If D&D3E is the 800 lb. Gorilla...

[Lord Liaden]

then Fantasy HERO beat it at GenCon by 68 pounds! :D

I'm really looking forward to seeing how FH does in the fantasy gaming marketplace - I have a good feeling.

[TechnoViking]

I think The Turakian Age will make or break Fantasy Hero with non-Hero Gamer. Fantasy Hero has always lack a well done world setting, and without that it is hard for new GMs/players to get into the game.

Mike

[GreyGuardian]

Assuming the Turakian age is something like the setting for Kull and Conan I expect it will be different enough from the high fantasy barely based on historical tech and culture mishmash that is dnd.

[Blue]

It's funny but the thing I always liked about Fantasy Hero was the lack of a setting.

Of course now I'm older, have more responsibilities and less time to commit, so I can't exactly build from the ground up the way I used to, so I'm definitely down for the Turakian age.

[Killer Shrike]

Of course everytime I hear "Turakian Age" I think of Turak, Dinosaur Hunter, the Valiant/Gold Key Character. :D

[Ulryk]

Actually FH had an extremely detailed setting...

Shadow World by TK Amthor.

It was originally made for Rolemaster, but some of the material had extremely well detailed Hero stats.

some of the other books only added those stats as an after thought, but it sure didn't take much to convert from RM.

That being said, I really look forward to an official FH setting.

[Steve Long]

KS, you're thinking of Turok, not Turak. ;)

Re: the nature of the Turakian Age setting, it's not a Conan/Kull type world. That's The Valdorian Age, also due out next year. TA is more of a High Fantasy/typical gaming Fantasy sort of world, since those are (a) the most popular among gamers, and (b) easiest to create material for that readily adapts to other types of settings.

Beyond that we have some even more unusual settings, like Tuala Morn and the Atlantean Age. And who knows where we could go from there?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Steve Long
KS, you're thinking of Turok, not Turak. ;)


Doh! The sad thing is Ive got a couple of long boxes of Valiant comix (including some Turok), and I still screwed that up! Oh well; all I can say is however you spell it, Im looking forward to seeing all the upcoming FH material. {changes the subject and ducks out} :D

[Karimarle]

Bring on Tuala Morn!
I also like the lack of setting for FH, but welcome setting books of all kinds for crunchy gaming goodness.
My brother is an avid fan of HERO but GMs D&D where he lives mostly for the fact they provide lots of background material.
I've had my own world brewing at the back and front of my own brain for some years now, so setting books are not a MUST, but I think they'll be great sellers. Even very creative people can profit from a springboard.

[Old Man]

Is there any possibility of altering the design values for the FH worldbooks? The stark black-and-white layout with gradient tables and chapter headings in Impact or Helvetica Narrow or whatever that is--it's fine for Champs and SH but it just doesn't fly with fantasy. There should be less block lettering and more ornate decoration within the book.

The worldbooks really need to drip with flavor to suck people into the world. As an example, look at the crap GW puts out. People talk about that stuff like they actually live there. Why? It sure as hell isn't the game system or the low cost. It's because the whole thing screams flavor--the headings, the backgrounds, the typefaces, the little short stories in the margins, and the art.

I don't know how much money DoJ has budgeted to sink into design stuff like this that people only notice subconsciously, but you can't suck people away from that other RPG if the interior of the worldbook looks like a Word document.

[Dr.Unpossible]

I have to 2nd Old Mans comments about style and flavor. The looks and presentation of the Games Workshop books practically sells themselves. Even when its just a B/W print job.

For my money I sure haven't been buying the HERO books so far for presentations. Much of the artwork is good, but the books have been prurdy conservative in there layout and style to date.

[Derek Hiemforth]

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'll speak up anyway...

I actually prefer the "conservative" approach to layout. I want to be able to read the information easily, and find information quickly. I don't need to ooh and aah over nifty layout tricks. :)

[rjcurrie]

I'd agree with Derek on the layout issue. Game books should be easy to use and clear to read. I do not find "ornate" borders and the like add any value to a book.

