The Really Big Book

[Edsel]

I have been loving my copy of Fantasy Hero. There is absolutely a massive amount of information, definately worth the price.:)

However, I am worried about the spine of this thing. Its a huge book for a paperback. Hardback would have been nice but I am sure economic realities precluded that happening. I kind of wished they'd broken this thing into two volumns though. Am I the only one who finds the size to be a little akward?

[AnotherSkip]

Actually if you are worried about the binding there are several options first of which is your local kinko's/copy store simply ask them to remove the current binding and replace with a spiral binding, I have done this with my 1AD&D DMG and UA together in one volume and original (my own ) laminated artwork. Though not as spffy as some others it still is a great deal!
Spiral binding also has the wonderful option of making your books lay flat. You can also get the cardboard backing placed on the inside of the front cover (probably after copying any information therin onto a separate sheet if necessary....) and lamaination also giving you a very durable book. Im waiting for damaged products to become availible to do that to some of my books and as gifts to friends.....

:)

having said that, these books are better made than SR or ED stuff and Rifts so far so good.
i have known people to just rip the pages out of new books and place them in binders because teh books fell apart that fast so far my UMA which has been lent out quite a bit is no where near needing such treatment.

[Toadmaster]

I had a similar thought, in fact when I ordered mine I also got USPD figuring that it would be a good resource for magic until the Grimore comes out. When I picked up my books I initially thought FH was FH and the USPD until the guy at the store also grabbed the USPD off the shelf and put it on the counter as well. USPD is no small book either.

I haven't had any problems with the bindings to any of the other HERO books, SH and TUV are pretty big, but I am a little worried about FH, I can just picture it splitting down the middle. Just out of curiosity I put it down next to 4th ed FH and the 2 FH companions and 5th FH is still larger.

I wonder if DoJ did any binding tests on FH like they did with HERO 5.

[austenandrews]

You're not alone. I have conflicting feelings about the size of the book.

On the one hand it's nice to have a lot of generic material as a launching point for game ideas. FH definitely covers an impressive number of details.

On the other hand the 5E book is huge by itself, and hauling both books to a game is no small burden. It's not that I mind large books if they're useful, but easily half of FH is background world-building type material, which is not really usable during game play. Then there's the fact that FH has no monster writeups (buy The Bestiary!), no vehicle rules or writeups (buy The Ultimate Vehicle!), only two martial arts packages (buy The Ultimate Martial Artist! ... how many books am I supposed to haul to each game?), but it does have two pages explaining that fantasy worlds have forests, mountains and rivers. I dunno, I guess I feel like the book would have benefited from either (a) some judicious editing to cut down the page count, or (b) a better cross-section of Hero gaming material.

In the end, and granted that I haven't read the whole thing yet, I feel that FH is an impressive writing feat and seems to be a terrific GM resource, but as a session-to-session gaming reference, the size-v.s.-useful-content ratio is not that great. Maybe splitting it into two books would have been a good idea.

-AA

[Steve Long]

I wonder if DoJ did any binding tests on FH like they did with HERO 5.

We did not, but we specifically checked with the printer on this issue, and were assured that they could perfect-bind softcover books of up to 800 pages without creating any binding problems. They could go as high as 1,200 pages, in fact, but above 800 they couldn't offer assurances that the binding would hold.

[tkdguy]

I guess you can always make photocopies. Shrink the pages so you can fit 2 pages in 1 sheet of paper. Then you cover it with a transparent page protector and put it in a 3-ring binder. Just do this with the pages you really need. That should save some space. I know someone who did that. No copyright infringement meant; just lightening the load.

[GamePhil]

Funny you should mention that: the guy at the game store actually told me that a large part of the FH shipment had to be recalled because the book's size caused it to be damaged.

I then walked down the street (it was in San Francisco) and asked the Prez about it. Rest assured, the game store guy was smoking something (a phrase I would not normally use, but it *is* how the fellow described the DOJ crew, along with "They must be new at this").

