Paizo's Pathfinder RPG (D&D 3.75)

[Lord Mhoram]

Paizo has decided to not pursue (at this time) D&D 4th edition, but instead is making their own version of an updated D&D 3.5 - the Pathfinder RPG. It is a completely open playtest - you can download the PDF for the alpha for free. They want feedback on their forums.

Announcement here: http://paizo.com/

Download here (scroll to the bottom) : http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG


Years ago when pondering the OGL, and when WotC finally released the full ruleset as Open Content, I wondered that whenever they went to a 4th edition D&D, if any of the 3rd party publishers would keep alive 3.x. Well Piazo is.

There is a segment of D&D players that don't plan to move to 4th, or that feel the flaws in 3.x are small enough they don't want to spend the money. So here is Paizo catering to that customer base.

I am really interested to see how all this falls out. :)

[Lord Fyre]

The Pathfinder adventures are well written and fun! :thumbup:

However, to really make them AWESOME we need to get them to convert to Fantasy Hero! :angel:

[CourtFool]

I think this is a pretty crafty move. Paizo is making money selling supplements. Their target audience is not all gamers…just the subset that buy supplements. They can lean on this until (if) the majority of people switch over to 4e. Even if a lot of people jump into 4e with both feet, they can still get use out of a supplement provided they have not sold all of their 3.5 stuff.

In addition, they pick up a lot of people that are really angry about 4e.

They slip in one extra book to their line up (PRPG) and then keep cranking out Pathfinder until (if) enough people switch over to 4e and (again if) sales start to slump, they switch to 4e. Or they break off a large enough chunk of disgruntled gamers to keep staying 3.5 profitable.

I think they are in a unique position to do this, compared to say WotC, because they are not looking to duplicate the sales of the core books (PH, DMG, MM) but just the sales of the supplements.

[Lord Mhoram]

Yep.

And they are Necromancer's publisher, who is diving into 4th with both feet, and so they will see the sales data of 4th ed supplements.

I thought it was really interesting.

Plus I always like to see new game stuff, even if it is just another "D&D variant" like Arcana Unearthed or Iron Heroes.

The fact that it is a completely open playtest - no Non disclosure agreements - things being done on the forum. That is also really pretty cool.

[CourtFool]

More power to ‘em. I really enjoyed their first Pathfinder series, Rise of the Runelords. I have found that it takes me just as much time to read and digest their material (any published material really) than to just make up my own stuff. It just really did not seem worth it for me to continue my subscriptions to Pathfinder. I will most likely pick up the Guide to Kosova and the world book when it comes out.

[Killer Shrike]

The Pathfinder adventures are well written and fun! :thumbup:

However, to really make them AWESOME we need to get them to convert to Fantasy Hero! :angel:

{cough}

PathfinderHERO (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Pathfinder/PaizoPathfinder.aspx)

[Tim]

{cough}

PathfinderHERO (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Pathfinder/PaizoPathfinder.aspx)

Shrike, you need to get that cough looked at.

:p


Repped for the work.

[CourtFool]

Yeah, he follows me everywhere. At least he saves me all that time converting all the cool stuff I find so I don’t have to.

[Lord Fyre]

{cough}

PathfinderHERO (http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Pathfinder/PaizoPathfinder.aspx)

Well, since you have gone that far, you should add character write-ups for the four iconic characters. :P

(For those who have not looked at the Rise Of The Runelords series

Kyra - Human Female Cleric of Sarenrea
Merisiel - Elven Female Rogue
Seoni - Human Female Sorceress
Valeros - Human Male Fighter)

[CourtFool]

Valeros - Human Male Fighter)

…plus tankard.

[Lord Fyre]

…plus tankard.

:rofl:

[Killer Shrike]

Well, since you have gone that far, you should add character write-ups for the four iconic characters. :P

(For those who have not looked at the Rise Of The Runelords series

Kyra - Human Female Cleric of Sarenrea
Merisiel - Elven Female Rogue
Seoni - Human Female Sorceress
Valeros - Human Male Fighter)


They're on my (lengthy) todo list. I changed positions at work and am getting a divorce, so I have a lot going on right now.

If someone were to rough them out or do them entirely using my conversion materials I would definitely take them for inclusion. I always credit contributors.

[Michael Hopcroft]

That's one heck of an extensive alpha test book. At least in terms of art, layout, etc.

I might well pursue their invitation to take part in the test dialog.

[proditor]

I've given the book a cursory scan, and there are a lot of concepts I like here. Only time and further Alpha testing will decide if I stick with it through Beta and on to Pathfinder, but there is some neat stuff.

