Characteristics in an EC

[JmOz]

Anyone having allowed it? Weaknesses, strengths? Thinking it would make ALOT of sense for a speedster I am working on, as his Dex/Speed should be drained simultaniously with his running (and to a lesser extent his FF power)

Thoughts...

I am thinking aout just placing a -1/4 lim on drain one, drain all,,,

[GloryFox]

Allowing Characteristics other than those granted from powers such as Growth are very problematic. Your asking for trouble as a G.M.:thumbdown

[nexus]

I allow it but it it has to close fit the concept and they fall under my rules for Drains vs ECs It is potentially easy to abuse to bears watching.

[JmOz]

I allow it but it it has to close fit the concept and they fall under my rules for Drains vs ECs It is potentially easy to abuse to bears watching.

What are your rules about Drains vs EC's?

[nexus]

What are your rules about Drains vs EC's?

Elemental controls are treated as one power for the purpose of Adjustment powers.

For example if a mutant has a "Body of Steel" Elemental Control which contains Armor and Strength and it's hit by a drain the could effect mutant powers one a a time his entire EC can be targeted as one power.

[nexus]

What are your rules about Drains vs EC's?

Elemental controls are treated as one power for the purpose of Adjustment powers.

For example if a mutant has a "Body of Steel" Elemental Control which contains Armor and Strength and it's hit by a drain the could effect mutant powers one a a time his entire EC can be targeted as one power. Generally, I ask that Characteristics in an EC take "No Figured characteristics" too but not all the time.

[JmOz]

Elemental controls are treated as one power for the purpose of Adjustment powers.

For example if a mutant has a "Body of Steel" Elemental Control which contains Armor and Strength and it's hit by a drain the could effect mutant powers one a a time his entire EC can be targeted as one power.

Coolness, that is nicer (to the receipint of the drain) than mine is actualy (I use the base rules from 5th)

[Zed-F]

Definitely open to abuse. But then, what isn't. Still, I wouldn't allow characteristics in an EC without a very compelling reason. Characteristics in a MP or VPP I have a bit less trouble with but it still bears watching.

[Comic]

Once made the mistake of building a character with combat skill levels in an EC...

*shudder*

Characteristics are only marginally less problematic.

While some players do it, and some GMs allow it, and sometimes the results are fine, it's one of the things I'll do my best to avoid for my characters, based on that one experience.

[Derek Hiemforth]

As a GM, I Just Say No to Characteristics in Elemental Controls. Yes, there are times when it seems to make sense. But then you suddenly find that it makes sense for tons of different SFX, and the next thing you know, you've got a campaign full of characters with half their CHAs in ECs.

IMO, if you or other players in your group are considering doing the CHAs-In-ECs bit, it's a sign that you're not happy with the starting points allowed to characters. (Not that the power levels need to go up, necessarily... just the starting points.)

As a GM, I'd rather raise the campaign's starting points by 50, or even 100 points if people are feeling the crunch, rather than start messing around with CHAs in ECs.

[Gideon]

For the most part I say no stats in an EC.

My reason is simple: The book says that you cannot buy a power in an EC unless it costs end.

Therefore, my one exception is if you buy a stat (say +5 Dex) with an end cost. So you can do it, but it's going to cost you 1 end a phase.

Oh, and I don't allow "costs end only to activate" on stats in an EC.

[Alibear]

I would allow extra dex (with no figured characteristcs lim) and extra speed if they cost end to use. Sure.

[Shaft]

I'm in total agreement with Gideon.

Allowing Stats in an EC circumvents the costs. PCs can come up with a variety of reasons to buy their attributes through an EC and link it to the effect. A Speedster will start off just raising his DEX and SPD, then state that the stress of superspeed on his body augments his STR, CON and BODY. The same process alows his mind to process information faster and put extra INT in the EC. Then he'll say that his boosted time rate gives him better focusing abilities, and use that to raise his EGO, and then he'll use the constant display of his speed powers as an excuse to boost his PRE. And then just to sweep through all the primary attirbutes, he'll say that the superspeed gives him extra time to make himself pretty in the morning and raise his COM.