Sorry, it just seemed funny and I wanted to share. I will never understand why game stores don't have the same level of quality customer service as, say, Fry's Electronics.

[tkdguy]

You weren't talking about Gamescape, were you? 'Cause the guys there were acting wackier than usual yesterday. Okay, everyone who goes there (myself included) is wacky on any given day, but yesterday seemed a little stranger than most. Another time I was there, tow girls came in to see what their boyfriends were up to. They left looking like they landed on an alien world. As one of the girls put it, "very educational!"

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by tkdguy
You weren't talking about Gamescape, were you?

That's the place. I was surprised. I mean, honestly, a bookstore badmouthing the publisher is bad enough (I can see reasons for it, such as having a bunch of irate customers what can't get their stuff). But badmouthing them without having verified facts is simply unprofessional, and can easily lose you sales.

I guess we Hero Faithful don't rate somehow...

I might just go back there for the next book, if that was just the end of an off week, though. It's easier to reach than other gaming stores in the area. Well, except for Scenario, but they are generally a month behind on Hero books, which is also unacceptable, and don't take orders.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by Steve Long
We did not, but we specifically checked with the printer on this issue, and were assured that they could perfect-bind softcover books of up to 800 pages without creating any binding problems. They could go as high as 1,200 pages, in fact, but above 800 they couldn't offer assurances that the binding would hold. Ah, wonderful! Does that mean I can start on my 600,000 word manuscript for The Ultimate Base? ;)

(Okay, you can stop laughing now....)

[Steve Long]

the guy at the game store actually told me that a large part of the FH shipment had to be recalled because the book's size caused it to be damaged.

As you've already learned, this is utter hogwash. It's most likely something a distributor concocted to explain why he didn't have the book in stock, or that a game store employee concocted because he didn't want to be bothered doing his job (or wanted to cover the fact he didn't know what you were asking about).

Game stores often fail to give the same level of customer service as Fry's because Fry's is planned and run as a business. Far too many game stores are just extensions of some guy's hobby created primarily so he can get his game stuff at wholesale prices. But when you do come across a professionally-run game store, you'll be amazed at how cool they are. The good game retailers, as few and far between as they sometimes are, are really great.

[Polaris]

Steve,

I couldn't agree with you more. A good game retailer is great to deal with. Here in Portland, we have a game store called Bridgetown Hobbies. Shortly before the arrival of FREd, some of us went in and began asking them to order it. The employees began regularly checking the Hero games site, and do an excellent job keeping up with what is happening with Hero Games (in addition to keeping informed about WoTC and others). When people have a question about a book or other product, they offer to call their distributor and find out for them on the spot. If they don't know something, they don't feel a need to make something up... they try to find out (usually within minutes, but when they needed to do some checking around, they promised to call me back... and actually did).

They are a credit to the industry, and make the extra drive worth it.

Wow.. this sounds like a commercial. lol...:) I have dealt with game stores that carried games as an afterthought, or were ran by people that thought it would be neat to have a store more than really learning the business side of things. It is good to find one that is ran like it should.

Polaris

[lemming]

Originally posted by GamePhil
Sorry, it just seemed funny and I wanted to share. I will never understand why game stores don't have the same level of quality customer service as, say, Fry's Electronics.

I don't want to defend Gamescape, since the Palo Alto store always creeped me out, but seeing the wish for Customer Service as good as Fry's laughable. Back in 1989 their service was good, but I think they've diluted that level of service amongst aLL thier stores.

Though if you want to check on the reliability of a certain computer part, check what percentage of the boxes have been labeled returned.

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by austenandrews
You're not alone. I have conflicting feelings about the size of the book.

On the one hand it's nice to have a lot of generic material as a launching point for game ideas. FH definitely covers an impressive number of details.

