How do i introduce new players?

[Dr Divago]

Some friends of mine "almost agreed" to play Fantasy Hero (1)

But, the problem is: they are completely new to Fantasy Hero... completely new to Hero System at all
and they got a standard game concept, where u found a lot of classes and u need to check the book to see "what can i do?"
(Hero is a different concept, where u first create a toon in your mind, then check through the book to see how can you build your favorite charachter...)

so, how can i introduce this game to the player, avoiding hours spent on "omg wtf is it? what can i do? this game is too long and too difficult!!!11!!"?
i thought pointing them to "package deal" is a cool idea; pre-building some package, items, talents and/or spells is even better...

what else?
i'm open to advices :D

[mayapuppies]

www.killershrike.com for all of your D20/D&D Conversion and introductory needs

[Shadowsoul]

My response would be to tell players that they don't have to understand the system. Because you do.

Then just ask them what kind of character do they want to play. If they don't have a particular concept then ask them what D&D or whatever class they want to play and base the character on that. Then you write the character for them or with them until they like what they see.

I think one of the real lures of Hero is allowing people to tweak their characters however they like and use any kind of ability that they can think of. That's the carrot. Just say, "Imagine if you could play anyone or anything. I can make it happen. Joiiin uuuuusss, Joooiiiiiin uuuuuusssss."

(You might want to skip that last bit).

[mayapuppies]

My response would be to tell players that they don't have to understand the system. Because you do.

Then just ask them what kind of character do they want to play. If they don't have a particular concept then ask them what D&D or whatever class they want to play and base the character on that. Then you write the character for them or with them until they like what they see.

I think one of the real lures of Hero is allowing people to tweak their characters however they like and use any kind of ability that they can think of. That's the carrot. Just say, "Imagine if you could play anyone or anything. I can make it happen. Joiiin uuuuusss, Joooiiiiiin uuuuuusssss."

(You might want to skip that last bit).

That's how I've grabbed my players...but it was the "Joiiin uuuuusss, Joooiiiiiin uuuuuusssss." that really made them convert...:sneaky:

[Dr Divago]

"Imagine if you could play anyone or anything. I can make it happen. Joiiin uuuuusss, Joooiiiiiin uuuuuusssss."

(You might want to skip that last bit).loool :D

[Dr Divago]

www.killershrike.com for all of your D20/D&D Conversion and introductory needsbut but... this site is...
HUUUUUGE

a lot of suggstion, magic systems, and like!!
seems like i found something to read carefully :D

[mayapuppies]

It's become the mandatory stopping place for all new Fantasy Hero GM's.

[LordGhee]

New players

I would ask them what kind of charater they wanted to play (and have a few made Up) and give them starter charaters then run a simple game (the bandits on the road ect) and give them lots of exp to flesh out their charaters ten points or so and anther short adventure ect (start them with 100 pt charaters)

Lord Ghee

[Doc]

We're touching the very essence of D20 system right here.

D20 (and its ancestors) built a yoke to gameplay not only in its own system, but in the very mind of a damn lot of players. That's why I think it's inherently Evil.:thumbdown

Even though the first rule in all D&D was to let rules asside when they got in your way, it seems that it was only a decoil to hide its masterplan, as lots of hardened D&D players never took it into acount.

Free roleplayers of the world, unite! Revolt!:sick:


But to add something useful to the thread, I'd do this in addition to the previous (and excellent:doi:) suggestions: you could make comparisions with any other RPG your players might have played wich weren't based upon character classes, like old D6 Star Wars, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, etc.

If they never played any game without character class concept, well, this post is nul and void, and you de facto receive the epic mission to save their minds (and even maybe their souls) from the clutches of D20 system!

Congratulations and good luck...:cool:

[Thia Halmades]

That's "revolt" not "regurgitate." Easy, doc. Anyway, the easiest way to introduce new players to HERO or Fantasy HERO is to walk them in to the room, and say "Guys, this is Jim. Jim, these are The Guys" and voila! You've introduced your new player.

If you mean, "How do I get people to play HERO?" that's also very easy. You sit 'em down, preferably with HERO Designer (tm) and give 'em some core guidelines as to what you want to run and the characters that'll fit, and go from there.

[Dr Divago]

But to add something useful to the thread, I'd do this in addition to the previous (and excellent:doi:) suggestions: you could make comparisions with any other RPG your players might have played wich weren't based upon character classes, like old D6 Star Wars, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, etc.

