Possible?

[Blue]

I was going to ask this to Steve, but I thought his head might explode :D

Character A has invisibility.
Character B has detect: invisibility.
Character A also has Invisibility v. the sense "Detect Invisibility"

Does this work? Does Character A remain hidden? Or does the fact that it's another invisibility work against it.

Heheh. This reminds me of those logic question. ("If I drive a car at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they work?")

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd have to say he's invisibe to the Detect. I'd also require a pretty good justification.

If I buy my Desolidification "Affects Desolid", am I immune to attacks that affect desolid as well? :D

[Blue]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson
I'd have to say he's invisibe to the Detect. I'd also require a pretty good justification.

If I buy my Desolidification "Affects Desolid", am I immune to attacks that affect desolid as well? :D

The equivalent would be more like buying desolidification specifcially for countering attacks that affect desolidification, on top of the normal purchase of desolid. Which of course makes little sense.

As a GM I'm not sure I'd allow the invisibility thing. Just thought I'd run it by you all. You think of the weirdest things when reading other people's questions.

[Derek Hiemforth]

What if you buy your Invisibility with Invisible Power Effects? Do people think they can see you, but really they can't? :D

[Blue]

I thought I was the only one who considered this :)

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
What if you buy your Invisibility with Invisible Power Effects? Do people think they can see you, but really they can't? :D

That's one way of doing a "Displacer Beast" type of effect. This is an old-school D&D critter that always appeared to be five feet away from where it actually was.

Also heard once about Running with IPE. He always appears to be standing still, but whenever you blink or look away then look back, he's in a different spot.

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
What if you buy your Invisibility with Invisible Power Effects? Do people think they can see you, but really they can't? :D

I always thought of it as a strange form of Invisiblity where the person seemed visible, but any attempt to remember details about him would only reveal the basics.

"What did he look like?"
"Not really noticable, no distinctive features, nothing unusual."
"Was he bald?"
"You don't seem to remember."
"What color was his hair?"
"Sort of brown, or black, maybe blond. Definately not red, you would have remembered if it was red."
"How tall was he?"
"Average height."

Of course, people with Edetic memory are going to be even more confused.
"You remember him perfectly. If you saw him again, you would instantly recognize him."
"Great, what does he look like?"
"The details seem fuzzy, but you remember them perfectly. Perfectly fuzzy."

[Insaniac99]

this whole thread has me ROFLing!!!

[altamaros]

Originally posted by Derek Hiemforth
What if you buy your Invisibility with Invisible Power Effects? Do people think they can see you, but really they can't? :D

it happens to be a joke but actually it makes me think about the "Gray Men" in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. not truly invisible but the look slips upon them; they have no distinctive features, etc...

[Alibear]

One of the characters in my Supers campaign has Danger Sense. I've decided to design a Ninja Cult with invisibility to Danger Sense, that should cause a few raised eyebrows...;)

[DigitalGolem]

Originally posted by Blue
I was going to ask this to Steve, but I thought his head might explode :D

Character A has invisibility.
Character B has detect: invisibility.
Character A also has Invisibility v. the sense "Detect Invisibility"

Does this work? Does Character A remain hidden? Or does the fact that it's another invisibility work against it.

Heheh. This reminds me of those logic question. ("If I drive a car at the speed of light and turn on the headlights, do they work?")

The way the powers above are defined, I don't know. :confused: I might just obviate the whole thing by declaring that air, being invisible, is opaque to "detect: invisibility", which renders it useless, except in a vacuum. Unless vacuum would also be considered invisible, in which case the power would be truly, completely, useless.

But when I finally get around to running Hero, I'll most likely just insist on having both Detect and Invisibility more defined, in terms of special effects.

[Blue]

Originally posted by Insaniac99
this whole thread has me ROFLing!!!

Then my job is done here!
Onward and upward! [Leaps into the sky, cape rustling in the breeze]

[Killer Shrike]

Dude, thats not a cape, its just a towel. And put some pants on you pervert!


Actually, on the subject of weird IPE's, what about an IPE Teleport, Hide Effects of Powers? You move, but look like you stayed in the same place?

Dunno.......

[OddHat]

Invisibility with IPE:Hide Effects of Power. You think you can see him, but for some reason all of your attacks miss, and you never noticed when he arived or when he left.