On the other hand the 5E book is huge by itself, and hauling both books to a game is no small burden. It's not that I mind large books if they're useful, but easily half of FH is background world-building type material, which is not really usable during game play. Then there's the fact that FH has no monster writeups (buy The Bestiary!), no vehicle rules or writeups (buy The Ultimate Vehicle!), only two martial arts packages (buy The Ultimate Martial Artist! ... how many books am I supposed to haul to each game?), but it does have two pages explaining that fantasy worlds have forests, mountains and rivers. I dunno, I guess I feel like the book would have benefited from either (a) some judicious editing to cut down the page count, or (b) a better cross-section of Hero gaming material.

In the end, and granted that I haven't read the whole thing yet, I feel that FH is an impressive writing feat and seems to be a terrific GM resource, but as a session-to-session gaming reference, the size-v.s.-useful-content ratio is not that great. Maybe splitting it into two books would have been a good idea.

-AA

Reading over some of the messages in this thread it almost looks like we're complaining about the amount of material HERO is putting out, but I know what you mean, If you were going to a con and planning to play in a few differant genres, I'm pretty sure you would need a hand cart to get around.

On the plus side I built a new bookcase yesterday because my current one was overflowing (stacks of book piling up on the floor, on top of other books and stacked on top of the bookcase). The HERO products I've bought since DoJ took over easily matches all the stuff HERO put out before, at least in overall thickness, almost every book that is a remake of an old book is at least twice as thick. Nice job DoJ. Now how about selling an official HERO hover cart so we can get this stuff to our games.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by lemming
I don't want to defend Gamescape, since the Palo Alto store always creeped me out, but seeing the wish for Customer Service as good as Fry's laughable.

No, my wish for customer service as good as Fry's is not laughable. It is tragic. There is a difference, one which it seems you failed to appreciate.

My fault. I forget that subtle irony is often hard to see in text.

Regardless of how bad they can be sometimes, my experiences with them have been better on a strict percentage basis than my experiences at gaming stores. And they have a lot more to deal with, both as far as product and customers are concerned.

[Dauntless]

You know, that was my immediate first impression too. I actually would have been willing to pay 45$ for this thing if it came in a hard back edition. I'm almost positive the spine on this is going to give way within a few months.

[lemming]

Originally posted by GamePhil
No, my wish for customer service as good as Fry's is not laughable. It is tragic. There is a difference, one which it seems you failed to appreciate.

My fault. I forget that subtle irony is often hard to see in text.

It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by lemming
It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's.

Eh, Steve's in North Carolina, do they even have Fry's there? Or perhaps they're better out there than they are here, outside of "God's Country", as he likes to put it. Quite possible: you never know when one of your clients will be God checking up on you...

Sorry, Steve, I do believe I have inadvertently misled you.

[BobGreenwade]

Originally posted by lemming
It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's. This is one part I find odd; I've visited the Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon several times and never found anything to complain about. Yet there's even a website (I don't have the URL on me anywhere) devoted to the company's allegedly bad customer service.

[lemming]

Originally posted by BobGreenwade
This is one part I find odd; I've visited the Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon several times and never found anything to complain about. Yet there's even a website (I don't have the URL on me anywhere) devoted to the company's allegedly bad customer service.
Actually, the Wilsonville store isn't too bad as Fry's go.

The worst one in my experience has been the Western Themed one in Palo Alto. I used to go there to pick up components for a sysadmin job I had.

I went to the original Fry's not long after they had opened after the brothers got their dad to loan them some money. (He owned a grocery chain called Fry's) At that point the people they had, knew their stuff. They hadn't started going with the themes and they only sold Computers, Shampoo & other Bath products, Junk Food, and Porn. You could go in, ask for a particular part, they might suggest a good alternative, and you'd leave a happy customer.
Then they got bigger and started hiring people who didn't know very much. That's when the problems began. They're still not a horrible place to shop and they're often the cheapest spot. Just don't buy items in a returned box or happen to have a lot of returned friends...

Fry's outside of California are in Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Texas.

[The Mad GM]

My phonebook lasts a year. I'm willing to wait and see.

[Old Man]

I have now seen FH in person and will refer to it as the FHonebook from now on.

