X-plain the Rule of X?

[teh bunneh]

Pretty much what the title says... can someone explain, in simple terms for my poor dumb bunneh brain, what the Rule of X is and how to figure it? :doi:

[Hermit]

The rule of X is that if you are a 'mutant' you are automatically kewler than the other heroes who aren't. ;)

[teh bunneh]

::goes stabby on Hermit::

Anyone else, bub? :smoke:

[Certified]

The Rule of X means that as long as you don't show a Dude full Frontal in an 80's Movie you could get an R rating, please see Porkies and Revenge of the Nerds for details.

[Chris Goodwin]

It was a way back around the 3rd-4th edition days of determining an overall power level. There were different X values for attacks, defenses, and Other. Essentially, X was roughly the maximum allowable (Damage Class + SPD) or (DEF + DCV) value or something similar; it tried to work DC, SPD, and OCV into one value and DEF, DCV, and (maybe) Movement into another.

Made it whole cloth into Fuzion, AFAIK.

[Certified]

It was a way back around the 3rd-4th edition days of determining an overall power level. There were different X values for attacks, defenses, and Other. Essentially, X was roughly the maximum allowable (Damage Class + SPD) or (DEF + DCV) value or something similar; it tried to work DC, SPD, and OCV into one value and DEF, DCV, and (maybe) Movement into another.

Made it whole cloth into Fuzion, AFAIK.

You and your real answers... pfft..

[Hermit]

It was a way back around the 3rd-4th edition days of determining an overall power level. There were different X values for attacks, defenses, and Other. Essentially, X was roughly the maximum allowable (Damage Class + SPD) or (DEF + DCV) value or something similar; it tried to work DC, SPD, and OCV into one value and DEF, DCV, and (maybe) Movement into another.

Made it whole cloth into Fuzion, AFAIK.

Spoilsport :P

[Chris Goodwin]

Oh, I forgot something.

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled humor posts."

Happy? :p

[Lord Liaden]

Nowadays "Rule of X" is commonly used for any formula that attempts to create an objective measure of a HERO (particularly Champions) character's overall offensive and defensive capability, so you can keep them roughly equal and rank them compared to other characters. One such basic formula, explicitly called a "Rule of X," appears in the Champions genre book, sidebars pp. 131-33. A much more detailed calculation, the "Effectiveness Rating," is described in Digital Hero #3 (and there's a free spreadsheet for it here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1517161)). Then there's an online "Combat Rating" calculator created by our errant board colleague nyakki, derived from formulas in an old Adventurers Club, which you can find here (http://www.trimira.com/hero_stuff/combat_rating.html).

[Hermit]

Happy? :p

When I'm on the right pills...

[L. Marcus]

Oh, I forgot something.

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled humor posts."

Happy? :pYes, fairly so.

[Bloodstone]

I find Rule of X to be a very rough guideline that tends to be pretty meaningless once actual play begins...

[braincraft]

The Rule of X is that Wolverine must be on the cover of any given issue of any given comic put out on any given month.

[Bloodstone]

Not true!

[braincraft]

I can swear I see him in the pattern of flames behind them. Or it's just the Virgon Mary, I dunno.

[Lord Liaden]

Oh, no! The Virgons are invading! :eek:

[gojira]

So, does anyone have one or more Rules of X that they use and would like to share?

I'm toying around with 2*SPD + DC'S = 20.

Sure some folks don't like Rule of X but it does kind of help set campaign guidelines, I think.

[Lord Liaden]

Here's a thread that presents several variants, although the discussion later bogs down over details of the Effectiveness Rating: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469

[Trebuchet]

So, does anyone have one or more Rules of X that they use and would like to share?

I'm toying around with 2*SPD + DC'S = 20.

Sure some folks don't like Rule of X but it does kind of help set campaign guidelines, I think.You must be looking at running a lower power campaign. We use SPD + DC <= 20 and it seems to work pretty well for a mainstream "Silver Age" Champions campaign. It's only a guideline; but no one has exceeded the number even after 15 years.

[gojira]

You must be looking at running a lower power campaign. We use SPD + DC <= 20 and it seems to work pretty well for a mainstream "Silver Age" Champions campaign. It's only a guideline; but no one has exceeded the number even after 15 years.

I use SPD * 2 because I want about + 2 DC for each drop in speed.

So at 4 SPD, I get 12 DCs, about a 60 points attack. This is an attack for the slow brick. I don't count Haymaker, btw, but I do count all other sources of DCs. If you are counting Haymaker, then at SPD 4 we are actually the same.

(I just find the -4 DCs to everything to account for Haymaker to be annoying, so I just look at the DCs on the character, and lower the allowed DCs by 4.)

Next at 5 SPD, there's 10 DCs, about a 50 point attack.

Then at 6 SDP a character can have 8 DCs, about a 40 point attack. At this level I expect the character to be using Find Weakness and other similar enhancements.

I could see moving those up a tad. 2*SPD + DCs = 22 bumps all those DCs up by 2, so the Brick gets 14 DCs before haymaker, and the speedy guy can take up to 10 DCs with his attacks (which likely are boosted by FW or NND or similar means). But as you say it depends on the campaign levels and tone.

[Trebuchet]

I use SPD * 2 because I want about + 2 DC for each drop in speed.

