Name Something You'd Allow That The GM At The Convention Didn't [Archive]

HalloweenKnight

Apr 12th, '08, 10:07 PM

I've always wanted to go to a gaming convention, bring my 5th Ed. Champions character in a nice binder, front some cash (I assume you have to pay), and game the day away with a bunch of strangers.

But I've never actually been to a convention. Ever. They just don't happen for me locally and/or conveniently.

Still...if I could...

Anyway, one thing that ruins the whole idea for me is: What if my beloved Champions character has something the GM doesn't allow? Granted, I'm careful about rules abuse, but I can only bring just so many alternate versions of my character with me "just in case".

So, for you convention-regulars (and irregulars) I ask you this: When have you shown up at a gaming convention with your tried-and-true character sheet in tow and nothing (you think) abnormal about it, only to have the table GM say "Sorry, I don't allow that" while you stand there in shock with a little word bubble saying "WTF?!" over your head?

lemming

Apr 12th, '08, 10:42 PM

I believe that one is going to be playing the personality and some powers just don't fly with some GMs.

Thia Halmades

Apr 12th, '08, 10:53 PM

Well, there was the time that we encountered a series of trapped pillars, and I got the bright idea to tie a rope around the waist of the PC who was doing the trap-testing and then yank him out of the way if I saw something bad about to happen to him. Problem was the GM decided that he shouldn't allow it. Not with a DEX check, not with a Reflex save... nothing.

I was very, very embittered at that game.

Outsider

Apr 13th, '08, 03:44 AM

Try going to a few conventions and being the GM in 'Bring Your Own Character' games.

Karmakaze

Apr 13th, '08, 08:34 AM

There's a reason I only run games with pre-gen characters. When you're playing in your living room with friends, you usually get a chance to look at the characters ahead of time, check for creative math, and make sure the characters balance against one another (either by hand or by using campaign limits, or whatever). There's a fair amount of front-loading that goes on with a good campaign or module.

At a convention, unless you want to hold up the game for an hour out of the four-hour slot, you need to weed a whole lot faster. This means that if you've minmaxed your character (as any experienced player will), there will be complex constructions on your sheet that will strike a GM as "this reminds me of something problematic I have seen before" - maybe if the GM takes the time to number-crunch, it'll turn out to be ok, but that's time at a convention you just don't have.

Also keep in mind that while you may be playing character construction straight, players who come to BYO convention games are notorious for trying to pull one over. (That's not a specifically HERO phenomenon - I've heard more horror stories from D&D GM's.) It's like having a substitute teacher, some people always need to see what they can get away with.

If you really want to be safe, stay away from stop sign powers and frameworks. Maybe do a thought exercise of "What would this character look like if I built in only from Sidekick."

Vondy

Apr 13th, '08, 08:39 AM

I have not been to a con in almost fifteen years, but way back, I don't recall ever playing a con game that let me bring my own character. On the other hand, I've fielded characters other GMs allowed in their games and insisted on rebuilds more than once, and have tweaked my own designs when sitting in on other gamemaster's games on occassion, too.

McCoy

Apr 13th, '08, 06:57 PM

I remember these as being at Cons, but not if it was the same GM.

First, and Elemental Control had to have a special effect of Earth, Air, Fire or Water. Period. List closed.

Then an NPC flying at an altitude of 2" was immune form a AE, radius attack. "it forms a circle on the ground, not a hemisphere. It's called Area Effect, not Volume Effect."

Had to be two seperate GM's as I cannot imagine staying at the table long enough for someone to get to the second one.