If they never played any game without character class concept, well, this post is nul and void, and you de facto receive the epic mission to save their minds (and even maybe their souls) from the clutches of D20 system!well... actually we're playing star wars
the one and only star wars possible, the one with a lot of d6 rolled, crappy spaceship combat rules and coooool jedi system :D
(and without class/levels, ofc :) )

[Dr Divago]

That's "revolt" not "regurgitate." Easy, doc. Anyway, the easiest way to introduce new players to HERO or Fantasy HERO is to walk them in to the room, and say "Guys, this is Jim. Jim, these are The Guys" and voila! You've introduced your new player.I thought something like "guys, this is FREd. FREd, this is the guys"
anyway... loool :D

If you mean, "How do I get people to play HERO?" that's also very easy. You sit 'em down, preferably with HERO Designer (tm) and give 'em some core guidelines as to what you want to run and the characters that'll fit, and go from there.
i got no "hero designer" :(

[runescience]

if you are interested, I have a spread sheet.

Email me for the spreadsheet.

All you have to do is put in the final stats, and levels in each skill you want.

It will auto gen your stat costs, and your points spent on skills.

After that you can look at the weapons section and get the ocv with that weapon.

Its all filled in for you. It prints a 2 sided sheet.

Email me directly runescience@yahoo.com

[Thia Halmades]

HERO Designer is $25.00, and it makes everything pretty much invisible. It's the single most powerful character creation hardware on the market, for any system, and it's absolutely essential for any large-scale HERO project. For the twenty five USD you get two years of free updates, and of course, even after that expires, the software still works. The license just allows you to get free updates and download things from the site (www.herodesigner.com). Go now. Buy it NOW. Do NOT hesitate.

[Doc]

well... actually we're playing star wars
the one and only star wars possible, the one with a lot of d6 rolled, crappy spaceship combat rules and coooool jedi system :D
(and without class/levels, ofc :) )


Feel the same about Star Wars RPG.

You just have to tell your new players the Hero system looks much like a Star Wars rgp creation process than a D&D one.

[Dr Divago]

Go now. Buy it NOW. Do NOT hesitate.Oh it's cool :D
i hesitate 'cause actually i don't play hero... well... i never played hero before (save for one or two "one shot" game session)
and dunno if i'll play it in the future... i mean... before 6th edition (or 7th or 8th...) come out... :\

i can buy it from Italy? it's shipped to me? :D

[TheQuestionMan]

Star Wars Hero Resources
http://herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30644

Cheers

QM

[Sweeper]

Well, A copy of Sidekick or two wouldn't hurt. I found that it is less likely make potential players run from the table screaming upon seeing 5ER, (OK, that was an exaggeration, they had some choice words that were spoken rather loudly to me before they left).

[Bygoneyrs]

The best advice that I might give you is to sit down with each player and work through the character concept with each and everyone of them. I know that might be a bit extreme, BUT the experience and fun of hacking out the character with the player can be fun in it's self. Provide some snacks for you and them and have all the needed books at your finger-tips. Then work out the personality and back story for the players PC and
then start creating their character with them. Try to make it a fun experience, and tell the player some of the other genres that are available for the Hero's System. For me these typr of sessions usually takle like 2-3 hours and I try to do them on off gaming times. Do it prior to the actual game, and even tell the player to consider what they might want to roleplay and why.

When I start a new campaign, I make creating the backstory for a players PC very important because I can build in possible plots and NPCs to take the player in all manner of possible directions at different times if I so choose or the player wants to pursue such matters. Here is a example of a backstory that I have worked with one of my players now for my newly reworked campaign.

Player PC Name: Sir Dolrick Argyleon

Dolrick is the 3th son to Lord Knight Kerum Argyleon of the Jhorgule Council of Knights.
His 1st brother Sir Kyle has just been Knighted, and is do to be married to
Dame Precilla Bourgue (father Knight Phillip Bourgue - their family exports fine wines).
Dolrick's 2nd brother Tyean Argyleon is a Squire to Lord Knight Kalib Kerrigor, and is started to build a rep for being a extremely skilled swordman. Tyean is seeing the daughter (Terria) of a rich Import/Export merchant familly of Rellenar of Upper Jhorgule city, and it is looking that marriage might just be in the cards for these tow. Now Dolrick's older sister Dame Zerra is a bit of a wild one, and is quite skilled with a rapier. She seeks at times unlady like entertainment and is quite free spirted and utterly un controlable. Father wonders if his wife (Dolrick's Mother, as well as the mother off all
his brothers and sister) had lived, if she might of turned out more Lady like. The only other family member that lives in the familys Manor House is father's younger brother Father Tully Argyleon (Priest Of Und) . Now Sir Dolrick has just completed his training to become a Knight of Jhorgule under his father, and it is time for him to venture out in the world and prove himself and gain the required three tasks need to become a Knight of the Realm.