So at 4 SPD, I get 12 DCs, about a 60 points attack. This is an attack for the slow brick. I don't count Haymaker, btw, but I do count all other sources of DCs. If you are counting Haymaker, then at SPD 4 we are actually the same.

(I just find the -4 DCs to everything to account for Haymaker to be annoying, so I just look at the DCs on the character, and lower the allowed DCs by 4.)

Next at 5 SPD, there's 10 DCs, about a 50 point attack.

Then at 6 SDP a character can have 8 DCs, about a 40 point attack. At this level I expect the character to be using Find Weakness and other similar enhancements.

I could see moving those up a tad. 2*SPD + DCs = 22 bumps all those DCs up by 2, so the Brick gets 14 DCs before haymaker, and the speedy guy can take up to 10 DCs with his attacks (which likely are boosted by FW or NND or similar means). But as you say it depends on the campaign levels and tone.Our brick is SPD 4 and does 15d6 not including Haymaker. Our quasi-speester/MA is SPD 9 and does 10d6 with a Sacrifice Strike. Everyone else falls somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

We've been kicking around the idea of increasing the number to 22 or 24, but since nobody has hit the 20 yet there hasn't been any pressing reason to change it (and it's only a guideline anyway).

[BNakagawa]

My favorite rule of X is to calculate how many seconds it would take this PC to take out an average combatant.

You can just roll dice or you can do math.

On the flip side, you can calculate how many seconds your PC will survive against an average combatant, too.

[gojira]

Our brick is SPD 4 and does 15d6 not including Haymaker.

Yup, that's a pretty high powered game there. Just curious: what do you throw at these characters for enemies? Wouldn't they just chew through regular villains like Green Dragon and Pulsar?

(P.S. Also, how many character points? They feel like they might be up in the 450 range or a bit higher...)

[OzMike]

A rule of X I've used before for a high powered game was:

OCV + DCs + Active Defense/5 + Non-dodging DCV + 2*SPD = 60

What that means is a 30 DEX character with 6 SPD and no levels could have about 12D6 attacks and 30 PD/ED with 20 rPD/ED.

If you wanted to lower the 60 to say 50 then you could have a 23 DEX character with 5 SPD and 2 offensive levels and about 12D6 attacks and 20 PD/ED with 10 rPD/rED.

This rule of X worked really well to balance the characters, although one guy did go for a 3 SPD, 15 DEX, 100 STR Brick with no levels (or tricks even) but it was all in good fun. Gave me someone to pound on.

[Doc Democracy]

The best thing about Rule of X is that it is more flexible than fixed AP caps and yet still provides some way of limiting the power level of the characters relative to each other.

The problem with rule of X is what to include. Too many things and it gets really complicated, too few and you have to impose other forms of capping as well.

If you have a stable group then a Rule of X normally comes to the fore naturally that doesn't have to be written down explicitly.


Doc

[Silbeg]

The best thing about Rule of X is that it is more flexible than fixed AP caps and yet still provides some way of limiting the power level of the characters relative to each other.

The problem with rule of X is what to include. Too many things and it gets really complicated, too few and you have to impose other forms of capping as well.

If you have a stable group then a Rule of X normally comes to the fore naturally that doesn't have to be written down explicitly.


Doc


I have to agree with you on all of that, DD!

My group has played around with different formula, and never were really that happy with what we came up with.

I try to stay away from AP limits, because they can easily ban certain character builds. Generally, we try to follow the "if I can do more damage, I shouldn't hit as often" and the "if I am going to get hit a lot, I should have higher defenses".

We have basically decided not to decide on a specific formula. So, the burden falls on me.

[Bloodstone]

I find the players make a huge difference, even if the characters stats end up being pretty similar on paper.

If one player is thinking tactically and using all the options at their disposal, then chances are that player is going to appear a lot more powerful and effective than someone that just throws the same high damage attack over and over again until the bad guys fall down.

[Vondy]

Oh, no! The Virgons are invading! :eek:

So many quips, so little time.

[Vondy]

The Rule of X is highly variable.

[gojira]

Yeah, sometimes X = Y and then you know what that mean...

[Trebuchet]

Yup, that's a pretty high powered game there. Just curious: what do you throw at these characters for enemies? Wouldn't they just chew through regular villains like Green Dragon and Pulsar?Well, we whipped Eurostar once*; but it's not a fight I'd much care to repeat as we barely squeaked by. Our team, MidGuard, is the JLA/Avengers analogue in our campaign so we're supposed to be pretty tough. Characters like Green Dragon or Pulsar would generally be pretty easy to defeat. We had a scenario a couple of years ago where two characters, our brick Silhouette and fast MA Zl'f mentioned above, together beat five 250 point homegrown villains rather easily as the intro to a scenario (The bad guys were imports from another lower-powered campaign and were not designed to fight MidGuard). We mostly use homegrown villains or beefed-up versions of CKC/VVV badguys with the serial numbers filed off. :D


(P.S. Also, how many character points? They feel like they might be up in the 450 range or a bit higher...)Highest point character right now is Zl'f having 443 points including unspent XP; most of the team is in the 400-420 range. Our campaign has been running, on and off, since 1993.


* http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6990