What I didn't allow that a player argued about longest, he had bought Distinctive Features five times. On a character with a Public ID. "Anyone touching or tasting your character is already going to know who he is." Same character's kryptonite was plastic. Was put into GM's option by an agent in a Kelvar vest. That was in the 80's. GM's option is GM's option, and I'm choosing he's still in the freaking coma.

lemming

Apr 13th, '08, 09:46 PM

Try going to a few conventions and being the GM in 'Bring Your Own Character' games.
I prefer people to bring their own. I'm a pretty fast weeder.

teh bunneh

Apr 14th, '08, 09:11 AM

Like Karmakaze, all the games I run at conventions use Pregen characters. Don't even ask if you can bring your own character. Heck, I don't even allow people to bring their favorite characters from other games into my regular games. I've seen it way too many times:

Player: Captain Mighty has a spaceship that he didn't have to pay points for, because he stole it from the Magma Men.
GM: Uh, no, he can't have that. There's no Magma Men in my campaign for one thing, and for another you're all supposed to be starting characters, for a third there's no spaceships, and for yet another...
Player: But my old GM let me have it <whinge whinge whinge until the GM either gives in (resulting in an uphappy GM and an unbalanced campaign) or the player gives in (resulting in a cranky and disruptive player)>

Nope. Never happen again. Never ever never. "I was in this one campaign where my character was this, and I want to play him again" is an automatic "Come up with another concept" at my table.

Adventus

Apr 14th, '08, 03:22 PM

I prefer people to bring their own. I'm a pretty fast weeder.

Ohhh you have Speed-Weeding at a 16-?:p;)

I didn't see that in my copy of 5er. Not allowed! :p

ghost-angel

Apr 14th, '08, 05:36 PM

I don't bring my characters to conventions to play in other peoples games.

For one, the Setting is as much a part of my characters as what's written on the sheet. I don't see many, if not all, of my characters fitting into a different campaign.

For another, half the fun is playing with an essentially fresh character I've never seen and coming up with a personality to use.

Susano

Apr 14th, '08, 06:39 PM

SteveZilla

Apr 15th, '08, 02:31 AM

In the last 20 years, I've only played in two Convention games (same convention, same GM, same system -- Hero System! :D) that didn't have pre-gens, and I built mine from scratch for each right at the table. Both were 150pt games, one Fantasy Hero, one Star Hero. I didn't try anything overly broken in either.

I did give each one 4 overall skill levels, however. ;)

Silbeg

Apr 15th, '08, 06:39 AM

Ohhh you have Speed-Weeding at a 16-?:p;)

I didn't see that in my copy of 5er. Not allowed! :p

PS: Speed-weeding (based on DEX?)

Anything can be found with the right background skill.

Silbeg

Apr 15th, '08, 06:45 AM

I've not played in a lot of Con games, but all of them used pre-gen characters. Usually because the setting was built around the pre-gens (or the pre-gens were built for the setting). I certainly wouldn't want to try and deal with looking over 4-6 350-point supers for a Con Game and hoping all went okay.

I would agree with you there. In the Con games I have run (about seven or so), I have always provided pre-gens. I've offered to pre-approve characters (via email, or whatever), but have had no takers.

My reasons are two-fold. First is balance... it is a lot easier to create appropriate challenges when you know the characters. Only second is the time factor.

I have played in Con games that allowed you to bring in a character (I can think of a couple of Shadowrun games that I have done so)... I also remember the GM saying "I am not allowing Stun Ball in any future Con characters." (I was playing a dwarfish sun shaman in that Shadowrun game... something about being able to take down most of the adversaries with a single attack upset him. ;) )

Lord Mhoram

Apr 15th, '08, 07:16 AM

Heck, I don't even allow people to bring their favorite characters from other games into my regular games. I've seen it way too many times:

If I have a character that I didn't feel was played enough in a previous campaign (due to moving, campaign folding and whatnot), I'll talk to a new GM about using the basic concept and do new version of the character. A couple of my characters have been reboots of previous ideas, but tailored to the new campaign.

Sort of like the Golden/Silver versions of DC heroes or the Normal/Ultimate versions of Marvel Heroes - the basic concept stays the same, but details of origin background and such are switched to fit the new campaign, and it is a new character with no history.

teh bunneh

Apr 15th, '08, 07:43 AM

If I have a character that I didn't feel was played enough in a previous campaign (due to moving, campaign folding and whatnot), I'll talk to a new GM about using the basic concept and do new version of the character. A couple of my characters have been reboots of previous ideas, but tailored to the new campaign.

Sort of like the Golden/Silver versions of DC heroes or the Normal/Ultimate versions of Marvel Heroes - the basic concept stays the same, but details of origin background and such are switched to fit the new campaign, and it is a new character with no history.

That might be allowed in my games. If it were a character that you'd never played before that also might be allowable. I've just had several bad experiences (both as GM and as a fellow player) when someone came into a game with a character that they had played in another game. Nobody was happy.

Lord Mhoram

Apr 15th, '08, 08:18 AM

That might be allowed in my games. If it were a character that you'd never played before that also might be allowable. I've just had several bad experiences (both as GM and as a fellow player) when someone came into a game with a character that they had played in another game. Nobody was happy.

Yeah.

I tend to like characters that have long playing lives. If one is cut short it just annoys me, so I sometimes reboot a character (this is in home games, not con play - never been to a con). I've done it twice with good effect (Black Cat was one of those, Meeb the other.. for those that have followed comments about my characters). When I do such things, I keep the base concept, and everything else is tied to the new world. I would never insist that previous events still happened... unless the character was coming into a campaign late, and then I would go over my characters history and see what elements would fit with the campaign world (if any), and just incorporate those into the background.

pinecone

Apr 15th, '08, 06:46 PM

pinecone

Apr 15th, '08, 06:52 PM

On the Con games front...I've always allowed "Bring your own" and had few problems...I bring a half dozen in case we can't fix any problems found....and I think it makes things more fun for the players....

GloryFox

Apr 15th, '08, 09:25 PM

I have been a GM at cons before and I can tell you it's always difficult to GM when you allow players to bring their own character no matter the game. However I do take cash bribes as I do need to feed my kid and his Role Playing Game & Dice collection habit.

But seriously as a Convention GM I usually have 12 characters pre-written up for a 6 man game. Player are always free to look across the spectrum and I have rules on character creation. If a player can provide something similar and follow my balance rules then his character would fit in just nice.

BTW I have never done a Convention as a GM with the HERO system but I hope I can someday.

mattingly

Apr 16th, '08, 04:48 AM

I certainly wouldn't want to try and deal with looking over 4-6 350-point supers for a Con Game and hoping all went okay.
Me, either. That's why I look over two dozen 350-point superheroes in my annual GenCon Bring Your Own Brick game. :)

RPG01143, Friday 8/15, 8am-noon, Union Station Southern Room.

Karmakaze

Apr 16th, '08, 05:07 AM

I should also note that, in my case, at least one of my settings is explicitly designed to be novice-friendly. For that setting, the pre-gens are also necessary, because walking someone with no familiarity with the system at all through character gen is not necessarily a good launching point. My convention pre-gens also are often simpler than I would play or allow for a regular game. One of the random factors at a convention is who's going to be filling the table. As a GM, that means that I need to be able to field HERO oldbies and someone who may never have roleplayed before at the same table. (Sure, you may put "experience required" on the description, but that's not enforced in any way) As a player, it means being aware that the person sitting next to you might be able to rulemonger you into the ground or be totally intimidated by your homebrew character sheet. Your convention GM may not just be balancing from a number-crunching standpoint, but also against what will streamline or complicate gameplay for that module.

incrdbil

Apr 16th, '08, 05:40 AM

I hav e to say, based on past experiences, I'd skip any 'bring your own' character games at a CON. Maybe there are some GM's out there who can do character review in a decent amount of time, and make sure all characters come out roughly equal, but my past experience has been very different. It either eats up all the time, or the GM lets in very uneven characters (favoring hsi buddies in the worst cases)..and it just becomes a waste of time.

The best CON games had pre-gens, or we played iconic CU characters. One memorable game I was in, the team played the ultimates, saving the world when the heroes screwed up in the Great Super Villain Contest. I had so much fun playing Binder.