That is the basic backstory about the family, and I usually add other details such as friends, servants, little tales of happenings, rumors, mysteries and the like. Everything has the possibility to be a plot lead in many ways. The armed with that, then build the player's character and get them outfitted. Then sit back and talk about their history and backstory getting them thinking of possible adventures and etc.

Just my 2 cents...

Penn

[Dr Divago]

Well, A copy of Sidekick or two wouldn't hurt. I found that it is less likely make potential players run from the table screaming upon seeing 5ER, (OK, that was an exaggeration, they had some choice words that were spoken rather loudly to me before they left).
I got sidekick. and agree: a 128 pages full rulebook is awful. a 600 pages full rulebook is "AAAAAgggghhhhh... my hearth... i think i'll die..."

btw, now they are pounding about playing vampire... i mean, hunters who fight vampire. but NOT btvs (i'll be happy 'cause i'm a whedon maniacs) more like... something realistic, not superheroic, but very action...
in short: they don't know... -.-

[Maur]

The PHB for D&D is larger than 128 pages...

[runescience]

i didnt like sidekick but i bought 2 copies. my players borrowed them and didnt return them, so some people like it and some done. its that sort of thing

[Catseye]

For Champions, I always did character creation myself as a the GM. I asked them to describe the character they wanted to play and I built it.

This has some real advantages. It means all charcters are "min/maxxed" to the same degree. And it means you don't have rules lawyers slipping fast ones by you.

For my house fantasy setting, I'm actually working on something like KS's system but extended to create real psudo classes and levels. Yes, sacrilege I know, but I actually *like* classes and levels. I think they help promote a degree of uniqueness and cooperation amongst the characters.

That may seem contradictory, but my long experience with Hero has led me to see the "Swiss Army Knife" effect where players start copying each others best areas of efficacy as they advance. I want to enforce some archetype based character separation and, frankly, I like the character growth arc that a class system creates.

So, I'm still using the power of the system, but *I* use it as a GM to create the "class and level packages." If you want to play an archetype I haven't built yet, fine, describe it to me and Ill build packages for it.

[Maur]

I guess that issue of players copying each other and the merging/melding of all the characters into a single melting pot is an oddly rare group. I've played D&D/Rifts/Shadowrun/HERO/D6 (Star Wars and current releases from WEG) and have never had a group of players do that even after playing the characters for over a year in a campaign.

[Catseye]

*shrug* Its something I've seen repeatedly.

May just depend on how seriously "game oriented" your players are.

In general, I think a rule of thumb I posted to MudDEV a logn time ago applies here to general game design.

Never make it possible for one character to acquire everything they need to be completely successful on their own. If you do, then achieving that state will become their focus rather then working together.

[Thia Halmades]

Oh it's cool :D
i hesitate 'cause actually i don't play hero... well... i never played hero before (save for one or two "one shot" game session)
and dunno if i'll play it in the future... i mean... before 6th edition (or 7th or 8th...) come out... :\

i can buy it from Italy? it's shipped to me? :D

You can buy it from Italy. You download it; no shipping required (unless there's something about the internet in Italy I don't know). But you purchase it from the online store, and it tells the Herodesigner site you bought it, and voila! You DL the software and the most recent patch and go bananas.

If you want to do Vampires, that's... wow, there are so many ways to do it it's a little nuts. What kinds of vampires? Mobs of mindless blood suckers that get cut down like wheat before the scythe? Ancient masterminds? What are you looking for? Because first you do the obvious -- design the vampires -- and then determine how powerful you want the players to be (we'll merrily tell you all about the differences between heroic & super heroic until you're ready to faint) and then you can roll from there.

But yeah. Vampires? We can do that.

[Dr Divago]

You can buy it from Italy. You download it; no shipping required (unless there's something about the internet in Italy I don't know). But you purchase it from the online store, and it tells the Herodesigner site you bought it, and voila! You DL the software and the most recent patch and go bananas.Cool
so you buy the "activation code" like i did with some mmorpg, antivirus, and like. nice
and what happens if, suddenly, hard disk crash and you lost all your activation codes (are saved into e-mail)? XD
this happened to me (luckily, i got paper copy :D ) and you know, lightning does'nt struck same spot trice but...

