Massively Article On Champions Online

[Steve Long]

Here's an online article that contains much of the same information as the Game Informer article, for those who haven't seen GI yet:

http://www.massively.com/2008/02/22/champions-online-and-cryptic-studios-information-bonanza/

[SAVeira]

Thanks, Steve, I have not been able to find that mag anywhere.

[Steve Long]

The latest GI only shipped to distributors (and to subscribers) last Friday, so it may not be available at all newstands just yet.

[Pattern Ghost]

Massively needs fact checkers, though.

[kridenow]

Thanks for the link.

I'm not exactly enthousiastic over this :
"Cryptic has also taken notice of what makes players in other MMOs very happy. One decision made by the team is the inclusion of loot, which we're happy to see is being designed into the game from the ground up"

MMOGs relying on "loot" for character development tend to be a pain for casual gamers.
City of Heroes has a sort of "loot" system (the invention system, coming with various elements (recipes and salvage) you get randomly from defeated foes) but since it came way after the game release, it's entirely optionnal and you can ignore it completely

[Blue]

CoH has loot. They're called Enhancements and Inspirations. Now they have Salvage as well, which is no big deal to me except it's made it easier to do the low to mid levels when you find something valuable to sell and can finance new enhancements.

[Pattern Ghost]

A loot system is fine as long as anyone can find any of the loot. You only get exclusion when the loot drops from encounters that some part of the player base doesn't have access to, classic example being a casual who doesn't raid not being able to get raid loot.

[kridenow]

CoH has loot. They're called Enhancements and Inspirations. Now they have Salvage as well, which is no big deal to me except it's made it easier to do the low to mid levels when you find something valuable to sell and can finance new enhancements.

Save you can buy both from NPCs. You're not dependent on drops to upgrade your character. The fact you're selling enhancement you can't use is equivalent to getting more influence, nothing more. You don't need to do missions related to your origin to have the right to improve your powers. You just go buy what you need.
Only minor inspirations are sold but they are unrelated to your character development, they are consumed when you use them.
Now, loot based systems rarely sell you the stuff you get as a drop from NPCs. CoH sells you all the enhancements you need.

Salvage and recipe, you can ignore them totally and still have a functionning character, since the game was designed without the invention feature.

[CorPse]

Thanks, Steve, I have not been able to find that mag anywhere.

The article has a very slick presentation of Champs Online... worth a gander when it hits newsstands.

[Dr. Confoundo]

A loot system is fine as long as anyone can find any of the loot. You only get exclusion when the loot drops from encounters that some part of the player base doesn't have access to, classic example being a casual who doesn't raid not being able to get raid loot.

WoW has really been working hard to try and rectify this problem. Currently (post Burning Crusade), there are at least four ways to get really good loot: Raiding, PvP, Crafting, Factions.

I don't do much raiding, but if I want to put in a couple hours a week doing PvP, I can buy a really nice item in a couple weeks. Similarly, if I don't want to do PvP or raid, I can build some great items for me to wear. Or if I don't feel like crafting, I can kill a bunch of the same monsters over and over again (or do repeatable quests), and I will eventually get access to high-end gear.

If you are willing to do all four, you can, but noone is left out if they don't want to be.

[Steve Long]

WoW has really been working hard to try and rectify this problem. Currently (post Burning Crusade), there are at least four ways to get really good loot: Raiding, PvP, Crafting, Factions.

I would argue that this is not true... but this is definitely not the place to debate the good or bad points of WoW. I will agree as a general matter that BC rectified some problems... but others it left totally untouched. ;)

Catch me at a con sometime if you want to hear me rant about this. Now if only Blizzard would give me a fat consulting contract to explain it all to them. Heck, they can pay me in lootz! :)

[Pattern Ghost]

WoW has really been working hard to try and rectify this problem. Currently (post Burning Crusade), there are at least four ways to get really good loot: Raiding, PvP, Crafting, Factions.

I don't do much raiding, but if I want to put in a couple hours a week doing PvP, I can buy a really nice item in a couple weeks. Similarly, if I don't want to do PvP or raid, I can build some great items for me to wear. Or if I don't feel like crafting, I can kill a bunch of the same monsters over and over again (or do repeatable quests), and I will eventually get access to high-end gear.

If you are willing to do all four, you can, but noone is left out if they don't want to be.

You forgot to mention Badge of Justice rewards.

Have you seen the stuff coming out in 2.4? It's obscenely good, just takes a ton of badges. I'll need to collect 563 Badges for my healing pally alt to gear up. But, since we're only starting SSC, that'd put my pally ALT ahead of the rest of the raid group gear-wise.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about WoW, I was talking in general.

In general, the loot shouldn't be made exclusive. Just as WoW has learned, so should go COMMO.

[Pattern Ghost]

Heck, here's the link to the new badge loot:

http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=25046#sells:0+10+1

A little OT, but we have at least two WoW players here it seems. =)

[Steve Long]

I'll need to collect 563 Badges for my healing pally alt to gear up.

