Guiding Philosophy #7

[buzz]

7. If there's a choice between what's "realistic" and what's fun, choose what's fun.

Please. :)

[GloryFox]

Fun is soooooo relative. Most of what my players want is very realistic with room for PULP hero style action, Comic Book compatibility, Fantasy Spells making, and Star Gazing opportunities. The 5th ed as is, is flexible enough already to encompass both fun and realistic.

[buzz]

Fun is soooooo relative.
That's why you playtest (and survey). If a "realistic" rule is tripping people up during actual play, you need to ditch the rule.

E.g., I would cite all of the acceleration/deceleration mechanics as stuff that exists for no other reason than "realism," despite being confusing, complex, and rarely used (IME).

[nexus]

For some "realism" IS fun so yes, it's relative. Personally, I've seen the acceleration and deceleration rules used quite a bit (I use them myself). I'm all for the idea of adjustable level of detail for different settings but generally, it's easier for players to have a "realistic" rule and drop it than invent one whole cloth if the want it. So note such things are optional. I rarely use Bleeding even in Heroic games but I don't think it should be dropped because many people do use it.

[Killer Shrike]

I've always used the accel/decel rules. They are easy to use, and make sense. The fact is, everything you could cite as "too real and not fun", others can say "what do you mean? we like that just fine" and vice versa.

Although, I think it would be valid to request that the game take the approach of increasing the places where high and low realism options are presented as such and configured as desired to support different styles of play.

[Vondy]

Fun is soooooo relative. Most of what my players want is very realistic with room for PULP hero style action, Comic Book compatibility, Fantasy Spells making, and Star Gazing opportunities. The 5th ed as is, is flexible enough already to encompass both fun and realistic.


Translation in Haiku:

I want it
I want it
I want it all... :help:

[Kdansky]

Obviously fun is hard to clarify, but sometimes it's easy:

Edge / Hero Points / ....
They are *very* unrealistic. But a lot of fun to most people (and you can easily cut them from the system if they are not totally central, and I don't think they will be, because this is HERO, and not Exalted). That's something that should be looked at.

People taking swordhits and don't dieing instantly: Fun, but unrealistic. The "first hit kills my PC" crowd is really tiny. Mostly because they keep dieing. hoho, joke. :/

[buzz]

I've always used the accel/decel rules. They are easy to use, and make sense.
They don't make sense. As-written, you can't both accelerate and decelerate in the same phase. Ergo, even when walking, a PC who starts moving on their phase will end their phase in motion, i.e., with momentum. Technically, a PC can't walk from point A to stop at point B. They are technically moving until their next phase comes up, which will allow them to decelerate.

I've asked Steve about this on the Rules Questions forum, and his basic answer was, "Yeah, ignore that bit; it doesn't make sense." The Ultimate Speedster even has a paragraph that literally says "Don't use these rules unless it's really important, as they're really complicated."

[buzz]

For some "realism" IS fun so yes, it's relative.
My question then is: How many of these people are there? Are they a big part of HERO's fanbase? A big part of the potential fanbase HERO hopes to attract with the new MMORPG? A big part of the fanbase made up of long-timers like me who've pretty much stopped playing HERO?

Obviously, answering this will require research.

All I can say is that a) I am not one of these people, and b) I think the hyper-realism creep HERO has seen over the last few editions is detrimental to the game, both from a play enjoyment perspective and a financial longevity perspective. HERO, IMO, does not need to be "The Ultimate Gamer's Phonebook" in order to be enjoyable.

But, I'm just one person. I'm just making my opinion heard.

[CourtFool]

If there's a choice between what's "realistic" and what's fun, choose what's fun.

I agree, but yes, it is very subjective. Steve should only use my definition of ‘fun’ for making these decisions.

[dsatow]

I think the ultimate guiding philosophy should be how to get new people hooked on HERO.

Reason: A fan will buy the book. A stranger will not.

[Sean Waters]

My question then is: How many of these people are there? Are they a big part of HERO's fanbase? A big part of the potential fanbase HERO hopes to attract with the new MMORPG? A big part of the fanbase made up of long-timers like me who've pretty much stopped playing HERO?

Obviously, answering this will require research.

All I can say is that a) I am not one of these people, and b) I think the hyper-realism creep HERO has seen over the last few editions is detrimental to the game, both from a play enjoyment perspective and a financial longevity perspective. HERO, IMO, does not need to be "The Ultimate Gamer's Phonebook" in order to be enjoyable.

But, I'm just one person. I'm just making my opinion heard.

Of course, if we present Hero as a smorgasbord of rules that you can pick and choose from we can satisfy everybody. Apart, you know, from the discipline freaks.

[Thia Halmades]

Realism and solid world physics that allow stronger moments of "OMG DID HE JUST DO THAT?!" is fun for me; so I need a strong foundation of realism with the INTENT in my design to shatter it from time to time. And yes, I consider people waving their hands around and generating effects "realistic" for my setting. ;) But that's a whole nother discussion.

[Killer Shrike]

They don't make sense. As-written, you can't both accelerate and decelerate in the same phase. Ergo, even when walking, a PC who starts moving on their phase will end their phase in motion, i.e., with momentum. Technically, a PC can't walk from point A to stop at point B. They are technically moving until their next phase comes up, which will allow them to decelerate.

The main rule book allows someone to do this. Its in the first paragraph under Accel / Decel.

[Sean Waters]

We could form a working group to decide what is 'fun'.

[Savinien]

That doesn't sound like fun.

[buzz]

The main rule book allows someone to do this. Its in the first paragraph under Accel / Decel.
Ah, the "unless the GM rules otherwise" bit. I'd forgotten about that. It'd be nice if the GM didn't need to rule otherwise, though...

Still, point taken.

[Chris Goodwin]

We could form a working group to decide what is 'fun'.

The Committee for the Determination of Fun. I like it.

[CourtFool]

Did you do anything fun today? Did you try to do anything fun today?

[Chris Goodwin]

Fun is mandatory. All those who are found to be not having fun will be beaten until fun is being had.

[CourtFool]

Is this the definition of fundamentalism?

[aylwin13]

Fun is mandatory. All those who are found to be not having fun will be beaten until fun is being had.I'm at work, not having fun. :(

Please let the beatings commence. :doi: