C.l.o.w.n.

[Dust Raven]

Yes, the Criminal Legion Of Wacky Non-conformists.

I don't have the book in front of me (in fact, I don't think I even own it anymore), could anyone who does please post a list of the character names of the members of CLOWN? I don't need stats or anything, just the character names. The rest should flow from memory (I hope).

Thanks!

[aylwin13]

I have Classic Organizations at home. I'm leaving work this very second. I check it out when I get home (about 1/2 an hour).

[Hermit]

I don't have the book with me, but since Aylwin is going to post anyway, I want to test my memory :)
Merry Andrew, Tee Hee (the car), April Fool, Tag, Trump Knight, Slapstick (Retired), Dot (?)

[CrosshairCollie]

Dot
Beuford The Bard
April Foolmaker
Marbles
Random
Merry Andrew
Skate Kate
Slapstick (retired)
Snapshot
Popgun (Expelled)
Spotlight
Tag
Toe-Tapper
Trump Knight
Tee-Hee The C.L.O.W.N. car
and an old Adventurer's Club featured a character named Topsy-Turvy.

[Hermit]

Ah, so many I forgot... I am ashamed!

[CrosshairCollie]

Ah, so many I forgot... I am ashamed!

It's a big group. It'd be like trying to name everybody who's ever been an Avenger or a Justice Leaguer.

Oh, and I was at a Con with the guy who created the group once ... there was a character who didn't make the cut named Sweet Tooth (various candy/pastry themed attacks, like Taffy Entangles).

[aylwin13]

Thanks CC. I was just getting ready to start typing. Kind of glad I didn't have to. :D

[Dust Raven]

Thank you everybody!

[CrosshairCollie]

Thanks CC. I was just getting ready to start typing. Kind of glad I didn't have to. :D

No big. :)

[BobGreenwade]

For my next trick I'll be writing up CLOWN for 5th Edition Champions, and having it published in Digital Hero.

For my trick after that I'll be resurrecting myself from the injuries inflicted upon my carcass by Mr. Long. ;)

[JmOz]

You know, I think the lack of CLOWN is one of the reasons I like the 4th edition universe better, it felt more like a comic book world to me, partialy because you had obvious hold overs from the silver age along side bronze and Iron, now you have Bronze and Iron, but no silver other than a certain Ape...

[Vestnik]

Why is CLOWN considered considered so passe and Silver-Agey? Lots of comedy-theme villains worked in the Bronze and Iron Ages -- Arcade, Joker, the Riddler. Hell the CU has Foxbat (a character I loathe), and he's stretching the goofy envelope.

[BobGreenwade]

Why is CLOWN considered considered so passe and Silver-Agey? Lots of comedy-theme villains worked in the Bronze and Iron Ages -- Arcade, Joker, the Riddler. Hell the CU has Foxbat (a character I loathe), and he's stretching the goofy envelope.There's a difference between comedy-themed and outright comedic. Try to imagine, if you will, the Joker (complete with all his recent and current lethality) going up against the Inferior Five.

Foxbat may well stretch the goofy envelope, but CLOWN ripped that envelope into tiny shreds.

I do think it would be nice to see CLOWN return for the Silver Age Champions book, along with the story of their eventual disbanding, though I doubt Steve would ever go along with it.

[Vestnik]

Couldn't they just be reimagined and de-goofified??

[BobGreenwade]

Couldn't they just be reimagined and de-goofified??That could work, as long as they weren't de-goofified too much. The original idea, though nobody ever stated it as such, seemed to be that they'd serve the same function in a game versus the PCs as we saw (to give the most famous examples) in Mr. Mxyzptlk or Ambush Bug versus Superman in the comics. The group would have to still fit that niche to be worth including.

[CrosshairCollie]

That could work, as long as they weren't de-goofified too much. The original idea, though nobody ever stated it as such, seemed to be that they'd serve the same function in a game versus the PCs as we saw (to give the most famous examples) in Mr. Mxyzptlk or Ambush Bug versus Superman in the comics. The group would have to still fit that niche to be worth including.

It's a weird thing with CLOWN ... players seem more accepting of having their characters beaten to a pulp, maimed, or even killed outright over being humiliated publically.

[death tribble]

I am surprised that I have not seen Steve post here proclaiming 'Over your dead bodies will they appear in 5th Edition or later !'

[Mark Rand]

I enjoyed the 3E C.L.O.W.N., but not the 4E one. It seemed to stretch the "We commit humorous larceny and pull practical jokes" idea too much.

I see C.L.O.W.N. as being a group of six to eight people, at least one of which looks like a Medieval jester. Weapons would include various launchers for silly string and laughing gas.

[Hermit]

It's a weird thing with CLOWN ... players seem more accepting of having their characters beaten to a pulp, maimed, or even killed outright over being humiliated publicly.

Well, I always treated CLOWN as their main goal being to mock society and its foibles, not the superheroes who defended it. That seemed to make them more palatable for players.

[Balabanto]

Well, my players hate losing, but they'll lose every dustup to C.L.O.W.N. and not care. I still haven't figured this one out.

[CrosshairCollie]

Well, my players hate losing, but they'll lose every dustup to C.L.O.W.N. and not care. I still haven't figured this one out.

I've always had the opposite problem. I guess it's the imagery or 'rep' effect ...

"You guys fought Dr. Destroyer toe-to-toe? That's AMAZING ... you won by virtue of not getting atomized!"
"Takofanes is a major player ... holding him off as long as you did was an amazing feat!"
" ... you got pwned by a girl with a ventriloquist's dummy and a clown."