[naturaltwenty]

With a slight conversion the old Shards of the Stone (powered by Fuzion which was a bastard child of HERO 4th and RTG's Interlok system) would be an excellent fan-based conversion.

Also I have used Fantasy Hero (the old edition) to do Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Katherine Kerr's Deverry, and a couple more. The toolkit approach that Fantasy Hero brings to the table is outstanding. With the multiple magic settings that are now oh-so-tweakable and the grimoire coming out it will be easier than ever to convert worlds because IMO magic is the hardest thing to duplicate with any toolkit.

If you are going to do an original design though I would stay away from the standard fantasy tropes. The world doesn't need another orcs evil, elves good, halflings fat, type setting. For example Sword and Sorcerys Scarred Lands setting. While it does have elves, dwarves, halflings, etc it is more of a post-apocalyptic setting in a fantasy world. Doom and gloom abound and the world is recovering from the recent Titans War. Excellent fluff and adventure abounds. Larger than life enemies, excellent political interaction bettwen countries and a fully realized world.

Conversions that I am working on:

Brotherhood of the Wolf (great Drain and Aid powers)

Game of Thrones (low-powered magic here I come)

Later,

Natural Twenty

[tiger]

I'd like to see a more indeapth look at a setting for any game.

Terran Empire, while being well writen and awesome, is still a bit fague about a lot.

I hope some of the setting will go more into the cities, people and such.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'll speak up anyway...

I actually prefer the "conservative" approach to layout. I want to be able to read the information easily, and find information quickly. I don't need to ooh and aah over nifty layout tricks. :)

Count me in on that minority. I find the scrolling script, decorated borders and faux-parchment colored pages of a lot of fantasy game books to be distracting and sometimes hard to read. As long as the artwork for characters in the books is sufficiently evocative (not necessarily in color), I can bring in style and flavor myself in the role-playing part of the game. :)

[Ulryk]

The only D&D books I like are the FR books. Part of it is the page detail and formatting. The parchement look gives you the feel of some ancient tome. It's a nice touch that if you have the means is a good addition. If you don't then it's the first to omit. The more important issue is setting detail. You can have pages and pages of people, places, and things, but if that's the sum of it all then it's just a more focused genre book. The setting needs intriguing combinations of detail, bits that for the most part can be ignored but add a ton of character to the setting just by being known.

For example, the cosmology section of the forgotten realms main book has a detailed section on what happens to your spirit/soul when you die. It goes into the life you led, who you followed, how you died, and then what happens to you(r soul). For the most part this will never be seen by a player. In MMO RPG's this is a big no-no because you don't spend dev cycles on content that 1% of your customers see in 1% of their gaming experience. Now the FR player will see the afterlife if he does planar travel or gets gated or something else that is equally remote, but it's always there for everyone else just to provide campaign flavor/feel/character

This is the part of the detail and character of the campaign that cannot be omitted, or it's simply not as good a setting as can be had elsewhere.

[Old Man]

I agree that detail is the most important factor in any world or campaign setting. But I didn't think I needed to bring it up since Steve Long and his keyboard are so fecund. :)

[Killer Shrike]

Ive always preferred "Prolific"....Fecund sounds too much like feces. :(

[Savinien]

naturaltwenty,

Do you have any of your conversion information viewable to the common man? I'd love to see your Brotherhood of the Wolf and George R. R. Martin conversions.

I'm most interested in the Magic System, of course.

This seems to make or break a FH setting, IMO.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Count me in on that minority. I find the scrolling script, decorated borders and faux-parchment colored pages of a lot of fantasy game books to be distracting and sometimes hard to read. As long as the artwork for characters in the books is sufficiently evocative (not necessarily in color), I can bring in style and flavor myself in the role-playing part of the game. :)

To each his own. I'm not asking for the ful GW treatment, really; I doubt if DOJ could afford that much art and art direction anyway. But the fonts and gradients that are used for Star Hero really really really don't work for fantasy.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Old Man
But the fonts and gradients that are used for Star Hero really really really don't work for fantasy.

I'd have to agree. It doesn't need to be overwhelming....just...Fantasy.