Susano

Apr 16th, '08, 05:41 AM

Gummibear

Apr 17th, '08, 04:54 AM

Me, either. That's why I look over two dozen 350-point superheroes in my annual GenCon Bring Your Own Brick game. :)

RPG01143, Friday 8/15, 8am-noon, Union Station Southern Room.

How many years have you run that game? I ask because I played/won a game titled My Toughest Hero about 13 years ago. I was wondering if it was still being run. It was great fun.
If it is I might be inspired to bring my battling doctor Gummibear and make it to the next one.

As far as characters and BYO con games I think that's one of the watershed moments for any GM. You get to be faced with relative unknowns; all the player's munchkinism previously described and(if we are to be honest with ourselves) that we have all gone through ourselves. Then in the heat of the game attempt to balance it, and occasionally disallow it, while attempting to maintain harmony at the table. Good times.

I am reminded of a non-Hero, 5-10the level D20 BYO game that I ran where a late comer brought his own half dragon half human to the game. I allowed him in because I knew his type and knew he would be predictable. :eg:
He had a bag of holding that he kept pulling everything out of under the sun while dutifully attempting to not be part of the group. He had a habit of shifting into his dragon form secretly, so when a dragon suddenly appeared in a house the group was fighting in it immediately became the much greater threat and the team attacked him. Ironically so did the villains-common enemy and all. The character fled the house the whole time trying to figure out why everyone had attacked him. This was shortly followed by the player leaving the table to pursue some "other game." He offered some half-hearted apology "Sorry to have destroyed your game." This was responded to pretty unanimously at the table by "you didn't-you were a nice amusing diversion."
:p
The punchline was later in the game when one of the other players (a thief) that had "obtained" the half dragon's bag of holding was fighting an Ogre. He suddenly reached into the bag and said "I'm pulling out a +5 knife of Ogre Slaying because you have to know that its in here." The table errupted in laughter and I gave it to him.
:D
Good times.

GreyGuardian

Apr 18th, '08, 10:48 AM

Using player generated characters would be possible if character creation guidelines could be provided to everyone registered for the game at least a few weeks before a convention. Those character guidelines would need to be more restrictive than build a 350 point super hero using any hero system rule or variant. A "living game" like the rpga d20 living greyhawk might be possible if you had enough people with enough spare time that could write clear guidlines and coordinated scenario releases / publication.

With that said, expect convention games to use pre-generated characters because it solves several potential problems. 1) No character legality check needed, 2) game master knows what the characters are capable of and can balance opposition to provide whatever level of challenge is desired, 3) player character agendas and dynamics can be set to get players "into the character" and give them each something unique to strive for as well as providing built in role play opportunities within the player group.

mattingly

Apr 18th, '08, 01:06 PM

Yeah, but you have that ace up your sleeve. Anyone who looks out of whack is used by you as the opposition.
Shh! that's a secret. ;)

How many years have you run that game? I ask because I played/won a game titled My Toughest Hero about 13 years ago.
That wasn't me. I've been doing this for 5 or 6 years now.

CTaylor

Apr 18th, '08, 01:17 PM

One of my favorite games I ran at a convention I let people bring any character they wanted, no matter what the build or point cost, rules raping or what have you, and they played their guy in one fight easily defeating the bad guys. Then, the next morning, they woke up in Stronghold prison... as the bad guys they defeated, their minds swapped by a device used in the fight. They had to escape from prison, get to their base, beat up the bad guys, and clear their names, while somehow figuring out a way to swap their minds back. Meanwhile the bad guys were in their hero bodies, which were these unchecked monstrosities with munchkinized stats.

It was lots of fun. Would have been even more fun in an ongoing campaign, as the bad guys were spending every waking moment smearing the names and reputations of the heroes, since they knew the swap would reverse automatically in a matter of days. Painting swastikas on synagoges, groping little girls, saying terrible things in public, going on drunken rampages, etc.

