Help with Zooamorph

[JmOz]

I am working on a zooamorph (Character who can change into ALOT of animals)

The character might go to a newish player so I am concerned about playability (How easy it is to use)

The main build for his powers is what I am thinking about right now

1) VPP, only for Modern earth animals multiform (-3/4)

2) Multiform 275 point form, 32 forms, Variable F/x

3) Multiform 275 point form, 500 forms

4) Shape shift, MP of related powers

5) Shape Shift, VPP for related powers

Now personaly, I am leaning towards number 2, but want opinions from everyone else. the 275 points is the normal build total for characters in the game BTW, so I realise some animals will be outside of the possibilities...

[McCoy]

Option 2, and get a copy of the Beastiary.

Go through with the player and pick out
Best attack
Best defense
Highest DCV
Fastest runner
Fastest flyer
Fastest swimmer
So the player is ready to quickly switch to these as called for.

[Thia Halmades]

I have to echo McCoy and say "Multiform to required cost, xN forms." In addition, you may want to pick out the "best balance" form; the one that may not be strongest in a given category, but acts as a good, "You won't screw up too badly if you 'default' to this form during combat until the situation calls for a change."

[Querysphinx]

The first MMPC (Massively multiform player character) I ever built was waaay back in second (or was it third?) ed. when VPPs were just called Gadget pools. There were no rules for shift on the fly gadget pools, so we invented some (and it ended up looking almost identical to a 4th ed. VPP)

At any rate. I just had the player write up a whole bunch of of note cards with different animal shape point-distributions on them, so he didn't have to invent the things on the fly and it worked out beautifully.

His favorite attack was was to fly over an enemy as a hummingbird and then turn into someting large and heavy and fall on them. Hummingbird--Glyptodant(giant prehistoric armadillo)--Squish.

[Thia Halmades]

The first MMPC (Massively multiform player character) I ever built was waaay back in second (or was it third?) ed. when VPPs were just called Gadget pools. There were no rules for shift on the fly gadget pools, so we invented some (and it ended up looking almost identical to a 4th ed. VPP)

At any rate. I just had the player write up a whole bunch of of note cards with different animal shape point-distributions on them, so he didn't have to invent the things on the fly and it worked out beautifully.

His favorite attack was was to fly over an enemy as a hummingbird and then turn into someting large and heavy and fall on them. Hummingbird--Glyptodant(giant prehistoric armadillo)--Squish.

How would that even work? What attack mechanic would govern it?

[McCoy]

His favorite attack was was to fly over an enemy as a hummingbird and then turn into someting large and heavy and fall on them. Hummingbird--Glyptodant(giant prehistoric armadillo)--Squish.


How would that even work? What attack mechanic would govern it?
I've done it as a move through, which presumes that increased mass = increased STR (a presumption supported by the Growth and Density Increase powers).

[Thia Halmades]

I've done it as a move through, which presumes that increased mass = increased STR (a presumption supported by the Growth and Density Increase powers).

Okay, so it's v/5... but what's the "speed" he's falling at? What's the quick & dirty calculation? And then we assume that he isn't making an attack, he's just falling, so he'd do STR + v/5 as a Move Through (and take any damage his PD didn't shrug off) correct? Sorry, don't mean to pester but I've yet to actually use the Move Through rules, I haven't needed 'em yet.

[Hugh Neilson]

I am working on a zooamorph (Character who can change into ALOT of animals)

The character might go to a newish player so I am concerned about playability (How easy it is to use)

The main build for his powers is what I am thinking about right now

1) VPP, only for Modern earth animals multiform (-3/4)

3) Multiform 275 point form, 500 forms


I'd go with one of these two, with the following addenda:

- the player gets character sheets for the forms he expects to use, drawn from the bestiary ideally.

- new forms require practice, so he can't add a very different new form in mid-combat and bog the game down. Minor changes ("but leopards swim") can be handwaved in game without new character sheets.

I've typically found animals are under-defended. Perhaps he might have an automatic addition of defenses in all forms if this will cause issues in your campaign.

I would consider allowing larger than campaign base forms which will not be unbalancing, given you will approve all forms prior to use and that animals are not shining examples of tight character design.

