Language?

[Enforcer84]

Okay, I'm brainstorming my languages for Edean. Now in the games I've been bastardizing for this world most people speak the same language. I will not be using this.


Human Tongues:

Ancient Tongue (First Language; has its own Alphabet)
Lorric (Official Language of Gondollore; uses Ancient Tongue Alphabet)
Draconic (The spoken language of Dragons, Official Language of the Draconic Empire, has unique Alphabet)
Arcane (Official Language of Ascencia; uses Ancient Alphabet)
Tradespeak (official Language of Silversea; uses Ancient Alphabet, most common language)
Myrran (Secret language of the Myrran Clergy; unique Alphabet)


Languages with a similar alphabet will have 1pt familiarity. Languages that have their own alphabet have 0pt familiarity, Myrran has a -2pt Familiarity with any language :); and Tradespeak has a 2pt familiarity with alphabetically similar languages and 1pt with all others (save Myrran) simply because it absorbs every language it touches :)

[Killer Shrike]

A custom Language chart can add a lot of flavor to a campaign if you take the time to tie it into the settings history, especially if you take the time to draw out a chart similar to the standard normal world version in the rules like this: San'Dora Languages (http://www.killershrike.com/SanDora/SanDoraSetting_Languages.aspx). However, there are some down sides to it as well, particularly if you are using HERO Designer.

If you make a template defining your custom Language Chart (which can be an ordeal), you have to remember to use it all the time and get it to play nice with any other custom templates you are using (like custom NCM Templates). The template can also get dropped inadvertently if you accidentally reset the template or if you switch Campaign Rules (a checkbox in the Campaign rules controls whether language similarities are factored).

After struggling with this a bit a few years ago, I finally just started using custom Adders on the Languages themselves to get the costs right. Much less prone to breakage, but you have to remember to do it each time yourself based on what Languages the character knows instead of having HD figure it out for you.

Another con is it also complicates character design, though the trade off is it encourages multilingual characters and the acquisition of languages after play starts.

Anyway, good luck with your undertaking!

[PhaseKitty]

BTW, it's called similarity not familiarity well in the book anyway. :)

Tradespeak isn't going to chart up right. :( Unless you put a less-"tight" group inside a more-"tight" group.

Myrran is -2 familiarity? :shock: :shock: :shock: That means it costs 3 CP more than usual? :shock: :shock: :shock: OUCH! Ain't nobody gonna learn it. :no:

http://i8.tinypic.com/25kivd2.gif

[Lucius]

Instead of a chart like the one in the books, I use a simple grid-chart. Each language appears on the X and the Y axis; you look up a language you know on the X axis, one you want to learn on the Y axis, and the cell where they intersect has a number from 0 to 4 indicating linguistic similarity.

One advantage to this over the way it's done in the Hero books is that you can have assymetrical relationships; for example, if every spoken language derives from one "Ancient Tongue" then if you know a modern language and want to learn the Ancient one it may have "1 pt similarity" - but once you know Ancient Tongue, learning any of the languages derived from it is easier, and they have "2 pt similarity."

Lucius Alexander

It's all Greek to the palindromedary

[Enforcer84]

Thanks for the input my fellow heroes!
As to Myrran, yeah, it's a language devised by a crazy/evil/chaotic goddess of self absorbtion. Basically it is a very difficult language to learn and use so while the country that nominally worships her would never actually adopt it as a language, her church slowly started to adopt it for secrecy and code.

[PhaseKitty]

Thanks for the input my fellow heroes!
As to Myrran, yeah, it's a language devised by a crazy/evil/chaotic goddess of self absorbtion. Basically it is a very difficult language to learn and use so while the country that nominally worships her would never actually adopt it as a language, her church slowly started to adopt it for secrecy and code.

Oy! Strange, but I guess it'll do. ;)

Oh, and Lucius's method is OK if you don't have many languages. Once you get above a dozen or two I think it'd be kinda unwieldy. Also it wouldn't show the language families, which some folx like to see. ;)

http://i8.tinypic.com/25kivd2.gif

[tancred]

I actually built (and posted) an HD template for my Turakian Age game that implements the Language chart from the TA book.
Building it ain't rocket surgery, but it does require some work.

KS carefully pointed out the drawbacks of using a template for that purpose. For my game, the template won't encounter those issues mostly because we aren't using any other custom templates.