[Polaris]

I used to work at Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon. I think our customer service actually was quite good (not that all employees were good at it, but as a store we had a good customer service policy that most of us followed quite well).

Obviously, I couldn't say how well any other store did their customer service.

Polaris

[Nato]

Wow, I just saw this book at my local gaming store. Huge! Too bad it was shrinkwrapped and I can't take a look at it. (Did I mention how much I hate that All Star Games in Diamond Bar, California shrink wraps everything but D&D products!!!) Anyway, I didn't pick it up because I get comp copies for my artwork - but I can't wait to get it!

[Catseye]

Originally posted by Steve Long
As you've already learned, this is utter hogwash. It's most likely something a distributor concocted to explain why he didn't have the book in stock, or that a game store employee concocted because he didn't want to be bothered doing his job (or wanted to cover the fact he didn't know what you were asking about).

Game stores often fail to give the same level of customer service as Fry's because Fry's is planned and run as a business. .

Um, not being from around here I think Steve missed the gag.

In the SF bay area Fry's is notorious for bad service.
(Try Googling for "I Hate Frys" Steve, there are whoel web pages devoted to the subject.)

Suggesting that someone needs to work to get to Fry's level of service, at least around here, is a true insult.

Catseye

[Catseye]

Originally posted by GamePhil
No, my wish for customer service as good as Fry's is not laughable. It is tragic. There is a difference, one which it seems you failed to appreciate.

My fault. I forget that subtle irony is often hard to see in text.

.

Phil,

I understood :)

Catseye

[Killer Shrike]

Yeah, we have a Fry's here in San Diego, about midway btwn where I work and where I live on Aero Dr off the 15. I NEVER go there. The customer services is THE WORST. Product strewn all over the place. half the crap on the shelves is returned product, a quarter of it mislabled, and it takes a half an hour to check out of there if you actually buy something.

Erm...oh yeah, fantasy forum...something vaguely OT...uh......."We hates it, my precious!"

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by lemming
I don't want to defend Gamescape, since the Palo Alto store always creeped me out, but seeing the wish for Customer Service as good as Fry's laughable.

For what it is worth,

I will toot the horn of my friends comic/RPG/game center FLGS of Distant Realms in Fremont (about two blocks from Senario Games on Fremont Avenue in the Alder Shopping Center). My friend is very much into customer service, documentation and running things like a business. I watch as the store workers go wide eyed at all of the paperwork they need to do sometimes but when it comes to a question from a customer, an answer is just two mouse-clicks away.

They have been musing over the idea of opening more stores in other areas and, if it happens, at least the Bay Area will have some more professionally run gaming stores.

Okey, tooting over.

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by Old Man
I have now seen FH in person and will refer to it as the FHonebook from now on.

Oh, this is too good. :)
FH-One-Book = FHonebook. Good one, ol' man. ;)

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
(about two blocks from Senario Games on Fremont Avenue in the Alder Shopping Center).

Holy crud, that's within a mile of my apartment! Do you have the phone number? It doesn't seem to show up on yellowpages.com and my phone book is missing.

[MarkusDark]

Originally posted by GamePhil
Holy crud, that's within a mile of my apartment! Do you have the phone number? It doesn't seem to show up on yellowpages.com and my phone book is missing.

510-739-1101

They are relatively new and their Hero stock is slowly growing (thanks to me. :) ) BTW, they have an 'extra' copy of FH that they are trying to unload as they have limited shelf space at this moment and like to have just single copies of each out on the shelves.

I will actually be down there at 7pm running (or closing) a Champs game I run every Tuesday night.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
I will actually be down there at 7pm running (or closing) a Champs game I run every Tuesday night.

I'd drop by if only to put a face to the name, but I twisted my ankle this morning and can only limp around. Maybe next week.

Thanks for the number, I must check them out.

[The Mad GM]

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Old Man
I have now seen FH in person and will refer to it as the FHonebook from now on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by MarkusDark

Oh, this is too good.
FH-One-Book = FHonebook. Good one, ol' man.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like you're both hooked on FHonics.