[Thia Halmades]

I would consider allowing larger than campaign base forms which will not be unbalancing, given you will approve all forms prior to use and that animals are not shining examples of tight character design.

"Cheetas do TOO have an 8x Non Combat Multiplier on their running!"

Sorry. Randomly spouting. Don't mind me. But if someone could answer my question, that'd be great. :D

[McCoy]

Okay, so it's v/5... but what's the "speed" he's falling at? What's the quick & dirty calculation? And then we assume that he isn't making an attack, he's just falling, so he'd do STR + v/5 as a Move Through (and take any damage his PD didn't shrug off) correct? Sorry, don't mean to pester but I've yet to actually use the Move Through rules, I haven't needed 'em yet.
v = height he's falling from. He goes from there to the ground in one phase. Falling damage by the rules maxes out at 20", so does v under these presumptions.

STR is used as a proxy for mass, as Champions doesn't have a size characterstic.

Yes, falling character and character he fell on both take the full damage, physical defenses apply. Which is why changing to an armored form is a good idea.

Haven't yet had anyone try to catch a falling character, but I'm ready for that. On a sucessful block, neither character takes damage.

[McCoy]

"Cheetas do TOO have an 8x Non Combat Multiplier on their running!"

Sorry. Randomly spouting. Don't mind me. But if someone could answer my question, that'd be great. :D
I don't believe cheetahs have NCM at all.

Let's see. 70 mph = 116.667 kph = 58333 scale inches/hour = 972 scale inches/minute = 194 scale inces/turn. I believe the Neastiary says a cheetah has a SPD 4, I'd say 5. So 39" running, with full OCV on a move through/takedown combination, and no endurance-saving NCM mode. Round to 40, -1/4 for no NCM, 50 points and 7 END/phase.

Does that answer the question?

[JmOz]

I want to thank all who have commented, I am thinking about it still, and I am leaning towards this for the characters power, note this will be the most expensive single power on any character in the game

100 275 point Multiform, Fast change (+5), 250 forms

[Querysphinx]

How would that even work? What attack mechanic would govern it?

We used the Move Through mechanic. Back in those days velocity was counted as 5"/segment^2 which is roughly the same as the real life 9.8 m/s^2

So he usually fell from a height of between 5-10" inches. He was so big that it was counted as an AOE 1 hx attack. It did something like 12 D6 which was near high end for the campaign at the time. It was a 200 pt campaign (100 base + 100 disads.)

Another favorite move through change was jackrabbit to rhino...

[Bloodstone]

Multiform, with each form having Shapeshift and an appropriate Linked MP.

Then you build the body types you want (cats, birds of prey, snakes), which have your basic stats, common abilities and common disadvantages.

Shapshift then allows you to get the exact look you want (tiger, lion, cheetah), while the linked MP gets you the other form appropriate abilities (Strength of the Tiger: +10 STR, Speed of the Cheetah: +X Running).

[Tech]

A multiform with multiple animal shapes works fine. One of our players did that. You don't have to stick with the Bestiary stats since they're not strong enough to survive in a superhero world (generally). Feel free to boost the form's stats.

[moquif]

I like Bloodstone's idea of a multiform of different "templates" of animals and each template having Shapeshift and a MP to cover the animals in that "template". It sounds the most versitle at the best point cost and fewest character sheets. The problem with 32 or 500 multiforms is that you need your own binder just to carry them all, reprinting every one to reflect character XP, and finding the right one for the job. With the animal template idea you just say, "I need the Fast Aquatic form, set up the MPs this way and say it's a marlin or trout, wait is this fresh or salt water? Nevermind, it's not important." instead of checking the Ms for marlin. And if you can't think of the name, you go by description, "Large Dinosaur with armor and a spiked ball tail. I forget what it's called."

Better yet it's easier to add new animals. (Say the character visits an alien planet and sees their version of a gorilla.) If they're in one of the templates, you already have it. Otherwise it's cheaper to buy a new one.

[JmOz]

I like Bloodstone's idea of a multiform of different "templates" of animals and each template having Shapeshift and a MP to cover the animals in that "template". It sounds the most versitle at the best point cost and fewest character sheets. The problem with 32 or 500 multiforms is that you need your own binder just to carry them all, reprinting every one to reflect character XP, and finding the right one for the job. With the animal template idea you just say, "I need the Fast Aquatic form, set up the MPs this way and say it's a marlin or trout, wait is this fresh or salt water? Nevermind, it's not important." instead of checking the Ms for marlin. And if you can't think of the name, you go by description, "Large Dinosaur with armor and a spiked ball tail. I forget what it's called."