I think your players have the correct perspective on the issue, Balabanto. :)

[Sidume]

If you lose to Dr. Destroyer, people tend to die.

But if you lose to C.L.O.W.N. . . . So what? People laugh at the guys running around in capes and long underwear anyway.

And some people just need to be poked fun at.

[caris]

It's a weird thing with CLOWN ... players seem more accepting of having their characters beaten to a pulp, maimed, or even killed outright over being humiliated publically.

There are a couple of threads about CLOWN floating around that I posted (I'm in favor of using CLOWN carefully).

One of the the impressions that I got is a number of players feel that CLOWN has things stacked in their favor. It maybe that some GMs abuse CLOWN, in giving CLOWN script immunity, since after all the worse thing that is going to happen to a PC is that he has cream pie on his face, so it is OK to make it so that the PCs can't win.

[Dust Raven]

I've always liked CLOWN, but have never had a really good use for them in game. In most of the games I would have put them in, they've be criminals, but not villains, and ultimately the heroes would have ended up working with them or vice versa. I suppose this would be cool in some ways, but it's not been the goal of any campaign I've run previously.

I'm currently thinking of utilizing them in a campaign set in the future. Still supers, but a low powered (200-250 total points) and in a world where super powered people are becoming rare. I'd like to use CLOWN, heavily modified, as a form of dark comedy relief... with the jokes being funny, but also being borderline cruel without actually being directly harmful. I'm not sure how I'll pull it off, or if it will even pan out, but it's an idea in my head.

[CrosshairCollie]

There are a couple of threads about CLOWN floating around that I posted (I'm in favor of using CLOWN carefully).

One of the the impressions that I got is a number of players feel that CLOWN has things stacked in their favor. It maybe that some GMs abuse CLOWN, in giving CLOWN script immunity, since after all the worse thing that is going to happen to a PC is that he has cream pie on his face, so it is OK to make it so that the PCs can't win.

I have witnessed a GM suffering from Don't Hurt My Babies Syndrome with CLOWN, yes.

[Hermit]

I have witnessed a GM suffering from Don't Hurt My Babies Syndrome with CLOWN, yes.

Yeah, that's a legit worry. I've nearly fallen into that trap with Foxbat more than once in a Face to Face game as a GM. :o

[mvoncannon]

I missed CLOWN in the previous editions and would like to see them in this edition. I have used several of the comedic villains to great effect and harass the PCs with them. I think they would be a good addition to the universe. If there is minimal need (or want) and DH article would work.

Just my opinion, don't kill me right away.

[Dust Raven]

Yeah, that's a legit worry. I've nearly fallen into that trap with Foxbat more than once in a Face to Face game as a GM. :o

I have as well. Fortunately at the last moment I sucked it up and decided Foxbat would cry and throw a fit the hero broke his arm and I wouldn't. It worked. The heroes turned their attention to the "real" threat and Foxbat slinked away unnoticed.

[OddHat]

I've never used CLOWN as a villain team; it always seemed pointless. I have, however, used them as Berkley's resident Anarchist Hero Collective and Street Performance Troupe.

That worked well.

[Balabanto]

There's a few players though, who just

HATE getting captured.

HATE losing fights, no matter how much it would advance the plot for the villain to win, and then complain when they do lose, claiming I stacked the deck against them.

And when the world does turn against them because they resented that loss so much that they overreact and do something stupid, then they build their character to be invincible except in certain specific situations, which requires me to tiptoe around them, or the other players all get screwed.

The problem with this is that if the player(s) who do that just didn't build their characters that way, fights would be fairer, and I wouldn't have "The purpose of the justice league is to kick the Kryptonite out of the way for Superman effect."

[Lord Liaden]

The impression I've gotten is that the sheer number of CLOWNs multiplies the aggravation for some people. One or two looney villains seem acceptable to most folks for a change of pace. A dozen of them working together can not only be overwhelming in their mass insanity, but strains suspension of disbelief. Steve Long has expressed this concern about them in the past.

[Balabanto]

Well, the thing is that I only use the ones that are appropriate to the scenario. If they all show up, some of them don't actually shoot anything. Once I had Spotlight sit around and just hold up a sign that said "Don't shoot the baby." Apparently people feel the need to shoot at these folks anyway. :)

[caris]

I've never used CLOWN as a villain team; it always seemed pointless. I have, however, used them as Berkley's resident Anarchist Hero Collective and Street Performance Troupe.

That worked well.

Well, there is a difference between villain and adversary/opponent. I've used CLOWN once, and it was in an adversarial role. Even so, they were not "villains" in the classic sense. They were out to do a prank that was fairly harmless, but annoying and disruptive to a more serious event. The hero were at the event. I left it up to the players to decide if their characters would get involved. (The newly inaugriated POTUS chose to instruct the appropriate people not to press charges against CLOWN, after the smoke cleared. It was his inaugrial ball after all.) It worked well for me.

It isn't something I'd do more than once a year in a long running campaign.

[Balabanto]

It really depends. Every so often, I run a scenario so dark that an appearance by CLOWN shortly thereafter is a welcome break.

[Hermit]

It really depends. Every so often, I run a scenario so dark that an appearance by CLOWN shortly thereafter is a welcome break.

Yeah, I'm not great with dark storylines, so when I DO do one, I soon follow with a bit of humor to help wipe the gloom away

[CrosshairCollie]

Yeah, I'm not great with dark storylines, so when I DO do one, I soon follow with a bit of humor to help wipe the gloom away

I'm having a sudden urge to do a game where 'real' villains dress up in CLOWN suits and actually perform real crimes ... the hard part will be finding ways to mimic the powers believably. :)