[Ulryk]

I think the most important consideration is how well setting books sell. If they are movers, invest. Sitters? Conserve.

[Bartman]

No, no, no, no. Give me stuff that is readable. Don't give me some weird font, blegh. I would triple my fantasy RPG purchases if the publishers made an effort to make the stuff readable rather than kewl. That is the primary reason I didn't buy Testament. While their body text was OK, every header was in some neo-runic, pseudo-phonecian font. It made my head ache just trying to read it. I want stuff I can use easily use. If the text itself doesn't provide enough flavor on its own, no formating can save it. And if it does no formating is necessary. I didn't need a fancy font with extravagant scrollwork on a faux parchment background to enjoy Lord of the Rings. And if I need the same to enjoy some RPG product, I'll pass on that product.

Simplicity is best.

[Killer Shrike]

On the one hand a little genre concession couldnt hurt, on the other I kind of like the HERO House Style so to speak. Its clean, organized, and consistent.

Plus, I dont go blind trying to read it.

However, Ill admit that a little bit of "flare" appropriate to the genre might be a nice touch.....

[Polaris]

Steve,

Will the upcomming settings have a good map? Many gamers are visual people, and maps are very helpful. Would it be too expensive to have a 'poster map' like the Forgotten Realms book has??

Color printing and such is nice, but not a deal breaker for me. A good color map to hang on the wall would be well worth a few extra dollars.

Polaris

[naturaltwenty]

Most of these are just notes written down on my handy-dandy-notebook. I just purchased FH and I am digesting the content and getting back into the flow of HERO (3.0 and 3.5 taking too much time to do these days).

I will be working on the material though as my FLGS owner is running a Fantasy Hero game on Monday nights and he wants to do it in the Brotherhood of the Wolf world.

Look for stuff at www.naturaltwenty.com/botw

Later,

Natural Twenty



Originally posted by Savinien
naturaltwenty,

Do you have any of your conversion information viewable to the common man? I'd love to see your Brotherhood of the Wolf and George R. R. Martin conversions.

I'm most interested in the Magic System, of course.

This seems to make or break a FH setting, IMO.

[Steve Long]

Will the upcomming settings have a good map?

Yes, they will -- similar to the ones in TE. They will not have color maps, foldout or otherwise; color printing is too expensive.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Bartman
No, no, no, no. Give me stuff that is readable. Don't give me some weird font, blegh. [...] I want stuff I can use easily use.

Again, I'm not a proponent of design to the point of unreadability. That really is counterproductive. But you can have content that is "in character" with appropriate fonts and design elements that is still perfectly legible. You can eat your cake and have it too.


I didn't need a fancy font with extravagant scrollwork on a faux parchment background to enjoy Lord of the Rings.

Even LOTR included a map, elvish and dwarvish scrollwork, and a picture of a door. Furthermore I reckon LOTR includes more pages than Steve will have to work with.


Simplicity is best.

Balance is best. If simplicity were best everything would be downloadable ascii printed in double-spaced Courier.

[Savinien]

naturaltwenty,

While I did read the first Runelords book, I was more interested in Brotherhood of the Wolf conversions at this time... Seriously, your supplied link lead to a RuneLords conversion page, not the BotW conversions!

It would be much appreciated to see the BotW stuff.

Thanks,

Sav

[naturaltwenty]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812570693/qid=1060529960/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/103-4399015-2371825?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Brotherhood of the Wolf is the second in a series of books by David Farland.

The Runelords: The Sum of All Men (Book 1)
The Runelords: The Brotherhood of the Wolf (Book 2)
The Runelords: Wizardborn (Book 3)

The conversion I am working on is for that book series. The only reason that I referenced BotW was because it was the book that I started to stat out PC's for using Fantasy Hero (old edition) and I decided to wait until HERO 5 and the new Fantasy Hero was out.

While I have seen the film, Brotherhood of the Wolf, the world in that movie was changing and the story itself was rather self-contained. The only threads that I could pull out of there was if there was more than one beast or perhaps a secret cult that raised other beasts across the world.

Sorry for the confusion,

Natural Twenty