btw coooooool things. IF i'll play hero, sure i'll buy it
(last thing: where can i download it? a lot of things changed in the homepage since last visit XD )
If you want to do Vampires, that's... wow, there are so many ways to do it it's a little nuts.
SNIIIIIIP
But yeah. Vampires? We can do that.
yeah... that's wierd...
<rant>
some times ago i proposed vampire; all said "no way"
recently they asked me a fantasy
i said them "i don't whanna do DnD"
then proposed Fantasy Hero
one mate already played it (so say him) and don't liked it BUT accepted to try it again (different master=different game. and in hero this is really true :D )
then i started bothering you with this pointless post :D
then one proposed "why we can't do vampire?"
and all mates seems agreeing
then i started showing them something about vampire (vampire hero)
and they said me "no no we whanna do vampire hunters"

i tried to explain WHY i don't whanna do vampire hunters:
1) superpowered hunters is a superpower game. i'd like more seeing flying man, regenerating cheerleader and time manipulator japanese nerd more than i-can-kil-a-vampire-with-a-fist man
(in short: if i could play superhero, i play SUPERHERO not vampire superhunter)

2) low powered hunters is an investigating "we can hardly survive if we fight one vampire" game, sure not "fight fight fight" game they whanna do (we play tuesday night, and we are all tired, and investigating game easily get ppl sleeping :) )

3) someone whanna do "we are good megacorporation killing vampire for job" and this is, imho, crappiest thing: superpower-like ppl and/or political arrangement. so this will be case 1 or 2

4) Angel or BtVS things. i liked the show. i bought the game. well, technically i bought it 'cause i'm a maniac BtVS fan so just to keep it on my desk. BUT i know is good game for fast action, low rules, not-so-serious gaming sessions.
problem is: they surely whanan do something serious -_-
</rant>

sorry for this rant... at the moment, i'm a bit depressed 'cause now they whanna do a game i don't. and i already did a game don't i don't liked it, and this was a disaster.
BUT i know they almost never play something i like XD

[Dr Divago]

The PHB for D&D is larger than 128 pages...
i know it.
and sure borrowing hundreds of book to search best combination from talents/spells/prestige classes/magic items is A LOT SLOWER than reading sidekick and starting building your personal ideas

BUT

peoples like more seeing something other already did, than using their mind and build it :(

[Dr Divago]

For Champions, I always did character creation myself as a the GM. I asked them to describe the character they wanted to play and I built it.This is the best thing
i always said so "you tell me what u whanna do, and i build the charachter for you in front of your eyes (so you can make important choice )

but all player i had, whenever i say them "what do you whanna do?" they start saying "what can i do?"
i reply, with smile "all that you whant"
and they "let me see the manual, so i get some ideas on what can i do"

:(

[teh bunneh]

i tried to explain WHY i don't whanna do vampire hunters:
1) superpowered hunters is a superpower game. i'd like more seeing flying man, regenerating cheerleader and time manipulator japanese nerd more than i-can-kil-a-vampire-with-a-fist man
(in short: if i could play superhero, i play SUPERHERO not vampire superhunter)

2) low powered hunters is an investigating "we can hardly survive if we fight one vampire" game, sure not "fight fight fight" game they whanna do (we play tuesday night, and we are all tired, and investigating game easily get ppl sleeping :) )

3) someone whanna do "we are good megacorporation killing vampire for job" and this is, imho, crappiest thing: superpower-like ppl and/or political arrangement. so this will be case 1 or 2

4) Angel or BtVS things. i liked the show. i bought the game. well, technically i bought it 'cause i'm a maniac BtVS fan so just to keep it on my desk. BUT i know is good game for fast action, low rules, not-so-serious gaming sessions.
problem is: they surely whanan do something serious -_-

Have you ever seen the movie John Carpenter's Vampire$ (http://imdb.com/title/tt0120877/)? Sounds like it might be just the sort of thing you're looking for. In the movie, vampires are stronger, tougher, and faster than ordinary humans. The vampire hunters (who work for the Vatican) have to be smarter than their enemies if they want to defeat them. It's not a great movie, but it might give you some good ideas for your game.

[Catseye]

Cool
so you buy the "activation code" like i did with some mmorpg, antivirus, and like. nice
and what happens if, suddenly, hard disk crash and you lost all your activation codes (are saved into e-mail)? XD

Gmail e amico tuo ;)

(Pardon if my grammer is off, its been 20 yrs since I lived in Italy and I was only passable then.)

Gmail (google mail) saves all your mail online for you.

Would you like a gmail invite? If so, give me an alternate email to send the invite to.

[Thia Halmades]

Yeah, Gmail is pretty much G-d amongst webmail. And yes, the whole point of the license system is that you can always download the software. Computer blows up? No sweat. Go back to www.herodesigner.com and just DL the software again. No cost, no penalty. The rules are pretty simple; you can use it on your machine, and your work machine, but you can't put it on your friend's machine, that's a no-no. He has to buy his own copy for that.

