Nature + Fire = What?

[Ocelot]

I need a little help with my new campaign...

One of the basic premises of the campaign is that there are eight Primal Elements, the foundation of all magic.

These eight elements can also be combined into 36 non-primal elements. For example, Fire and Earth make Lava. Air and Water make Ice. Magic and Spirit make Dream. Et cetera, et cetera.

I've figured out what 35 of them are. I'm really stumped on the the 36th.

What do Fire and Nature magic make?

Feel free to run wild. Think of something you could base a whole group of spells on, and something you'd like to see as an elemental. So, please don't say "Charred Wood." There will be no Charredwoodamancers in my campaign. ;-)

PLEASE HELP!

Thank you.

[Shadowsoul]

Most if not all of these could be created with different combinations but I'll have a go anyway.

Smoke?

Oil/Coal?

Fury/Rage?

Madness?

Blood?

Love/Passion?

Life Energy? As in the heat or energy within a living being.

[Old Man]

Fear? Anger? Renewal? Cooked meat?

[CrosshairCollie]

Ash?

[Ocelot]

First, thank you for all your help.

Second, I really feel like I've got myself in a bind on this one. Painted myself into a corner, as it were...

Conflicts that I see so far...


Most if not all of these could be created with different combinations but I'll have a go anyway.

Smoke?
Thank you for having a go, but...

Smoke = Fire + Air (in my world, not always).


Oil/Coal?
Possible, but doubtful. See below.


Fury/Rage?

Love/Passion?

Alas, Spirit plus Water is "Emotion" in my campaign.


Madness?

Fire and Spirit = Insanity.


Blood?

Life Energy? As in the heat or energy within a living being.

I actually went with this for a while - Life. I thought about Blood, but passed. Life is what I've got, but I don't know what Life magic would do, since Nature and Spirit are Healing magic, and between Spirit and Healing, that pretty much sums up "Life," right?


Fear? Anger? Renewal? Cooked meat?

Fear/Anger, see emotion. Renewal? Mmm...

Cookedmeatomancer has a certain ring to it, though.


Ash?

That sounds suspiciously like ground up charred wood. ;-)


Maybe a better way to phrase it, to wrap our minds around it so I can better beg for your help, is...

What kind of spells might a pyromancer and a druid both be able to cast? That don't involve storms or lightning?

Thanks,

Ocelot

[Derek Hiemforth]

Fear? Anger? Renewal? Cooked meat?

Renewal is the first thing I thought of too. Rebirth, etc.

[Ocelot]

Renewal is the first thing I thought of too. Rebirth, etc.

While I like the phoenix connotations, the powers of healing and regeneration are going to be under the auspices of "Healing" magic, which doesn't leave Renewal with a very large domain.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Could be a "darker" side of Healing... no rebirth without accompanying death, no gain without pain, etc.

[Blue Jogger]

In my game, I have something called Death Magic (sometimes called Dragon's Fire), it has some aspects of Fire and when you are touched by it, it doesn't just burns not your flesh, but drinks the very essence and grows stronger from it.

Some call it a poison, some call it an addiction, even the toughest of pyromancers don't play with Dragon's Fire lightly.

[Comic]

Maybe if we saw the whole list, we'd see the hole in the list?

Fire + Nature could be so many things. Terror, pandemonium, rebirth, civilization, anodyne, dragons...

[Sociotard]

Nookie.

[Wayside]

Destruction, living flame (perhaps any of the cardinal elements tied to nature would create elementals?)

Those are the only two that come to mind that havn't already been suggested.

[Shadowsoul]

I would probably call this Water + Fire. But how about Acid?

The magic of Life Energy would be all about motion and heat, playing with people's energy levels or body chemistry to affect their emotions or damage them somehow. Spells would include a NND Killing Attack that just raises the core temperature of the body, but you could also cloud the senses or make people high, give someone extra stun or end (feeding them extra energy) or take it away. A cool little spell could be called Scales of Energy, drains End from an opponent and pulls it right into you or an ally.
It wouldn't be able to heal people but it could give them temporary Body and Stun which keeps them going but vanishes after the fight, at best you could speed up the natural healing process and give someone Regeneration for a while. You could also have spells of Frenzy or whatever but I guess you don't want to stray too far into the territory of Madness.

Otherwise I agree that you should post the list, we're all firing shots into the dark here.

[CrosshairCollie]

That sounds suspiciously like ground up charred wood. ;-)

Yes, but it certainly *sounds* better. :)

[Steve Long]

What do Fire and Nature magic make?

They give you Hunted: Smokey The Bear 14- (As Pow, NCI, Maul). :eg:

[Super Squirrel]

Ash seems to be the answer. In my world design, Nature and Fire are adjacent, with Fire being the dominent, destructive element of the pairing.

[Lord Liaden]

I actually went with this for a while - Life. I thought about Blood, but passed. Life is what I've got, but I don't know what Life magic would do, since Nature and Spirit are Healing magic, and between Spirit and Healing, that pretty much sums up "Life," right?