Meanwhile, as they see how awesome the Speedster is, all the other PCs start thinking about how to justify buying their attributes through an EC...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Or to put an even finer point on it...

The CHAs you typically see people wanting to put in ECs are STR, DEX, and SPD. STR and DEX are already the two most cost-effective things you can buy in the game system in terms of the benefits they provide for their cost. Each point of SPD probably contributes more to a character's overall impact on the game than 10 points spent virtually anywhere else.

If anything, STR, DEX, and SPD should be more expensive... not less. ;)

[Hugh Neilson]

I consider the argument that many characteristics are already frameworks of their own, providing access to several abilities which, purchased independently, would cost more, often significantly more, to be quite persuasive. And you can't put a framework in a framework.

"Must cost END without GM permission" doesn't keep STR out of an EC. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of the "must either cost END or have reduced END advantage" restriction on EC's as it creates a level of arbitrariness I dislike (but that's another topic).

[Bloodstone]

I agree, bears watching

http://www.naturetrek.co.uk/pics/st_brown_bear.jpg

Especially if your EC is "God of Myth and Lore" or "Solar Powered Alien".

Of course if EVERYONE is on that level and using the rules that way, it will probably balance in the end. But pity the fool that isn't taking advantage of the savings.... unless those EC's get drained a LOT...

[nexus]

Personally, I'm pretty restrictive on what I'll allow as an EC so it hasn't been a big issue for me but yes, it's something that if you allow it. It should be watched closely. OTOH, many things in Hero are like that.

[Cardinal]

The CHAs you typically see people wanting to put in ECs are STR, DEX, and SPD. STR and DEX are already the two most cost-effective things you can buy in the game system in terms of the benefits they provide for their cost. Each point of SPD probably contributes more to a character's overall impact on the game than 10 points spent virtually anywhere else.

If anything, STR, DEX, and SPD should be more expensive... not less. ;)

It's too bad there aren't any threads dissecting this topic in more depth. That would be interesting to read. :dh:

:) With that said, I agree with Derek's point here. Stats in ECs are not necessary and open the danger of munchkin wars.

I also agree with LL's point about the END cost rule for ECs being arbitrary. But, as he said, that is a topic for another thread.

[ghost-angel]

I've seen it twice.
Once in a standard campaign - and it broke the game nicely.
Once in a high powered campaign, and it didn't have any adverse effects.

Both times the Characteristics were DEX and SPD.

So I would say, it's possible it won't be abusive but it depends heavily on the Players and style of Campaign you're in/running. I'd be very very careful of it, leaning towards denial.

[Shaft]

"Must cost END without GM permission" doesn't keep STR out of an EC.

STR is the only characteristic allowed in an EC, but must be bought with the "no figured characteristics" limitation.

[gmurie]

I'd only allow it for STR as a temporary boost, or that has some sort of limitation not shared by the base STR, and it's always got to be No Figured Characteristics. All that and it's got to fit a theme that's more interesting than "Really Strong" or "Speedster".

I might allow an "Adrenaline Overdrive" EC with boosts to STR and SPD for example, but there'd have to be some hefty limits on them like an Enraged Side Effect as well as No Figured on the STR.

It's pretty easy to separate out those players who are trying to cram Stats into an EC because they're munchkins and those players who are just trying to work a theme.

[Gideon]

STR is the only characteristic allowed in an ECI disagree. IMO a constant power that is in an EC must cost end to have active not simply to use. Thats what I meant earlier. I will only allow STR in an EC if you have to "activate" the STR and pay end to have it active as well as paying the normal end to use it.


but must be bought with the "no figured characteristics" limitation.You are right, and I realized I forgot to mention that I also impose the No Figured Characteristics lim on any characteristics in an EC.

[TheQuestionMan]

No Characteristics in Elemental Controls, period.