[Lord Fyre]

I've given the book a cursory scan, and there are a lot of concepts I like here. Only time and further Alpha testing will decide if I stick with it through Beta and on to Pathfinder, but there is some neat stuff.

Given that it looks like Hasbro/WoTC is planning to gut the rest of the gaming market (where is the GSL anyway)? It might be a good idea to look carefully at options.

(Now, if we could just get some of those other companies to licence making HERO senarios/adventure paths . . . )

[Lord Mhoram]

Apparently Eric Mona has already had a bunch of interest in 3rd party support for pathfinder. :)

And I got an update early last week, they have already changed some of what they are doing with the rules, based on feedback. As they said, an Alpha you put all the exreme stuff to see what works, and pare back as you move into beta.

I'm enjoying following the whole situation. And with no GSL out yet, I am wondering if WotC is going to just give up on the idea.

[teh bunneh]

Whassa GSL?

[Lord Fyre]

Whassa GSL?

"Game System License" The legal permission for other companies to publish material for D&D 4th.

This replaces that "Open Gaming License" that was used for D&D 3.0/3.5.

The difference is that the GSL requires a formal contract of some kind between the 3rd Party Publisher and WoTC.

[Lord Mhoram]

"Game System License" The legal permission for other companies to publish material for D&D 4th.

This replaces that "Open Gaming License" that was used for D&D 3.0/3.5.


Mostly.

For 3.x
The OGL (Open Game License) opened anything published under it to be open forever. The D20 License was WotC controlled that meant you couldnt' have XP charts and how to roll up stats (basically saying if you use the d20 logo, you couldn't make a standalone game). The d20 license was restrictive, the OGL was not - M&M, True20, Conan, Monte's Arcana Unearthed and others were all published under the OGL rather than the D20 License.

Wizards doesn't want a repeat of what happened under the OGL, with people using their rules to make competing games. So in the initial discussion with possible licensees (the major D20 publishers - Paizo, Necromancer, Green Ronin, Mongoose and others) Wizards rolled out a new "OGL". It later was called the GSL (or game system licence) - It was basically the d20 license - no XP charts, no new games, but you could publish supplements under it.

The original plan was the by end of Jan, start of Feb the License itself would be done, and would be shown to the publishers mentioned above. If they liked the license, they could pony up 5 grand, get the 4th ed rules, and publish 4th ed D&D books with no competition until the end of the year. The GSL would be made public at Gencon (IIRC) and other people could produce product under it beginning Jan 2009. The SRD (system referene document) would no longer be the rules themselves, but a pointer to what rules were usable with the GSL (so people had to have a copy of the rules to use the SRD - Wizards didn't like players using online free SRDs for playing D&D 3.x either).

But the preview of the GSL never materialized. We are almost to the end of March. With product development taking as long as it does, most publishers (aside from Clark at Necromancer who is super enthused about 4th), are on the fence about doing 4th (Chris Pramas has some interesting stuff to say about it on his blog). With the delay meaning a shrinking time for a lock on the market, the attraction of the 5 grand early view is dwindling.

[Lord Fyre]

The original plan was the by end of Jan, start of Feb the License itself would be done, and would be shown to the publishers mentioned above. If they liked the license, they could pony up 5 grand, get the 4th ed rules, and publish 4th ed D&D books with no competition until the end of the year. The GSL would be made public at Gencon (IIRC) and other people could produce product under it beginning Jan 2009. The SRD (system referene document) would no longer be the rules themselves, but a pointer to what rules were usable with the GSL (so people had to have a copy of the rules to use the SRD - Wizards didn't like players using online free SRDs for playing D&D 3.x either).

But the preview of the GSL never materialized. We are almost to the end of March. With product development taking as long as it does, most publishers (aside from Clark at Necromancer who is super enthused about 4th), are on the fence about doing 4th (Chris Pramas has some interesting stuff to say about it on his blog). With the delay meaning a shrinking time for a lock on the market, the attraction of the 5 grand early view is dwindling.

A related issue is that -reguardless of what Paizo may have been planning all along- the delay on the GSL creates the situation where 3rd Party publishers are being pushed into finding alternative plans. (They can't wait forever to publish product.) :straight:

[Lord Mhoram]

A related issue is that -reguardless of what Paizo may have been planning all along- the delay on the GSL creates the situation where 3rd Party publishers are being pushed into finding alternative plans. (They can't wait forever to publish product.) :straight:

Absolutely. WotC looks to be shooting themselves in the foot with the delay. As I understand it, it was done but the Hasbro legal team (maybe it was the WotC legal team) are vetting it, and that is the holdup.

