Why should I care?

[VR Dragon]

One thing that has kinda upset me as a GM during the few times I have GM'ed was trying to get my players to into the game.

I try running a super hero game and what do I get?

Ex:

Okay as you and your friend walk down the street after the late night movie a sudden explosion rocks you and you see flames and smoke raising into the sky afew blocks down the road. Moments later you hear people screaming as well. what do you do?

Player 1: I don't know. I mean If I am not gaining anything from doing something about it I am start walking the other way. (a true statment)

Player 2: Well I start running towards the fire and take flight into the air. (Good Boy)

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go. (oh my god hand me a gun please)

Why do I seem to always get players who would rather play disinterested vigilantes or the loner types instead of someone with a true hero spirit?

[csyphrett]

If that's the players at work, there's a D&D mentality going on. They don't want to play a super hero game. Out of the list of options, you can try to get a new group, try a PCs as villain game on, or tell them that it is a hero game and then go after them. They're the heroes, they're targets. Maybe that will spark them up.
CES

[Victim]

If that's the players at work, there's a D&D mentality going on. They don't want to play a super hero game. Out of the list of options, you can try to get a new group, try a PCs as villain game on, or tell them that it is a hero game and then go after them. They're the heroes, they're targets. Maybe that will spark them up.
CES

Not really, since even DnD characters need to take plot hooks to have adventures.

Even without a true hero spirit, there's still plenty to reason to engage in superheroics. Fame, for one thing.

Ultimately, the players have to agree to buy into the hooks the GM is offering, or the GM needs to change the hooks. For traditional superheroics, the characters have to be self motivated to some extent. Characters that aren't into that sort of thing aren't really acceptable. You can go after them instead (sort of like the situation with the Xmen) but that's quite different in tone.

Another thing is that the sort of disinterested loner is often a cool character in media. But A) that character doesn't work so well if most people are brooding loners instead of only having 1, and B) those characters generally end up being not nearly so disinterested as outward appearances indicate.

[Trebuchet]

Fifteen years ago when I was starting my supers campaign I specifically banned (in writing) sociopathic loners and angsty teens as characters. Some people just can't grasp subtler hints.

[Supreme Serpent]

There are rewards beyond gold pieces.

Player 1: I don't know. I mean If I am not gaining anything from doing something about it I am start walking the other way.

GM: OK. You walk the other way. In the distance you can still see the glow of the fire. Great guy, I can tell why your friend likes you so much.

Player 2: Well I start running towards the fire and take flight into the air.

GM: Great. You transform into Heroman and soon spot that the new Double Aces hotel/casino is in flames. People are streaming out below, some are dangling from windows. In the distance you start to hear sirens, but there's no way they're going to get there in time.

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go.

GM: But only reformed so far, eh? OK, you sit around and listen to the screams of desperate souls. Player 1 and Player 3, now could be a good time to go get a drink or something if you want. Player 2's going to be involved with the story, so I'm going to focus on him, the rescues and the combat for awhile. Shouldn't take too terribly long though, since only one player involved.

Later....

GM: Heroman saves the day! The crowd starts a 'He-ro-MAN He-ro-MAN' chant as he's getting interviewed by the lovely reporter from News 3. Heroman gets 3XP.

Player 2: Woot! Awesome. Great fight - battling it out in the burning hotel was fantastic. Hey, after the cameras stop I'll see if the reporter would like a date...

Player 1 and Player 3: XP? What about us?

GM: Sorry, no XP for getting pizza or sitting around on porch steps humming.

************************************************** *******.

The GM's time and attention and experience are very precious things. Make it clear that they are both given in much greater amounts to those who act heroically and in genre. The players should understand that they're not playing Sims HERO, they're playing CHAMPIONS.

[Certified]

Although this may be passed off as roleplaying, you may want to talk to your players about their reactions. Ask them why style of game they would like to play in, and tell them, what you had envisioned for this campaign is ______. If these two don't meet, there may be a lot more walking away instead of running to the rescue. With reactions like that I would wonder if they are interested in playing a traditional supers game, saving the day as such. It may turn out that players 1 and 3 are looking for more of a peoples with powers game not a superhero game.

On the other side to that, does the story have some link to the characters or is it just a random event? Even though the character's might not know exactly where the explosion came from, maybe describing the general location and connections the player's may have to it would generate a stronger reaction.

A side note: I would really like to hear the explanation for a reformed demon being apathetic over good.