HalloweenKnight

Apr 19th, '08, 06:49 AM

One of my favorite games I ran at a convention I let people bring any character they wanted, no matter what the build or point cost, rules raping or what have you, and they played their guy in one fight easily defeating the bad guys. Then, the next morning, they woke up in Stronghold prison... as the bad guys they defeated, their minds swapped by a device used in the fight. They had to escape from prison, get to their base, beat up the bad guys, and clear their names, while somehow figuring out a way to swap their minds back. Meanwhile the bad guys were in their hero bodies, which were these unchecked monstrosities with munchkinized stats.

In a word, brilliant. :D

When I was still GMing, my players never needed the "your character is too powerful" lesson very often...but if they did? This would've been the way to go.

CTaylor

Apr 19th, '08, 08:50 AM

Once the new Champions Universe and edition is out I'll look at rebuilding it and writing the adventure up for publication, you never know I might be able to even sell it to Hero. It was a somewhat uneven adventure largely because I was feeling ill by the end, but the concept was a load of fun. My experience running games at conventions has been a mixed bag because I usually end up a wreck by the end of the game.

casualplayer

Apr 19th, '08, 08:45 PM

Many moons ago, think it was '90, my buddies and I descended on PacificCon in San Mateo, CA. We had HERO gaming in our sights, this being the birthplace of Champions and all. I couldn't score an event ticket though due to the popularity of the Champions events however my friend Dylan did. He shows up to his BYO event with Dr. Arcane, a mystical elemental multiform character who was BTW the son-in-law of Mallonee's Dr. Arcane. The GM took one look at the 6 character sheets that Dylan handed him (human, earth, air, fire, water and void) and said "Hell, no!" My buddy desperate to still play bummed a character off me, Onslaught, who he then proceeded to have a blast with. See, Dr. Arcane spent a lot of time making up his mind which spell to use (VPP) or which form to be in (Multiform) or Recovering from getting walloped. Onslaught was built to take a licking and keep on ticking, with a 50 CON, and Dylan was giddy that he didn't get Stunned once during the whole game.

So I would whole-heartedly recommend against bringing a Multiform character to a con game.

Silbeg

Apr 24th, '08, 07:36 AM

So I would whole-heartedly recommend against bringing a Multiform character to a con game.

I have to say, were I to do a "bring your own" character game, I would be very hesitant to allow a multiform character. Not because they are intrinsically unbalanced... but that it would take too much of my time to review them.

All this talk makes me want to do a "build your own" battle royale game next CotN... Have to have a session prior to the game to build characters... all characters have to have their math, etc., checked by entry in to Hero Designer. 8 heroes enter, only one walks away!

BNakagawa

Apr 24th, '08, 08:37 AM

I have to say, were I to do a "bring your own" character game, I would be very hesitant to allow a multiform character. Not because they are intrinsically unbalanced... but that it would take too much of my time to review them.

Also, because at a convention, you may not (and probably don't) have any clue whether or not this particular player can competently play a character with multiform.

Bloodstone

Apr 24th, '08, 09:27 AM

At a Con game, I'd be really wary of Duplication, VPP's and characters with abnormally high SPD. In the wrong hands, these powers can easily slow a combat to an absolute crawl for the rest of the players.

Many GM's look down on the following powers as game breaking, especially for games with a mystery to solve: Mind Scan, Telepathy, Precognition, Retrocognition/Psychometry.

Any power can be pretty game breaking if the GM isn't ready for it thogh. I had a GM put Grond up against a team of supers that included a Human Torch homage and a White Queen level Telepath... :rofl:

SteveZilla

Apr 24th, '08, 04:53 PM

The next time I happen across a BYOC Hero game at a con, I might try something like this just to see what kind of reaction I could provoke:

10 DEX (+100 Lighning Reflexes w/ Speed Drain)
12 SPD

10D6 Speed Drain - AoE: Radius, Megascaled Area(1"=1000 km), Zero END, Personal Immunity, Penetrating; and No Range.

1 PIP RKA - Penetrating x4, Armor Piercing x4, Zero END, and Personal Immunity.

:D

I'd of course have a real character to play after I tell him that was a joke.