[Tonio]

Yeah, Gmail is pretty much G-d amongst webmail. And yes, the whole point of the license system is that you can always download the software. Computer blows up? No sweat. Go back to www.herodesigner.com (http://www.herodesigner.com) and just DL the software again. No cost, no penalty. The rules are pretty simple; you can use it on your machine, and your work machine, but you can't put it on your friend's machine, that's a no-no. He has to buy his own copy for that.

I think that technically speaking, you CAN put it on your friend's machine, but only for your exclusive use (that is, your friend can't use it). Yah, more of a nitpick, but useful to know if you went to your friend's house, forgot your laptop... you can download it, install it on his computer, use it, then remove it before heading back home.

Also, you can install it to a removable USB drive (aka pen drive) and run it from there... which allows you to carry HD everywhere, w00t! (Computers where you run it need to have Java installed, but most of them have it already, plus you can carry the Java installer on your USB drive anyway!)

[Thia Halmades]

A nitpick and clarification, but certainly a valid one. Agreed (and I assume Simon would agree) that so long as you take it away again (much like showing up with your book) it'd be no harm/no foul.

[mayapuppies]

Also, you can install it to a removable USB drive (aka pen drive) and run it from there... which allows you to carry HD everywhere, w00t! (Computers where you run it need to have Java installed, but most of them have it already, plus you can carry the Java installer on your USB drive anyway!)
This is what I did. Just make sure it isn't newer than Java 5.0 or so...or has that changed yet?

[Dr Divago]

Gmail e amico tuo ;)

(Pardon if my grammer is off, its been 20 yrs since I lived in Italy and I was only passable then.)Oh
grammar is ok :D
(mine is worse XD english grammar, i mean :D )
Gmail (google mail) saves all your mail online for you.

Would you like a gmail invite? If so, give me an alternate email to send the invite to.well... i got a gmail
two, to be honest, 'cause i use one only for msn

but i got this awful habitude to delete mails after a while... maybe i need to stop? :D

[Dr Divago]

Have you ever seen the movie John Carpenter's Vampire$ (http://imdb.com/title/tt0120877/)? Sounds like it might be just the sort of thing you're looking for. In the movie, vampires are stronger, tougher, and faster than ordinary humans. The vampire hunters (who work for the Vatican) have to be smarter than their enemies if they want to defeat them. It's not a great movie, but it might give you some good ideas for your game.
Thanks
btw, finally they decided for FH
so now i'll need to arrange something coherent for this game; btw i got enough time: we'll start next spring so i got time untile may... when i'll say "omg i got no time! why i haven't started at december?" :p

[tancred]

Dr. Divago, for a good introductory game of Fantasy Hero, you might want to take a look at The Turakian Age. It's Hero's "generic High Fantasy" setting.

It has a magic system already built (and 2 supporting books, the Grimoires) and there is a book of adventures available for it, too (Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds).

There are all the usual fantasy races (elves, dwarves) and some not-so-usual ones (Erqigdlit, Leomachi).

I've just started a campaign in it, and the players are having a lot of fun.

[Catseye]

I've been working on a partial character sheet I call a "Action Sheet", to try to make HERO a bit less intimidating for starting players.

Attached is the open office spread sheet version and an xls version.

I'm working now on an export template for HD.

[Thia Halmades]

Dr. Divago, for a good introductory game of Fantasy Hero, you might want to take a look at The Turakian Age. It's Hero's "generic High Fantasy" setting.

It has a magic system already built (and 2 supporting books, the Grimoires) and there is a book of adventures available for it, too (Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds).

There are all the usual fantasy races (elves, dwarves) and some not-so-usual ones (Erqigdlit, Leomachi).

I've just started a campaign in it, and the players are having a lot of fun.

For Low Fantasy you can try and run with the Celtic game that just totally slipped my mind. :D WOW, it's late and Thia is tired. Additionally, they're doing Atlantis (which is broken-high level stuff).

[Dr Divago]

Dr. Divago, for a good introductory game of Fantasy Hero, you might want to take a look at The Turakian Age. It's Hero's "generic High Fantasy" setting.Oh thanks but...
i got it :D

now i'm working on a little tweaking of the magic system (my fear is will be unbalanced for not-magic caracthers...)

btw, i found turakian age very nice setting. high fantasy. dnd style of game but more mature, intelligent, and of course not so videogame (just read the setting, then read FR setting. and you understand WHY i don't whanna play dnd and why i'm about to start a game into turakian age :D )