[Thanelord]

I like Supreme Serpent's way of dealing with the situation. I think if after one or two games like this the other two players still aren't interested, then it's time to find new players.

Thanelord

[Thia Halmades]

Fifteen years ago when I was starting my supers campaign I specifically banned (in writing) sociopathic loners and angsty teens as characters. Some people just can't grasp subtler hints.

Pardon me whilst I wield my new found acronym: QFT. When I wrote the Halliruch Campaign, there were three rules by which all players must abide:

* You must be some variant of "Good." That means when there's trouble, you'll answer the call.
* You must be a Team Player (see: angsty teen/loner syndrome)
* You must want to be a member of the OSC (their unit)

Failure to adhere to these ground rules would make the game utterly unplayable. Utterly. Unplayable. I think it's a matter of drilling it into people; "This is what we're doing, this is how it needs to work. You can have angst, but not to the point where it interferes with being in this campaign."

[Certified]

Although Supreme Serpent's method keeps the game going, I'm not sure it's the best method to keep the players coming back. Sure it moves the story along but if it's not a story the other players want to participate in then what motivation do they have to return?

The argument can be made that if they don't want to play they shouldn't show up. However, and maybe this isn't true for everyone but for me gaming is a collective experience in storytelling. Crafting a tale everyone enjoys together. To ignore half the people at the table's reaction seems a bit cold.

[Diamond Spear]

One thing that has kinda upset me as a GM during the few times I have GM'ed was trying to get my players to into the game.

I try running a super hero game and what do I get?

Ex:

Okay as you and your friend walk down the street after the late night movie a sudden explosion rocks you and you see flames and smoke raising into the sky afew blocks down the road. Moments later you hear people screaming as well. what do you do?

Player 1: I don't know. I mean If I am not gaining anything from doing something about it I am start walking the other way. (a true statment)

Player 2: Well I start running towards the fire and take flight into the air. (Good Boy)

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go. (oh my god hand me a gun please)

Why do I seem to always get players who would rather play disinterested vigilantes or the loner types instead of someone with a true hero spirit?

This seems like a clear cut case of two out of your three players not wanting to play a superhero game. I had problems years ago with suggesting a game, getting people who said “Ok, whatever” and then having crappy games. Once I figured out that I needed to, if necessary, beat an honest answer out of them in regards to what kind of game they wanted to play things got better.

[Supreme Serpent]

Although Supreme Serpent's method keeps the game going, I'm not sure it's the best method to keep the players coming back. Sure it moves the story along but if it's not a story the other players want to participate in then what motivation do they have to return?

The argument can be made that if they don't want to play they shouldn't show up. However, and maybe this isn't true for everyone but for me gaming is a collective experience in storytelling. Crafting a tale everyone enjoys together. To ignore half the people at the table's reaction seems a bit cold.

Yes.

But.

One, they should have been aware of the type of campaign they were getting into. Two, I would hope they have specific character elements that would lead them to get involved - background, disads, etc. They've already agreed on what type of game they're going to be playing - what that collective experience is going to be like. For them to deliberately go against that, they're the ones breaking the 'social contract' and wasting the other people's time.

Now, if the GM did not make it clear what type of game it was going to be/the group did not have a discussion about that up front, and the GM approved characters that clearly don't have heroic motivations/inclinations, yes the GM shoulders some of the responsibility for the situation. If you approve "Rankor the Irritable" who has disads like "Berzerk when hears sneezing" "Hates authority" and "Greedy", don't expect him to be played as a paragon of virtue. If you let Lobo into your Justice League game, he's still Lobo.

[Hugh Neilson]

One thing that has kinda upset me as a GM during the few times I have GM'ed was trying to get my players to into the game.

I try running a super hero game and what do I get?

Ex:

Okay as you and your friend walk down the street after the late night movie a sudden explosion rocks you and you see flames and smoke raising into the sky afew blocks down the road. Moments later you hear people screaming as well. what do you do?

Player 1: I don't know. I mean If I am not gaining anything from doing something about it I am start walking the other way. (a true statment)

Player 2: Well I start running towards the fire and take flight into the air. (Good Boy)

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go. (oh my god hand me a gun please)

Why do I seem to always get players who would rather play disinterested vigilantes or the loner types instead of someone with a true hero spirit?


I've seen this in other genres as well - the "disinterested character". My answer is that the onus is on the player to make a character interested in adventuring. If your character wants to run his tea shop, fne, but I am not going to kill myself sjhoehorning your character into adentures he doesn't want to partake in - so you will spend a lot of time sitting in your tea shop while the other characters actually play the game.

We had a player who did this regularly. When his latest character rejected our offer to join our group, we hired a town crier to advertise that we sought an adventurer to join our party. Your character doesn't have "PC" tattooed on his forehead - we'll look for someone interested and useful.

[Thia Halmades]

I've seen this in other genres as well - the "disinterested character". My answer is that the onus is on the player to make a character interested in adventuring. If your character wants to run his tea shop, fne, but I am not going to kill myself sjhoehorning your character into adentures he doesn't want to partake in - so you will spend a lot of time sitting in your tea shop while the other characters actually play the game.

We had a player who did this regularly. When his latest character rejected our offer to join our group, we hired a town crier to advertise that we sought an adventurer to join our party. Your character doesn't have "PC" tattooed on his forehead - we'll look for someone interested and useful.

By contrast my friend Mike insisted that "we could open a cheese shop in Bora-Bora if we wanted too" and he'd work it into the game. He was lying, Hugh has the right of it. If your PC isn't going to play nice with the other PCs, I will let you roleplay by yourself, in a corner, without plot, as long as you like.

"Okay! I'm in the Tea Shop, what's going on in here?!"
"Eh... *scribbles*... it's a tea shop. People wander in and out. Most of them buy tea, scones, or the odd item off the shelf."
"Are there are any cute girls?"
"Yes, there's a disproportionate number of hippie-esque chicks who move in small groups."
"I hit on them!"
"They ignore you. Okay, you guys, with the plot who are doing stuff, as I was saying before, the ceiling has begun to collapse, and the three goblin squads are now rushing at your position full tilt, both to get out of the tunnel and, seemingly, to do their best to kick your ass. What do you do?"
"HEY! I said I hit on them!"
"And they keep ignoring you. I'll get back to you in a minute."

[GoldenAge]

Sounds like a bit of a miscommunication by all parties.

You obviously didn't convey the totality of your expectations for this game... or the players just didn't get it.
Conversely, the players may not have done the best job communicating their character's motivating factors... or you just weren't listening.

Either way, a simple sit-down will clear things up. If not, there is room within the Hero System to conceive of a game that all parties will enjoy. :)

[CrosshairCollie]

Here's another thing you need ... the characters need to have clear motivations for crimefighting. One of the first things I always ask a player when making a superhero character is 'why is he willing to put on a costume and risk getting hurt or killed for no pay to help a bunch of people he doesn't even know?'.

Obviously, the first PC doesn't have this.
The second seems to.
The third SHOULD. I mean, as a reformed demon, he should see the value of altruism (otherwise he'd hardly be reformed).

You should also look over the characters' Psych Lims. Does #1 have a Psych Lim for (or against) this action? Then you should enforce it. Heck, you can even carrot-and-stick-it. "#2, you get 3 XP for participating in the adventure and doing Y and Z. #1, #3, you get 1 because, well, you showed up."

I also agree with Hugh that it is incumbent upon the player to make a character who is both motivated to adventure and fits into the genre in question, while also important for the GM to enforce that. F'rexample, I would simply outright deny a character with 'Casual Killer', no ifs ands or buts, because that's not an appropriate choice for any genre I'd run. :)

[teh bunneh]

I had a player like this in one of my games. It sucks. And the player wouldn't get a clue if you hit her with a clue-by-four. We ended up doing what Supreme Serpent suggested, and she was all like, "It's not fair that everyone else is out having adventures while I'm here at my bar! Just because I ignored all those plot hooks and refused when the other PCs asked if I wanted to come! Waaaah!" :rolleyes:

My sympathies, man.

[BoloOfEarth]

"HEY! I said I hit on them!"
"And they keep ignoring you. I'll get back to you in a minute."

"I'm just roleplaying them ignoring you." :D

[Thia Halmades]

"I'm just roleplaying them ignoring you." :D

Wort wort wort! I almost put that in there, in fact. ;)

[Blue]

Yeh... I'd beat these people about the head.

"Would Peter Parker ignore a fire? Would a violent loner like Wolverine ignore the fire? Would an anti-hero like Punisher ignore the fire? In all cases, NO! Now you either start acting like superheroes or you go play D&D. This the adventure people! There's no experience points for having your hero doe his laundry and surf the tube."

