Quick questions and answers thread.

[Alibear]

Quick questions and answers thread. Heres the deal, you, me, whoever asks a question and whoever knows the answer supplies it.

I'll start. Invisibility to IR. I want a Ice/cold character who has invisibility, but only to IR, how much does this cost?

[Derek Hiemforth]

16 points. 20 for Invisibility to the Sight Group (a Targeting Sense Group), with a -1/4 Limitation "Limited Effect," restricting it to only one sense in the Sense Group (IR, in this case). See page 85.

That's the book-legal answer. As a GM, I would personally consider 16 points too much for Invisibility only to IR, and would give more than a -1/4 Limitation.

[Alibear]

Next question, same character.

Winter Arrow, has Cold/Ice powers but has no range with them. She does have an OAF bow and a Martial Art with it. She uses her cold powers to build the arrows which she "fires" with the bow.

What is the best way to build this power/powers?

[misterdeath]

Buy your powers with no range. (especially useful if you can stuff them all into a multipower)

Buy Naked Advantage "Range on Powers", make that OAF Bow.

D

[JmOz]

Actualy if you want to go that way you should buy the powers no range and then buy off the no range with OAF so assuming 60 points of power

20 savings for no range
10 points for OAF

40+10=50 points total

I would however just give the power a -1/4 limitaion of No range without bow... Keep it simpler

[Demonsong]

16 points. 20 for Invisibility to the Sight Group (a Targeting Sense Group), with a -1/4 Limitation "Limited Effect," restricting it to only one sense in the Sense Group (IR, in this case). See page 85. What if the IR is purchased as a Heat Detector or a Snakes Thermo Since? Then it would still pick the character up. And I guess I have the wrong understanding of Invisibility. It was my understanding that Invisibility to Normal Sight Group only included Normal Vision and Night Vision. Any other perceptions are not covered by this even if they are purchased as sight. So you would need to buy Invisibility to IR of 20 points and that would cover all types of IR. Can some one clarify this one way ore another. State references please. Because now I am really confused.

[Derek Hiemforth]

See page 228 under The Sight Sense Group. "It includes Normal Sight, Nightvision, and any Enhanced Senses based primarily on sight (such as most uses of Infrared Perception...)"

[Demonsong]

Hummm...Thanks.

Then how would you cover all aspects of IR perception like Heat Detector or a Snakes Thermo Since?

[Citizen Keen]

Isn't InfraRed basically Heat Detection? That's how I always understood. That's why the Universal Soldier could hide himself in those car trunks full of ice. So, invisibility to IR would hide you from Heat Detection. Don't know what Snakes Thermo Since is.

-cK

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Demonsong
Then how would you cover all aspects of IR perception like Heat Detector or a Snakes Thermo Since? I guess technically you'd have to buy the Invisibility to cover multiple Sense Groups.

Or actually, I guess the better way to do it would be to define a new Sense Group, the "Heat-Sensing Sense Group," and buy Invisibility to that.

[Demonsong]

Isn't InfraRed basically Heat Detection? That's how I always understood. That's why the Universal Soldier could hide himself in those car trunks full of ice. So, invisibility to IR would hide you from Heat Detection. Don't know what Snakes Thermo Since is.

Actually IR and Heat detectors are two different animals. IR can literally see differences in temperature. Heat Detector simply notices a change in temperature.

And you can think of a snakes Thermo Since as a short range heat detector.


I guess technically you'd have to buy the Invisibility to cover multiple Sense Groups.

So basically you could take Invisibility to Heat Since Group 20pts and be covered for every thing. I like that.

[Lord Liaden]

That's sort of the way Steve Long suggests dealing with it:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6621

[Alibear]

Thanks for the replys. Last question on this subject, the name.

I've been using Winter Arrow as my working title as I play with my new Hero Designer toy, but I'm not sure that I like it.

Any other ideas?

[Lord Liaden]

Well, she uses a bow to fire arrows made of ice, so how about "Icefire"?

[Alibear]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
how about "Icefire"?

Nope. Thanks for playing. My quest continues..

[Lupus]

Odd. I'd figured that the purpose behind renaming the power 'infrared perception' was to remove any assumption that it was automatically a part of the sight group. And that, since it could be bought on its own (as a detect) invisibility could be bought specifically against infrared perception. It's a sense which is not normally targetting, and therefore the cost would be 10 points, and would cover all iterations of infrared perception (touch, sight, or naked unusal sense group detect).

Myself, I can't see any balance problems with doing it that way. Any comments?

[JmOz]

I see what you say, but I view it this way: Infared Perception is naturaly part of the unusual sense group, if you buy the 10 point version this is what you will be invisible to, but if someone has said it is part of sight, then they can use it against you, same with hearing, smell (I smell the heat on you), etc... If you buy the 20 point version it works on all of them.

The 10 point version could also be used for Infared Vision or Infared Hearing, or Infared Smell, whatever, but just one

Think of it this way, there is a grid, the collums are senses, the rows are the various powers (Infrared perception, untrasonic perception, etc).

The 10 point allows for one cell, the 20 point allows for one collum or row

[SilverMarble]

I have a thought that goes back to the original question on the invisibility.
If your intention is that the character does not give off a heat signature, you should be able to do it simply by defining the special effects of the character. Remember that not giving off heat is not the same as invisibility. I think that the best picture you can paint of this is presented in the action movie Predator. Remember when Arnold is covered in mud and the IR ability of the attacking predator is hampered trying to find him? If by special effects, your character is cold and does not have a heat signature, he would have what is tanenmount to a Stealth bonus vs. IR Perception. You should build in a specific Stealth Skill (or something similar) defined as only against IR PER. Remember that lack of heat is in and of itself distinctive to one who uses IR as a targeting sense. (e.g.- that big dark spot is something)
I think you are trying to fit something into invisibility as a power that does not belong as a power. If you go with the specialized skill roll, then you would have a skill vs. skill roll to see if you can be seen, much like trying to find out where a sniper is stationed with normal sight. If you want to stay with the invisibility aspect of things, then buy invisibility against the unusual sense as discussed earlier.

Those are just my thoughts on the subject, I hope they might give you a little insight into a different way of attacking the problem.

[Celt]

Originally posted by Alibear
My quest continues..

Depending on the tenor of the game may I suggest...

Winterkill
Pronunciation: 'win-t&r-"kil
Function: verb
Date: circa 1806
transitive senses : to kill (as a plant) by exposure to winter conditions
intransitive senses : to die as a result of exposure to winter conditions
- winterkill noun