Nope. Life is also Animation, the power of voluntary movement. You could Animate inanimate matter, or living matter which is normally very slow, like plants. Life is Growth, becoming more mature, or becoming larger and/or stronger and tougher. Life is Reproduction, creating more of itself (Duplication or Summoning).

[Flames]

If we could see the entire grid, maybe get an idea what's generally being called for, might make it easier to come up with an answer.

Everything that comes to my mind is fairly abstract.

"Fertility" perhaps?

[Starwolf]

Fire + Nature = California in the Summer :D

[pinecone]

Yeah, knowing what it's not would help...Fire+Nature......Digestion is a sort of "fire"...so is a Fever......so is Rot

[Super Squirrel]

If we could see the entire grid, maybe get an idea what's generally being called for, might make it easier to come up with an answer.

Everything that comes to my mind is fairly abstract.

"Fertility" perhaps?
You know... I see Fire as an element of creation and destruction. In that contest, Fertility makes a bit of sense.

[Doc Democracy]

My first thought for Fire + Nature is the Sun. There isn't a bigger natural conflagration anywhere close by.....


Doc

[CrosshairCollie]

My first thought for Fire + Nature is the Sun. There isn't a bigger natural conflagration anywhere close by.....


Doc

Good one!

[CrosshairCollie]

They give you Hunted: Smokey The Bear 14- (As Pow, NCI, Maul). :eg:

"ONLY YOU!"
*DISEMBOWEL*

[input.jack]

Nope. Life is also Animation, the power of voluntary movement. You could Animate inanimate matter, or living matter which is normally very slow, like plants. Life is Growth, becoming more mature, or becoming larger and/or stronger and tougher. Life is Reproduction, creating more of itself (Duplication or Summoning).

This is an excellent suggestion. Also, there can be a difference between "healing" magic, and magic used to ensure fertility, if thats how you want to take it. But I think the "Fire + Nature" = Animation" is a great way to go.

[Lord Liaden]

Yeah, knowing what it's not would help...Fire+Nature......Digestion is a sort of "fire"...so is a Fever......so is Rot

Consumption of matter and energy for fuel/building materials is another of the defining qualities of Life. Might justify Transfer and Absorption.

[Manic Typist]

Fire+ Nature= Light.
Fire+ Nature= Will
Fire + Nature= Death

[Ocelot]

They give you Hunted: Smokey The Bear 14- (As Pow, NCI, Maul). :eg:

Mad props.

I think I'm going to go with "Combat." I took a look at all my old red/green gold M:TG cards, and that seems to be the dominant theme.

The magic governs the combination of the ferocity of fire with the preservation instinct of nature. Spells that make one stronger and more vicious in combat, more capable of incredible acts of desperation and a will to survive.

I think I'm going to call it Eyeofthetigeromancy.


Look for it in a few weeks, when I drop a rather sizeable campaign on the forums.

Thank you all SO MUCH for all your help.

[Querysphinx]

Pitching in late here:

The first thing that sprang to my feeble little mind was rebirth.

There are certain species of pine trees including the mighty sequoia that can't germinate their seeds without fire.

There's also an old Chinese legend where a prospective suitor to a rich man's daughter. Naturally he was given three impossible tasks to perform. One of these tasks was "Kill something and bring it back to life." In the tradition of such tests he chopped down a tree, killing it, and then making a fire which was "alive."

If I was you, I'd go with "Transformation"

[csyphrett]

You can also use this combination for age, entropy, disease.
CES

[steph]

What is your 8 basic elements?
stef

[MorpheousXO]

If life isn't one of the 8 basics, then yeah I'd definitely think that'd work well for the combo.

Life is growth, but also consider that disease is alive, thus wouldn't disease be under the provision of life? Bacteria as well.

Ooh, lemme quess on the elements:

Fire
Earth
Water
Air

Spirit
Nature
Magic
Taxes

Was that it?

[Old Man]

"ONLY YOU!"
*DISEMBOWEL*

Disembowelment with a dirty shovel... I can think of better ways to die.

[MorpheousXO]

What is your 8 basic elements?
stef

Bump because inquiring minds want to know!

[Ocelot]

Fire
Earth
Water
Air

Spirit
Nature
Magic
Taxes



Bump because inquiring minds want to know!

Inquiring minds were right. The whole thing'll be posted down the road, including all 36 combination elements.

[steph]

cool

[Toadmaster]

They give you Hunted: Smokey The Bear 14- (As Pow, NCI, Maul). :eg:


We have a very unauthorised poster at work (the Smokey people are quite uptight about the depiction of Smokey), it has an extremely angry looking Smokey and underneath it says put out your smokes or Smokey will crush your butt.

[MorpheousXO]

Inquiring minds were right. The whole thing'll be posted down the road, including all 36 combination elements.

*blink blink*

Taxes are really one of your elements?

*blink blink*

and upon further thinking I had figured it would be divine (didn't put that originally cause for some reason i was thinkin Spirit=Divine, when really Spirit=Shaman, Nature=Druid, Magic=Mage, Divine=Priest).