[Supreme Serpent]

Yes, I like having different human languages floating about. And if X race has been largely separated from another part for a good while, they would likely have different languages or at least strong dialects as well. Dwarves from opposite sides of the world shouldn't be able to automatically converse flawlessly just because they're both short and have beards. :p

For my current fantasy game I came up with the basic history and geography and the current languages flowed from that.

[Enforcer84]

Most of the other races have multiple languages or at least dialects.
However, I'm currently re-thinking which races I'm going to use. So the lang chart might be taking a back seat for a bit.

[Bygoneyrs]

You know in the issue of languages with my own campaign, I have multiple human
languages and some are based closely off others.

Example:

Ancient Toshika Empire - vast human empire of great age
Toshika Common - modern spoken and written language
Murrian - ancient language still used buy the Witch King and his people
Ranthion - ancient language of a Mage country
Jhorgule - language based on cross of Toshika, Murrian, Dwarven
Dwarven - dwarven language
Fae - all farie folk speak the same language
Algerrec - language of the great desert empire
Trade Common - common trade language(humans/dwarves)
Areon - humans of the far south
Dark Tongue - spoken by Orcs, Goblins, Hob Goblins, Kobalds, Knolls and such
Trollic - Troll language, very ancient but simular to Ancient Toshikian

Just to name a few,

Penn

[mayapuppies]

I'm currently detailing a single kingdom within my game world and there are many many languages in the world. I've already added them in to my custom template for Hero Designer.

Now I'm restraining myself from adding in regional dialects and secret languages for this region...a battle that I am positive will be lost, I just really enjoy having many different languages within my campaign worlds.

[Bygoneyrs]

Well what I am doing is the players are based out of a country called Jhorgule, and it
has it's own language that has it's roots in Ancient Toshika(located due west), Dwarven
(it sits on the location of a ancient Dwarven Kingdome of Nargowin), Mirrior (located
just North/West of the region) and Ranth (North of the region) too. It shares elements
with all of those languages, and it is a Human country that has a 1200 yr history.

Penn

[mayapuppies]

Ok, so it is very slow at work today. Here are the language breakdowns.

There are 11 Language Families that are more or less commonly known within the Kingdom of Tursh. These are listed below.
Aigulf
Amo
Bezzi
Boglar
Cadic
Kvonite
Matharian
Simeret
Tarvic
Tollic
Unedhel

Each of those are different enough that they do not confer any bonus to learn each other. Within each of those Families there are sub-groupings of languages (forgive my lack of knowledge of the correct scientific terms here) that are similar enough to each other to warrant bonuses.

The Amo family is the predominant language group in Tursh and will be the focus of this post. Within this family are the following groupings.

Group 1
Amo
Igardian
Bluetongue
Group 2
Highlander
Swampspeak
Group 3
Gutterspeak
Mariner
Gibberish
Group 4
Rivertongue
Learning a language in one group gives you a small bonus to learning another language in a different group. From this point on it gets very complicated, so I'll describe the rest in narrative rather than rules format.

Amo is the parent 'human' language of which, Igardian is a direct descendant.

Igardian is the language of the founding culture of Tursh. It is predominantly spoken in the eastern duchies and is considered the native tongue of the Kingdom.

Bluetongue is the language of Academia, Nobility and more recently the Church of Asuna. It is considered to be the formal and original version of Igardian.

Highlander is the most common language spoken west of the Plague Wall and is a combination of the various tribal dialects of pre-kingdom times.

Swampspeak is a local dialect of Highlander that is used around the region of the Water Wood.

Rivertongue is used primarily by the rivertraders of the Gaver and has become the native tongue of many of the towns and villages along that rivers length. It combines Highlander, Swampspeak and Aigulf.

Mariner is the dialect spoken by sailors on the Muftharz as well as most of the dockside residents of any of the eastern cities. It combines Igardian and Boglar, primarily with many nautical terms and bits and pieces of other foreign tongues.

Gibberish is spoken primarily along the Queensreach and is the common language of western Dirissland. It combines Igardian with the native Cadic.

Gutterspeak is an urban slang derived from Mariner and Gibberish. It is used by those in the poorer sections of large cities and is used as a form of coded language among urban thieves and smugglers.

Atharan is a part of the Tarvic family, but is a combination of Tarvic and Amo.

One other language comes out of the Ennas Commonwealth and is such a hodge-podge of so many different languages that it has been placed in its own Family. The language is commonly known as Slave Pidgin and has developed over the centuries by the slave population of Ennas and has even become the unofficial primary language in many areas of the Malgit.