IMOHO

QM

[GamePhil]

I allowed it once for STR, but I did not allow it to give Figured Characteristics, nor did I allow it to take the No Figured Characteristics Limitation (this was 4th Edition, before Steve's clarification of the rule on that). The player quickly gave up on it and bought it normally. I actually thought it was a pretty good deal.

With the guidelines that EC's now work under, Characteristics in EC's might be manageable. They get drained along with any other Power, can't add to Figured Characteristics, and really, STR is the only one that doesn't need GM's permission (any more than anything else, that is). STR in an EC couldn't be used in MPA's with other Powers in it (I might not allow it to be used with Martial Attacks, either, but I'm prone to that, anyway).

I might be inclined to allow END in one. Why should END Reserves get all the cost breaks? Possibly Recovery, especially if it only affected END.

Probably never PD or ED, buy a non-resistant Force Field.

The others? Convince me that your EC conception is compelling enough, that it is logical to have the Characteristic drained with all of the other Powers, and that I should ignore the END thing, and sure. This is unlikely, but I don't want to discount someone having something REALLY cool that I can't think of a better way to build. Hey, it could happen.

[Worldmaker]

Elemental controls are treated as one power for the purpose of Adjustment powers.

For example if a mutant has a "Body of Steel" Elemental Control which contains Armor and Strength and it's hit by a drain the could effect mutant powers one a a time his entire EC can be targeted as one power. Generally, I ask that Characteristics in an EC take "No Figured characteristics" too but not all the time.


I use almost the same rules.

[JmOz]

I allowed it once for STR, but I did not allow it to give Figured Characteristics, nor did I allow it to take the No Figured Characteristics Limitation (this was 4th Edition, before Steve's clarification of the rule on that). The player quickly gave up on it and bought it normally. I actually thought it was a pretty good deal.

With the guidelines that EC's now work under, Characteristics in EC's might be manageable. They get drained along with any other Power, can't add to Figured Characteristics, and really, STR is the only one that doesn't need GM's permission (any more than anything else, that is). STR in an EC couldn't be used in MPA's with other Powers in it (I might not allow it to be used with Martial Attacks, either, but I'm prone to that, anyway).

I might be inclined to allow END in one. Why should END Reserves get all the cost breaks? Possibly Recovery, especially if it only affected END.

Probably never PD or ED, buy a non-resistant Force Field.

The others? Convince me that your EC conception is compelling enough, that it is logical to have the Characteristic drained with all of the other Powers, and that I should ignore the END thing, and sure. This is unlikely, but I don't want to discount someone having something REALLY cool that I can't think of a better way to build. Hey, it could happen.


I am more and more leaning towards either a weird Aid idea I had, or more likely just applying a -1/4 lim I am calling "Drain Linked", as the big thing for me here is that the characters Dex/Speed should be drained with his other superspeed powers (A FF based on combat luck, and running)

[hfergus]

I allow it, if the concept just about demands it. I'd have to see it. The costs endurance - it depends on concept. No figured characteristics - never seen a concept that I allowed chars in that did not demand this limitation. Most of the time I find a better concept and good way to buy it without doing this.

[Bloodstone]

I am more and more leaning towards either a weird Aid idea I had, or more likely just applying a -1/4 lim I am calling "Drain Linked", as the big thing for me here is that the characters Dex/Speed should be drained with his other superspeed powers (A FF based on combat luck, and running)

I swear that Drained As Part of EC -1/4 is in 5ER somewhere...

[Tech]

I'm rather lenient with it comes to EC but being lenient doesn't mean I'm stupid. ;) I've seen some real odd EC's but since there are 4 GM's in our campaign, nothing earth-shattering has happened.

[Vestnik]

I might allow an "Adrenaline Overdrive" EC with boosts to STR and SPD for example, but there'd have to be some hefty limits on them like an Enraged Side Effect as well as No Figured on the STR.


I just use Aid, Self Only, Costs END.

