Core Components of the Hero System

[Half Baked]

In the discussions about the 6th Edition I have seen a lot of sentences starting something like:

XYZ is a core part of the Hero System.

I thought it might be useful to have a separate discussion about what people consider the core component to the Hero System and why. In the interests of really getting the core of the core components it would probably be useful if contributors focused on just one each.

I'll start :)

My core component of the Hero System are the Powers. I first discovered the system in the late 80's and was bowled over by a system where you could construct your own powers with wonderful detail. I had already experienced a non-level based system with GURPS that introduced advantages and disadvantages. However, I had found the spell system based on skills limiting and gave magic the GURPS flavour. The Hero System seemed awesome and I had finally discovered a system where it could be used to give magic, or any other power, the flavour I wanted.

Hero System powers were both elegant and flexible and I loved it.

The rest of the Hero System I could take or leave as it offered very little that were not available with other role playing games on the market.

[Thia Halmades]

The core of the system to me is "power design." Sure, I'd love to see new canon editions of things like pistols and long bows, yeah. But the "core" of, say, a Holy Ice Cream Cone of Smiting, shouldn't change. It's a compound power with advantages & limitations. The core of that language should really not be changed.

[Opal]

The core of the Hero system is the idea of an effects-based, point build system, in which you pay points for a generic mechanical effect to model the 'special effect' concept you have in mind for any ability that makes your character better, and recieve or save points for modeling anything that makes your ability or character less effective.

+5 pts generally aproximately doubles the 'special effect power' of something, but only increments the mechanical power in a linear fashion. For +5 pts, your Energy Blast is twice as many volts or newton or rads or whatever - but does +1d.

Defenses are generally half as expensive as attacks.

The resolution mechanic is 3d6, roll low.

Incrementing your ability to pass a resolution check costs between 1 and 10 points depending on how broadly the increment aplies.

The core of the combat system is the SPD Chart.

Normal human abilities start at 10. +5 'doubles' in the f/x sense.

Abilities that don't start at 10 are figured from abilities that do.

Anything you can't or won't do that a default character in the campaign could is a disadvantage that you get points for.
Anything you can do that a default character couldn't costs points.



Skills feel very much 'just stuck on' to the system. I'd say the skill system could be scrapped and replaced without touching the 'core' of the game. But, if we wanted to consider it:

Skills generally cost 3 points for an INT or EGO roll, and increment for +2 pts. There are a large, somewhat overlapping, but supposedly finite number of such skills.
Narrower or less important skills cost 1 pt for 8-, 2 for 11-, or 3 for a stat roll, and increment for +1 pt. There is an undefined number of such skills. How narrowly or broadly such a skill is defined affects the results of a successful resolution check, not the cost of the skill.

[nexus]

The Power Design System

The Speed Chart

Hex maps :hex:

[Tonio]

I'd say the core of the HERO System lies not in the minutiae (roll low vs roll high, Figureds vs no Figureds, etc.), but rather in the concept of building "stuff" (be they characters, objects, or effects) from basic, atomic building blocks which describe only the mechanical aspects, while leaving the aesthetic aspects to be defined, free-form, by the player. Yeah, sort of like what Thia said, only exapanded to cover just about everything, not just power creation.

This is what I find so attractive in the HERO System. Sure, I love the SPD Chart, or more specifically, how HERO handles characters who act more often than others. (I absotively hated how in D&D if you got extra attacks, you just rolled the lot when it was your turn... what, they happened to fast that nothing happened between them?!) But while I would hate seeing it gone, I would probably drop the game wholesale if the mechanics-building-block concept were abandoned.

[McCoy]

STUN & BODY
the Speed chart

[Chris Goodwin]

There's not a line somewhere, beyond which point this is not Hero System. Hero System is a lot of things, all working together. You can take out one or two of them and still have Hero System, but it's possible to take out too many.

For instance:

The stat block
The SPD chart
OCV vs. DCV
Killing vs. Normal damage
"Count the BODY"
BODY vs. STUN
Physical vs. Energy
5 points per d6
Advantages and Limitations denominated in 1/4s
9 + CHA/5
8-, 11-, 14-
Buildable Disadvantages denominated in multiples of 5

To me, all of these things together make the Hero System. You could take out two, maybe three, and it would still be Hero. There's not any one of these you couldn't lose and have it not still be Hero.

