Information on incoming attacks

[Tonio]

How much information do I, as a player, have on incoming attacks by NPCs, besides the obvious? Specifically, do I know which defense applies? Sometimes it's obvious (a guy comes at you with a sword, it's probably rPD), but sometimes it's not (Big Bad Villain shoots a ray of bluish energy at you... could be ED (energy blast), could be rED (RKA vs ED), could be PD ("force" blast), could be PowDef (SFX for a Ranged Drain)). Should the GM let the player know?

Let's say that on a Segment where I don't have a Phase a bad guy shoots me with a power. I want to Abort to a defensive action. Should I put up my high PD force field? Should I throw down my high ED force wall? Should I Dive For Cover? Is it a gamble, or do I have a way of knowing, besides a description of the SFX?

[Sean Waters]

Absent a specific (bought) sense, or possibly the use of the analyse or deduction skills, you know what your normal senses tell you. You have no idea what defences apply, other than in broad terms (if it looks like fire, I'd go for ED) because mechanical defences have no in-game meaning.

You don't even know what defence applies AFTER being hit unless it has become obvious (subtract your Power Defence...).

I'd rule that it is pure guesswork as to which defence you should activate, but then i like to think that my sfx will probably give you a clue anyway. Not getting it right the first time you face an opponent is part of the fun. If you consider being handed your own kidneys fun :D

[Tonio]

Nah, it makes perfect sense. I was just wondering whether there was a rule regarding this, like using something like Analyze: Superpowers or something along those lines.

I do think, though, that once you're hit with the power, you should at the very least have a good idea of what you'd need to defend against it. Else, it just feels like "cheating" by the power owner. GM: "You get hit by a big rock [*throws some dice behind a screen, does some math*]... you take 10 STUN. Player: "Ok, I put up my PD-only Force Field". GM: "You get hit by another big rock [*roll, math*]... you take 12 STUN." Player: "WTH..." GM: "Ha ha, you got fooled by the villain, it's really an EB vs ED with the SFX that it looks like a big rock but it's really a blob of plasma." The Player should know he just got affected by an Energy power, and whether his defenses stopped any of it (i.e. whether it's NND), and if they didn't, how he could avoid it (or else we can get "Well how was I supposed to know grabbing my left knee while singing the Star Spangled Banner would block the plasma-blob-that-looks-like-a-big-rock???"). Ok, so I deliberately picked a nonsensical combination of powers and SFXs. But I think the point still stands.

[Kdansky]

Sure you can Analyze such things with appropriate skills, if you have them... There is probably no catch-all skill. And as a GM, you should really tell the damage rolls *before* applied defenses and tell the players which defense is affected. Everyting else quickly becomes ridiculous, see your example.

[casualplayer]

The fact that you don't know is why some characters get disadvantage points for Psych Lim: Announces Their Intentions in Combat and why KS: Superhumans is a pretty darn handy thing to have. You don't get to peek behind the curtain at the inner workings of your foe, unless you paid points for the abiltiy to peek.

[lemming]

Once you're hit with it, sure thing, full disclosure.

On the whole single vs. area effect, I let the players know since I don't like guessing games. And instinct should be in there.

[Sean Waters]

I'd still be a bit wary: if you get hit by a beam of sparkling black light and feel icy cold (it is a stun drain) I'd probably tell you that it is working against your PowDef if you had any, but if you didn't, then I wouldn't tell you what defences it worked against (even if you HAD the defence, but it was not currently turned on). If you did not have the defence, you wouldn't know if it was a drain or an NND.

Of course if it was the sort of attack you'd felt before then I might drop some clues or allow an INT roll (or appropriate skill) for you to remember that, even if you didn't have the appropriate defence.

[Kdansky]

I assume a character who *has* a certain defense also knows about what it will usually work against. Also note the word "usually" in the former sentence.

[Sean Waters]

I assume a character who *has* a certain defense also knows about what it will usually work against. Also note the word "usually" in the former sentence.

Well sort of: ED will *usually* work against light but you might be facing a AVLD (Flash defence).

Like I say, I'm not there to trick the players, they should be able to have a good guess about what would work even if they don't have the defence, but I'm not going to simply come out and tell them unless they have a sense or KS that will help - otherwise I'm cheating all those players who DID splash out on the sense or KS.

As for AFTER being hit - well, you probably have a lot more information then (like normal ED didn't help), so you can hone your guess that much more.

[Psylint]

So I'm out the other day and Blam get hit with an attack. Seems to me that unless the user of the attack bought it with "invisibility versus effects" I'd know:

1. I got hit by something
2. It hurt
3. How much it hurt
4. What things in my previous experience hurt me in a similar way.

So even if I don't have power defense and get hit by a ranged stun drain or something, I know that it isn't a kinetic force, or a burning like fire, nor does it induce migraines, asphyxia, etc.

Same thing works the other way, if I hit something with an attack, I should be able to determine how much it hurt them (unless they're actively faking or I've bought "invisible to effects")

[Sean Waters]

So I'm out the other day and Blam get hit with an attack. Seems to me that unless the user of the attack bought it with "invisibility versus effects" I'd know:

1. I got hit by something
2. It hurt
3. How much it hurt
4. What things in my previous experience hurt me in a similar way.

So even if I don't have power defense and get hit by a ranged stun drain or something, I know that it isn't a kinetic force, or a burning like fire, nor does it induce migraines, asphyxia, etc.

Same thing works the other way, if I hit something with an attack, I should be able to determine how much it hurt them (unless they're actively faking or I've bought "invisible to effects")


You are right, but in Hero, two completely different attacks can have the same <effect> sfx: they could both 'feel' the same but be built very differently and so work against different defences.

Now in a well built game this sort of thing would only be there for specific plot reasons, but I don't see how as a general principle, you should know what, if any, defence works against an incoming attack, even after feeling the effects, at least not automatically.

In most cases it would be obvious, of at least deduceable, but not always:

We eventually tracked down The Full Moon Killer, but it was more luck than anything else: forensics hadn't just been useless, he'd been using them against us. You see, his power allowed him to kill, but he could decide, with each use of it, what form the damage he caused took...

Killing Attack - Ranged 2 1/2d6, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2) (60 Active Points)

[Psylint]

Point Sean,

But rules querry, does variable sfx allow a typed power to cross-type? i.e. if my 10d6 EB variable sfx is bought original as working against PD, can I change it to work against ED? hmmm...

Part of the advantage of NND, AVLD, Drains etc. is that their used against uncommon defenses, but should, from a balance perspective, they be completely mysterious?

Or should we all invest in "Analyze cause of bodily injury"

[Sean Waters]

Point Sean,

But rules querry, does variable sfx allow a typed power to cross-type? i.e. if my 10d6 EB variable sfx is bought original as working against PD, can I change it to work against ED? hmmm...

Part of the advantage of NND, AVLD, Drains etc. is that their used against uncommon defenses, but should, from a balance perspective, they be completely mysterious?

Or should we all invest in "Analyze cause of bodily injury"

Arguably physical and energy are just sfx, but no, I don't think variable sfx would allow you to swap between pd and ed. They would, however, allow a wound from the KA to look like a bullet hole, a knife wound, blunt trauma, burn damage, chemical damage or, pretty much, anything, I'd have thought, depending on the sfx of the attack at the time.

[Tonio]

I've always wondered about that... what if I want a power that can go against either PD or ED? Of course, a Multipower can cover that... but that might be awkward: I might want the power to be part of an EC, for example.

[Thia Halmades]

How much information do I, as a player, have on incoming attacks by NPCs, besides the obvious? Specifically, do I know which defense applies? Sometimes it's obvious (a guy comes at you with a sword, it's probably rPD), but sometimes it's not (Big Bad Villain shoots a ray of bluish energy at you... could be ED (energy blast), could be rED (RKA vs ED), could be PD ("force" blast), could be PowDef (SFX for a Ranged Drain)). Should the GM let the player know?

Let's say that on a Segment where I don't have a Phase a bad guy shoots me with a power. I want to Abort to a defensive action. Should I put up my high PD force field? Should I throw down my high ED force wall? Should I Dive For Cover? Is it a gamble, or do I have a way of knowing, besides a description of the SFX?

I think I'm going with the majority here; until they're hit with it (so THEY know which defenses to apply) then just your description should be sufficient; whether someone is hurtling a large chunk of depleted Delerium at you (likely an rPD, but it may be an rPD with an rED effect added on, it might be a drain, who knows?) or pulling the trigger on an assault rifle, I always give them the description to create the 'clutch' reaction.

Unless you're Duke, who's made of pure Chuck Norris and takes no damage from anything ever.

EVER. I hate Duke sometimes.