New Disads: Plot Threads

[dsatow]

One of the problems I see running is that many characters have well defined hunteds as disadvantages. They will buy up a hunted to 14- and then be depressed when the hunted doesn't show up on a 14- scale. Add to this a party of 6 each with say 2 hunteds at 14-, every game will end up with an army of hunteds and the GM never gets to run his plot.

Now as a GM I could just ignore the hunteds and that's fine. But as a player, I will feel unsatisfied if I am the great super "Waco Man" and I am not being hunted by the ATF on a 14-. It never lets me as a player develop that thread on the character and disgusted I buy off the useless hunted.

My solution: Plot threads. These are like GM mystery disadvantages but unlike them, I know what the threads are. The GM can choose to exploit these disadvantages at anytime, changing them to other disadvantages as necessary.

Ex: I buy a 25 point plot thread(PT), "Powers came from a mysterious crashed UFO". The GM isn't forced into a time to execute the thread nor will this thread be used in a game at a convention. When the GM wants to execute, he comes up with a story line for the character. In this example, the UFO is a prison ship and the powers are for an intergalactic villain. As play continues, the 25 point plot thread is changed to 2 hunteds, one a intergalactic supervillain who wants his focus back and one an intergalactic bounty hunter who's reward is based on taking the powers from the super.

Another advantage to plot threads is GMs can use them as notes against the PC and PC continuity. GM A places a plot thread against the player (PT:"Father comes back into life of PC") but the campaign ends before the PT can be fulfilled. The next GM sees the PT and decides that the Father is actually a supervillain. This may not match what the original GM had in mind which could have been the Father was an older superhero(DNPC) out of his prime and meddling in Junior's affairs.

[Karmakaze]

My solution: Plot threads. These are like GM mystery disadvantages but unlike them, I know what the threads are. The GM can choose to exploit these disadvantages at anytime, changing them to other disadvantages as necessary.

Ex: I buy a 25 point plot thread(PT), "Powers came from a mysterious crashed UFO". The GM isn't forced into a time to execute the thread nor will this thread be used in a game at a convention. When the GM wants to execute, he comes up with a story line for the character. In this example, the UFO is a prison ship and the powers are for an intergalactic villain. As play continues, the 25 point plot thread is changed to 2 hunteds, one a intergalactic supervillain who wants his focus back and one an intergalactic bounty hunter who's reward is based on taking the powers from the super.

Have you ever run across a little indy game called With Great Power (http://www.incarnadinepress.com/)? It takes an extreme narrativist approach that does that.

[dsatow]

Nope, will take a look at it though. Thanks!

Just for reference:
I've played V&V, HERO, HeroClix, GURPS at least once.
I've browsed/read M&M, Heroes Unlimited.

[Karmakaze]

Nope, will take a look at it though. Thanks!

Just for reference:
I've played V&V, HERO, HeroClix, GURPS at least once.
I've browsed/read M&M, Heroes Unlimited.

I've only ever played it at conventions, where it was being run by one of the couple that created it. Don't feel bad about not being familiar with it. It's a way more extreme take on the plot threads idea than I think is right for HERO, but the execution is interesting enough to look at. Essentially, its a supers game, but rather than stats, each character has four "aspects", like "fire-based powers" or "cub reporter girlfriend" or "hunted by Doctor Destroyer", each representing a plot element you'd like to have come up in the course of the story arc. The conflict resolution system revolves around imperiling various attributes to move along the storyline.

When I first played it, I was struck that it felt like playing a game off of just the Disadvantages section of a character sheet. It had a lot of similarities with my thought process when I try to create subplots for my regular players by reading over the Disadvantages sections and seeing what I could make interact. There's a school of thought that says that when a player puts something on their character sheet, it's an implicit request to have that come up in gameplay at some point. From that perspective, every Disad is a "plot thread", and it's just a matter of opening up what qualifies. In another thread, they're talking about changing the name of Disadvantages to Complications for (partially) that reason.


ETA - you might want to take this to the Disadvantages thread.

[Vondy]

Its only been the past 3-5 years that I've heard players say things like "I took this disadvantage so you owe me a plot on it..." I what?! Character design and campaign have to be balanced. The character has to fit into the campaign, and with that in mind, the GM and player pretty much have to negotiate the character (and their disadvantages). Its a matter of cooperation and communication.

At the same time, as a GM, I try to rotate player subplots along with the main plot, with player subplots taking center stage or heavily impacting the main event on occassion. I do think about character's disadvantages (well, the villains know he's affected badly by compound x), but I don't feel bound by them, or as though I have some moral debt to the player to step on it in any given game. Its always a question of what works for the plot (GM) and subplot (Player) at hand.

As a result, we've never run hunteds (or several other things) with rolls (though we do note an agreed upon frequency), and all disadvantages are mutable in that they can morph into other disadvantages if the story dictates it. Also, as GM, if a disadvantage has run its course or become less intensive, and there isn't a logical replacement or mutation at that time, I require the player to buy it off (there's a legitimate, story oriented use of character points you almost never see).

It could be that my style has always been narrative-simulationist in bent and that I've always been interested in giving the characters stage time and plot threads, but I don't get the sense of entitlement that has emerged in the "I took a disadvantage and now you owe me" line (I'm not saying that's the OP's tone, but it is one I've seen on the boards a bit). It takes an immense amount of work to run an ongoing campaing, and the players wants (and character's disadvantages) should be used now and again, but GM's shouldn't let character sheets dictate anything to them.

For instance, the player took "Hunted X 14-" and then starts complaining that the hunted doesn't show up again... well, this isn't the your character is hunted by x campaign and there are other people here. This is a fundamental problem with having rolls and frequencies attached to disadvantages in the first place. Its also a problem with rolls for contacts. You blew your roll but I have the perfect way for that contact to help you, or "I don't care if you rolled a 3 on your Contact: CIA 14-, they don't know anything about the men who kidnapped aunt sally's cat..."

I agree plot threads are an interesting and potentially superior as a method of dealing with disadvantages, but only in that they come with a caveat: they are negotiated and work well with the overall campaign.

[Karmakaze]

At the same time, as a GM, I try to rotate player subplots along with the main plot, with player subplots taking center stage or heavily impacting the main event on occassion. I do think about character's disadvantages (well, the villains know he's affected badly by compound x), but I don't feel bound by them, or as though I have some moral debt to the player to step on it in any given game. Its always a question of what works for the plot (GM) and subplot (Player) at hand.

I never roll hunted's and DNPCs either. Rolling per session would be silly, as we have very short sessions due to everyone's work schedules. Rolling per plotline gets messy as well, because we usually have overlapping plots. I use the roll numbers as a general frequency. I'd be fine if hunteds and DNPCs had the same scale as psychlims and physlims, personally.

[Steve Long]

If you have an idea or suggestion for Disadvantages, please post it in the Disadvantages thread.

I'll leave this up for about a day in case you want to copy anything and post it where it should be posted, then this thread will be deleted.