[Toadmaster]

What chris Said minus the you can take out any 2 of them. :D

HERO is a nice balance between stats, powers and skills, I like the fact that you can effectively build a character by focusing on one of these areas. You can build your brick or speedster with innate stats, (lots of str, or dex / speed as appropriate) or you could do it through powers, autofire attacks and tons of movement for the speedster, power armor for the brick. Similarly you can build the uber scientist through the purchase of lots of Int and skill levels or you can use skill modifiers to make high levels cheaper, or you can build a brain in a jar helmet full of skills in a multipower.

There is no right or wrong way, there might be a few best point efficient ways to do it, but any concept can be effectively built.

[CleverName]

The core?

5 pts = 1d6

[Lord Mhoram]

Core components to me:

Reasoning from Effect
Speed Chart
Universality
5pt = 1d6
Def is always cheaper than offense
Large number of characteristics
3d6 roll low for combat and skill checks.
Advantages/Lims to modifiy base abilities.

[McCoy]

Def is always cheaper than offense
That was largely kneecapped by not allowing most defenses into elemental controls.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Core axioms to me (if one of these went away, I would no longer consider the resulting game to be HERO):

Reasoning From Effect
The concept of SPD
BODY vs. STUN
Killing Damage vs. Normal Damage
OCV vs. DCV
Combat Maneuvers that modify CVs and effects
Character abilities purchased with points

[Hopscotch]

There has been great discussion over what elements are the "essence of Hero." I think that we could all agree that the one, overarching principal is that it is MODULAR. We all take or leave whatever rules we want and the game is still recognizable as Hero. THAT is the heart and soul of the game we love.

By mixing and matching the different rules and systems, a gaming group can brew up whatever genre and feel they want.

Sure, the basic 3d6 skill/combat check mechanic is likely the heart of the system, and the idea of paying points based on effectiveness is likely its soul, but beyond that almost anything goes. What is more, just about any of us would recognize and even accept, anyone else's game as Hero, even if there is disagreement over the choices that have been made. Many other role-playing games do not have that modular nature built into the core of the system.

It is that nature that makes hero different from most other games. And those games that do have that mix and match built in, IMHO, borrowed it from here.

[Lord Mhoram]

That was largely kneecapped by not allowing most defenses into elemental controls.

Yeah, well, I run 3rd edition style for what I allow in ECs. :)

[GamePhil]

Well, I'm a bit of an aberation, here, but the only thing to me that is core to Hero is reasoning from effect. To me pretty much anything else is optional.

That's not to say I don't like other elements of the system, I surely do. That's just the only single thing that the removal of would automatically drive me off, and the only thing that would make it truly unrecognizable to me if it were to be changed.

[steamteck]

Core components to me:

Reasoning from Effect
Speed Chart
Universality
5pt = 1d6
Def is always cheaper than offense
Large number of characteristics
3d6 roll low for combat and skill checks.
Advantages/Lims to modifiy base abilities.


That's pretty good. I can't come up with really better without going less basic. I could leave the speed chart if i had to though and expand the characteristics comment. to the classic configuration and interaction its always had

[Lord Mhoram]

and expand the characteristics comment. to the classic configuration and interaction its always had

I felt that way, but after reading some on the characteristics thread, and thinking about it, I realized while I prefer to play with figured characteristics (and plan on doing so), if the game didn't have figured characteristics I wouldn't mind too much. And if COM went away, I could handle that, or if PD and ED were folded together at 2 pts and called DEF with the ability to buy it with a -1 lim for one or the other, I could handle that.

But I want at least 10 characteristic, if not the whole bundle. I hate game with 3 of them, and even D&D at 6 seems a little simplistic. I like for the greater definition of character that comes from having 14 characteristics.

[steamteck]

I felt that way, but after reading some on the characteristics thread, and thinking about it, I realized while I prefer to play with figured characteristics (and plan on doing so), if the game didn't have figured characteristics I wouldn't mind too much. And if COM went away, I could handle that, or if PD and ED were folded together at 2 pts and called DEF with the ability to buy it with a -1 lim for one or the other, I could handle that.

.

I could handle it but my gameplay would not be improved but made harder . I suppose its not absolutely core but its HERO to me.

[nexus]

I felt that way, but after reading some on the characteristics thread, and thinking about it, I realized while I prefer to play with figured characteristics (and plan on doing so), if the game didn't have figured characteristics I wouldn't mind too much. And if COM went away, I could handle that, or if PD and ED were folded together at 2 pts and called DEF with the ability to buy it with a -1 lim for one or the other, I could handle that.


I could handle those. It would be a PIA and feel less like "Hero" but I could handle it.

[CourtFool]

[post edited by poster to remove offensive posting]

…but that is just what I think.

[Killer Shrike]

Building a character by defining abilities / buying mechanics and the general Inversion of Control philosophy (ie, characters express their mechanics, not the other way around).