[SSgt Baloo]

(Substance already available elsewhere in this thread. Go have a look if you need a refresher. I'll wait.)

Heeheehee! I gotta rep you just as soon as I can I already gave out too much in the last 24 hours.

[Supreme Serpent]

I'll also note that I've been on the other extreme - the 'plot hook' that makes NO sense for the character involved.

In this instance, my 15yr old female character in her secret ID was approached by two middle-aged male strangers and asked to put on a blindfold and be taken by said men to an undisclosed location without notifying anyone else. :straight:

Ummm...sorry. I knew it was the lead in for the adventure, my player knew that...but I just couldn't stretch dramatic license enough for me to go through with it. It would have made about as much sense as Captain America accepting a bribe to betray his country. So I sat that adventure out and watched the other characters run through the (ultimately frustrating) adventure. Afterwards the GM apologized and the whole thing was effectively retconned out.

[Tonio]

I wouldn't automatically say the players need to adjust. The game's supposed to be fun for all involved (or as many as possible). If half the people involved don't enjoy saving people in a fire, then they shouldn't be playing a game based around such activities. As an extreme example, if I ran a Fantasy game for 3 players who hated Fantasy and only wanted to play Supers, I'm doing something wrong, not them.

Now while this might be a case of players ignoring plot hooks and generally being uncooperative, it might also be a case of different expectations. Players 1 and 3 might've wanted a grittier, anti-hero style campaign. And that's fine. If that's the case, then they either need to adjust their expectations to fit into the game the GM's running, or the GM needs to change the tone of the game (and Player 2 needs to adjust his expectations). Or, better yet, some sort of middle ground. The GM might offer incentives for Players 1 and 3's characters to join the fray (maybe the demon sees something that looks like a fellow demon, maybe hint to the loner that the insurance company might offer him a reward for minimzing the damage? I dunno... doesn't have to be a reward, just something that makes it interesting). The players agree to play in a setting somewhat different to what they originally wanted to.

In short, the solution is communication. Yes, it's a horrible cliché, but it's still true. Maybe the players really DO want a heroic style campaign, they're just not making the right decisions? Maybe the GM thought the players wanted such a campaign, but they really want a gritty dark campaign? Make sure everybody's on the same page.

[moquif]

A side note: I would really like to hear the explanation for a reformed demon being apathetic over good.

I can't speak for the player, but I to use a simile a reformed criminal doesn't always become a cop. A reformed demon just stops doing bad things and doesn't necessarily mean he starts doing good things.

In this case I'd get the GM to arrange for an angel to visit the reformed demon with a message like "If you really want to convince us you've reformed, you would help those people for no gain apart from our good favor."

[boomer]

I actually like games where the campaign parameters aren't announced. We had a GM tell us to make skilled normals who had Security/LE/Military backgrounds. That was it. Gave us points, etc. I ended up making John Clark from the Tom Clancy books (if you don't know the character; Ex-CIA type). We ended up getting scrolls handed to us by an Elderly Asian Gentlemen that when read gave us Powers. It was a quite good game. Now back on topic: It seems that you have 1 "I'd rather play WoW or Halo" player, 1 gung ho gotta get in the game player (love those kind) and 1 "what's my motivation again?" wanna be thespian.......

Have these guys/gals role played before??? It's Champions.....all Champions games usually start with "your walking down (insert place here) you see (action, noun, etc) what do you do?"

I also like the suggestions of just going after their characters. This would be the time to hit those two "meh" types with an ambush by Viper or something......

[moquif]

and 1 "what's my motivation again?" wanna be thespian.......

I have to disagree slightly. My characters have a little philosophical bent. It has more to do with WHY a character is a hero not IS a character a hero. I like exploring the different reasons why a sane person would risk a horrible painful death or worse every day of their life.

In the "you hear an explosion" plot hook, my first character is trying to establish a new style/school of magic. Doing heroic acts gives credibility to his vision. (Magic is very much stuck in tradition and doesn't take to new ideas very easily.) Another one of my characters would help as soon as he gets his armor on. Originally he was a thrill seeker (and still is) but learned the importance of helping innocents. My third character would help because his goody-two-shoes ancestor spirit wouldn't let it go if he didn't. He just wants this ghost to SHUT UP! Three heroes, same action, different reasons. The GM needs to find out what motivates each character and work with that. But motivating the player is a different story.