[proditor]

Apparently Eric Mona has already had a bunch of interest in 3rd party support for pathfinder. :)

And I got an update early last week, they have already changed some of what they are doing with the rules, based on feedback. As they said, an Alpha you put all the exreme stuff to see what works, and pare back as you move into beta.

I'm enjoying following the whole situation. And with no GSL out yet, I am wondering if WotC is going to just give up on the idea.

How do you get the updates? Sign up as a playtester?

[Lord Mhoram]

How do you get the updates? Sign up as a playtester?

When you download the Alpha it is just a standard purchase through their store. You have an account, and you buy it as $0.00 and they send you a link for the download. You put your email addy when you sign up.

When they updated the apha I got an email. I assume it was because I downloaded the alpha. :) I haven't been real active on the playtest boards (I'll not be playing this - the group is a Hero only group) so I assume that is where the notification system is.

I'm just waiting for the "big" updates with the other classes. :)

The update was on the 26th. And the info was included in the Alpha after that (or you could get a document detailing the changes, as this was a small one (2 pages) I did that).

[proditor]

When you download the Alpha it is just a standard purchase through their store. You have an account, and you buy it as $0.00 and they send you a link for the download. You put your email addy when you sign up.

When they updated the apha I got an email. I assume it was because I downloaded the alpha. :) I haven't been real active on the playtest boards (I'll not be playing this - the group is a Hero only group) so I assume that is where the notification system is.

I'm just waiting for the "big" updates with the other classes. :)

The update was on the 26th. And the info was included in the Alpha after that (or you could get a document detailing the changes, as this was a small one (2 pages) I did that).

Ah, much appreciated. I grabbed 1.1 Alpha since I didn't have the previous version. :)

[Roter Baron]

Pathfinder RPG is all good an well if it keeps D&D 3.5 in town under anaother name. I don't mind but I am not interested in it at all since I got a copy of 3.5 and TWO copies of 3.0 (German and English).

I am very looking forward to a Castles & Crusades campaign that a friend of me is going to start soonish - easy rules, gygaxish setting, classic adventures!

[Enforcer84]

Well, since you have gone that far, you should add character write-ups for the four iconic characters. :P

(For those who have not looked at the Rise Of The Runelords series

Kyra - Human Female Cleric of Sarenrea
Merisiel - Elven Female Rogue
Seoni - Human Female Sorceress
Valeros - Human Male Fighter)
Oh he's just beggin' to be the meat in an Iconic Sandwich.

[Enforcer84]

Color me intrigued.

[Killer Shrike]

They're on my (lengthy) todo list. I changed positions at work and am getting a divorce, so I have a lot going on right now.

If someone were to rough them out or do them entirely using my conversion materials I would definitely take them for inclusion. I always credit contributors.

Ok, reality check time. Got a handle on what I need to do to make deliverables in my new role at work. We got a contract to do some major new work for one of our bigger clients (the shipping company that starts with an F and ends with an X) and to make that happen on time I'm going to be slammed for the next 3 to 6 months with little to no time for hobbies.

I'd really like to see at least the 1st issue of Pathfinder fully converted for completionary purposes but just wont have the time for it in the foreseeable future. So, I'm reaching out here to you guys...if one or more of you could take it upon yourself to use the conversion materials on my site to convert the iconic / pregens and the monsters I haven't gotten to yet and at least get them 90% done I'll make the time to do an editorial check and get them posted and linked up. You'll be credited on the sheet, of course.

Thanks!

[Lord Mhoram]

The next Alpha release is up - 4 new classes (barbarin, Druid, Paladin and Sorceror) and other new stuff.

[proditor]

My best friend is a Paladin junkie, and she just about lost her mind over the revamp. She still thinks they could use a little more, but that this was one gigantic step in the right direction.

Alas, I miss the easier skill set, but the new one looks clean enough to make me at least feel that it's a big improvement over what we have in 3.5.

[Lord Mhoram]

My best friend is a Paladin junkie, and she just about lost her mind over the revamp. She still thinks they could use a little more, but that this was one gigantic step in the right direction.

Alas, I miss the easier skill set, but the new one looks clean enough to make me at least feel that it's a big improvement over what we have in 3.5.

Yeah. The alpha one skill rules were too big of a break from 3.x. I personally hated them, I like to customize with cross class skills with a rank here or there. The new one is a good compromise.

I was just hoping to see the Monk (I end up playing Monks, Paladin/Clerics or Sorcerers) :)