And this is how it looks in my MasterTemplate for HD
<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Aigulf">
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Amo">
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Atharan</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Atharan">
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Tarvic</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Bezzi"></LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Bluetongue">
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Boglar">
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Cadic">
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Gibberish">
<FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Cadic</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Gutterspeak">
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Highlander">
<FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Igardian">
<FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Kvonite"></LANGUAGE>
<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Mariner">
<FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</FOURPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Boglar</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Matharian"></LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Rivertongue">
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Aigulf</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Swampspeak</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Simeret"></LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Slave Pidgin"></LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Swampspeak">
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Highlander</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Rivertongue</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Igardian</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>Bluetongue</TWOPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Amo</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gutterspeak</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Mariner</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
<ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>Gibberish</ONEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Tarvic">
<THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>Atharan</THREEPOINTSIMILARITY>
</LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Tollic"></LANGUAGE>

<LANGUAGE DISPLAY="Unedhel"></LANGUAGE>

[mayapuppies]

Now if I can just figure out how to draw this in chart form and make it all pretty like. heh

[Enforcer84]

inspired as always!
Yeah, I'm struggling with the contrary desires to keep it simple, like the video games I'm originally inspired by, plumb the depths of my creativity and make the world as unique as I can given my original intent, and slapping a heaping portion of what I like about D&D on to it.

Right now I've accomplished a headache.
Then an HD template
And one possible export template (that posts here)

But I wrote 12 pages last week. That makes me happy.

[mayapuppies]

Knocking out a dozen pages is always a happy thing. Everytime I finish a section I get all giddy until I look at how much is left. :eek::D

[PhaseKitty]

Ok, so it is very slow at work today. Here are the language breakdowns.

There are 11 Language Families that are more or less commonly known within the Kingdom of Tursh. These are listed below.


Each of those are different enough that they do not confer any bonus to learn each other. Within each of those Families there are sub-groupings of languages (forgive my lack of knowledge of the correct scientific terms here) that are similar enough to each other to warrant bonuses.

The Amo family is the predominant language group in Tursh and will be the focus of this post. Within this family are the following groupings.

Group 1

Group 2

Group 3

Group 4

Learning a language in one group gives you a small bonus to learning another language in a different group. From this point on it gets very complicated, so I'll describe the rest in narrative rather than rules format.

Amo is the parent 'human' language of which, Igardian is a direct descendant.

Igardian is the language of the founding culture of Tursh. It is predominantly spoken in the eastern duchies and is considered the native tongue of the Kingdom.

Bluetongue is the language of Academia, Nobility and more recently the Church of Asuna. It is considered to be the formal and original version of Igardian.

Highlander is the most common language spoken west of the Plague Wall and is a combination of the various tribal dialects of pre-kingdom times.

Swampspeak is a local dialect of Highlander that is used around the region of the Water Wood.

Rivertongue is used primarily by the rivertraders of the Gaver and has become the native tongue of many of the towns and villages along that rivers length. It combines Highlander, Swampspeak and Aigulf.

Mariner is the dialect spoken by sailors on the Muftharz as well as most of the dockside residents of any of the eastern cities. It combines Igardian and Boglar, primarily with many nautical terms and bits and pieces of other foreign tongues.

Gibberish is spoken primarily along the Queensreach and is the common language of western Dirissland. It combines Igardian with the native Cadic.

Gutterspeak is an urban slang derived from Mariner and Gibberish. It is used by those in the poorer sections of large cities and is used as a form of coded language among urban thieves and smugglers.

Atharan is a part of the Tarvic family, but is a combination of Tarvic and Amo.

One other language comes out of the Ennas Commonwealth and is such a hodge-podge of so many different languages that it has been placed in its own Family. The language is commonly known as Slave Pidgin and has developed over the centuries by the slave population of Ennas and has even become the unofficial primary language in many areas of the Malgit.

And this is how it looks in my MasterTemplate for HD

Whoa! :shock:

Here I thought HârnWorld was complicated with its languages! :eek:

http://i8.tinypic.com/25kivd2.gif

[mayapuppies]

Um, thanks...?

LOL

[PhaseKitty]

Um, thanks...?

LOL

:lol: :rofl:
Not quite a compliment. :winkgrin:
:lol: :rofl:

http://i8.tinypic.com/25kivd2.gif

[Vestnik]

Well, what is the origin of language (and different languages) in the world? Did they evolve "naturally" (whatever that means, since we don't know the origin of language in our world), or through some other means? Was there some "Tower of Babel event," or was writing a divine invention, or stuff like that?