[DrunkonDUty]

>>>> Especially if your EC is "God of Myth and Lore" or "Solar Powered Alien" <<<

I saw a guy do exactly this. His character was an Eternal (from Marvel Universe) and he swore black and blue that having everything bar his skills in the EC was justified by the character concept. GM allowed it, I refused to play in the campaign. That was one broken campaign thanks to that particular Mary Sue character. It was better at everything than any other character. Don't allow it!

[Bloodstone]

I swear that Drained As Part of EC -1/4 is in 5ER somewhere...

Well, may not be in 5ER, but it's in UEP on p36

[jtelson]

Well, may not be in 5ER, but it's in UEP on p36

I have to assume that's for something that isn't already in the EC.

[Markdoc]

Like most posters here I'd allow it .... rarely. In general, I'm pretty restrictive about what goes into an EC - it has to be a tightly defined power set.

So I would (and in fact have) allowed "Werewolf powers" because, illogical as they seem, they are a set that has been well-hallowed by fiction and are limited in what can be included - either you buy the full set, or none of them: and they come with some severe limitations (the whole moon thing). That set did, IIRC include extra STR and DEX.

However, I'd be pretty damn iffy about "Cyborg powers" and something like "alien powers" or "magical powers" is right out.

In one game, we actually had a character suggested (it was rejected) who was a straight superman clone, with pretty much everything (super SPD, Super STR, Super INT, Super rPD) in an EC, based on the idea that just like a certain DC character, under specific circumstances, he was just a regular joe in his underwear. My comment was that I wanted an EC too, with the special effect that it contained "superpowers". :D

cheers, Mark

[Comic]

I might take the opposite position of a person who wants characteristics in an EC, and put the -0 Limitation, "Requires Characteristic Minimum" on the EC as a whole.

That way, for example in a speed-based character, if the character's SPD is voluntarily dropped, or is drained or suppressed, etc, the entire EC isn't available.

In this way, the theme of the character remains linked game-mechanically, and the player is rewarded for having characteristics in concept, by being rewarded with an EC for their related powers.

It's something I'd definitely do for a Marvel Eternal. Their powers come from their innate characteristics, not the other way around, so to speak. Something profoundly powerful enough to damage their Eternal level of power down to a mortal level would certainly rob them of their Eternalness.

[ghost-angel]

Well, may not be in 5ER, but it's in UEP on p36


I have to assume that's for something that isn't already in the EC.

Yes. It's a Limitation that allows you to attach Powers to an EC that either can't go in it, or don't meet the minimum cost/Active Point requirements. Or simply to build an EC-like suite of Powers.

I've used it a couple of times in lieu of an EC for sets of Powers with a wider range of AP than you see in an EC.

[eternal_sage]

i guess i'm lucky, since all my players are either also GMs or GMs-in-training, so most game balance doesn't really apply. we all just police ourselves and never have any problems. i personally played a game in which i had STR, DEX, CON, and BODY in an EC. it went fine, because it was only 10 points worth (just enough to put him squarely in the 20-30 range) but i actually ended up being the one lagging behind in that game. of course the character was really spread out, having martial arts, flight, and energy projection powers (flight and energy projection in a MP). then again, alot of my powers had activation rolls too. i dunno. but yea, i couldn't put up the damage of our TK character, the speed (SPD or action order) of our speedster character, or the hand to hand of our dedicated brick/martial artist. bleh.

[pawsplay]

In almost every circumstanceI can think of, you can simply Link extra STR to one of the powers in the EC and get the desired effect.

SPD is trickier. I can definitely see the Speedster argument... shouldn't their SPD be connected to their superspeed? But it's probably a deceptive argument. Just about any SFX of an adjustment power that would affect "super speed" would affect both anyway. Just define part of the SPD as a power, not in the EC, and it's now immune to physiological SPD-affecting drains but vulnerable to mutant power affecting drains, etc.

[JmOz]

>>>> Especially if your EC is "God of Myth and Lore" or "Solar Powered Alien" <<<

I saw a guy do exactly this. His character was an Eternal (from Marvel Universe) and he swore black and blue that having everything bar his skills in the EC was justified by the character concept. GM allowed it, I refused to play in the campaign. That was one broken campaign thanks to that particular Mary Sue character. It was better at everything than any other character. Don't allow it!

Not saying it should be permited, but I can see an argument being made that an alien package deal created by the GM allowing an EC

In otherwords, If I was running a DC based Champs game, having a Kryptonian/Daxamite Package deal that uses an EC could work, but I would have a serious problem with extending the same privalage to a player created race(UNLESS the player is going to get hunted by others of his race...)

You know that is an interesting quiestion, In your opinion, If the player takes a disad (thinking hunted) that would drive the weakness of the EC home, say a Drain based villian, or a sause for the goose is gravy for the gander villain, would a more abusive build be permisible...

[nexus]

Not saying it should be permitted, but I can see an argument being made that an alien package deal created by the GM allowing an EC

In otherwords, If I was running a DC based Champs game, having a Kryptonian/Daxamite Package deal that uses an EC could work, but I would have a serious problem with extending the same privilege to a player created race(UNLESS the player is going to get hunted by others of his race...)

You know that is an interesting question, In your opinion, If the player takes a disad (thinking hunted) that would drive the weakness of the EC home, say a Drain based villain, or a sauce for the goose is gravy for the gander villain, would a more abusive build be permissible...

Hero is an incredibly flexible system but that flexibility comes with a price. It’s very hard to blanket statements about it. Characters are more than just bits and pieces so it’s best to look at the whole package; what’s abusive in one build might be acceptable in another. Campaign guidelines, Rule of X and other means are good rules of thumb but it really takes the GM evaluation. So I’d say yes, its possible that the character’s Disadvantages might mitigate an abusive build.

[Southern Cross]

I'd also like to point out that you can put an 0END,Self Only Succor, into an EC and have it affect multiple Characteristics.

[Spence]

I have allowed it in the past, but as an augment, not the main characteristic. And then only with a really good reasoning and limits.

For example: A PC that transforms into living stone may want additional STR in addition to what he gains from the Density Increase. I would allow +X STR but only if it was linked into the DI slot.

I don't allow bare characteristics in a EC. for example: Slot one is +10 STR.

And of course each is case by case.

[Bloodstone]

Not saying it should be permited, but I can see an argument being made that an alien package deal created by the GM allowing an EC

In otherwords, If I was running a DC based Champs game, having a Kryptonian/Daxamite Package deal that uses an EC could work, but I would have a serious problem with extending the same privalage to a player created race(UNLESS the player is going to get hunted by others of his race...)

Yeah, but do you need the EC to save points or do you need it because you want all of their powers to be reduced by Kryptonite/Lead? You can easily do the latter with disadvantages and limitations.

Now mind you, I'm not saying this is what you're doing with your proposed Speedster.

But IMX, most of the time when I see EC's like "Asguardian Might" or "Kryptonian" it's because someone wants to play a character who's concept is just too expensive for the starting points they were given. Sometimes only a little too expensive... and sometimes a hell of a lot.

It's like saying you can build Superman on 350 points. Then you build Clark Kent with 350 points sunk into Multiform, Instant Change, Not in the Presence of Green Kryptonite or Red Sun Radiation (-1/2). It does a reasonable job of simulating the character, so long as you ignore the rules suggesting that you not do this sort of thing...

[JmOz]

Yeah, but do you need the EC to save points or do you need it because you want all of their powers to be reduced by Kryptonite/Lead? You can easily do the latter with disadvantages and limitations.

Now mind you, I'm not saying this is what you're doing with your proposed Speedster.

But IMX, most of the time when I see EC's like "Asguardian Might" or "Kryptonian" it's because someone wants to play a character who's concept is just too expensive for the starting points they were given. Sometimes only a little too expensive... and sometimes a hell of a lot.

It's like saying you can build Superman on 350 points. Then you build Clark Kent with 350 points sunk into Multiform, Instant Change, Not in the Presence of Green Kryptonite or Red Sun Radiation (-1/2). It does a reasonable job of simulating the character, so long as you ignore the rules suggesting that you not do this sort of thing...