Finely grained tactically flexible (mostly) internally consistent combat engine.

Stuff to make the two work together and still allow roleplaying.

Thats pretty much the core for me.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Hero has two "cores".

One is its core philosophy: Reasoning from Effect. Essentially the rules are a toolkit designed so that any given player can design any type of character they desire. Of all things in Hero, this one thing should not change. There can be no compromise on this, or the game will cease to be HERO.

The secondary or "outer" core are its core rules/mechanics. Certain gameplay features that make Hero feel like Hero. IMO those core mechanics are:

The Characteristics. Both Primary and Figured. The amount and type of characteristics used in Hero provides the detail necessary for designing a character for any genre. Certainly, some characteristics are far less used in some genres than in others, and some characteristics that are equally useful in all genres, but this is true of any game system. As far as the figured characteristics are concerned, I believe they are a part of this core mechanic. Certainly one could divorce them from the Primary characteristics and make them stand alone (thus Primary) characteristics or force the players to purchase them as Talents or Powers. In the end they will still exist and the only thing that would be eliminated is the (incredibly simple) math in determining the characteristics initial value. In addition, imagine the chaos of inexperienced players forgettting to purchase Physical Defense or Recovery. Not pretty.

Combat Value. The concept of OCV vs DCV is absolutely brilliant. I especially like DCV. It represents the fact that combatants don't just stand there, waiting to be hit. Combat is extremely dynamic, with participants (and by-standers) moving around, ducking behind cover. Very few RPG's handle this situation properly. IMO, Hero handles it perfectly. To change this aspect of the combat system would do a great injustice to the game and its players. I'm also fairly enamored with the concept of ECV.

The Speed Chart. Anyone who recognizes me on these boards probably is well aware of how much I love the Speed Chart. When I first began to look at various RPG's to find the One True Game, how the game handles the difference in speed between various combatants was one of my biggest criteria. Once I had wrapped my mind around the Speed Chart and how it functioned, I immediately adopted Hero as my primary game system and haven't looked back since. I believe that Hero is one of a very short list of RPG's that properly handles the difference between fast and slow combatants. Sure, most RPG's allow for more attacks per round, but with very few exceptions, almost all of these game systems are extraordinarily vague on when the combatants get these extra actions. I will admit that the Speed Chart has one glaring flaw; predictability. The fact that combatants go on the same segments, every turn (unless they "hold" or lower their speed) makes the Speed Chart open to manipulation by tactically-minded gamers, but I have far less a problem with this aspect of the mechanic than others on these message boards.

Damage Mechanics. Body and Stun. Normal Damage and Killing Damage. Hit Locations and Critical Hits. Impairing and Disabling. The way Hero combat handles damage is another huge reason that Hero is my main game system. I like the fact that its very difficult, but still possible to kill someone with a single fist punch. I like the fact that a knife is an actual threat to an unarmored human, no matter his/her "level of experience". I like the fact that Hero actually has rules and guidelines for trauma based on Hit Location. (I recall having to create my own hit location charts for a vast majority of the RPG's I've played) I like the fact that you can K.O. an enemy without killing them, or kill them without knocking them out first. Again, Hero is on the short list of games that can simulate the Hero fighting against overwhelming odds, and dying on his feet surrounded by the corpses of his enemies (Positive Stun, negative Body)

Rolling 3D6. The Bell Curve. It goes a long way toward giving Hero its own unique feel. A lot of gamers new to Hero are put off by this mechanic and the math-impaired among them won't understand the odds behind this specific mechanic, but over the years I've come to the conclusion that the 3D6 bell-curve is perfect for Hero. The chances of getting an "absolute" roll on either end of the spectum is quite low, unlike D10 or D20 mechanics, where your chances of rolling High or Low is the same. This Bell Curve is central to the Hero System skill resolution. It makes a gain of +1 meaningful, where in many RPG's a +1 gain is quite small. In Hero +3 can swing the odds considerably, where in a game based on D20 it is a mere +15% linear add. For Hero to remain Hero, 3D6 must stay. (its also a hell of a lot easier to find D6 dice than it is to find D20's. Esp if you live in a small community with no comic book stores like where I grew up)

Those are the "core" mechanics as far as I'm concerned. There are a lot of other things about HERO I think should remain the same, but I wouldn't call them core concepts. I just really like Hero the way it is. As I see it, its ultimately flexible now. I can do pretty much what i want with it. Significant changes are likely only to limit/reduce that flexibility and the system would be the lesser for it.

All in my humble opinion of course.