[Diamond Spear]

I have to disagree slightly. My characters have a little philosophical bent. It has more to do with WHY a character is a hero not IS a character a hero. I like exploring the different reasons why a sane person would risk a horrible painful death or worse every day of their life.


In the real world we call these people police officers, fireman and soldiers/sailors/marines. I’m sure some of our players who are also members of these professions could be persuaded to add their thoughts here.

[TygerLily]

There are rewards beyond gold pieces.

Player 1: I don't know. I mean If I am not gaining anything from doing something about it I am start walking the other way.

GM: OK. You walk the other way. In the distance you can still see the glow of the fire. Great guy, I can tell why your friend likes you so much.

Player 2: Well I start running towards the fire and take flight into the air.

GM: Great. You transform into Heroman and soon spot that the new Double Aces hotel/casino is in flames. People are streaming out below, some are dangling from windows. In the distance you start to hear sirens, but there's no way they're going to get there in time.

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go.

GM: But only reformed so far, eh? OK, you sit around and listen to the screams of desperate souls. Player 1 and Player 3, now could be a good time to go get a drink or something if you want. Player 2's going to be involved with the story, so I'm going to focus on him, the rescues and the combat for awhile. Shouldn't take too terribly long though, since only one player involved.

Later....

GM: Heroman saves the day! The crowd starts a 'He-ro-MAN He-ro-MAN' chant as he's getting interviewed by the lovely reporter from News 3. Heroman gets 3XP.

Player 2: Woot! Awesome. Great fight - battling it out in the burning hotel was fantastic. Hey, after the cameras stop I'll see if the reporter would like a date...

Player 1 and Player 3: XP? What about us?

GM: Sorry, no XP for getting pizza or sitting around on porch steps humming.

************************************************** *******.

The GM's time and attention and experience are very precious things. Make it clear that they are both given in much greater amounts to those who act heroically and in genre. The players should understand that they're not playing Sims HERO, they're playing CHAMPIONS.

I agree with this take on the situation! :)

[moquif]

In the real world we call these people police officers, fireman and soldiers/sailors/marines.

Absolutely and I know the vast majority of these people have honorable motivations. But we're talking a make-believe world that's more akin to plays and sagas of ancient times than flesh-and-blood people doing real things. In fiction ordinary people are often thrust into extraordinary circumstances and they thrive. In real life that doesn't happen as often. Since superpowers are often given to ordinary people without the motivations of the police, firemen, soldiers we have more leeway to examine the question, "What is a hero?"

[Kenn]

I'd ask why are these the people you game with?

If you have common enough interests that they're as interested in playing super-heroes as you are in running them, you shouldn't have this problem.

If you have common enough interests that you're as interested in running self-interested people with powers as they're as interested in playing them, you shouldn't have this problem.

If you game together because you all love roll-playing games, a genre everyone likes needs to be found.

If you game together because they're your buds, so they're playing to be nice to you, who's interested in it you should either a) not game with them (not abuse their kindness) or b) ask them to play what you want to run and that not playing would be preferable to doing a half-assed job (expect something from their kindness).

[CrosshairCollie]

I actually like games where the campaign parameters aren't announced.

This is pretty much a recipe for getting at least one square peg in the game's round hole, in my experience. You'll wind up with at least one character whose leanings, regardless of which way they go, are contrary to everybody else. You know ... one Punisher, four Captains America, or one Captain America and four Punishers. In the end, the one oddball character will likely have to be retired because he simply can't function in a team dynamic.

[Hugh Neilson]

By contrast my friend Mike insisted that "we could open a cheese shop in Bora-Bora if we wanted too" and he'd work it into the game. He was lying, Hugh has the right of it. If your PC isn't going to play nice with the other PCs, I will let you roleplay by yourself, in a corner, without plot, as long as you like.

"Okay! I'm in the Tea Shop, what's going on in here?!"
"Eh... *scribbles*... it's a tea shop. People wander in and out. Most of them buy tea, scones, or the odd item off the shelf."
"Are there are any cute girls?"
"Yes, there's a disproportionate number of hippie-esque chicks who move in small groups."
"I hit on them!"
"They ignore you. Okay, you guys, with the plot who are doing stuff, as I was saying before, the ceiling has begun to collapse, and the three goblin squads are now rushing at your position full tilt, both to get out of the tunnel and, seemingly, to do their best to kick your ass. What do you do?"
"HEY! I said I hit on them!"
"And they keep ignoring you. I'll get back to you in a minute."

"You got 5 minutes in the tea shop. The other four players are entitled to their 5 minutes each. They are all together, so that's 20 minutes for them. Be a good chap and stay out of the way and we'll get back to you in 20 minutes."

[AliceTheOwl]

This happened so much with one particular player that there was a word for it: "Hobbitting." It was for the player who dug her heels in, whined about having to leave her safe, warm little home, and complained the whole way. Once the adventure was over, back she went, and, if the characters didn't wheedle her back out, in she stayed.

In one D&D game, she played a werewolf who hated cities, and had to be coaxed into them so the rest of us could gather supplies, track the bad guy's latest movements and machinations, and discover a cool shortcut. Half the plot seeds happened in cities, and most of us were cool with that, except the one player who'd made it a core of her character.

Not that I'm picking on anyone in particular . . . :whistle:

I was so wary of running into that type of player that I made it a requirement for my FH game that all characters MUST have heroic motivations, and at least one PsychLim supporting that.

[Lord Fyre]

Player 3: I don't think I should get involved, since I am a reformed demon I don't see why I should go. (oh my god hand me a gun please)

It is kind of interresting that a "Reformed Demon" would not be more highly motivated to "Do Good"? He/She clearly is not quite as reformed as the character thought.

[CrosshairCollie]

This happened so much with one particular player that there was a word for it: "Hobbitting." It was for the player who dug her heels in, whined about having to leave her safe, warm little home, and complained the whole way. Once the adventure was over, back she went, and, if the characters didn't wheedle her back out, in she stayed.

In one D&D game, she played a werewolf who hated cities, and had to be coaxed into them so the rest of us could gather supplies, track the bad guy's latest movements and machinations, and discover a cool shortcut. Half the plot seeds happened in cities, and most of us were cool with that, except the one player who'd made it a core of her character.

Not that I'm picking on anyone in particular . . . :whistle:

I was so wary of running into that type of player that I made it a requirement for my FH game that all characters MUST have heroic motivations, and at least one PsychLim supporting that.

This is one reason why I started banning Druids in D&D ... people kept 'overplaying' them.

[AliceTheOwl]

I think one CAN play a game that avoids cities and takes place just out in the woods, but it's extremely limiting.

[CrosshairCollie]

I think one CAN play a game that avoids cities and takes place just out in the woods, but it's extremely limiting.

Agreed.

I'd rather play a game that takes place in a city and rarely ventures into the wildnerness, myself. :)

[wrestlinggeek]

This thread reminds me of a game I ran a few years ago. It was pretty much a standard superhero game, and had been going a few sessions. Setting was in a Texas city on the Gulf Coast. I told the players that a category 5 hurricane was heading for their town (this was well before Katrina). I asked them what they were doing, and got discreptions of their plans for the hurricane party they were gonna have in one of the PC's basement. I gave them a blank look for almost a minute and then said something along the lines of "Would Superman sit in somebody's basement during a hurricane? Would the Avengers? Would freaking 'I have no real superpowers' Batman? " They kind of got the hint and went out heroin'.

[Querysphinx]

This reminds me of a time when my wonderful heroic PCs in a fantasy game decided to steal some horses from a caravan. By way of distraction they set fire to the market square...

The town hired the villains to hunt down the "heroes"

[Querysphinx]

Agreed.

I'd rather play a game that takes place in a city and rarely ventures into the wildnerness, myself. :)


When I run fantasy the heroes tend to do a lot of traveling, so wilderness encounters are common, but I stick to my old adage: There is no such thing as a "random" encounter.

I have had to deal with a player whose self-described alignment was "neutral greedy."

[CrosshairCollie]

As a sidenote, I can understand the concept of the reluctant hero. The guy who isn't sure of himself, isn't quite sure why he's doing the hero thing. I can get that; the thing is, he's still doing the hero thing, not erecting a Not My Problem Field.

[Certified]

They kind of got the hint and went out heroin'.

Forgive me the following reply comes from me reading this sentience as "went out and got heroin'." Please don't ask where the "and got" came from but I digress.

Maybe that's what happened? are you're players on the drugs? I mean really what kind of drug is heroin for a hero anyway? Superdyne now there's a drug for today's super hero who just wants to be left under a bridge.