[Tempuswolf]

lol

My first impression when I saw it was: "Wow, it's as big as a phonebook."

Long Live The FHonebook!

[slaughterj]

This discussion is really PHucked up... :eek:

[Bartman]

Originally posted by Old Man
I have now seen FH in person and will refer to it as the FHonebook from now on.

Uh, oh... I believe a new Hero term has just been coined.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by Bartman
Uh, oh... I believe a new Hero term has just been coined.

Nah, doesn't quite have the same "ring" ;)

[yongi]

Originally posted by slaughterj
Nah, doesn't quite have the same "ring" ;)

perhaps not, but it sure is keeping me busy. :eek:

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by yongi
perhaps not, but it sure is keeping me busy. :eek:

For the love of all that is good and right, please stop!

Seriously, I doubt that the running gag will be well... hmm, no.

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by GamePhil
For the love of all that is good and right, please stop!

Seriously, I doubt that the running gag will be well... hmm, no.

Were you going to say well...hung? ;)

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by slaughterj
Were you going to say well...hung? ;)

"Received".

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by GamePhil
"Received".

Aha, knew I'd get it out of you ;)

[Talon]

Originally posted by slaughterj
This discussion is really PHucked up... :eek:

It's off the hook!

[AnotherSkip]

Cant Somebody get some new lines !?!?!!

[slaughterj]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip
Cant Somebody get some new lines !?!?!!

Geez, you got a hang up or what?!

[austenandrews]

I just saw AnotherSkip's sig. You know, I've published three novels and written hundreds of posts on this board. It figures that's the quote that would be most remembered. :)

-AA

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by Tempuswolf
lol

My first impression when I saw it was: "Wow, it's as big as a phonebook."

Long Live The FHonebook!

I see the conection :D

[Dr Lucky]

Well, I just got my copy today, and hadn't seen the book in person up until now. Sweet mother of crap! This thing really is huge. It's going to take a long time to digest it all, but I'm sure it will be fun. I've been looking forward to this, and I'm sure I will not be disappointed.

[Celt]

Originally posted by slaughterj
Were you going to say well...hung? ;)

I don't like your... tone.

[Tasha]

Originally posted by Catseye
Um, not being from around here I think Steve missed the gag.

In the SF bay area Fry's is notorious for bad service.
(Try Googling for "I Hate Frys" Steve, there are whoel web pages devoted to the subject.)

Suggesting that someone needs to work to get to Fry's level of service, at least around here, is a true insult.

Catseye

While WAY out of date this is my favorite Fry's article.

http://www.gshotts.com/HUMOR/BreakfastAtFrys/breakfas.htm

Since that was written, the Sunnyvale Frys moved about 4blocks away and now has a Museum of Technology motif and the Fremont Frys has moved under some scary, big, buzzing high voltage backbone towers. It's motif is Electricity, of course.

Here in the Bay Area Frys is renouned for their attension to Ad errors, Long lines, and Clueless Salespeople who ignore you.

Tasha :)

[Tasha]

Originally posted by MarkusDark
For what it is worth,

I will toot the horn of my friends comic/RPG/game center FLGS of Distant Realms in Fremont (about two blocks from Senario Games on Fremont Avenue in the Alder Shopping Center). My friend is very much into customer service, documentation and running things like a business. I watch as the store workers go wide eyed at all of the paperwork they need to do sometimes but when it comes to a question from a customer, an answer is just two mouse-clicks away.

They have been musing over the idea of opening more stores in other areas and, if it happens, at least the Bay Area will have some more professionally run gaming stores.

Okey, tooting over.

Toot away, They are a great store. The service is top notch.

Tasha :)

[Snarf]

I'm not sure if this is relevant to how Fantasy Hero, uhh I mean The FHonebook, is bound, but my Star Hero book is coming apart after a couple of months. I've heard Hawaii is especially hard on book bindings.