brought up before: more villain books. Golden Age Champions needs them, so does Galactic Champions, etc. The more setting supplements they put out, the more villain supplements are feasible. If Golden Age Champions turns into a hot item, they now have the ability to support not only it, but the genre and setting books all at the same time.

Sounds like a good plan to me. I admit that I don't play a lot of supers (gasp) and use HERO mostly for Fantasy, but if that happened for the Fantasy HERO line, I would be in heaven.

What do you think?

Nightshade