It has more to do with looking at it as the Kryptonian/Daxamite Power set has a couple key characteristics that I consider valid reasons to sugest (Not accept) a EC for. First there are some well defined powers that make up what they can do (Flight, Superstrength, Invulnerability, Laser eyes, etc...), however some/most of the outlineing powers I would not permit (My kiss is so powerful it makes you forget that night of passion in the fortress...You got to be kidding me). Second, there are multiple characters who have similar abilities, on both sides of the divide. Third, and final, it is rare for him to loose one power, it always seems to be a Parasite drains all of his abilities at once. The second point resonates with me alot

Now admitingly most people IME who use EC's (Or global lims like OIHID or OIF:Battle armor) are looking for a cost break, me no exception. The question is wether or not you are willing to pay the cost for the cost break

[eternal_sage]

when i played Tachyon (the above mention character with an EC) it was the GMs first experience running HERO (he'd only played once before), so i explained very clearly the advantages and disadvantages of the build (i had to point out to him on two occasions the thing about drains), so it was a bit of a rocky start, but ended up fun. benefits of a group of GMs playing, i guess.

[JmOz]

This is the current build I am thinking of right now, nothing is set in stone. The character is extremly powerful for the game. To help compensate I placed a restrainable limitaion on the EC, which helped me create what I consider a fairly unique speedster concept. The idea is that Mongoose absorbs energy that is channeled into superspeed, the current power level is assuming a fairly normal amount of background energy, I am thinking of either adding an aid to represent building up in high energy places (say at a power plant, or is some science labs), or calling it part of the F/X (Totaly controled, and arbitraily at that, by the GM). Pulse, as a villain is seen as being a energy projector for the most part, but with the unique power to absorb all E-M radiation (A Darkness to the radio group of powers). This will prevent Mongoose from using the superspeed. Viper also knows about this limitation and has devices designed to maximise on it

Anyways, thoughts?...By the way I am more than willing to take sugestions on the Aid power...

Mongoose

Player:

Val Char Cost
15 STR 5
12/32 DEX 6
20 CON 20
12 BODY 4
18 INT 8
11 EGO 2
18 PRE 8
14 COM 2

5/10 PD 2
5/10 ED 1
6 SPD 8
7 REC 0
40 END 0
30 STUN 0

25" RUN 0
2" SWIM 0
3" LEAP 0
Characteristics Cost: 66

Cost Power
12 Superspeed: Elemental Control, 30-point powers, (15 Active Points); all slots Restrainable (Only by means other than Grabs and Entangles; -1/4)
22 1) Hyper Agility: +20 DEX (60 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4)
10 3) Hyper Speed: +3 SPD (30 Active Points); Nonpersistent (-1/4)
26 5) Hyperr movement: Running +19" (25" total), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (47 Active Points)
11 6) Combat Luck: FF (5 PD/5 ED) (Protect Carried Items), Hardened (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (35 Active Points); Combat Luck Based (-1/2)
6 Team Communicator: HRRP (Radio Group) (12 Active Points); Sense Affected As Sight, Hearing, & Radio (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)
Powers Cost: 87

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver
5 Flying Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +4 DCV, Dodge All Attacks, Abort; FMove
5 Passing Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 3d6 +v/5; Target Falls; FMove
5 Passing Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Disarm, 25 STR to Disarm; FMove
Martial Arts Cost: 15