Better yet it's easier to add new animals. (Say the character visits an alien planet and sees their version of a gorilla.) If they're in one of the templates, you already have it. Otherwise it's cheaper to buy a new one.

Which is alot of the idea behind the with Variable F/X, the way bloodstone is talking about is just placing the enabler on the new form instead of as a modifier, but I do think you are right that it is a good idea (you would still need about 32 forms BTW to handle a good mix of templates to build on)

[JmOz]

Decided on the following build for the primary power

Multiform (477 Character Points in the most expensive form) (Adjustment to Base Points for lack of Disads, Instant Change, x256 Number Of Forms) (175 Active Points); Reversion (-1/2), OIF, Human form only (-1/4)

The points are based on (and may change as I get into character gen on him) a whale Plus a +175 point package of abilities.

[OddHat]

Are you proposing Variable SFX to expand the 32 forms into effectively unlimited forms? Or as a price for being able to define forms on the fly until the 32 are used up? If so, I'd advise dropping it.

To be rules legal, I'd suggest the VPP. For ease of use, I'd go with Multiform, 32 forms (or more), give the player sheets for the 5 most common forms (Bear, Hawk, Wolf, Fly, and Dolphin work well), and just let him define the rest in play. Maybe require him to roll his Power Skill to define a new form, if you feel he has to pay something for the privilege and you don't want to go the VPP route.

Also note that a 275 point animal isn't going to be that impressive in a modern setting if you're going from Bestiary write ups and not allowing considerable tweaking. The character may (depending on how you've set things up) end up dead the first time he tries to take an unmodified Black Bear or Wolf up against foes with guns.

[JmOz]

Are you proposing Variable SFX to expand the 32 forms into effectively unlimited forms? Or as a price for being able to define forms on the fly until the 32 are used up? If so, I'd advise dropping it.

To be rules legal, I'd suggest the VPP. For ease of use, I'd go with Multiform, 32 forms (or more), give the player sheets for the 5 most common forms (Bear, Hawk, Wolf, Fly, and Dolphin work well), and just let him define the rest in play. Maybe require him to roll his Power Skill to define a new form, if you feel he has to pay something for the privilege and you don't want to go the VPP route.

Also note that a 275 point animal isn't going to be that impressive in a modern setting if you're going from Bestiary write ups and not allowing considerable tweaking. The character may (depending on how you've set things up) end up dead the first time he tries to take an unmodified Black Bear or Wolf up against foes with guns.


The variable F/X idea was this:

Take, as an example a dog form, the variable F/X was not going to allow for the character sheet of the dog form to be different, but the same sheet could have been used for most Canine forms.

[OddHat]

The variable F/X idea was this:

Take, as an example a dog form, the variable F/X was not going to allow for the character sheet of the dog form to be different, but the same sheet could have been used for most Canine forms.

I'd be OK with that idea if every dog-form had identical mechanics. However, if one dog was a Great Dane, one was a Blood Hound, and a third was a Chihuahua, then I wouldn't allow it; too much mechanical difference between them.

[tribe]

Coincidentally I've just written a zooamorph character. She's called Anima Mundi and you can see her here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1518175#post1518175).

I went with the Shapeshift and the VPP. At first I was worried about the different sizes of creature and how to reflect that in Shapeshift but I figured she could use some of her points from the VPP for either Shrinking or Growth.

Here's her picture:

http://www.uber-world.com/animamundi.jpg

[JmOz]

I'd be OK with that idea if every dog-form had identical mechanics. However, if one dog was a Great Dane, one was a Blood Hound, and a third was a Chihuahua, then I wouldn't allow it; too much mechanical difference between them.

While I did not go this way, the idea was that the forms would also have some flexibily on the character sheets

So, for instance the snake form would have a MP of poisons/Constrictor powers, with a -0 limitation appropriate powers of form only. So a cobra would have a poison, a constrictor would have +15 Str (or what ever)