Magic System Idea

[Talon]

Had a thought last night on the concept of keeping all character from buying a spell or two.

What if martial training and magic training were in direct opposition, so that training in weapons actually made it harder to use magic? In game mechanics, you'd take all the character's Combat Skill Levels (with normal combat) and apply them as penalties to any Magic Skill Rolls. You could also add in penalties based on other "martial" training if needed.

[Greatwyrm]

Do you allow magic-using characters to buy CSLs to help with stuff like spell attack rolls?

[Killer Shrike]

I personally dont like the idea of having things a character paid for screwing themselves over, particularly for something like an arbitrary gameist imposed balance kind of thing, as there are so many other ways to do that. To me at least, in the HERO System if you bought it the only way it should screw you over is if you _opted_ to take appropriate limitations or disadvantages because you wanted it to have a downside.

Wouldnt it be easier to just make the magic system appropriately expensive, with a big upfront overhead cost to discourage dabblers?

And/or use in-game societal pressures like no one will train an apprentice past a certain age, or it takes years of sequestered study (removing a character that wants to initiate into magic from play), or training in the magic arts is dangerous and frought with peril (complete with a defined system of "things going wrong", like a skill-failure chart) PCs that start with magic already survived this process, or for a really controlled system risk it everytime the learn more magic (but probably have bought PSLs or a skill-like talent to overcome it better)); or make the magic system itself a system of trade offs, perhaps with mandatory Side Effects: Drains BODY, or some other unavoidable downsides that would discourage a combat type from wanting to risk it.

Just my $.02, no offense intended or implied, and YMMV :)

[JohnTaber]

I agree in concept with Killer Shrike.

[You can find details about the magic system I have used for years on my site. Looks at the Orbaal stuff I did for an example.]

My players and I call this the "Mystically Enhanced Fighter Syndrome". What I do is what Shrike suggests. I enforce some simple magic rules that make it difficult for a PC to make a warrior with just a few spells. I do things like set a min amount of real points that must be spent on spells. I also charge 1 END/5 active points. The end result of these subtle changes is that there are not as many PC warrior dudes with one spell... See the material on my site for details.

[Talon]

No offense taken, this was just an idle thought I had last night. Thanks for the comments!

[Citizen Keen]

While I think this would work in some other systems, the whole point of HERO is that is internally balanced. I would instead use a variant on the Rule of X, something saying that Total Points in Martial Arts + CSLs has to be less than one third of Powers, or something like that.

-cK

[Chris Goodwin]

About the best way is to build a required package for all wizards with a fairly high buy in cost; it should be something pretty useful for wizards, but that a warrior type is going to decide against spending 15 points on.

[VictorVonDoom]

why not have a spell as a skill ? Wizards use spells like skills ...

[Stone]

You could always make the ability yo use magic a perquisite (10 - 15 pts) if you trying to prevent the average joe non-magical character from buying 1 or 2 spells. Or...(which I'm sure you already do) make the PC's come up with very good reason why they have the spell or make them actually seek out someone to teach them, which also come with a cost (a mission, item, money, arm, or leg, etc..)

[Seenar]

Frankly, I like the idea as you presented it. It let's players do both if they choose, but makes it expensive.

There is nothing sacred about the rules. Fantasy Hero is full of "off the map" ways to do magic so do what makes sense in your game.

[Seenar]

Frankly, I like the idea as you presented it. It let's players do both if they choose, but makes it expensive.

There is nothing sacred about the rules. Fantasy Hero is full of "off the map" ways to do magic so do what makes sense in your game.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
What if martial training and magic training were in direct opposition, so that training in weapons actually made it harder to use magic?

Well, really, it already does. Every point you spend on weapons skills detracts from the points you can spend on magic. It takes far more dedication to do both well than to do one or the other.

Still, if you want it, the system you describe seems to handle it simply enough. What it effectively means is that someone wanting to be good at both has to increase the cost of the CSL's to include buying up the Magic Skill.

[RadeFox]

I usually like to see magic done up as a MP, and the GM gets to design the spell slots the the wizard buys. having to fork out say 30 pts for a minimum magic MP works quite good at dismissing the one spell warriors.

However, low level pervasive magic can be fun, just remembering the fun I had in RuneQuest. Everyone had magic, some more then others, some divine, some spirit, some had sorcery. IT was wicked fun and cool as hell. So if your group likes the idea of everyone having a few spells or charms, grab out RQ and use a similare world. :)

[RadeFox]

I usually like to see magic done up as a MP, and the GM gets to design the spell slots the the wizard buys. Having to fork out say 30 pts for a minimum magic MP works quite good at dismissing the one spell warriors.

However, low level pervasive magic can be fun, just remembering the fun I had in RuneQuest. Everyone had magic, some more then others, some divine, some spirit, some had sorcery. IT was wicked fun and cool as hell. So if your group likes the idea of everyone having a few spells or charms, grab out RQ and use a similare world. :)