[SSgt Baloo]

As a sidenote, I can understand the concept of the reluctant hero. The guy who isn't sure of himself, isn't quite sure why he's doing the hero thing. I can get that; the thing is, he's still doing the hero thing, not erecting a Not My Problem Field.

Emphasis added above. I've been too rep-happy the last 24 hours. Someone rep the nice doggie for me, 'kay?

[AliceTheOwl]

As a sidenote, I can understand the concept of the reluctant hero. The guy who isn't sure of himself, isn't quite sure why he's doing the hero thing. I can get that; the thing is, he's still doing the hero thing, not erecting a Not My Problem Field.
Precisely. I'm fairly fond of such characters, but I keep the "who am I?" angst for when there isn't imminent danger to all I hold dear. I've never needed to be prodded in the direction of the plot hook (though if my Teen Champions GM keeps turning the plot hook into a railroady trap, I just might . . .), and I've played a lot of "What's my motivation?" characters. In fact, my Teen Champions character is a half-demon who isn't sure this Doing Right thing feels quite right, but does it, anyway, figuring she'll sort it out eventually. (She makes up for it in snark and one-liners, mostly. And occasionally creeping out party members.)


Emphasis added above. I've been too rep-happy the last 24 hours. Someone rep the nice doggie for me, 'kay?
Got 'im. ^ v ^

[pinecone]

As a sidenote, I can understand the concept of the reluctant hero. The guy who isn't sure of himself, isn't quite sure why he's doing the hero thing. I can get that; the thing is, he's still doing the hero thing, not erecting a Not My Problem Field.

Yeah, I'd insist that the rest of the players be onboard...after all it's going to be their problem to provide motivation for agoriaphobic persons exploits.....

[Doctor Agenda]

This is off-topic, but I tried to give rep to Tiger Lilly and got the 'I must spread rep around' box. At first I thought I must have given her some earlier and forgot, but as she hasn't got any rep at all.... Would someone else try giving her (or him) a point, just to make sure there's not some kind of problem?

[CrosshairCollie]

This is off-topic, but I tried to give rep to Tiger Lilly and got the 'I must spread rep around' box. At first I thought I must have given her some earlier and forgot, but as she hasn't got any rep at all.... Would someone else try giving her (or him) a point, just to make sure there's not some kind of problem?

Unless the target of your repping has 50 or more posts (outside the Non-Gaming Discussion forum), none of it registers. That's probably it. :)

[Doctor Agenda]

Ah. Thanks for 'splainin'!

[KA.]

Here are links to pair of brilliant posts on crafting scenarios and involving Players and NPC's alike in them.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=921878&postcount=30

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=925023&postcount=32

And here is a link to a post dealing with new campaigns and 'loner' characters.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=562514&postcount=10

All I can say is the guy who posted that stuff sounds like someone I would like to have for a GM.

KA.







What? :D

[assault]

I think one CAN play a game that avoids cities and takes place just out in the woods, but it's extremely limiting.

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

The thing to remember is that people live in the countryside, too. There can be villages, farms and so on in "the woods".

In fact, if you were keen, you could probably take a city map, divide it into bite-sized chunks, and distribute it around a wilderness map, with each little chunk being a village! You might have to vary the proportions of stuff, but all the interesting things would be there:
castles/villas/manor houses (nobles, warriors)
wizards' towers
monasteries, village temples, hermits
bandit gangs
wandering monsters
inns
beggars

One of the best DnD games I played in was set in a dinky little village and its environs.

I like city settings, but rural settings work fine too.

If you want something even more wilderness-y, reduce the number of villages, and have more farms, hermits and non-humans. Think Grimm's Fairy Tales and Arthurian romances.

[Karmakaze]

One of the GM's in my circle of players has a list of questions players have to answer for their PCs Why is your character a hero? What are your character's feelings about killing? (you don't need to have a CvK, just have a clear answer) Why would your character join a team? If you don't have an answer to all three, then take some time to work on your concept until you do. (We later added "4. Why would a team want you on it", thanks to a particular player, who kept getting his PC's kicked off teams.)

The questions get varied a bit depending on genres, but it's usually a good first step towards weeding out problem concepts.

[Hugh Neilson]

Yeah, I'd insist that the rest of the players be onboard...after all it's going to be their problem to provide motivation for agoriaphobic persons exploits.....


I think one CAN play a game that avoids cities and takes place just out in the woods, but it's extremely limiting.

To my mind, there are two possibilities. First, make a character who dislikes, however intensely, the urban environment (or the wilderness), but will go there when this is necessary. Second, accept that your character will be out of the action when the storyline requires entering the environment which this character refuses to enter.

There is no requirement the other players stay with the problem character. If you have a friend or relative who hates RPG's, and refuses to go to a gaming convention, will you also refuse to go, or simply go without him or her? Maybe your friend detests hospitals - will you let that stop you from visiting a sick friend, or will you visit without this person?

[boomer]

This is pretty much a recipe for getting at least one square peg in the game's round hole, in my experience. You'll wind up with at least one character whose leanings, regardless of which way they go, are contrary to everybody else. You know ... one Punisher, four Captains America, or one Captain America and four Punishers. In the end, the one oddball character will likely have to be retired because he simply can't function in a team dynamic.


True it can be, but with my group of players it all works out. Even if we have 1 Punisher to 4 Caps the Punisher gets toned down by the 4 Caps. The group I game with (used to as I'm in Tennessee now and they are all in Cali...except for one who lives in Germany and one who lives in Oregon) is always aware that it's a Team effort, etc. New characters are always discussed with the GM and there have been many a time where someone was told "That guy would never have any motivation to hang out with a group. Change a disad or something to make it so he would at least tolerate a group." Hey Wolverine always preferred to work alone but was still a Team player when he wanted to be.

[boomer]

In our FH campaign we did lots of travelling too, and had the occassional character that wasn't comfortable in cities. We would always have volunteers stay out in the woods with them while the rest went into town. They accepted, like mentioned above, that they would have some down time while the rest of the party was occupied in the town. It can work out, you just have to have players willing to compromise.

[SSgt Baloo]

I began gaming when I was in the service. I didn't notice until I'd been gaming a while, but military folks (and some police) usually make a fairly cohesive team, and they do it without much prompting, if any. They query each other about their powers and abilities so they can cover each other's weaknesses and combine their strengths. You get some grandstanding, but rarely does it negatively impact on the other players. If it does, a word or two from the other players is usually enough to rectify things. When I finally started gaming with a group that included a majority of civilians, I was surprised at how nearly everybody seemed to want to take the game in a different direction. It took longer for them to organize and either everybody wanted to be the "leader" or they just didn't want someone else to lead. This wasn't "unacceptable", but it was an eye-opener.

Sometimes it can take a few sessions before everybody "gets it" in a way that doesn't grate on everybody else. Sometimes patience and a little "tough love" (as described by many above) will finally bring folks around. Everybody's different, and not everybody's been "indoctrinated" (either by the source material or military service).

[boomer]

I began gaming when I was in the service. I didn't notice until I'd been gaming a while, but military folks (and some police) usually make a fairly cohesive team, and they do it without much prompting, if any. They query each other about their powers and abilities so they can cover each other's weaknesses and combine their strengths. You get some grandstanding, but rarely does it negatively impact on the other players. If it does, a word or two from the other players is usually enough to rectify things. When I finally started gaming with a group that included a majority of civilians, I was surprised at how nearly everybody seemed to want to take the game in a different direction. It took longer for them to organize and either everybody wanted to be the "leader" or they just didn't want someone else to lead. This wasn't "unacceptable", but it was an eye-opener.

Sometimes it can take a few sessions before everybody "gets it" in a way that doesn't grate on everybody else. Sometimes patience and a little "tough love" (as described by many above) will finally bring folks around. Everybody's different, and not everybody's been "indoctrinated" (either by the source material or military service).

I bet combat rounds went so smooth with your military gaming group....man can you imagine....everyone was ready and had their actions already planned.....that is the one thing that can bog down a Hero gaming session especially with Noobs......

[SSgt Baloo]

I bet combat rounds went so smooth with your military gaming group....man can you imagine....everyone was ready and had their actions already planned.....that is the one thing that can bog down a Hero gaming session especially with Noobs......

Most of us were Air Force technicians. Our tactical and strategic expertise was somewhat lacking compared to some of the other services. Still, we did have the fundamental shared experience of cooperative effort. When someone was "stuck" for what to do, the other PCs would shout suggestions (when the circumstances allowed). Once we got a Forward Air Controller in the group, we learned to always have either a "switchboard" character (usually someone with mind link) or ensure each character had a communications device.