Cost Skill
1 Acting 8-
3 Breakfall 11- (15-)
3 Bribery 13-
3 Bureaucratics 13-
1 Combat Driving 8-
3 Concealment 13-
3 Conversation 13-
1 Criminology 8-
3 Deduction 13-
1 Forensic Medicine 8-
3 High Society 13-
3 Jack of All Trades
1 1) PS: Lawyer (2 Active Points) 11-
2 2) PS: Reporter (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 3) PS: Research (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 4) PS: Writer (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
4 Language: Native (idiomatic)
3 Lockpicking 11- (15-)
1 Paramedics 8-
3 Persuasion 13-
3 Power (DEX-based) 11- (15-)
3 Scholar
2 1) KS: Common Knowledge (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 2) KS: Criminal Law & Procedures (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 3) KS: Current events (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 4) KS: Super Villains (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
3 Seduction 13-
3 Shadowing 13-
3 Stealth 11- (15-)
3 Streetwise 13-
1 TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles
1 Teamwork 8-
3 Traveler
2 1) CK: Homeland (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 2) CuK: Criminal World (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 3) CuK: Journalistic World (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
2 4) CuK: Law Enforcment World (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13-
Skills Cost: 85

Cost Perk
7 Fringe Benefit: License to practice Law, Local Police Powers, Membership: Crusaders, Press Pass
3 Well-Connected
1 1) Contact (2 Active Points) 11-
1 2) Contact (2 Active Points) 11-
1 3) Contact (2 Active Points) 11-
5 4) Contact (6 Active Points) 15-
4 5) Contact: Detective Simon Queen. Police Liason (Contact has access to major institutions, Contact has significant Contacts of his own, Contact has useful Skills or resources) (5 Active Points) 11-
Perks Cost: 22


Total Character Cost: 275

Pts. Disadvantage
25 Hunted: VIPER 11- (Mo Pow, NCI, Harshly Punish)
15 Psych. Lim.: Curiosity (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Psych. Lim.: Tenatious, never gives up (Very Common, Moderate)
15 Psych. Lim.: Journalistic Code (Common, Strong)
15 Hunted: Pulse 8- (Mo Pow, Harshly Punish)
15 Soc. Lim.: Secret ID (Frequently, Major)
Disadvantage Points: 100
Base Points: 175
Experience Required: 0
Total Experience Available: 0
Experience Unspent: 0

[Alibear]

I would allow that EC as it stands.

[Vestnik]

Can DEX and SPD be Nonpersistent?

[DrunkonDUty]

Well I feel I should back down a bit from my previously stated: "don't allow it!" POV. The case I mentioned was an abuse but I must agree with those of you who've pointed out that it's actually quite reasonable to do at times. The point about the advantages coming with a set of appropriate disadvantages is a very good one.

The point about the stats being extra drainable is a good one, but I use drains so rarely. How about other folks: do you use drains much?

[Alibear]

Well, I don't use 'em normally that much but I do make a point of ensuring that disads and lims come into play.

One character had only in Hero ID for his different armours which would teleport on or off him when he wanted.

VIPER waited until he teleported out of one set of armour, and then before the other could be telported on to him, the activated a teleport suppress field.

You shoulda saw his face when he realised what happened. :sneaky:

[JmOz]

Can DEX and SPD be Nonpersistent?

Yes, and it is actualy kind of undervalued. Realise that with your speed down you will have to wait for the next time your curremt (the much lower) speed comes up to recover, and you will be at 1/2 your current dcv, calculated based on Dex

[Titanhoss]

I find that it's fairly reasonable to have some stats in an EC if it meets a few criteria.
a) it must have a solid theme (Cybernetics, werewolf powers, Kryptonian) that folks would know the inherent weaknesses when planning to take on the character... (Hey, I got some Kryptonite on the black market, we can go ahead with our plans against Sups now)
b) It is available on both sides of the divide... If the hero is gonna get a big bang for the point buck, they can't bitch if their opponents do too.

Titanhoss

[Vulcan]

That was our old GM's bylaw for character creation.

"Guys, you can mak your characters as reasonable or as munckin as you like. But remember, whatever you guys do with your PC's, I get to do with the NPC's... and Mechanon has a lot more points than you do." :eek:

We made a point of keeping things reasonable.

[neogeo69]

Meh, I certainly don't see anything special in Mongoose to allow for SPD and DEX in the EC. It's just another player using concept to try to bargain for more powers within the point allotment. As the previous poster said, if PC's really want to play that way, so can GM's and NPC's have a lot more points.