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Alibear
One of the characters in my Supers campaign has Danger Sense. I've decided to design a Ninja Cult with invisibility to Danger Sense, that should cause a few raised eyebrows...;)

I have been tempted to create EGO Drain, NND, defense is not having Danger Sense or LS: Does not need to sleep. The effect is linked to the main power, Images to Danger Sense, 0 END, persistent, Activate 8 or less :D

[BNakagawa]

I once got away with darkness with IPE. It sort of worked like putting a polaroid in front of a security camera.

[Vondy]

Anything is possible with Hero, but... just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it (or that the GM won't pull out his handy insdustrial strength cheese grater at the first opportune moment).

I would consider the invisible to detect invisible extremely abusive without 1) a very good explanation for the special effect, and 2) some way it can be defeated.

[Patriot]

Images vs detect invisibility
Imo would be a better way to go

[Black Rose]

Originally posted by D-Man
Anything is possible with Hero, but... just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it (or that the GM won't pull out his handy insdustrial strength cheese grater at the first opportune moment).

I would consider the invisible to detect invisible extremely abusive without 1) a very good explanation for the special effect, and 2) some way it can be defeated.

Depends on the SFX of the Detect Invisible. Is it based on some sort of EM spectral analysis that can detect even the faintest shift by someone warping light to conceal themselves? Is it some means by which the user can pierce the veil of mental clouding that hides the invisible one from being percieved by those nearby? Am I strange for wanting pretty exact SFX for just about everything, in defiance of Silver-Age conventions?

[pinecone]

I say the smellier the power the more specific the FX and psudo science needs to be...I'd be much happier with images vs detect rather than the invis vs detect but either way I don't think I'd like it...it just shouts out "I'm tweakin!"

[Old Man]

N-Ray vision through anything that is not invisible.

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by D-Man
I would consider the invisible to detect invisible extremely abusive without 1) a very good explanation for the special effect, and 2) some way it can be defeated.

Is there some reason that "Detect: Invisibility to Detect Invisibility" would not work? If so, then a simple thing like "Detect Living Being" or "Detect Minds" or the like bought as a targetting sense should do the trick. Unless you are playing by the "Absolute" rules from FH, or the character has spent ALOT of points on it, should not be that hard.

OTOH, someone who has spent 75+ points on Invisibility should not have it routinely overcome by a 15 point detect. I think as mentioned above SFX will win the day.

- Ernie

[Insaniac99]

the way to counter invisibility: as soon as the enemies realise there is something attacking them that they can't see, they use AoE attacks and spread their attacks to cover an area, and create a darkness field around them so they are on equal ground since the hero can't see them either, fill the air with dust or a light smoke or a falling liquid to see the differances that an invisible body would make, or splater the whole area with paint or coat the ground with a fine sand.

want more? ;-)

[memesis]

Invisibility vs. Detect is legal, IMO.

The Detect will, in all likelihood, cost fewer points than the Invisibility. So if someone really wants to layer it on, let him be unseen by everyone and everything. He'll pay more points than the other guy.

Whoever is playing this character needs a rock-solid justification, though. Of course, I would also expect an airtight excuse for "Detect vs. Invisbility" specifically, as opposed to a less um, power-oriented Detect.

Why do people always insist on these outlandish power constructs? Darkness vs. Detect? Why? I've seen "homing missiles" designed as Summoned creatures. Unbelievable. Why not just design the simplest possible power set that's consistent with the rules, and let it stand, if the appropriate player or GM can explain it?

[Old Man]

Originally posted by memesis
Why do people always insist on these outlandish power constructs? Darkness vs. Detect? Why? I've seen "homing missiles" designed as Summoned creatures. Unbelievable. Why not just design the simplest possible power set that's consistent with the rules, and let it stand, if the appropriate player or GM can explain it?

Two words: powergamer. Or is that one word?

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Old Man
Two words: powergamer. Or is that one word?

I think its one, but it inspires three: Atomic Cheese Grater.

I was 99% gamist, 1% narrativist in my wayward youth. Now I'm about 90% narrativist, 9% simulationist, 1% gamist.

Abusive constructs, however, have been known to cause severe GM lapses into the old ways.

I tend to go Lord Vader on players who persist in this kind of unwelcome narishkeit:

"I have been waiting for you powergamer. When we last met you were but the learner and I was the master. I am still the master...."

Or

"Your failure is now complete."

Or

"All too easy."

[Insaniac99]

Originally posted by Old Man
Two words: powergamer. Or is that one word?

I disagree, i like the summoned creature method for homing missiles, they simulate them much better because they can be avoided, they can be tricked and all those fun things.

it isn't powergaming but a preferance towards somehting else because someone thinks it simulates a effect much better than a simple power.