I'll need about 500 for my mage. :(

It wouldn't be so bad if I could earn them solo. This crap-ass endgame design that forces me to group with people just annoys the hell out of me.

:: puts down the Rant Stick and backs off before he totally derails the thread:: ;)

[archermoo]

I'll need about 500 for my mage. :(

It wouldn't be so bad if I could earn them solo. This crap-ass endgame design that forces me to group with people just annoys the hell out of me.

:: puts down the Rant Stick and backs off before he totally derails the thread:: ;)

Too late. :D

Gotta agree with you on the whole "why am I forced to group" thing. And I haven't even gotten there yet. My main is still 65th, and still able to solo quite happily. :)

[CorPse]

I'll need about 500 for my mage. :(

It wouldn't be so bad if I could earn them solo. This crap-ass endgame design that forces me to group with people just annoys the hell out of me.

:: puts down the Rant Stick and backs off before he totally derails the thread:: ;)

Amused by the ranting Steve... :eg:

[GreyGuardian]

Biggest problem with WoW compared to CoH - It takes too long at the high levels to go and do things. With CoH I can log in, complete a mission, and deal with drops (dump in base storage or sell) and be done in 30 minutes. About that fast even when I get in a group probably because travelling takes a lot less time in CoH.

[Heroic Avatar]

Thanks for the link Steve, and lets not go into the WoW rant shall we?

Although are you going to any cons in the DC area? I would love to hear your rant!

And force you to give me a signed copy of the Hero Core Rules...:thumbup:

[Dr. Confoundo]

I would argue that this is not true... but this is definitely not the place to debate the good or bad points of WoW. I will agree as a general matter that BC rectified some problems... but others it left totally untouched. ;)

Well, I was only explaining it to show that there are other possibilities to fix the loot problem often found in MMOs*. If COMMO has loot, I expect there'll be plenty of ways to get it rather than just raiding Destruga. I can definitely see grinding PRIMUS and UNTIL faction to get epic gear, or maxing out my Inventing or Magic skills to craft purple loot.


*All of those options are available in post-BC WoW - that does not mean they are all of equal value.

[Pattern Ghost]

I'll need about 500 for my mage. :(

It wouldn't be so bad if I could earn them solo. This crap-ass endgame design that forces me to group with people just annoys the hell out of me.

:: puts down the Rant Stick and backs off before he totally derails the thread:: ;)

I'm thinking at least the ring and the weapon for my mage. Not sure if the other stuff if worth breaking set bonuses on the crafted gear.

/end WoW derail

[Steve Long]

Although are you going to any cons in the DC area? I would love to hear your rant!

Right now I haven't been invited to any DC area cons. Other than the big summer cons, and a couple of local ones here in NC, the only one I'm slated to attend this year is EconoCon in New Hampshire in mid-April. But if there's a con in DC that needs a guest I'm always willing to consider driving up. ;)

[CorPse]

Right now I haven't been invited to any DC area cons. Other than the big summer cons, and a couple of local ones here in NC, the only one I'm slated to attend this year is EconoCon in New Hampshire in mid-April. But if there's a con in DC that needs a guest I'm always willing to consider driving up. ;)

Any more word about the Con in western Washington (State)? robertep and I were considering a drive out to see you.

[Spence]

I'll need about 500 for my mage. :(

It wouldn't be so bad if I could earn them solo. This crap-ass endgame design that forces me to group with people just annoys the hell out of me.

:: puts down the Rant Stick and backs off before he totally derails the thread:: ;)

Qwasi getting back on topic....

Any idea if Champ Online will allow solo gaming? Or better yet allow solo play where you can actually progress and have fun?

Just wondering ;)

[Dr. Confoundo]

Any idea if Champ Online will allow solo gaming? Or better yet allow solo play where you can actually progress and have fun?
I would assume so. You'll probably be required to team up for big fights (like Mechanon and Dr. Destroyer), but I'd surprised if there wasn't plenty of content for solo play.

[Rigel]

Any idea if Champ Online will allow solo gaming? Or better yet allow solo play where you can actually progress and have fun?

From the Massively article:
Let me be the one to warn all you weary superheroes reading this that if you should venture alone into the world of Champions Online, you'll be just fine. Solo play is a go, I repeat, friend's are irrelevant! Well, maybe not irrelevant, because super teams of up to five can join together to take on big challenges as well. It's pretty nice to see Jack Emmert quoted saying, "I think we're kind of passed the point of forced teaming."

I think solo-ers like myself will be quite happy.

[Steve Long]

Any more word about the Con in western Washington (State)? robertep and I were considering a drive out to see you.

They haven't ever gotten back in touch with me, unfortunately.

[Spence]

From the Massively article:


I think solo-ers like myself will be quite happy.

Well I am just stacking up the "duh" moments this week. Somehow I completely skipped that paragraph. :ugly:

[archermoo]

From the Massively article:


I think solo-ers like myself will be quite happy.

Wootski!

[shadowcat1313]

the magazine seems to have just hit the newstands recently, the Kroger I work at just had it on the shelf yesterday