[MorpheousXO]

We have a very unauthorised poster at work (the Smokey people are quite uptight about the depiction of Smokey), it has an extremely angry looking Smokey and underneath it says put out your smokes or Smokey will crush your butt.

But what about Smokey the Bugbear?

"Only YOU can prevent Forest Elves!"

Sorry, old thing your post reminded me of from DnD days.

[sbarron]

I realize I'm coming in late. However, that's never stopped me before...I would have gone with things in nature that in some way burn. So, the kinds of spells Nature + Fire would get you would be...

1. Animal Venoms (they don't actually burn your skin, but they feel like they're burning)
2. Plant Poisons (contact with causes burning in the skin/eyes, poison oak, ivy, etc.)
3. Infections (really just small animals getting inside and causing a fever)
4. Dragonfire and other dragon related stuff
5. Any other fire-related creatures you have in your world (phoenix, elementals, demons, etc., so long as its a natural animal with fire motif)

[Ocelot]

*blink blink*

Taxes are really one of your elements?

*blink blink*

and upon further thinking I had figured it would be divine (didn't put that originally cause for some reason i was thinkin Spirit=Divine, when really Spirit=Shaman, Nature=Druid, Magic=Mage, Divine=Priest).

Wow, I think I may have repped you for nothing. I thought you were making some play on the joke about Death and Taxes.

The eighth Primal Element is Death, people. It's Death.

[MorpheousXO]

Wow, I think I may have repped you for nothing. I thought you were making some play on the joke about Death and Taxes.

The eighth Primal Element is Death, people. It's Death.

I actually was making a play on death and taxes, it was later that I thought that divine might be separate from spirit. Who knows, though. :confused:

[Shadowsoul]

So what's Fire+Death? That's gotta be pretty spectacularly nasty.

[MorpheousXO]

So what's Fire+Death? That's gotta be pretty spectacularly nasty.

Rot, Plague and Disease, i'd wager.

[Old Man]

Pain? Eradication? Ash? Dust? Britney Spears?

[MorpheousXO]

Pain? Eradication? Ash? Dust? Britney Spears?

Nah, she's not good enough for fire or death, maybe chaos to represent her state of mind.

[Ocelot]

All in due time...

[BNakagawa]

Nature + Fire = BBQ.

[Enforcer84]

Nookie.
Ah, the not so dreaded Nookiemancer.

[Enforcer84]

Nature + Fire = BBQ.
Cooking. This is where all the magic chefs come from.

[Captain Obvious]

Ah, the not so dreaded Nookiemancer.

The highly-in-demand Nookiemancer...

[The Monster]

Nature + Fire = Spontaneous Combustion :angst:

[PhilFleischmann]

Fire + Nature = ?

How 'bout Technology, or Knowledge?

And how exactly do you get 36 combinations out of 8 elements? By my calculations, there are only 28 possible pairs.

[Ocelot]

Fire + Nature = ?

How 'bout Technology, or Knowledge?

And how exactly do you get 36 combinations out of 8 elements? By my calculations, there are only 28 possible pairs.

Sorry. I keep thinking n! instead of n!-n.

There are 28 combinations, plus the rules governing the eight primal elements.

And for me, Nature and Technology would be antithetical. ;-)

[PhilFleischmann]

Sorry. I keep thinking n! instead of n!-n.

There are 28 combinations, plus the rules governing the eight primal elements.
And now I realize what you originally meant: 36 = the 8 elements + the 28 combinations. (and BTW, it's not n! - "n factorial" the *product* of numbers 1-n, but the *sum* of the numbers 1-n, but it isn't even that, it's n(n-1)/2. But no biggie, we all know what you meant.)


And for me, Nature and Technology would be antithetical. ;-)
But it certainly doesn't have to be that way. "Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." You can't make an airplane until you understand the nature of air and gravity, for example. Fire (one of man's first technological achievements, and symbolizing illumination and the spark of imagination and innovation) plus the natural world, results in the willful improvement of man's lot in the world. Nature + fire means we can keep ourselves warm in the winter. Nature + fire means we can eat cooked meat instead of raw meat, resulting in less disease, preservation of food rather than spoilage, etc. Nature + fire means we have light to see, even when it's dark. All technological improvements.

[Captain Obvious]

Phil makes a good argument here.

[Ocelot]

He does, indeed. Though for the flavor of my campaign, it's a poor fit. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with "Combat." It just works for me. But thank you.

[steph]

hope you dont forget to put all the result of your magic system:)
excuse my english
stef

[MorpheousXO]

hope you dont forget to put all the result of your magic system:)
excuse my english
stef

Hai!

Let's see it! :thumbup:

[Shadowsoul]

hope you dont forget to put all the result of your magic system:)
excuse my english
stef

Yep, let's have a look.

(Crosses fingers behind back)

We promise not to steal it. :sneaky:

(Uncrosses fingers).

[MorpheousXO]

Yep, let's have a look.

(Crosses fingers behind back)

We promise not to steal it. :sneaky:

(Uncrosses fingers).

Well, I know I won't be using it, I've already got my "elements" down. :celebrate

I just wanna see cause I'm int'rested.